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  #71  
Old 03-17-2011, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DonnaMaria View Post
It wasn’t the priest per se…….it was the statues and the crucifixes. And the formal attired, and the way the priest spoke…….the chanting ……..they just aren’t used to that. And the mention of purgatory……….they were very confused…….

We go to a Baptist church and things are very, very different during the service.
Rome no longer believes in the doctrine of purgatory.

Many Roman Catholic Churches dont even listen to the Pope...proof right there
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  #72  
Old 03-17-2011, 06:48 PM
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Rome no longer believes in the doctrine of purgatory.

Many Roman Catholic Churches dont even listen to the Pope...proof right there
yeah well purgatory is alive and well in Elizabeth, NJ.
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  #73  
Old 03-17-2011, 07:18 PM
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yeah well purgatory is alive and well in Elizabeth, NJ.
The problem with Rome...is its so large, it cant control its own...I am sure their are a lot of Roman Catholics that ignore Rome, or stick to a version of its dated history...but that alone, I dont feel condems everyone in the denomination....At least when Rome was powerful it could control what its belivers thought...now some believe in purgatory, some dont, some honnor mary...some probably worship her not knowing the difference...some pray with saints...others pray TO Saints...but the doctrines of Rome as they stand now...and largely as they always have stood without political prejudice and taking advantage of their power...has more or less, always been Christian.

Flawed...maybe...but as Christian as any other Denomination. Thats my view...and I am not a Roman Catholic...so I cant be just saying that coz im one of "them"
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  #74  
Old 03-17-2011, 07:36 PM
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The problem with Rome...is its so large, it cant control its own...I am sure their are a lot of Roman Catholics that ignore Rome, or stick to a version of its dated history...but that alone, I dont feel condems everyone in the denomination....At least when Rome was powerful it could control what its belivers thought...now some believe in purgatory, some dont, some honnor mary...some probably worship her not knowing the difference...some pray with saints...others pray TO Saints...but the doctrines of Rome as they stand now...and largely as they always have stood without political prejudice and taking advantage of their power...has more or less, always been Christian.

Flawed...maybe...but as Christian as any other Denomination. Thats my view...and I am not a Roman Catholic...so I cant be just saying that coz im one of "them"
This is one of the biggest problems I have with the Catholic church. The church shouldnt be controlling what people believe.
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  #75  
Old 03-17-2011, 09:07 PM
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did he not sing The Angelus? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7BbncHyw9E
no, the prayer was sung but not like that.

I don't think I have ever heard that version actually.
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  #76  
Old 03-17-2011, 10:58 PM
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This is one of the biggest problems I have with the Catholic church. The church shouldnt be controlling what people believe.
If A denomination fails to enforce its core beliefs...then how can it account for itself?

Dont you see...that the Roman Catholic Church does NOT condone half of what that Roman Catholic Church down your road might be doing?????

So you go pointing your finger at Rome accusing it of Heretical beliefs so bad its warrents expulsion for Christianity...because you saw some backward Roman Catholic Church perform something unsanctioned by Rome in the first place?

What makes me angry is that I think people forget just what they are. You act like everyone should have complete freedom. Complete Freedom is anarchy. Thats not a good thing. Do you see the United States Military saying that each base may have its own Statutes and its own governance???

What do you think the Established Church is?? Dont you understand we are AT WAR. Those Churches are supposed to be Heavenly Bases...and they are NOT on home soil. We dont live in a world Governed Completely by GOD. We live in hostile territory. You cant have dissorganization, and each for his own, when you are fighting against an enemy vastly superior to yourself! You relay on your own thoughts of GOD to save you...well what if they are wrong??

Your ONLY help is GOD, When you come under attack you soon realize why you NEED GOD. Church shouldnt be taken as some form of house social club, where one can kick back and relax.

Churches are the most political insitutions in the world, they are beacons of light, and so they get attacked. If you dont know what your Churches are doing, how can you possibly hope to help yourselves let alone any heathen??

Unification of belief is powerful, I am shocked that someone who comes from America does not understand HOW important authority and, yes, in some case, dictatorial policy is.

Can you imagine if Washington didnt know what California was doing? Can you really say California would even be a United State of America...if it ignored the President and did its own thing???

Without Order you have Chaos. Do you want Chaos in the Church as well as the World? its bad enough that we are in a War with someone else...the last thing we need is to be divided against ourselves...because one thing the Forces of Darkness have, which we could learn alot from, is Strategy, and Unity. They work together, they silently inflitrate, they have a lot of success. What do we do? We ask philosophical questions like...can a Christian really go into the Military? Whilst we are busy debating if killing someone in the line of duty is a breach of the Ten Commandments, Major Blah has just got a promotion, and he's being used by the Forces of Darkness.

