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Old 12-30-2010, 11:31 PM
cheachea
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Default Can someone please explain if Zionism is a good thing or not ?

I've been confused for awhile about this. I read in The Word that blessed are those who bless Israel and cursed are those who curse Israel. Then I read Romans and where Paul is talking about the Seed of Abraham and not the Seeds of Abraham. After that I read where he is talking about the faith of Abraham and not just the bloodline of Abraham. Then I start hearing all this negative stuff about Zionism and how it is the synagogue of Satan and that there is a difference between Zionism and Judaism. Also I thought there was prophesies about the Lord bringing back His people back to Land in the last days. So my question is is the current state of Israel set up by The Lord or Satan. I am REALLY CONFUSED about this. Someone please explain this to me.
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Old 01-01-2011, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cheachea View Post
I've been confused for awhile about this. I read in The Word that blessed are those who bless Israel and cursed are those who curse Israel. Then I read Romans and where Paul is talking about the Seed of Abraham and not the Seeds of Abraham. After that I read where he is talking about the faith of Abraham and not just the bloodline of Abraham. Then I start hearing all this negative stuff about Zionism and how it is the synagogue of Satan and that there is a difference between Zionism and Judaism. Also I thought there was prophesies about the Lord bringing back His people back to Land in the last days. So my question is is the current state of Israel set up by The Lord or Satan. I am REALLY CONFUSED about this. Someone please explain this to me.
The Current State of Israel was set up by The United States of America, The United Kingdom of Great Britain, and Supported by The United Nation/Old Europe of the Post-War Era. So not sure that answers your question.


I think that the term is applied to different things. Zion is, I think Originally, a Name, just like "Israel" but I am uncertain as to whether they are the same one. Israel is Jacob is the earthly Jerusalem...I think Zion is supposed to be the Heavenly reflection...Its sometimes refered to as the name of a Mountain, on which stands GODs Temple, and sometimes it seems to be an ulternative name for a City, which largely sounds like Jerusalem....and sometimes it sounds like the name of the whole country, like Israel.

In General Zionism is considered anything pro-Israel, probably also The Christian Right Wing also. I dont think its bad...but I would never use the term because I dont fully understand what it means. I do however believe that we must treat Israel EXACTLY like GOD treats her, so we must pray for her and her peoples, we must defend her and her peoples...but we must also recognise she needs discipline, and she has a habit of being naughty and stupid at times. GOD refers to her as "A rebellious House" because she constantly fails to do what she is told. She has bad habits that she falls back into...and we cant help her see sence if we are completely blinded by her radience.

So I have no problem in picking out her faults, and by saying where I think she acts up...but I recgonise her importance, her need for survival, and our duty to protect her. I also note that GOD has specifically attached his name to that nation, that makes it special and important....there is only so long he will tollerate his name being dragged through the shyte, or being a laughing stock for the heathen...sometimes this means he smacks Israel around until she behaves...other times it means he attacks those who think its fine to try and hurt her

A favourite anthem of mine is "I was glad" because it talks about Jerusalem and how it has been made a Holy place. It is based on Psalm 122 we must not forget that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YstlGy1Ld0

I rejoiced with those who said to me,
“Let us go to the house of the LORD.”
2 Our feet are standing
in your gates, Jerusalem.

3 Jerusalem is built like a city
that is closely compacted together.
4 That is where the tribes go up—
the tribes of the LORD—
to praise the name of the LORD
according to the statute given to Israel.
5 There stand the thrones for judgment,
the thrones of the house of David.

6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem:
“May those who love you be secure.
7 May there be peace within your walls
and security within your citadels.”
8 For the sake of my family and friends,
I will say, “Peace be within you.”
9 For the sake of the house of the LORD our God,
I will seek your prosperity.
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Old 01-01-2011, 11:48 PM
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I've been confused for awhile about this. I read in The Word that blessed are those who bless Israel and cursed are those who curse Israel. Then I read Romans and where Paul is talking about the Seed of Abraham and not the Seeds of Abraham. After that I read where he is talking about the faith of Abraham and not just the bloodline of Abraham. Then I start hearing all this negative stuff about Zionism and how it is the synagogue of Satan and that there is a difference between Zionism and Judaism. Also I thought there was prophesies about the Lord bringing back His people back to Land in the last days. So my question is is the current state of Israel set up by The Lord or Satan. I am REALLY CONFUSED about this. Someone please explain this to me.
GOD set up the nation of Israel as it is right now. He might have used existing governing bodies to do it, but make no mistake that it is GOD's Will that Israel exists.

