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  #21  
Old 03-10-2011, 04:58 PM
BamaGrits84
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A clear answer is no - a church is not blessed if it does not follow scripture. In fact I would go so far as to say some churches are a cult because they clearly negate bibical principals and lead others to misunderstand who Christ is.

I'll address my thoughts on each one you noted.

Elders: Clearly the scriptures you cited do not allow for just anyone to be an elder, or church leader. I do believe there are many great pastor and deacons who have come to know Christ and turned from a path of distruction that are leading churches in a way that is pleasing to God.

Non Christian church members: I have never really been to a church that intentionally takes on unsaved members. Maybe some do, but I do think it is wrong based on the principal that members having voting power at most churches. Letting a non Christians have an impact on the path of a church would be counteractive. How can a person without Christ in them keep the church on a Christ centerd path?

Divided services: Do you mean contemporary and traditional services? If you do I don't think there is anything wrong with having multiple services for the purpose of worship prefrences or space if the pastor is not catering his message to the different groups.

Infant baptisms: I'm not sure what even started this with some churches. I don't know of any place in the bible where this is even mentioned, but it does say baptism is a public sign of salvation which an infant is not capable of uderstanding. Baptism by water should follow salvation and be used for no other reason.

Churches have began to cater to society to keep their memberships up I think. I saw a sign on one about a messgae on tolerance. I almost went just to try to tell as many people as I could that church was getting them closer to hell, not God. Figured with my personality I would find it hard to be loving towards someone leading so many people in the wrong direction and would likely end in the cops having to make me leave.
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  #22  
Old 03-10-2011, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Rev View Post
I dont see infant baptism as being scriptural. I know that the Bible doesnt give the ages of everyone who was baptized, but I feel like if it were an ordinance from God, it would be made pretty clear.

One thing that I try and push really hard and it is VERY lacking in the Baptist church, is the importance if our elders and deacons being qualified as per Titus and not as per popularity. I am interested to hear where Mark is going with this.
I am reading Revelation and read the 7 churches. In the letter to Sardis it talks about telling people to wake up and blotting out his name in the book of life. So I was just wondering.
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  #23  
Old 03-10-2011, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by BamaGrits84 View Post
Divided services: Do you mean contemporary and traditional services? If you do I don't think there is anything wrong with having multiple services for the purpose of worship prefrences or space if the pastor is not catering his message to the different groups.

Churches have began to cater to society to keep their memberships up I think.
We have two services contemporary and traditional. The young at contemporary and the older ar traditional. We switched to one service and my pastor said one morning that we were going to stay this way till we were full then we would do 2 services. But session changed it because people (Older) didnt like it. I actually wish we had a Saturday night service.
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  #24  
Old 03-10-2011, 08:57 PM
billwilliams70
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Is any "believer" blessed if they don't follow scripture? I'd say no.

Later.
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  #25  
Old 03-10-2011, 09:28 PM
BamaGrits84
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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
We have two services contemporary and traditional. The young at contemporary and the older ar traditional. We switched to one service and my pastor said one morning that we were going to stay this way till we were full then we would do 2 services. But session changed it because people (Older) didnt like it. I actually wish we had a Saturday night service.
Older members is actually why my last church went to two services. So many didn't like the live band and louder contemporary music. I really don't get that because who complains about the volume of worship music? I thought the idea with to praise God not please people. But hey at least at most churches the traditional service is the early one so us young folks can sleep in.
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  #26  
Old 03-10-2011, 09:58 PM
billwilliams70
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Originally Posted by BamaGrits84 View Post
Older members is actually why my last church went to two services. So many didn't like the live band and louder contemporary music. I really don't get that because who complains about the volume of worship music? I thought the idea with to praise God not please people. But hey at least at most churches the traditional service is the early one so us young folks can sleep in.
I agree with that. We play loud worship music at our church, we have a mixed congregation as far as age is concerned......but our Pastor loves the loud music.....and uses the "joyful noise" scripture as backup.

Later.
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  #27  
Old 03-10-2011, 10:01 PM
Miss Foxy
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Originally Posted by billwilliams70 View Post
I agree with that. We play loud worship music at our church, we have a mixed congregation as far as age is concerned......but our Pastor loves the loud music.....and uses the "joyful noise" scripture as backup.

Later.
We have a coffee bar and also a few different venues to worship. The music is very uplifting..
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  #28  
Old 03-10-2011, 10:03 PM
billwilliams70
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We have a coffee bar and also a few different venues to worship. The music is very uplifting..
Our church has a coffee shop too. It's called HeBrews.

Later.
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  #29  
Old 03-10-2011, 10:03 PM
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Our church has a coffee shop too. It's called HeBrews.

Later.
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  #30  
Old 03-11-2011, 08:22 PM
Maglorius
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It seems here that we are dealing mostly with secondary issues. When it comes to primary issues(doctrine) that christians should believe ie Triune God, Death of Jesus on the Cross, His resurrection, sin, hell, mans sinful nature, etc should be held with a closed fist and are issues that division will occur when someone or some institution tries to change or oppose these truths. The things that are held with a open hand would be infant baptism/dedications, free will/predestination, preterist/dispensationalist/pre trib/ etc, types of music, speaking in tongues, are all examples of things we can debate on and argue over but should never divide over.

A couple of examples here in Canada of churches no longer being churches of God are the United Church and the Anglican Church. For there twisting of scripture on the true definition of sin in regards to homosexuality. This is a prime example of when someone should leave the church when it no longer holds fast to what is good.
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