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  #11  
Old 11-30-2010, 06:06 PM
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Another difference with Pac fighting Marquez even at 140 would be that at Unfinished Business (Pac/JMM III) Pac fought at 130 and weighed 144 on fight night. Cutting 10% of his weight is a big deal which is one reason he went to 135 and also the reason after fighting Erik Morales that he decided to move up because the weight cutting was making it harder for him to fight at a high level. Had the fight been 135 or 140, Pac would have handled JMM much easier.

Anywhere above 140, JMM is going to get pummeled by Pac.

Pac would kill Mosley too.

Berto would probably be the most interesting fight because Berto would try to bring it, but he would get KOed too. Floyd is the only fight out there, but he has women to beat and legal battles to fight for now.
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Old 11-30-2010, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rockdawg21 View Post
Show me the record book that states Manny did not win.
That's fine and dandy, but it isn't like the Silva vs Sonnen match where Sonnen was winning the fight but ultimately tapped out. A LOT of people think Marquez won the rematch and was robbed in the decision.

Don't start making weight excuses for Manny either, especially with all the weight-draining he's done to opponents and catch-weight title fights he has had. Pac had been fighting at 130 for over 3 years when he fought Marquez in the rematch and he already fought him once at 125 when they went to a draw.

Weight isn't the issue, it's Marquez's style. He has always given Manny problems, and he has shown time and time again that he can't be stopped. Personally, I think Pacquiao WOULD stop him today. Marquez is 36 and even though he is tough as nails, I just think Manny has improved too much would hit Juan too much for him to last 12 rounds, let alone get the win. I could be wrong though, and I would love to see another war between these two.
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2010, 07:20 PM
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That's fine and dandy, but it isn't like the Silva vs Sonnen match where Sonnen was winning the fight but ultimately tapped out. A LOT of people think Marquez won the rematch and was robbed in the decision.

Don't start making weight excuses for Manny either, especially with all the weight-draining he's done to opponents and catch-weight title fights he has had. Pac had been fighting at 130 for over 3 years when he fought Marquez in the rematch and he already fought him once at 125 when they went to a draw.

Weight isn't the issue, it's Marquez's style. He has always given Manny problems, and he has shown time and time again that he can't be stopped. Personally, I think Pacquiao WOULD stop him today. Marquez is 36 and even though he is tough as nails, I just think Manny has improved too much would hit Juan too much for him to last 12 rounds, let alone get the win. I could be wrong though, and I would love to see another war between these two.
I see how it can be viewed either way, but the record books show Pac won, so therefore, Marquez didn't win. Just as any fight, if you want to bitch and whine about the decision, then don't let it go to the judges.

I'm not making excuses for Pac, I'm simply saying that Pac would have been more competitive had he not cut 14 pounds, that's just common sense. And yes, Marquez' style is very good for dealing with Pac, that's for sure. It's a combination of both.

I'd love to see them fight too, plus shut Marquez' mouth and all of the people whining over the decision of their last fight. Marquez allowed it to go to the judges so he let them choose his fate.
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Old 11-30-2010, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rockdawg21 View Post
I see how it can be viewed either way, but the record books show Pac won, so therefore, Marquez didn't win. Just as any fight, if you want to bitch and whine about the decision, then don't let it go to the judges.

I'm not making excuses for Pac, I'm simply saying that Pac would have been more competitive had he not cut 14 pounds, that's just common sense. And yes, Marquez' style is very good for dealing with Pac, that's for sure. It's a combination of both.

I'd love to see them fight too, plus shut Marquez' mouth and all of the people whining over the decision of their last fight. Marquez allowed it to go to the judges so he let them choose his fate.
I don't agree with the Dana Whiteism - "Never leave it in the hands of the judges".

If that's the case, why even have judges at all? This isn't baseball, where we are so overrun with purists who are concerned about the "human element" of reffing and judging. Judges for athletic commissions are paid with TAX DOLLARS to do their job properly, and to accept such horrible judging without calling it to task, or to just say "that's how it goes", is a disservice to the sport.

Obviously it was a close fight in the rematch, and Pac dropped JMM numerous times early on, but most boxing people felt like Marquez won that fight. Robberies at the hands of the judges are easily one of the biggest problems hurting both MMA and Boxing.