Most of the "synagogue of Satan" references in the New Testament were references to the Jewish people who rejected Jesus Christ even though they had been brought up their entire lives studying the Bible and awaiting the Messiah (Jesus).

Hebrews 6:4-8
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It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
This is referring to the nation of Israel (the book of Hebrews was written to Messianic Jewish believers), they are the land who received the rain. Those who produced a useful crops are the Israelites who believed in Jesus Christ. Those who produced thorns and thistles are the Israelites who rejected Christ. Both received the rain, but not all produced fruit from that rain.

However, notice how the scripture doesn't say that the worthless land IS cursed. It says that the worthless land is in danger of being cursed, but it's not actually cursed. I believe this is an indication of GOD's promise to always preserve a remnant of the people of Israel for Himself, regardless of how rebellious and unbelieving they are.

Just like anything else, there are different forms of Zionism. However, in it's purest form, it is the belief that the Messiah (Jesus Christ) will come to Earth and establish His Kingdom on Earth. The capitol city of which will be Jerusalem, Israel.

In Genesis 17:7-8 GOD makes this promise to Abraham, this is the very heart of Zionism:
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"I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”
GOD uses the word "everlasting" twice here. Everlasting in Hebrew is the word "olam" which also means eternal and forever. I think when GOD says that something is forever, then it means that it is forever.

So, GOD still has a covenant with Abraham's descendants and always will, Jesus' coming did not change that. And Israel, along with most of the Middle East still belongs to the Israelites. Whether that possession is recognized by the rest of the world as legitimate is irrelevant.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:41 AM
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That was an informative and profound post, Nate. TY.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:18 AM
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how jewish are you nate?

studying some prophecy lately i have realized i don't have the respect for jews that i ought to, they're still God's people
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Old 01-02-2011, 07:07 PM
cheachea
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
GOD set up the nation of Israel as it is right now. He might have used existing governing bodies to do it, but make no mistake that it is GOD's Will that Israel exists.

Most of the "synagogue of Satan" references in the New Testament were references to the Jewish people who rejected Jesus Christ even though they had been brought up their entire lives studying the Bible and awaiting the Messiah (Jesus).

Hebrews 6:4-8


This is referring to the nation of Israel (the book of Hebrews was written to Messianic Jewish believers), they are the land who received the rain. Those who produced a useful crops are the Israelites who believed in Jesus Christ. Those who produced thorns and thistles are the Israelites who rejected Christ. Both received the rain, but not all produced fruit from that rain.

However, notice how the scripture doesn't say that the worthless land IS cursed. It says that the worthless land is in danger of being cursed, but it's not actually cursed. I believe this is an indication of GOD's promise to always preserve a remnant of the people of Israel for Himself, regardless of how rebellious and unbelieving they are.

Just like anything else, there are different forms of Zionism. However, in it's purest form, it is the belief that the Messiah (Jesus Christ) will come to Earth and establish His Kingdom on Earth. The capitol city of which will be Jerusalem, Israel.

In Genesis 17:7-8 GOD makes this promise to Abraham, this is the very heart of Zionism:


GOD uses the word "everlasting" twice here. Everlasting in Hebrew is the word "olam" which also means eternal and forever. I think when GOD says that something is forever, then it means that it is forever.

So, GOD still has a covenant with Abraham's descendants and always will, Jesus' coming did not change that. And Israel, along with most of the Middle East still belongs to the Israelites. Whether that possession is recognized by the rest of the world as legitimate is irrelevant.


Thanks so much for that answer Nate. It can be such a challenge to decipher all the misinformation I hear about the middle east. I keep getting mixed messages every where I turn. All I know is that I want to have the opinion that the Lord Jesus Christ wants me to have. What ever God wants me to think, that's what I want to think.
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