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  #91  
Old 12-24-2010, 01:58 AM
Chuck
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
It's about being able to completely entrust your life to the guy next to you. An intimate bond that's required for men to fight side by side in combat. However, the homosexual mind is more likely to pervert that intimacy into something sexual, thus destroying the bond and making it impossible for the two men to form a cohesive fighting unit.
I think that's a pretty ridiculous statement to me honest. Being a soldier especially one in combat is all about duty. The soldiers need to be able to put aside ANY AND ALL differences to perform their duty. If a soldier can't do that, they shouldn't be in the military.


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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
Homosexuals are much more likely to suffer from depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, and attempt suicide than heterosexuals.
I would imagine it would be the same for any segregated group forced to endure abuse, ridicule and hatred on a regular basis.

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God is the standard by which you decide if something is right or not
He is also the standard that guides us in how we should treat people correct?
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  #92  
Old 12-24-2010, 02:03 AM
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He is also the standard that guides us in how we should treat people correct?
Chuck are you saying that jesus would be for this?
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  #93  
Old 12-24-2010, 02:12 AM
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Chuck are you saying that jesus would be for this?
I don't really know to be honest Mark. I'm not even sure how I feel about it. But I know the overwhelming message of Christ and His Word is that we love one another. That we sacrifice for one another, give to one another etc...

Remember 1 Cor. 13???


If some people don't like homosexuals or have a bias against them so be it. That's their choice... but nothing absolutely NOTHING disgusts and angers me more than seeing people pervert God's word to justify their own bias, bigotry or personal feelings.

I wonder where as a society we would be if Christians spent as much time praying for homosexuals as they do condemning them?
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  #94  
Old 12-24-2010, 02:41 AM
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I think that's a pretty ridiculous statement to me honest. Being a soldier especially one in combat is all about duty. The soldiers need to be able to put aside ANY AND ALL differences to perform their duty. If a soldier can't do that, they shouldn't be in the military.
Spoken like someone who has never served in the military. If this was true, then no one would qualify for military service.

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Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
I would imagine it would be the same for any segregated group forced to endure abuse, ridicule and hatred on a regular basis.
I will repeat it AGAIN, the statistics are the same in countries where homosexuality is openly accepted. So, societal acceptance, or lack thereof, is not a factor.

Homosexuality is an unnatural perversion and those who practice it know this. However, it's the denial of that fact and the constant effort required to convince themselves that it is normal, that is causing the emotional trauma that leads to drug/alcohol abuse, depression and suicide. They are living a lie and deep down they recognize that, so they are at war with their own minds.

In Romans 1:28, the Bible describes the homosexual mind as a "depraved mind." Thus, it's not logical to assume that a practicing homosexual can ever have a truly healthy mental state.
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  #95  
Old 12-24-2010, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
I wonder where as a society we would be if Christians spent as much time praying for homosexuals as they do condemning them?
I don't know, but I sometimes wonder where we as a society would be if Christians actually stood up for truth, no matter how unpopular:

Romans 1:18-32
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The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
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  #96  
Old 12-24-2010, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
I don't know, but I sometimes wonder where we as a society would be if Christians actually stood up for truth, no matter how unpopular:
Nate.. I get where you are coming from.. but all types of religious groups believe that they have the truth.. even those that read the same "manual"

To have Christians, as a whole, stand up for "the truth, no matter how unpopular".. they would have to clean their own house first.

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I will repeat it AGAIN, the statistics are the same in countries where homosexuality is openly accepted. So, societal acceptance, or lack thereof, is not a factor.
Got a source for those stats? I would be interested in seeing that...


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Originally Posted by adamt
you know what, the more i think about this the more i like it. DADT was more of a special right than it was discrimination.
You know I hadn't considered that.. very nice point!
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  #97  
Old 12-24-2010, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
Bassically, you have no idea. Its alright to say "we dont know, tests are inconclusive."

This isnt about why gays are gay...this is about gays in the military.
You are correct on both points; the point of the digression was to address an issue raised by a SpiritWalker rhetorical question.
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  #98  
Old 12-24-2010, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by J.B. View Post
1)Of course you could do that. But that's not being a very good soldier, and something people should consider when they decide to join the military.



2) But again, there is civilian life and military life.

There are certain freedoms that people knowingly give up when they join the military. It's just a fact of life that there is a stigma surrounding homosexuals, especially when you are talking about a large group of young men who aren't gay. The policy is as much aimed at keeping them from asking about it as it is for homosexuals to feel they should be able to come out and openly talk about it. It wasn't designed to make anybody more uncomfortable then they already are, it was designed to avoid other problems that can stem from this because it's not really comfortable for most people to talk about be it straight or gay.

3) I can understand it's not likely to be an easy scenario for somebody who is gay to deal with, but dealing with those stigmas are going to be a reality and a person should know they will have to cope with that not only if they want to be a soldier, but basically in all walks of life.

4) I also realize that it's tough to feel like you let somebody down, or to regret being untruthful. We all go through that in life many times over in multiple ways.



5) I would agree, they should be punished. I would also say that if a soldier was harassing another soldier because of their sexuality, they should be punished too.
1) niether is the inability to follow orders. If someone higher up the tree tells you to share rooms with a gay guy, you share rooms with a gay guy. Its really extremely simple

2) The problem isnt so much talking about it, as having to hide it. I wouldnt reccomend deep discussions, I just think that if someone is exposed that they shouldnt get in trouble for it. that now wont happen.

3) I aggree. But living in fear can do more damage then stigma and rejection...at least thats what I think

4) the point is, that relates directly to this scenario. If someone is frightened they are going to be found out, or if another has preconceived and actually unfounded views on a person...thats not good for soldier where trust and truth matter. Not telling the whole truth is as bad as telling a lie...after all, Lucifer didnt strictly speaking lie in Eden...he simply neglected to tell the whole truth. Had they eaten from the Tree of Life after the Tree of the Knowledge of Goodness and Evil, then they would have become like GOD...the Trinity discuss this and decide this is why Eden must be guarded after the explusion. All Lucifer did was neglect to expound on something...there eyes WERE opened after eating the Apple.

Now if you trust someone with your life, and you discover they have not told the whole truth...would you still trust them?

5) any abuse should be punished, inappropriate behaviour, disrepute, gross missconduct, verbal, physical, and sexual harrasment...that should go without saying. You should not need a charter to tell you that...you must expect that in any job you ever apply and accept. It is right and proper to abide by it.
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  #99  
Old 12-24-2010, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Crisco View Post
I swing both ways on this issue
I Hold great regard for you too Crisco, and wish you would return to us as before.

I wont say "love" coz then I'd have to say (No Homo) and that might be considered by some a double negative

GOD bless you too Crisco
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  #100  
Old 12-24-2010, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Spiritwalker View Post
STRUGGLING TO NOT MAKE COMMNET~~~~~~~
Well I dont know how it was in your country...but about forty years ago in England, that is EXACTLY what they would do with Homosexuals...its why Homosexuals developed complex ways of identifying each other...basically it was considered illegal to engage in homosexual practise, and they would send you to prison, or a mental assylum

The way you were treated was usually electro-therapy. Which meant they would bring the gay in. Strap him to a chair, and zap his brain with electric current, hoping to scramble whatever part made him gay, and re-set him as a hetrosexual.

This may not have been policy in America...but it certainly was policy in England. So that Scenario is not as mean or horrible as it sounds...it happened, and the general consensus was exactly as Nathan states...it was considered a condition, a medical condition almost...one which they tried, and failed to treat.
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