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Old 08-26-2011, 05:43 AM
huan
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this is a great topic, one of the paradoxes for us as believers for sure. is free will in the Bible? I believe that it is.

In Numbers 20, when Moses and Israelites were in the desert and out of water, God commanded Moses to speak to a rock before the assembly of Israelites and said that water would pour out from it. When he didn't quite follow that instruction and struck the rock out of anger, Moses was denied the ability to enter the promise land; he would only see it.

it's pretty clear that Moses was not predestined to screw up, he was given a choice.

in 2 Chronicles 32 when Hezekiah was going to die, he prayed to God to live longer, God granted his wish.

there are numerous examples of free will throughout scripture. without the opportunity to screw up, and screw up permanently what need to we have for redemption through Christ?

I've heard it said like this, no one will be in hell for their sins, they'll be in hell for rejecting the provision God has made for their sins.

man's sovereignty is a gift from God, the best thing we can do with that gift is to give it straight back to the one who gave it to us.
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2011, 06:34 AM
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NateR NateR is offline
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Originally Posted by huan View Post
this is a great topic, one of the paradoxes for us as believers for sure. is free will in the Bible? I believe that it is.

In Numbers 20, when Moses and Israelites were in the desert and out of water, God commanded Moses to speak to a rock before the assembly of Israelites and said that water would pour out from it. When he didn't quite follow that instruction and struck the rock out of anger, Moses was denied the ability to enter the promise land; he would only see it.

it's pretty clear that Moses was not predestined to screw up, he was given a choice.

in 2 Chronicles 32 when Hezekiah was going to die, he prayed to God to live longer, God granted his wish.

there are numerous examples of free will throughout scripture. without the opportunity to screw up, and screw up permanently what need to we have for redemption through Christ?

I've heard it said like this, no one will be in hell for their sins, they'll be in hell for rejecting the provision God has made for their sins.

man's sovereignty is a gift from God, the best thing we can do with that gift is to give it straight back to the one who gave it to us.
Are you saying that GOD didn't know that Moses would strike the rock out of anger until he did it? I don't agree with that at all. GOD knew that it would happen and Moses being "locked out" of the Promised Land because of that sin was preordained from before the beginning of time. The same with Hezekiah's prayer. GOD knew Hezekiah would make that prayer before He even created the universe and He preordained that he would grant that request.

I do believe that we have the ability to choose whether to follow GOD or not, however, many people seem to want to make human free will sovereign and GOD a subject of our decisions.

Do we have the ability to choose GOD of our own free will? Yes.

Does GOD choose who will follow Him? Yes.

Is this a paradox? Yes.
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Old 08-26-2011, 06:50 AM
huan
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Are you saying that GOD didn't know that Moses would strike the rock out of anger until he did it? I don't agree with that at all. GOD knew that it would happen and Moses being "locked out" of the Promised Land because of that sin was preordained from before the beginning of time. The same with Hezekiah's prayer. GOD knew Hezekiah would make that prayer before He even created the universe and He preordained that he would grant that request.

I do believe that we have the ability to choose whether to follow GOD or not, however, many people seem to want to make human free will sovereign and GOD a subject of our decisions.

Do we have the ability to choose GOD of our own free will? Yes.

Does GOD choose who will follow Him? Yes.

Is this a paradox? Yes.
Of course God knew Moses would strike the rock. Part of the convenience of having created and being removed from time... God still gave him the choice.

It's a very slippery slope to argue that God preordained acts of sin. In the same way, I believe that the choice to love God is ours, being able to make that choice is a gift. He cannot and will not force us to do so. It's extremely humbling. Like I said, God in his infinite wisdom clearly knows what is best for us, so the best choice we can make is to place that gift right back in His hands.

I agree with