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  #51  
Old 12-23-2010, 06:25 PM
Miss Foxy
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
They shouldnt have to live in fear of being discovered. They shouldnt lie in an environment where trust is important...if they lie about their sexuality, how do you know they wont lie about something else.

So I think that homosexuals should be allowed into the military...and shouldnt need to lie about their orientation IF asked. BUT I dont believe that anyone should do anything inappropriate.

Thats why I've said all along...this is a non issue...if everyone does their jobs, and everyone respects and honours each other, and noone has to lie in an arena where trust is so important...then surely it will be more cohesive...and yes if ANYONE acts inappropriately...Hetro, Homo, Male, Female...Anyone...get rid of them.

These are the rules that most employers work under. It is what I expect when I go to work. I dont tollerate fools in the work place...because I believe we are their to work...we are not paid to mess around...I dont worry though about people finding out im gay...I dont fear that if my boss knew he would sack me...but neither will you find my boss and I speaking about it really...its not the time or the place

But then, dont forget there is other forms of harrasment aswell as sexual...Call me fat in the work place, and you'll be seeing the inside of the industrial compactor before the end of the day

I Kid, I Kid....but I dont tollerate verbal abuse full stop.
LOL!!
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  #52  
Old 12-23-2010, 06:35 PM
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However, being forced to follow orders that violate our values and morals does nothing but destroy troop morale and turns potentially good soldiers into disgruntled, angry soldiers. And when everyone is carrying around a rifle and hundreds of rounds of live ammunition, that's not something you want.
Now THAT I can completely agree with!

If we do not want gays in the military...then that is the rule.. the law... period. But this "wishy washy"... whiner voice..."I don't know... ".. is the crappy attitude that is destroying us.

If we, as a people, don't want gays to serve.. fine... but get behind it or get out of the way.

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The "homosexual lifestyle" is a choice made by someone with a mental disorder. That's all it is.
But is the disorder genetic or learned? Because if it is one... then they should be allowed to serve being an American...if it is the other, that points to to a failing that we all can learn from.

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We don't need to be putting the security of our armed forces and our nation at risk because people are too afraid to tell homosexuals the truth about their mental illness.
Very powerful statement. Would you agree that the same could be said about boy scouts... girl scouts....police departments...SWAT teams..high school sports teams?? public school teachers?? college teachers... very slippery sloope..
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  #53  
Old 12-23-2010, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
They shouldnt have to live in fear of being discovered. They shouldnt lie in an environment where trust is important...if they lie about their sexuality, how do you know they wont lie about something else.

So I think that homosexuals should be allowed into the military...and shouldnt need to lie about their orientation IF asked. BUT I dont believe that anyone should do anything inappropriate.

Thats why I've said all along...this is a non issue...if everyone does their jobs, and everyone respects and honours each other, and noone has to lie in an arena where trust is so important...then surely it will be more cohesive...and yes if ANYONE acts inappropriately...Hetro, Homo, Male, Female...Anyone...get rid of them.

These are the rules that most employers work under. It is what I expect when I go to work. I dont tollerate fools in the work place...because I believe we are their to work...we are not paid to mess around...I dont worry though about people finding out im gay...I dont fear that if my boss knew he would sack me...but neither will you find my boss and I speaking about it really...its not the time or the place
The military is not anything like being employed at a grocery store. You are free to quit working at a regular job like that anytime you want to, but that's not how it works in the military. Homosexuals don't have to lie about anything under DADT. They simply don't have to respond at all, because nobody should be asking them in the first place.

Nobody is condoning inappropriate actions against gays, but the reality is that it's more likely to happen if they are allowed to flaunt their gayness around a large group of young heterosexual men. We can't just expect that "equality" will be achieved by writing it down on a piece of paper. DADT was a good policy that has been repealed solely on the basis of political pandering. Now the gays can hold rallies for a couple weeks and feel like Obama actually did something for them.
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  #54  
Old 12-23-2010, 06:49 PM
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Tyburn, would you like to attend westboro baptist church? The church that is absolutely not a church and not baptist, and goes around protesting and flying nothing but hate signs and rhetoric? Would you please attend and join that church? Just ignore their values and you will be fine.
Real talk...

+1 adamt
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  #55  
Old 12-23-2010, 07:30 PM
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But what led you to believe they were inner city youth? I don't feel someone joining the military is being exploited. I think it's a great opportunity for anyone poor or rich. Of course the lies come with enlistening someone, but truthfully speaking a lot of work is put into enlisting someone..
well... four white guys and four black guys.. using language that 15 year thugs use.. and acting no where near what is commonly considered military pride..

it was a pretty poor representation of the military...
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  #56  
Old 12-23-2010, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
Honour and integrity is not a Morality, it is a code of conduct. Thats not the same. Morality is a set of rules that is defined by someone higher then yourself, honour and integrity is basically nothing short of opinion. What I class as honourable, you might not.

So that gets rid of the major premise of your argument about a psydeo religion.

