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  #11  
Old 11-02-2010, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
I'm just saying Cain definitely should have made more than Tito and some of the other salaries seemed low to me. I agree with you totally on these fighters' wages especially with Dana and the UFC squeezing every dollar they can from their sponsors, their dolls, etc... I understand it's a business, really I do, but some of the stuff they do that takes money away from the fighters, to me, just comes off as greedy! That's why with businesses, competition is a good thing. The UFC needs some good strong competition.
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  #12  
Old 11-02-2010, 12:42 AM
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I actually wouldn't care what Tito made if the other non-main event guys were paid equitably. Dana is entitled to every cent he can earn; that said, he needs to pay these guys A LOT MORE for putting their (and, by association, their family's) health - and even lives - on the line. That includes the prelim fighters with the least name recognition/UFC fight experience.

Just my 2 cents.



PS to Dana - televise ALL the prelims, we PAY to see them also with our $50!!
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  #13  
Old 11-02-2010, 12:49 AM
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The UFC is a monopoly monster, like Comcast.

I hope that changes, I'm certainly willing to support other organizations that have good fight cards. I got bored with WEC because it was all lightweights (which I like, don't get me wrong, but I'm not going to pay $40 or $50 to see only lightweight fights).

Now the UFC has devoured them so it's all water under the bridge anyway.
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  #14  
Old 11-02-2010, 01:56 AM
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In a perfect world, yes, the guy who wins the Heavyweight Championship would get paid more money than a guy who hasn't been relevant or actually won a fight in 5 years. That's not the case though. Just like in the Fedor thread where I said M-1 needs to remember that they don't have the drawing power of a Brock Lesnar, so their demands for co-promotion are easier to poke holes in, even though Fedor is obviously more accomplished in MMA than Lesnar. Tito is still a viable commodity, especially amongst Latino fans, and no matter what they say, that was definitely a part of the reason that Tito got placed on that card along with Cain.

I've said for a long time that I think MMA will ultimately end up down a very similar path as Boxing, and I still believe that will eventually be the case, but the UFC is definitely poised to put a stranglehold on the industry for a long time with it's current business model. As long as the UFC can uphold the illusion that it's 3 letters which define "the best fighters in the world", fans, and especially the younger ones who are most impressionable, will continue to buy it. Also, as long as they can continue to make that claim, they can continue to exploit that logic when negotiating with fighters.

It's an endless cycle that will only be broken when a larger number of fighters with established names decide to pursue self-promotion. Once guys with big drawing power start to do that, and everybody else sees how much more money there is to be made, the fighters will flock to it. However, at this point, the UFC is still sacred ground to fighters and it's where they all aspire to be. The longer the UFC stays in power, the harder this will be to break, because they are hooking kids on this logic from a young age.
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:28 AM
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In a perfect world, yes, the guy who wins the Heavyweight Championship would get paid more money than a guy who hasn't been relevant or actually won a fight in 5 years. That's not the case though. Just like in the Fedor thread where I said M-1 needs to remember that they don't have the drawing power of a Brock Lesnar, so their demands for co-promotion are easier to poke holes in, even though Fedor is obviously more accomplished in MMA than Lesnar. Tito is still a viable commodity, especially amongst Latino fans, and no matter what they say, that was definitely a part of the reason that Tito got placed on that card along with Cain.

I've said for a long time that I think MMA will ultimately end up down a very similar path as Boxing, and I still believe that will eventually be the case, but the UFC is definitely poised to put a stranglehold on the industry for a long time with it's current business model. As long as the UFC can uphold the illusion that it's 3 letters which define "the best fighters in the world", fans, and especially the younger ones who are most impressionable, will continue to buy it. Also, as long as they can continue to make that claim, they can continue to exploit that logic when negotiating with fighters.

It's an endless cycle that will only be broken when a larger number of fighters with established names decide to pursue self-promotion. Once guys with big drawing power start to do that, and everybody else sees how much more money there is to be made, the fighters will flock to it. However, at this point, the UFC is still sacred ground to fighters and it's where they all aspire to be. The longer the UFC stays in power, the harder this will be to break, because they are hooking kids on this logic from a young age.
Like, flo, the word "monopoly" does come to mind with the UFC--with these other companies folding or being swallowed up (merged) by the UFC, the sponsor thing, products.... And I'm sure they have top notch lawyers to make sure they don't cross any anti-trust laws. Is self-promotion like being a free agent? And don't you think DW and the brothers have already thought of someone(s) trying to do this and will find some way to block that avenue...legally of course.
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  #16  
Old 11-02-2010, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
Like, flo, the word "monopoly" does come to mind with the UFC--with these other companies folding or being swallowed up (merged) by the UFC, the sponsor thing, products.... And I'm sure they have top notch lawyers to make sure they don't cross any anti-trust laws. Is self-promotion like being a free agent? And don't you think DW and the brothers have already thought of someone(s) trying to do this and will find some way to block that avenue...legally of course.
Self-promotion is exactly like being a free agent. It's about thinking of yourself as a brand, and not just an employee to a brand. Think about Pro-Wrestlers who make a name for themselves in WWE. The biggest stars almost always move into other avenues, like movies, or in Brock's case the NFL, then the UFC. Those stars see the bigger picture.

