Go Back   Matt-Hughes.com Official Forums > General Discussions > Christianity

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-10-2011, 08:04 PM
Chris F
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Christmas Should protestant Christians Celebrate?

So on my Facebook a women has been reaming me saying real Christians should not celebrate it because it is a pagan ritual infused with RCC harlotry etc etc. She sounded like I used to whenever I got into it with some of you all . Long story short, sure Christmas is by historical nature a pagan/RCC holiday. But since I doubt any of us worship the tree or the Yule log I serious question this lady's sanity. I think she just hates Catholics and thinks here personal views are gospel. She tried to use scripture but I showed her how she was doing so out of context etc etc.

So my question is should we celebrate yes or no and why yo think that?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-10-2011, 08:34 PM
NateR's Avatar
NateR NateR is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,734
Default

If you had asked me this 6-7 years ago, I would have said no; but I think there is far more danger today in Christians turning Christmas into an excuse for materialism and covetousness, rather than getting lured into pagan worship.

I'm sure that if you surveyed Christian children across the US, most of them would believe that Santa Claus is a real person and they would see getting presents as the whole point behind Christmas.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-10-2011, 08:54 PM
Chris F
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR View Post
If you had asked me this 6-7 years ago, I would have said no; but I think there is far more danger today in Christians turning Christmas into an excuse for materialism and covetousness, rather than getting lured into pagan worship.

I'm sure that if you surveyed Christian children across the US, most of them would believe that Santa Claus is a real person and they would see getting presents as the whole point behind Christmas.
no doubt. I think secularism is more destructive than Christ-mass and the druid trees etc etc. I personally do not care for all the hoopla, but my wife and kids do. So I let them have a tree etc etc. The debate was stirred over my profile pic that depicts Santa kneeling by baby Jesus in a manger. I see that as a picture of the fact every knee must bow and every tounge confess Jesus is Lord and nothing more. She seems to think because Santa spell Satan and Jeremiah 10:2-5 talks about cutting a tree down the Christmas is for the devil. Not included to all the times she called the RCC the harlot. Paul actually tells us not to dispute such things but she ignored those verses
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-10-2011, 09:19 PM
NateR's Avatar
NateR NateR is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,734
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris F View Post
no doubt. I think secularism is more destructive than Christ-mass and the druid trees etc etc. I personally do not care for all the hoopla, but my wife and kids do. So I let them have a tree etc etc. The debate was stirred over my profile pic that depicts Santa kneeling by baby Jesus in a manger. I see that as a picture of the fact every knee must bow and every tounge confess Jesus is Lord and nothing more. She seems to think because Santa spell Satan and Jeremiah 10:2-5 talks about cutting a tree down the Christmas is for the devil. Not included to all the times she called the RCC the harlot. Paul actually tells us not to dispute such things but she ignored those verses
Overall, I consider Christmas to be one of the non-essentials of the faith. The idea of the Virgin Birth is still an essential, but exactly when it happened and whether or not people decide to commemorate it, is really a personal matter.

As for Christian parents who encourage their kids to believe in Santa Claus, I have yet to find a Bible verse that supports intentionally deceiving your children for the first 5-10 years of their lives. So I would really have a hard time believing that it is in any way consistent with Biblical parenting.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-10-2011, 11:02 PM
Chris F
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR View Post
Overall, I consider Christmas to be one of the non-essentials of the faith. The idea of the Virgin Birth is still an essential, but exactly when it happened and whether or not people decide to commemorate it, is really a personal matter.