I would be inclined to accept Pac's weight cut as an excuse for his performance had he not been making that weight for 3 years. Hell, he KO'd Erik Morales twice and outboxed Barrera at that weight, and had already fought Marquez once before. I understand that the older a guy gets, the harder the cut becomes, but if Pacquiao fans are going to bring that up, then it's only fair to mention Oscar, Cotto, and Margarito's catch-weights when they fought Manny.
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Old 11-30-2010, 08:01 PM
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Yes I'm one of the ones who thinks Marquez did enough to edge out the Victory in both fights.

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Originally Posted by rockdawg21 View Post
Show me the record book that states Manny did not win.
I think the answer you seek is here.
I think Marquez landed the Harder Shots and was more of the aggressor in the fight. It was a very close fight and The knockdowns made it closer but i still think Marquez edged out the decision! That's my Opinion.
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  #16  
Old 11-30-2010, 08:03 PM
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Hey pelioņero I think Javier was just being sarcastic..
Gracias Senorita Foxy eres muy hamable
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  #17  
Old 11-30-2010, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by J.B. View Post
I don't agree with the Dana Whiteism - "Never leave it in the hands of the judges".

If that's the case, why even have judges at all? This isn't baseball, where we are so overrun with purists who are concerned about the "human element" of reffing and judging. Judges for athletic commissions are paid with TAX DOLLARS to do their job properly, and to accept such horrible judging without calling it to task, or to just say "that's how it goes", is a disservice to the sport.

Obviously it was a close fight in the rematch, and Pac dropped JMM numerous times early on, but most boxing people felt like Marquez won that fight. Robberies at the hands of the judges are easily one of the biggest problems hurting both MMA and Boxing.

I would be inclined to accept Pac's weight cut as an excuse for his performance had he not been making that weight for 3 years. Hell, he KO'd Erik Morales twice and outboxed Barrera at that weight, and had already fought Marquez once before. I understand that the older a guy gets, the harder the cut becomes, but if Pacquiao fans are going to bring that up, then it's only fair to mention Oscar, Cotto, and Margarito's catch-weights when they fought Manny.
I love reading when you two fellas debate!! Very entertaining!!
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  #18  
Old 11-30-2010, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rockdawg21 View Post
I see how it can be viewed either way, but the record books show Pac won, so therefore, Marquez didn't win. Just as any fight, if you want to bitch and whine about the decision, then don't let it go to the judges.

I'm not making excuses for Pac, I'm simply saying that Pac would have been more competitive had he not cut 14 pounds, that's just common sense. And yes, Marquez' style is very good for dealing with Pac, that's for sure. It's a combination of both.

I'd love to see them fight too, plus shut Marquez' mouth and all of the people whining over the decision of their last fight. Marquez allowed it to go to the judges so he let them choose his fate.
I think the only one BITCHING and WHINING here is you! I simply said I felt that Marquez beat Pacquiao both times with the rematch being more decisively.
Pacquiao is a great fighter and I respect him but for all I know he is a Champion in 5 different weight classes and a Catch-weight champion in 3 more weight classes. Honestly how can it be a title fight if the champion has to cut weight to meet the challenger LOL Pathetic!

Now I know styles make fights but Marquez and Mayweather are similar in styles with the difference being Floyd is 100 times better, faster and younger than Marquez.

Im not saying Floyd would stop Pacquiao but I am 100% sure Floyd would beat him decisively.
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  #19  
Old 11-30-2010, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JavierDLC View Post
I think the only one BITCHING and WHINING here is you! I simply said I felt that Marquez beat Pacquiao both times with the rematch being more decisively.
Pacquiao is a great fighter and I respect him but for all I know he is a Champion in 5 different weight classes and a Catch-weight champion in 3 more weight classes. Honestly how can it be a title fight if the champion has to cut weight to meet the challenger LOL Pathetic!

Now I know styles make fights but Marquez and Mayweather are similar in styles with the difference being Floyd is 100 times better, faster and younger than Marquez.

Im not saying Floyd would stop Pacquiao but I am 100% sure Floyd would beat him decisively.
Nope, just arguing as usual.

I love Marquez, but he is being a baby about the decision. Would love to see it a 3rd time, but not at 147. It'd be way more exciting at 140.
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