Go Back   Matt-Hughes.com Official Forums > MMA Related > UFC

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-26-2009, 03:07 PM
TDPARKASH
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default GSP's team responds with proposal to NSAC

Georges St. Pierre’s team is treating allegations of improprieties as seriously as it takes its training duties.

The UFC welterweight champion’s training staff filed a thorough 17-page written response and video on Wednesday to a letter filed by B.J. Penn’s attorney on Feb. 3 with the Nevada State Athletic Commission.

Penn’s letter, which could be deemed a step shy of a formal complaint, requested that the regulatory body investigate accusations that St. Pierre’s two cornermen, Phil Nurse and Greg Jackson, had improperly applied Vaseline to the fighter’s shoulders and back after the one-minute break between the first and second rounds.

Cornerman are allowed to spread Vaseline on a fighter’s facial area surrounding the eyes between rounds under commission observation. St. Pierre, Jackson, and Nurse have publicly denied the allegations, stating that the hand placement had been part of a breathing technique originated by holistic therapist Dr. Steven Friend. Friend has worked with

St. Pierre wore down, then brutalized the grounded UFC lightweight champion over four rounds before Penn’s corner signaled to an attending physician that their fighter could not continue into the final round. St. Pierre was also victorious against Penn via a close split decision in their first bout at UFC 58 in March 2006.

However, the popular Hawaiian’s team cried foul play after they learned that NSAC officials had observed the French Canadian’s two cornermen applying the lubricant to the fighter’s shoulders and back. Penn’s reps claim the action gave St. Pierre an unfair advantage against Penn, the first non-Brazilian to win the black belt division of the World Jiu-Jitsu Championships.

Last week, Penn’s group distributed a video that showed the Hawaiian’s legs slide down St. Pierre’s back when Penn tried to establish a high guard.

In their response, St. Pierre’s corner fired back with their recollection of the events surrounding the night in question, which included signed affidavits from Nurse, Jackson, Friend, and the fighter’s grappling instructor John Danaher.

A joint opening letter signed by Jackson and Nurse refuted the claim that there had been a pre-conceived intention to apply the Vaseline to create an unfair advantage for St. Pierre, as Nurse had been given the responsibility only a few minutes before the team entered cage. The letter also stated that “at no time was more than a small amount of Vaseline being used between the first and second rounds,” so it couldn’t have effected the outcome of the bout.

“If any Vaseline was left on [Nurse’s] hands… it could have only been a miniscule amount and clearly within the limitations of [statute] NAC 467.598,” read the document.

Of particular interest was Danaher’s affidavit. The well-known Brazilian jiu-jitsu coach tackled the allegations from numerous angles.

Danaher, a highly sought after instructor at Renzo Gracie’s famed academy in New York City, argued that St. Pierre stood to lose just as much positional control from the alleged lubricant application as Penn did.

“In the course of the match Mr. St. Pierre scored with numerous sophisticated grappling techniques, takedowns, pins, guard passes etc. Lubricant doesn’t discriminate,” wrote Danaher. “If lubricant made Penn’s grappling ineffective, it should have also made St. Pierre’s grappling technique ineffective.”

Danaher explicitly described St. Pierre’s team assessment of Penn’s ground technique and their game plan to combat it, and noted that Penn has never won an MMA contest from his own guard position, but from top and back control.

Danaher also stated his belief that a lubricant’s spreading is unavoidable in any fight.

“Once Vaseline is applied to the face, it’s only a matter of time before it ‘migrates’ to every other part of the body,” he wrote.

Complimenting the written documents, a two-minute video demonstrated Friend’s breathing technique used on St. Pierre at UFC 83 in April 2008, at UFC 87 in August 2008, and in B-roll footage captured during St. Pierre’s warm-up in his locker room at UFC 94, as well as its application on Sean Sherk during his fight with Penn at UFC 84 in May 2008.

NSAC Executive Director Keith Kizer, who began his own review of events a few days following the Jan. 31 event, will present both fighters’ submissions to commission members at a future meeting for possible action.

And those who think the saga of “Grease Gate” is nearing its slippery conclusion should be prepared for a few more twists and turns.

J.D. Penn, the fighter’s older brother and manager, told Sherdog.com on Monday that a formal complaint is currently being drafted and will be submitted to the NSAC shortly
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-26-2009, 03:12 PM
atomdanger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

“In the course of the match Mr. St. Pierre scored with numerous sophisticated grappling techniques, takedowns, pins, guard passes etc. Lubricant doesn’t discriminate,” wrote Danaher. “If lubricant made Penn’s grappling ineffective, it should have also made St. Pierre’s grappling technique ineffective.”