As for Christian parents who encourage their kids to believe in Santa Claus, I have yet to find a Bible verse that supports intentionally deceiving your children for the first 5-10 years of their lives. So I would really have a hard time believing that it is in any way consistent with Biblical parenting.
Yeah I am the same way. we taught our kids the history behind it and that was the extent of it. Why teach the kids not to lie than perpetuate a know lie for years. Tooth fairy Easter bunny, Santa clause

My views have changed since I had kids. I used to not really care much for Christmas. My mom died around that time so really it served more as a heartbreak for me than a joyous time. Even now some 26 years later it still hurts. But now I try to enjoy the time with the kids and we try to turn it into a time to give back
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-10-2011, 11:26 PM
adamt adamt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,511
Default

i am completely disgusted with christmas already, all it is anymore is materialism. It started right after halloween, they virtually skipped over thanksgiving just to start selling crap. \

no where in the Word does it tell us to celebrate the birth.

kinda funny tho, that we are still commanded to remember the 'day of atonement', yom kippur, i believe it is, but do christians fast on the day of atonement?...... no they don't


Christmas really is getting to be a secular holiday. I mean some christians will ream you out for standing for the truth, that is that a fat guy does not give you presents.....

but then again, how do you refuse to partake in the secularism of it without being seen as a fruity cultist, I guess you just have to focus on Christ......
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-23-2011, 05:47 PM
Conrad
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR View Post
If you had asked me this 6-7 years ago, I would have said no; but I think there is far more danger today in Christians turning Christmas into an excuse for materialism and covetousness, rather than getting lured into pagan worship.
...
I hopped on cuz I just remembered I owed a thanks to someone in another thread. This thread showed up. "hrmm...looks cool." It was interesting in the first page, and I intended to read the whole thread. The little page counter at the bottom said "1, 2, Last." "Ok. Page 2 was interesting."

"Wait, there are more. Oh. Wait, still more....what??!?!?" Started hopping ahead... Good night!

Well anyway, good luck getting Dave to ...whatever.

I really thought it was summed up in Nate's early post from page 1 or 2, above. Regardless of the real origins, the modern risk is teaching covetousness.

Here's a nice 30 minute bit on the origins of Christmas as a practice and the changes made over time, called "Unwrapping Chrsitmas": www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqMNrVDOkPg They leave it up to your conscience. I hope it's accurate.

My one saved sister (we're the only two saved in the family) decided to raise her kids without Santa Clause. Probably via her work, she noticed a trend in the youth coming up that there was a blurring between the imaginary/fantasy and reality. Her kids are aware of Santa and understand it as a game that people play for fun. This was part of a larger effort on her part to separate imaginary from real with them. Even before age 6, they understood this well. She did a good job. Her kids are much sharper than other kids I know.

-----

Well, we had to test a DVD projector here at work. It's still set up facing a sheet of paper 8" away. So, this morning, I threw in UCF 63 (more waiting) and we have it silently playing really tiny on the workbench. My co-worker asked why we had UFC playing. Simple, it's Christmas. How do those go together, he asked? Well, Christmas is a time for family, and UFC looks a lot like family interaction.

Well, after updating a DNS server last night, our web filter is not filtering. Until I get that fixed, and FAST, it's open season on naughty websites and on-line gambling in the building. Merry Christmas, everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-13-2011, 11:53 AM
Tyburn's Avatar
Tyburn Tyburn is offline
Angry @ Injustice!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 16,923
Default

So this History is that when Roman Catholics reconqured northern Europe after the Roman Empire Collapsed they wanted to impose a Christian Callendar. The first thing they had a problem with was that they actually didnt know the time of year Christ was born...and they only had a rough idea of when he died based on the Jewish feast which move according to the moon.

The Roman Church and Orthodox church had such a falling out about when to put these festivals that they do not aggree to this day and it was a major reason why they broke communion. The Romans eventually decided that to help the conversion of pagens they should try and design their callendar so as to put a Christian Festival at the same time as a pagen one so they could still feast at the same times of years they were used to. They timed Easter for the Moon to try and also coordinate with the Jewish feast, and it just so happened to cooincide with a pagen feast following the moon also.

They put the Celebration of Christmas over a festival called Yule. Yule was a pagen celebration of the Winter Solstice. its dark, its cold...people need to feast to cheer themselves up.

