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Old 03-09-2011, 04:07 PM
BamaGrits84
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Default Confess AND Believe

I don't know why this has been on my heart so much lately, but I am starting to pondered if a lot of people who say they are Christians actually understands what that means. I hear so many people say the believe in God and accepting Jesus as their Savior is the only way to heaven, but I can't help but wonder if they actually believe in Jesus with their heart. I think if you have Jesus in your heart you suffer from conviction when you sin. You detest sin, you suffer remorse when you sin, and you desire deeply to remove it from your life. Do you think anyone who truely has Jesus in them could be any other way? I hear so many people say "I know it is wrong, but..." The "but" kills me if it is not followed by how they are trying to removed the sin. I know none of us are perfect, but I think it is the desire to be pleasing to the Lord that pulls at my heart so much. It just makes me wonder when I see someone living in a way that displays their lack conviction for their sin that makes me wonder the content of their hearts. I guess I wonder if people falsely believe they are saved because their actions do not reflect Jesus in their hearts.
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:21 PM
Miss Foxy
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Not to sound mean, but why worry about other people if you can't feel or see what their hearts feel or believe? You should be worried about your own faith and ministry instead of assuming or judging what you think others are capable of feeling or believing. The more time we try to figure out other people the more time we are taking from our lives. Some things are just unknown.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:03 PM
BamaGrits84
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Originally Posted by Miss Foxy View Post
Not to sound mean, but why worry about other people if you can't feel or see what their hearts feel or believe? You should be worried about your own faith and ministry instead of assuming or judging what you think others are capable of feeling or believing. The more time we try to figure out other people the more time we are taking from our lives. Some things are just unknown.
Matthew 28 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Romans 10 "for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Mark 1 "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."


Why worry? If my biblical understanding leads me to be concerned that some of my friends may misunderstand salvation and I say nothing then what love is there in that? Have I been faithful in following the words of Christ if I fear someone does not understand Him and I ignore it so it is of no worry to me? Failing to be "worried" about the salvation of others is a direct contradiction to the instructions Chirst gives up. I believe you misunderstand what judgement is.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:29 PM
Miss Foxy
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Originally Posted by BamaGrits84 View Post
Matthew 28 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Romans 10 "for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Mark 1 "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."


Why worry? If my biblical understanding leads me to be concerned that some of my friends may misunderstand salvation and I say nothing then what love is there in that? Have I been faithful in following the words of Christ if I fear someone does not understand Him and I ignore it so it is of no worry to me? Failing to be "worried" about the salvation of others is a direct contradiction to the instructions Chirst gives up. I believe you misunderstand what judgement is.
You didnt say it was your friends..That would change my thoughts then. Your post was generally speaking so it could have been co-workers, neighbors, or people on this site.. If that's what you meant that's within your own testimony..Teaching or helping teach anyone is great. Doubting what they feel or seem to feel is different thats where the judgement part comes in play. You posted and asked so I am stating it if its not what you want.. sorry.
1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.

Last edited by Miss Foxy; 03-09-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:55 PM
BamaGrits84
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Originally Posted by Miss Foxy View Post
You didnt say it was your friends..That would change my thoughts then. Your post was generally speaking so it could have been co-workers, neighbors, or people on this site.. If that's what you meant that's within your own testimony..Teaching or helping teach anyone is great. Doubting what they feel or seem to feel is different thats where the judgement part comes in play. You posted and asked so I am stating it if its not what you want.. sorry.
1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
Well I don't mean ONLY friends, but anyone who you see in action well enough to know if they seem to think mere words save them. And I think the judge in this verse means to decide who is worthy of Heaven. That's nto what I'm saying. I'm saying by actions our hearts are shown. If a person thinks words alone save them, or misunderstand what believing with your heart means I think Christians should not turn from having a conversation to ensure salvation is understood.

If a coworker comes in obviously sick and the next day they come back in the same condition and say "I'm better now" do you believe them? Probably not because there is no indication a change in their condition has occured. You would likely say "have you seen a doctor?" or "did you get some medicine?"
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:57 PM
Miss Foxy
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Originally Posted by BamaGrits84 View Post
Well I don't mean ONLY friends, but anyone who you see in action well enough to know if they seem to think mere words save them. And I think the judge in this verse means to decide who is worthy of Heaven. That's nto what I'm saying. I'm saying by actions our hearts are shown. If a person thinks words alone save them, or misunderstand what believing with your heart means I think Christians should not turn from having a conversation to ensure salvation is understood.

If a coworker comes in obviously sick and the next day they come back in the same condition and say "I'm better now" do you believe them? Probably not because there is no indication a change in their condition has occured. You would likely say "have you seen a doctor?" or "did you get some medicine?"
I don't care that much to believe or not believe. I would say, "glad your back take care of yourself." That's just me. I am far too busy to worry what the next person does. I see your point and to each his/her own.. We all march to a different beat..
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:20 PM
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NateR NateR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaGrits84 View Post
I don't know why this has been on my heart so much lately, but I am starting to pondered if a lot of people who say they are Christians actually understands what that means. I hear so many people say the believe in God and accepting Jesus as their Savior is the only way to heaven, but I can't help but wonder if they actually believe in Jesus with their heart. I think if you have Jesus in your heart you suffer from conviction when you sin. You detest sin, you suffer remorse when you sin, and you desire deeply to remove it from your life. Do you think anyone who truely has Jesus in them could be any other way? I hear so many people say "I know it is wrong, but..." The "but" kills me if it is not followed by how they are trying to removed the sin. I know none of us are perfect, but I think it is the desire to be pleasing to the Lord that pulls at my heart so much. It just makes me wonder when I see someone living in a way that displays their lack conviction for their sin that makes me wonder the content of their hearts. I guess I wonder if people falsely believe they are saved because their actions do not reflect Jesus in their hearts.
Well, you are missing a key third step. Salvation requires us to confess AND believe AND submit.