I disagree.
If it was on his back / shoulders.
There was clearly video of Penn not being able to keep his guard high on GSP's back where the vasoline was applied. This making his flexibility (a huge weapon of his) ineffective.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-26-2009, 03:23 PM
Spiritwalker's Avatar
Spiritwalker Spiritwalker is offline
Matt-4; GJJ Black Belts-0
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gastonia NC
Posts: 4,339
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomdanger
“In the course of the match Mr. St. Pierre scored with numerous sophisticated grappling techniques, takedowns, pins, guard passes etc. Lubricant doesn’t discriminate,” wrote Danaher. “If lubricant made Penn’s grappling ineffective, it should have also made St. Pierre’s grappling technique ineffective.”

I disagree.
If it was on his back / shoulders.
There was clearly video of Penn not being able to keep his guard high on GSP's back where the vasoline was applied. This making his flexibility (a huge weapon of his) ineffective.

GSP being stonger and having a good posture at the time.. and sweat.. would have nothing to do with it? And I see where the shoulders could be an issue, but the video I saw had baby jay in the upper ribs area.
__________________
It is because you chose to get on the mat that makes you the winner. Think about how many people are not on that mat right now. - Luis Sucuri Togno
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-26-2009, 03:30 PM
Crisco
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

His attempt at rubber guard slid right down the back. Could vaseline have been a factor? Sure but no more then sweat and GSP's bear strength and posturing at the time.


Rubberguard is like any other move it is not 100% and BJ was basically wobbled and gassed and completely overwhelmed by GSP's control of him.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-26-2009, 03:46 PM
TDPARKASH
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This is the key statement in the whole debate.........

Pre-conceived notion! As this thing drags out in the coming months, there has to be some evidence that supports that there was a pre-conceived notion. Otherwise, it will be classified as an error which may or may not have been "excessive" use of lubricant as per the NSAC policy. BJ has to go through old tapes and show evidence, video of this happening in the past.......or some sort of proof that this was their strategy.


Without pulling this together, the case is dead. He can use other witnesses, maybe even Matt Hughes to show precedence but I think he needs video footage of those fights, specifically between rounds.



A joint opening letter signed by Jackson and Nurse refuted the claim that there had been a pre-conceived intention to apply the Vaseline to create an unfair advantage for St. Pierre, as Nurse had been given the responsibility only a few minutes before the team entered cage. The letter also stated that “at no time was more than a small amount of Vaseline being used between the first and second rounds,” so it couldn’t have effected the outcome of the bout.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisco
His attempt at rubber guard slid right down the back. Could vaseline have been a factor? Sure but no more then sweat and GSP's bear strength and posturing at the time.


Rubberguard is like any other move it is not 100% and BJ was basically wobbled and gassed and completely overwhelmed by GSP's control of him.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-26-2009, 03:58 PM
rockdawg21's Avatar
rockdawg21 rockdawg21 is offline
I'm kind of a big deal
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 5,584
Default

Baby Jay just needs to quit being a baby.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-26-2009, 04:33 PM
GroundNPound
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisco
His attempt at rubber guard slid right down the back. Could vaseline have been a factor? Sure but no more then sweat and GSP's bear strength and posturing at the time.


Rubberguard is like any other move it is not 100% and BJ was basically wobbled and gassed and completely overwhelmed by GSP's control of him.

I agree. BJ never talks about how his gas tank his empty after the 1st round either. It's just about the grease. There are several videos also showing how GSP shrugs his shoulders and attempts to go "vertical" to defeat the high guard. That is also why BJ's legs slide down.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-26-2009, 05:06 PM
logrus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Doesn't matter, it was illegally applied and against the rules. Video shows the transfer of hands from the face > shoulders > back.
Same thing for fighters who are caught with illegal substances in there system, why should they see 6 months to a year ban when they didn't even last 10 seconds in the fight.

Your argument is that the grease didn't have much or any bearing on the fight. Neither does the guy pissing pos then seeing lights out 10 seconds later.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-26-2009, 05:05 PM
atomdanger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritwalker
GSP being stonger and having a good posture at the time.. and sweat.. would have nothing to do with it? And I see where the shoulders could be an issue, but the video I saw had baby jay in the upper ribs area.

Bj has been able to do it with bigger / stronger and sweaty guys before...
I am sure it has an effect, but come on, his legs were slipping off like crazy.

I can't find the link in the forums, but somebody posted a thread with a link to a GSP / greased blog website, with a ton of GIF's of Penn trying to get into the rubber guard and he just could not, his flexibility might be his biggest weapon.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-26-2009, 05:08 PM
atomdanger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE it when people keep saying it didn't effect the outcome of the fight.

IT DOESN'T MATTER, its still cheating!!!

We might as well not take points for illegal blows, or for fence grabbing, etc..
Because every winner could just claim that they would have won anyway,
so what does it matter if it doesn't change the outcome of the fight???

Its a stupid argument to make the Vaseline thing sound not so bad
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.