Following this as Christianity reformed itself the Protestants broke from Rome, but they basically kept the same callendar for liturgical cycles. The Church declined and secularization saw the rise of capitalism and the excuse to spend on comercialism.

The Truth is...pagens should celebrate Yule tide because of their Callendar, the Christians should celebrate the birth of Christ because thats an abstract date chosen for the memorial of the event...and anyone who is NON Christian should not be celebrating Christmas at all.

I actually dont refer to the Feast as Christmas...which is a conglomeration of words meaning The Mass of Christ...as EVERY mass is a Mass of Christ, and all feasts are celebrated the same way.

I refer to it as The Feast of the Incarnation...as I refer to the other as The Feast of The Ressurection. When you celebrate Christs birth is not important...but that you remember to spare it a though is....what you call it is also irrelivent, its meaningless as a word now as it could be pagen, christian, secular whatever...but that you have a date to somehow memorialise the incarnation is important.

For a group who has absolutely no trouble in celebrating Halloween....I am very suprised you care about the fact Easter and Christmas feasts lie at the same time as Pagen feasts...you all had no problem in dressing up and celebrating a pagen blood god called Sam Hein, and ignoring All Saints day...infact I doubt many of you knew the christian name for the festival of that time of year. Yet...shock horror, out come the hands infront of the mouth at the thought of Christmas and Easter being over pagen festivals aswell. As dieties go Yule is humanism, and Aoestra is Fertility...neither of which are quite as blatently demonic as the festival you all celebrated about a month and a half ago.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-13-2011, 01:51 PM
NateR's Avatar
NateR NateR is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,734
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
For a group who has absolutely no trouble in celebrating Halloween....I am very suprised you care about the fact Easter and Christmas feasts lie at the same time as Pagen feasts...you all had no problem in dressing up and celebrating a pagen blood god called Sam Hein, and ignoring All Saints day...infact I doubt many of you knew the christian name for the festival of that time of year. Yet...shock horror, out come the hands infront of the mouth at the thought of Christmas and Easter being over pagen festivals aswell. As dieties go Yule is humanism, and Aoestra is Fertility...neither of which are quite as blatently demonic as the festival you all celebrated about a month and a half ago.
I'm not a big fan of Halloween either. As kids we weren't usually allowed to go trick or treating. I think we went maybe once or twice. Once for sure when we were in second grade, but that was only because our neighbor had gone to the trouble of buying costumes for my brother and I, so we could go trick or treating with her son, and my dad didn't want to insult her by refusing. Every year after that, however, we just handed out candy at the front door. I think that was actually more fun because we got to see all the different costumes. I believe it was a good exercise for us as kids, I remember getting so excited about going to the store to buy candy that we were ultimately going to just give away. It helped me learn the benefits of generosity.

Anyways, I agree that of the three major pagan holidays (Christmas, Easter and Halloween) Halloween is definitely the worst. I don't really celebrate Halloween, I don't see how it's beneficial to my Christian walk in any way.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-13-2011, 04:03 PM
Miss Foxy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR View Post
I'm not a big fan of Halloween either. As kids we weren't usually allowed to go trick or treating. I think we went maybe once or twice. Once for sure when we were in second grade, but that was only because our neighbor had gone to the trouble of buying costumes for my brother and I, so we could go trick or treating with her son, and my dad didn't want to insult her by refusing. Every year after that, however, we just handed out candy at the front door. I think that was actually more fun because we got to see all the different costumes. I believe it was a good exercise for us as kids, I remember getting so excited about going to the store to buy candy that we were ultimately going to just give away. It helped me learn the benefits of generosity.

Anyways, I agree that of the three major pagan holidays (Christmas, Easter and Halloween) Halloween is definitely the worst. I don't really celebrate Halloween, I don't see how it's beneficial to my Christian walk in any way.
That was nice of your dad to let you and your brother go trick or treating to not insult the neighbor...What a good life lesson to be generous and to actually enjoy it. I wish more people felt like you do...
Nate I must confess all 3 holidays you mentioned are my faves!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.