We have to submit ourselves to GOD's Will and give up our own free will or else our conversion is false. As Christians we are no longer free (in the world's understanding of freedom), we are GOD's property - slaves of GOD who have been purchased with the blood of Christ. Thus, as slaves, our lives become about doing nothing but the will of our Master.
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:49 PM
BamaGrits84
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Well, you are missing a key third step. Salvation requires us to confess AND believe AND submit.

We have to submit ourselves to GOD's Will and give up our own free will or else our conversion is false. As Christians we are no longer free (in the world's understanding of freedom), we are GOD's property - slaves of GOD who have been purchased with the blood of Christ. Thus, as slaves, our lives become about doing nothing but the will of our Master.
Well the submit part is what I put with conviction and repentance. Thanks for making that point clear!

We are all flawed. It is when I see people saying these flaws are just who they are that concerns me. If you have the Holy Spirit in you that would cause you to not accept sin in your life, and you would desire to remove it.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:04 PM
CAVEMAN
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If someone really belongs to the LORD and is living in sin, GOD will deal with them. "Take them to the woodshed", so to speak.

Proverbs 3: 11 & 12

11My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:

12For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Dr Adrian Rogers preached a great message about this very subject.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:09 PM
Chuck
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Originally Posted by BamaGrits84 View Post
I don't know why this has been on my heart so much lately, but I am starting to pondered if a lot of people who say they are Christians actually understands what that means. I hear so many people say the believe in God and accepting Jesus as their Savior is the only way to heaven, but I can't help but wonder if they actually believe in Jesus with their heart. I think if you have Jesus in your heart you suffer from conviction when you sin. You detest sin, you suffer remorse when you sin, and you desire deeply to remove it from your life. Do you think anyone who truely has Jesus in them could be any other way? I hear so many people say "I know it is wrong, but..." The "but" kills me if it is not followed by how they are trying to removed the sin. I know none of us are perfect, but I think it is the desire to be pleasing to the Lord that pulls at my heart so much. It just makes me wonder when I see someone living in a way that displays their lack conviction for their sin that makes me wonder the content of their hearts. I guess I wonder if people falsely believe they are saved because their actions do not reflect Jesus in their hearts.
First of I'm glad that you feel this way. I think the burden and conviction you feel is evidence of your own maturity in Christ and desire to draw closer to Him. I think what you're speaking of is "Cultural" Christianity. From what I've seen so far living in FL it's pretty prevalent in the South. Lot's of people claim to be Christians because they go to church on Sunday, own a Bible or think they are "good people". None of this makes them a Christian and none of it will ensure them eternal life.

I can't tell you how many times I've been disappointed in people who call themselves Christians then behave in a way that completely contradicts scripture. Unfortunately I also couldn't begin to tell you how often I've been that person. Therein lies the problem.

Romans 3:23 says "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"
This verse not only points out the need for Salvation of all mankind but it unfortunately illustrates our continued battle with sin even once we are saved. I think what's difficult though is seeing Christians who don't seem to be "battling" their sin at all.

Consider the words of Paul in Romans 7

Quote:
Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Rom 7:16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
Rom 7:17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
Rom 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. [fn] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
Rom 7:19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
His frustration is evident.. he's at war with his sinful nature and clearly frustrated by it. I think that is what separates those that call them selves "Christians" from those who are truly pursing a passionate relationship with Jesus Christ. We hate our sin.. we're frustrated (not defeated) with our continued struggle with it. We want to draw nearer to Him more than we want to submit to our own flesh.

I'm a devoted and passionate Pittsburgh Steelers fan. This year, like every year we are in the Super Bowl "fans" of the Steelers come out of the woodwork. Me??? I've always been a fan. Win or lose. And I always will be. I didn't enjoy this years Super Bowl (not just because we lost) because I was surrouned by casual fans of the Steelers. Fans who couldn't tell you the last time we were in the Super Bowl and had no idea who the Rooney's were. It drove me nuts. I love the Steelers. I truly do, and I want to surround myself not with casual fans but fans that share my devotion, passion and pride. Now follow me here.........................

It's the same way with my faith. I don't want to surround myself with casual Christians. I don't routinely break bread with members of the C&E club. I want to be surrounded by believers who share my same passion and pursuit of an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ. I pray for my fellow believers and help and encourage them when able but my inner circle is filled with people who I share that common bond with.

For your own spiritual growth I encourage you to do the same. When the Holy Spirit puts a burden on your heart for believers who don't share your conviction or passion for Christ use that as an opportunity to pray for them. But surround yourself with like minded believers. Push each other and encourage each other as you all grow deeper in your relationship with the Lord.
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