Whilst we are busy planning our Land Invasion for Christ by bringing up our Children to say prayers...That New Councillor is putting forward a motion to ban public prayers in school.

You tell me who you think is ahead in this game? The Christianity of this day is all words and no action, the evil of this day is all action with no words. Gotta tell you that if we only got OUR people into positions of power then GOD might have some TRUE influence over society in general. That wont happen when the bloody right hand aint got a clue about the left hand.

Nevermind though...at least you all get Freedom from the oppressive Roman Catholic Church...but on a par with them, how far have you spread the Gospel? Without the Roman Catholic Missionaries...your country would never have heard of Christ in the first place!!

How Ironic...its the Feast of Saint Patrick today...a Roman Catholic Missionary to The Republic of Eire. Tell me...how many of your pastors have their own feast day for being the channel through which GOD conqures entire countries?

Oh thats right...current interpretation of your Consitution works to ALLOW and SAFE GUARD those who believe something entirely untaward! But at least you have freedom from Rome. I think you all have Freedom from a lot of things, and I regret to inform you I dont think thats an altogether healthy state of affairs...I dont think it bodes well for the future of Christianity.

Rome has fallen...your the last Vestege of Christianity. I sure hope you dont drop the ball, because 300 years of decline is whats being matched to 1.5thousand years of growth under Roman Catholicism
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  #77  
Old 03-17-2011, 11:06 PM
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no, the prayer was sung but not like that.

I don't think I have ever heard that version actually.
Well, to the best of my knowledge, the Ave Maria, is basically a text within the Angelus Prayer which has come to be used by itself.

please note...whilst most people know the Ave Maria, and use it to point out Marian Worship...they are not aware that in Rome, every week, the Pope says the Angelus, NOT the Ave Maria...and that the latter makes up only a small proportion...the marian proportion...the rest of the lyrics are about Christ, or litrugy that equates to the Magnificat (or Song of Mary) from the Gospels...when put in THAT context...its suddenly more like Honnour and less like Worship.

but...like I said...the Roman Church doesnt hold dominance over its far reaching empire now...so like the Early Church after the apstoles, but before Rome...its kinda full of all kinds of weired shyte

Like you say Purgatory is alive and well in Elizabeth, New Jersey...whereas I'm pretty sure that it was dying during Vatican Two...in the middle of last century, and finally died under John-Paul (more then Five Years ago)
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  #78  
Old 03-17-2011, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
If A denomination fails to enforce its core beliefs...then how can it account for itself?

Dont you see...that the Roman Catholic Church does NOT condone half of what that Roman Catholic Church down your road might be doing?????

So you go pointing your finger at Rome accusing it of Heretical beliefs so bad its warrents expulsion for Christianity...because you saw some backward Roman Catholic Church perform something unsanctioned by Rome in the first place?

What makes me angry is that I think people forget just what they are. You act like everyone should have complete freedom. Complete Freedom is anarchy. Thats not a good thing. Do you see the United States Military saying that each base may have its own Statutes and its own governance???

What do you think the Established Church is?? Dont you understand we are AT WAR. Those Churches are supposed to be Heavenly Bases...and they are NOT on home soil. We dont live in a world Governed Completely by GOD. We live in hostile territory. You cant have dissorganization, and each for his own, when you are fighting against an enemy vastly superior to yourself! You relay on your own thoughts of GOD to save you...well what if they are wrong??

Your ONLY help is GOD, When you come under attack you soon realize why you NEED GOD. Church shouldnt be taken as some form of house social club, where one can kick back and relax.

Churches are the most political insitutions in the world, they are beacons of light, and so they get attacked. If you dont know what your Churches are doing, how can you possibly hope to help yourselves let alone any heathen??

Unification of belief is powerful, I am shocked that someone who comes from America does not understand HOW important authority and, yes, in some case, dictatorial policy is.

Can you imagine if Washington didnt know what California was doing? Can you really say California would even be a United State of America...if it ignored the President and did its own thing???

Without Order you have Chaos. Do you want Chaos in the Church as well as the World? its bad enough that we are in a War with someone else...the last thing we need is to be divided against ourselves...because one thing the Forces of Darkness have, which we could learn alot from, is Strategy, and Unity. They work together, they silently inflitrate, they have a lot of success. What do we do? We ask philosophical questions like...can a Christian really go into the Military? Whilst we are busy debating if killing someone in the line of duty is a breach of the Ten Commandments, Major Blah has just got a promotion, and he's being used by the Forces of Darkness.

Whilst we are busy planning our Land Invasion for Christ by bringing up our Children to say prayers...That New Councillor is putting forward a motion to ban public prayers in school.

You tell me who you think is ahead in this game? The Christianity of this day is all words and no action, the evil of this day is all action with no words. Gotta tell you that if we only got OUR people into positions of power then GOD might have some TRUE influence over society in general. That wont happen when the bloody right hand aint got a clue about the left hand.