The only way for the UFC to "block" self-promotion is through promoting their own brand as the best and keeping a lock on the majority of the sports best fighters, or at least the fighters who the fans THINK are the best.

Again, looking at Boxing, there is a reason a lot of MMA fighters scratch their heads when they see Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao raking in 30 million dollar paydays. Eventually, the cat will be out of the bag, and I think the biggest fighters will pursue the route that Fedor has, which is essentially the same as any top level Boxer.

However, the UFC is gonna do all they can to see that never happens. They will tell you that the sport needs them to be the governing body, because without them the fighters will just argue over money and fights will never get made. There may be some truth to that, but I would counter that argument by saying that Boxing has survived for MANY years and actually grown in popularity while this model has been the mainstay. Maybe Boxing only gets 1-3 BIG fights every year, but when they happen they are almost always EPIC. The UFC would put a $50 PPV on 365 days a year if people would buy it, no matter how watered down or crappy the fights were. The UFC is a business, but the fighters are the ones who actually get in the ring and EARN that $50.

There are good and bad points in both, but ultimately I tend to lean towards where the money is, and thats why I think MMA will ultimately end up in a similar state as Boxing.
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  #17  
Old 11-02-2010, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by J.B. View Post
Self-promotion is exactly like being a free agent. It's about thinking of yourself as a brand, and not just an employee to a brand. Think about Pro-Wrestlers who make a name for themselves in WWE. The biggest stars almost always move into other avenues, like movies, or in Brock's case the NFL, then the UFC. Those stars see the bigger picture.

The only way for the UFC to "block" self-promotion is through promoting their own brand as the best and keeping a lock on the majority of the sports best fighters, or at least the fighters who the fans THINK are the best.

Again, looking at Boxing, there is a reason a lot of MMA fighters scratch their heads when they see Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao raking in 30 million dollar paydays. Eventually, the cat will be out of the bag, and I think the biggest fighters will pursue the route that Fedor has, which is essentially the same as any top level Boxer.

However, the UFC is gonna do all they can to see that never happens. They will tell you that the sport needs them to be the governing body, because without them the fighters will just argue over money and fights will never get made. There may be some truth to that, but I would counter that argument by saying that Boxing has survived for MANY years and actually grown in popularity while this model has been the mainstay. Maybe Boxing only gets 1-3 BIG fights every year, but when they happen they are almost always EPIC. The UFC would put a $50 PPV on 365 days a year if people would buy it, no matter how watered down or crappy the fights were. The UFC is a business, but the fighters are the ones who actually get in the ring and EARN that $50.

There are good and bad points in both, but ultimately I tend to lean towards where the money is, and thats why I think MMA will ultimately end up in a similar state as Boxing.
But if anyone were to "self-promote" would that person be in the UFC? From what you've said above, I would say, "no", right?
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2010, 03:53 AM
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But if anyone were to "self-promote" would that person be in the UFC? From what you've said above, I would say, "no", right?
They could be, but they wouldn't want to tie themselves up into a restrictive contract that is long term, which is what the UFC wants.

The idea of self promotion is based in no fighter being exclusively tied to one organization or promoter. Obviously, guys who are new need to start somewhere, and smaller promotions are great for that. However, ultimately the promoters and orgs are in the business to make as much money as they can, so they want to be the middle man and they have a laundry list of reasons that they will recite as to why they SHOULD be.

Personally, I think the model that Boxing uses is much better than MMA. It puts more direct pressure on the fighters to be responsible for how their career is handled and it gives them the chance to keep a lot more of the money that THEY earn. How many times have we heard, "Fighter X would have beaten Figher Y, if the UFC hadn't ______"? That's not to say that doesn't ever happen in Boxing to some degree, but it doesn't hold as much weight.
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2010, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by J.B. View Post
In a perfect world, yes, the guy who wins the Heavyweight Championship would get paid more money than a guy who hasn't been relevant or actually won a fight in 5 years. That's not the case though. Just like in the Fedor thread where I said M-1 needs to remember that they don't have the drawing power of a Brock Lesnar, so their demands for co-promotion are easier to poke holes in, even though Fedor is obviously more accomplished in MMA than Lesnar. Tito is still a viable commodity, especially amongst Latino fans, and no matter what they say, that was definitely a part of the reason that Tito got placed on that card along with Cain.

I've said for a long time that I think MMA will ultimately end up down a very similar path as Boxing, and I still believe that will eventually be the case, but the UFC is definitely poised to put a stranglehold on the industry for a long time with it's current business model. As long as the UFC can uphold the illusion that it's 3 letters which define "the best fighters in the world", fans, and especially the younger ones who are most impressionable, will continue to buy it. Also, as long as they can continue to make that claim, they can continue to exploit that logic when negotiating with fighters.

It's an endless cycle that will only be broken when a larger number of fighters with established names decide to pursue self-promotion. Once guys with big drawing power start to do that, and everybody else sees how much more money there is to be made, the fighters will flock to it. However, at this point, the UFC is still sacred ground to fighters and it's where they all aspire to be. The longer the UFC stays in power, the harder this will be to break, because they are hooking kids on this logic from a young age.
Excellent post, JB.
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  #20  
Old 11-02-2010, 07:29 PM
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Those figures look reasonable...maybe Kampmann deserves more...Tito Ortiz and Gabriel Gonzaga deserve slightly less I think.
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