They are asked to work along side a homosexual...it so isnt that difficult...I put up with working along side Hetrosexuals everyday. I say! how do I cope
relativism at it's best
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  #57  
Old 12-23-2010, 08:12 PM
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But is the disorder genetic or learned? Because if it is one... then they should be allowed to serve being an American...if it is the other, that points to to a failing that we all can learn from.
Both. Not a satisfying answer, but likely the truth.

There are twin study databases that can shed light on the matter. The databases include information on identical twins raised together and raised apart (due to separation in adoption situations). Identical twins are more likely to both be homosexual than regular siblings; however, it is not perfect concordance. In some cases, one identical twin is homosexual and one is heterosexual, suggesting that it is not completely genetic.

There are animal and population-based studies that suggest homosexuality can be caused by environmental exposures. For example, about 50 years ago Calhoun did studies on rats concerning crowding into the behavioral sink. In brief, if a large population of rats is kept in a living space too small for the population size, pathological behaviors will occur in the rats - homosexual behavior, cannibalism, fighting, killing infants, etc.

There were studies of post-war Europe that suggested that mothers who faced starvation and extreme stress from bombing during their pregnancy were more likely to have a homosexual offspring.

In the DSM-I and DSM-II homosexuality was considered a psychological disorder by the American Psychiatric Association. It was dropped in 1973. That decision had as much to do with political correctness as science. In the current political environment, it would be career suicide to study homosexuality, unless you were specifically looking to find a strictly genetic basis.
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  #58  
Old 12-23-2010, 08:17 PM
KENTUCKYREDBONE
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
Why would they even have to ask a soldier if he was homosexual?? I dont understand that! this is like a non issue, because the Government surely shouldnt be ASKING in the first place!! those who are in the closset can stay there, those who are not surely arent any more a danger.

Tell me...when you go to the bank...do you ask the person serving you what sexuality they are???

Why should someone whose gay not do military service? is their any particular thing that a hetrosexual soldier can do...that a gay one cant?? I mean....Really??

I'd love to know why this means anything at all.

...ohh and being "uncomfortable" around gays doesnt count. Your not paid to be comfortable around everyone you work with in any environment.
Don't ask don't tell basiclly said if you was keep it to yourself! As for why? Soilder's are in such close proximity it could be trouble. It's like a striat guy showering with the ladies!
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  #59  
Old 12-23-2010, 08:25 PM
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But is the disorder genetic or learned? Because if it is one... then they should be allowed to serve being an American...if it is the other, that points to to a failing that we all can learn from.
Just because some inherits a genetic trait doesn't mean that it is normal and healthy.

What if someone genetically inherits schizophrenia from his/her parents and suffers from severe delusions right from birth? So then should we say, "Oh well, since this person was born schizophrenic, then it must be normal and not a mental illness in any way. In fact, to treat the symptoms with drugs would be implying that this person is ill, thus violating his/her rights as an American. So if this person decides that they want to serve in the Armed Forces, then we have no right to say no. In fact, if it turns out that their schizophrenia (which is completely normal and healthy because God made them that way) is incompatible with military service, then it must mean that there is something wrong with our military. So, we need to rewrite the rules of our military in order to accommodate this person"? Is that even logical?

Of course, gays will claim that they are not mentally ill and that their behavior is completely normal, but trusting the self-diagnosis of someone with a mental disorder is probably not good medicine.

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Originally Posted by Spiritwalker View Post
Very powerful statement. Would you agree that the same could be said about boy scouts... girl scouts....police departments...SWAT teams..high school sports teams?? public school teachers?? college teachers... very slippery sloope..
We need to stop pandering to the gay community in every aspect of our lives.
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  #60  
Old 12-23-2010, 08:43 PM
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Just because some inherits a genetic trait doesn't mean that it is normal and healthy.
Agreed.


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What if someone genetically inherits schizophrenia from his/her parents and suffers from severe delusions right from birth? So then should we say, "Oh well, since this person was born schizophrenic, then it must be normal and not a mental illness in any way.
But being homosexual isn't destructive...

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In fact, to treat the symptoms with drugs would be implying that this person is ill, thus violating his/her rights as an American. So if this person decides that they want to serve in the Armed Forces, then we have no right to say no. In fact, if it turns out that their schizophrenia (which is completely normal and healthy because God made them that way) is incompatible with military service, then it must mean that there is something wrong with our military. So, we need to rewrite the rules of our military in order to accommodate this person"? Is that even logical?
No it is not. I completely agree with you.

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Of course, gays will claim that they are not mentally ill and that their behavior is completely normal, but trusting the self-diagnosis of someone with a mental disorder is probably not good medicine.
What about the various doctors that say that is isn't a mental disorder? Have any of us ever asked our own doctors about that? I haven't. I have a physical in 2 months.. this could be a good discussion...

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We need to stop pandering to the gay community in every aspect of our lives.
Very well said... but when does tolerance of others stop.. and indulgence begin.
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