Nevermind though...at least you all get Freedom from the oppressive Roman Catholic Church...but on a par with them, how far have you spread the Gospel? Without the Roman Catholic Missionaries...your country would never have heard of Christ in the first place!!

How Ironic...its the Feast of Saint Patrick today...a Roman Catholic Missionary to The Republic of Eire. Tell me...how many of your pastors have their own feast day for being the channel through which GOD conqures entire countries?

Oh thats right...current interpretation of your Consitution works to ALLOW and SAFE GUARD those who believe something entirely untaward! But at least you have freedom from Rome. I think you all have Freedom from a lot of things, and I regret to inform you I dont think thats an altogether healthy state of affairs...I dont think it bodes well for the future of Christianity.

Rome has fallen...your the last Vestege of Christianity. I sure hope you dont drop the ball, because 300 years of decline is whats being matched to 1.5thousand years of growth under Roman Catholicism
If the church "controls" what people believe, then how are they making any decisions on their own? Salvation is a decision that can only be made my a person for that person.

Thank God for Martin Luther!!!!

I dont like to talk bad about the catholic church because I know alot of good people who are catholic and am friends with some catholic clergy, but to lift up the catholic church for something that they dont desrve credit for is something I cant do.

I'm not saying that Churches should be social clubs and I think you know thats not what I'm saying. BUT, I will clear it up for you. I dont think the church should have the power over its people that the catholic church has had. Yes, it is up to the church to give direction through the teaching of scripture alone. We should be willing to call sin sin no matter what. We should be willing to address false doctrine in a firm manner. We should present the word and God's teachings clearly and people need to believe THAT and that alone, because its the word of God, not because the church says so. that was my point and I think you knew that but if you didnt, now you do.

I wont be posting on this issue anymore becaue I am getting close to arguing and I dont want to do that.

I love yall, and hope this doesnt drive a wedge in our friendships.

Last edited by Rev; 03-18-2011 at 12:22 AM. Reason: PEACE
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  #79  
Old 03-18-2011, 01:00 PM
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If the church "controls" what people believe, then how are they making any decisions on their own? Salvation is a decision that can only be made my a person for that person.

Thank God for Martin Luther!!!!

I dont like to talk bad about the catholic church because I know alot of good people who are catholic and am friends with some catholic clergy, but to lift up the catholic church for something that they dont desrve credit for is something I cant do.

I'm not saying that Churches should be social clubs and I think you know thats not what I'm saying. BUT, I will clear it up for you. I dont think the church should have the power over its people that the catholic church has had. Yes, it is up to the church to give direction through the teaching of scripture alone. We should be willing to call sin sin no matter what. We should be willing to address false doctrine in a firm manner. We should present the word and God's teachings clearly and people need to believe THAT and that alone, because its the word of God, not because the church says so. that was my point and I think you knew that but if you didnt, now you do.

I wont be posting on this issue anymore becaue I am getting close to arguing and I dont want to do that.

I love yall, and hope this doesnt drive a wedge in our friendships.
Oh...Salvation is a personal issue and choice, indeed. But once you are saved...do you not need guidelines to live by? Biblical interpretation is all well and good...but shouldnt you listen also to the church...and shouldnt they be making sure they dont send out mixed messages?

How can they do that without having control...I grant you the Roman Catholic church in its hey day horribly abused that power of control...but it is a fallen institution. All Churches are.

I still like you even if I dissagree with you
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:42 PM
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If the church "controls" what people believe, then how are they making any decisions on their own? Salvation is a decision that can only be made my a person for that person.

Thank God for Martin Luther!!!!

I dont like to talk bad about the catholic church because I know alot of good people who are catholic and am friends with some catholic clergy, but to lift up the catholic church for something that they dont desrve credit for is something I cant do.

I'm not saying that Churches should be social clubs and I think you know thats not what I'm saying. BUT, I will clear it up for you. I dont think the church should have the power over its people that the catholic church has had. Yes, it is up to the church to give direction through the teaching of scripture alone. We should be willing to call sin sin no matter what. We should be willing to address false doctrine in a firm manner. We should present the word and God's teachings clearly and people need to believe THAT and that alone, because its the word of God, not because the church says so. that was my point and I think you knew that but if you didnt, now you do.

I wont be posting on this issue anymore becaue I am getting close to arguing and I dont want to do that.

I love yall, and hope this doesnt drive a wedge in our friendships.
i am assuming for his reformation initiation and not his antisemetic views ..

as someone who was brought up catholic, i can see what you are saying .... i still consider myself catholic, but i can see how it has controlled some people in my family .. i don't agree with everything they do, but hey i am still learning ...
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