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Old 02-22-2010, 08:00 PM
annamal
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Default Why can't He just say what He means?

John 3:13 "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven - the Son of Man."

But we know that Moses and Elijah were brought up to heaven before this.???
And don't most christians believe people go to heaven when they die? I assume there is a scriptural basis for this belief.

In verse 12 Jesus says "I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak to you of heavenly things?"

It's not that I don't believe, it's that I don't understand. Why does Jesus always speak in riddles? Even his disciples would always ask him to explain what he said. This is so frustrating.
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Old 02-22-2010, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by annamal View Post
John 3:13 "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven - the Son of Man."

But we know that Moses and Elijah were brought up to heaven before this.???
And don't most christians believe people go to heaven when they die? I assume there is a scriptural basis for this belief.

In verse 12 Jesus says "I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak to you of heavenly things?"

It's not that I don't believe, it's that I don't understand. Why does Jesus always speak in riddles? Even his disciples would always ask him to explain what he said. This is so frustrating.
It's simple really. Jesus' primary audience was made up of Jews, because He was first and foremost their Messiah. In order for salvation to be offered to all the world, the Jews NEEDED to reject Jesus and have Him put to death. Many of them did recognize who Jesus was, but if Jesus had spoken clearly, and not in parables, then all of the Jews would have recognized Him, repented of their sins and been forgiven. GOD didn't want that to happen at that point in time, so Jesus deliberately concealed his identity whenever possible.

So, the Jews rejecting Christ was all a part of GOD's divine plan from the very beginning. Part of it was judgement for their unbelief in centuries past, the other part was so that Christ's offer of salvation could be made to all of us, not just the Jews.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:03 AM
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That's horrible. So God deliberately let people choose death unknowingly? Are you joking Nate, or are you serious?
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:55 AM
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That's horrible. So God deliberately let people choose death unknowingly? Are you joking Nate, or are you serious?
It was part of GOD's judgement as punishment for their unfaithfulness and unbelief.

Matthew 13:10-17
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10 The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"

11 He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
" 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.' 16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:07 PM
annamal
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Seems kinda harsh at first, but thinking about it, I guess it's actually surprising Christ saved any of the jews after the countless times they turned away from him in the old testment. Do you think any of the jews today will be saved? Or only if they come to believe in Jesus?

Should we even try to understand what Jesus says? Or is He only referring to the jews as those who hear but will never understand?
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Old 02-23-2010, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annamal View Post
John 3:13 "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven - the Son of Man."

But we know that Moses and Elijah were brought up to heaven before this.???
Not true.

Moses died He wasnt assumpted.

Elijah was assumpted, but he was taken up in his physical body.

Enoch was also assumpted, but again, it was his physical body

Christ was the first to be assumpted in the ressurectional body.

Lazarus was raised from the dead, but put back into his physical body, so he died, in a mortal fashion twice

Some say Mary was Assumpted but there is not proof of that, and again it would have been BEFORE her death so whilst still in the physical body.

Noone got their ressurectional bodies until after Christ chronologically, but in the Spiritual realm, its outside of time, so the power of the cross goes forwards as well as backwards if that makes sense....thats how come Jesus can save before he died...its known in the Testament as "being credited with righteousness"
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:44 AM
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we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written,

“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”—

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