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Old 02-24-2013, 11:10 AM
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Default The UFC have a big name to cut from last night...

So now lets stand back and watch as the UFC tries to justify keeping Josh Koscheck on the books. Having lost three of his past five fights....two losses in a row (which we know they have used to get rid of others)

This is their test. If they fail to dismiss Josh Koscheck, then it goes to show, they arent clearing the roster for the elite...but simply saving their favourites at the expense of true hard working fighters....does anyone dissagree

We all know what would have befallen Robbie Lawler had the result been the other way round, dont we.

I cant wait for the announcement and uproar this is going to cause when they announce a cut list which penalizes...I dont know, Anton Kuivanen, Ivan Menjivar....and fails to mention Josh Koscheck.

It will be point proven.

Now if on the other hand, the UFC actually do have the balls to dispose of Koscheck...then we can be assured that noone, truely, noone is safe...(Except Dan Hardy, Leonard Garcia, and probably Mac Danzig....as those names have pretty much been told to journalists as a safe list despite their records lol)
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:02 PM
adamt adamt is offline
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it is still about who sells tickets, losses aren't everything,

an exciting loss is better than a fitch win, i am no koscheck fan, but i like seeing him get beat, and i do actually expect him to put up a decent fight most of the time, the ufc would be stupid to let him go and let someone else pick him up, kos will fight twice a year and do his part to hype a fight,

i hate him, i want him to fail, but business is business, and kos hasn't quite earned a pink slip yet, i hope the ufc uses him up and don't let him go till he is worthless,

i also highly doubt robbie would have been cut with a loss, robbie has a pretty decent following and record of exciting fights

just my 2 cents, i hear where you coming from, but just see the other side of the coin too
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:13 PM
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I could see them cutting him, but I could see them keeping him. Like Fitch, Kos is an expensive fighter to have on the roster that is falling farther down the rankings. But he has a fan base and also a group that absolutely hates him and will pay to see him fight.

His record is 1-2 in his last two fights, however the win and one of losses were both controversial split decisions.

I don't want to have the previous discussion in here, but you have to distinguish MMA the sport and UFC the business. Based on record he should probably be let go, but based on what he has to offer the UFC he will likely stay for at least one more fight.
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:29 PM
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I could see them cutting him, but I could see them keeping him. Like Fitch, Kos is an expensive fighter to have on the roster that is falling farther down the rankings. But he has a fan base and also a group that absolutely hates him and will pay to see him fight.

His record is 1-2 in his last two fights, however the win and one of losses were both controversial split decisions.

I don't want to have the previous discussion in here, but you have to distinguish MMA the sport and UFC the business. Based on record he should probably be let go, but based on what he has to offer the UFC he will likely stay for at least one more fight.
One Rule for One person...another Rule for another person

If they are serious about what they said...they MUST act....if they dont, then its proof that what they are doing is protecting people they like, and getting rid of people they dont like.

You Supported Max in what he said about those guys being cut because they were not top contenders, and possibily (though he assumed probably) never would be. Will Josh Koscheck ever be Champion? I'd say there is a 90 percent Chance that Josh Koscheck will NEVER be a UFC Champion. What does he have to offer them? His mouth? His smack? Is this about fighting...or about talking? fine if you can back your mouth up with your fists...but the only fists backing anything up...were Lawlers against Koschecks head.

Applying the same logic that got the bag o brits sacked...Josh Koscheck must go also.


But...your right...they wont release him....and the descrepancy is what I find unfair, and why we have laws here to force insitutions to have standard practises that THEY can not diviate from. I knew it wouldnt take long for the UFC to prove my point entirely...I never expected it within the week.

They know what they must do if they want to show they are legitamate...noone will be fooled by them if they choose any other path.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:52 PM
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One Rule for One person...another Rule for another person
It looks that way, but there isn't a rule at all. They do what they want without any guidelines, hence why you are upset. If they had structure in how they cut people we wouldn't be talking about it.

Quote:
If they are serious about what they said...they MUST act....if they dont, then its proof that what they are doing is protecting people they like, and getting rid of people they dont like.
I read more into the "be exciting and fight you a$$ off" than "if you lost x in a row you are gone".

I hate to even defend Kos, but he is in a way that "company man". He stepped in on short notice to fight Hughes and has offered to do that on several occasions. I am sure that these actions sit well with the company.

Quote:
You Supported Max in what he said about those guys being cut because they were not top contenders, and possibily (though he assumed probably) never would be. Will Josh Koscheck ever be Champion? I'd say there is a 90 percent Chance that Josh Koscheck will NEVER be a UFC Champion. What does he have to offer them? His mouth? His smack? Is this about fighting...or about talking? fine if you can back your mouth up with your fists...but the only fists backing anything up...were Lawlers against Koschecks head.
I did support Max, but I am not about to make it a guideline for every instance. By your logic, lets look at some guys that are on losing streaks that should be gone:

- Rashad Evans - lost last 2, likely not going to be champ again.
- Rich Franklin - 2-2 in last 4, likely not going to be champ again.
- Wanderlei Silva - 2-2 in last 4, likely not going to be champ.
- BJ Penn - 1-2-1 in last 4, likely will not be champ again.

Should these guys still be in the UFC based on their last few fights? They all should stay because they are well known names and people want to see them fight.

Quote:
Applying the same logic that got the bag o brits sacked...Josh Koscheck must go also.


But...your right...they wont release him....and the descrepancy is what I find unfair, and why we have laws here to force insitutions to have standard practises that THEY can not diviate from. I knew it wouldnt take long for the UFC to prove my point entirely...I never expected it within the week.

They know what they must do if they want to show they are legitamate...noone will be fooled by them if they choose any other path.
What they have to decide is if the amount of money they have to pay Koscheck is worth it compared to what he does for them. And I would believe that he does still have some value.

Let me ask you this Dave and this is not trying to take a shot at your favorite fighter. Do you think Zuffa, as a whole, treated Jens well? They allowed him to stay around and lose 5 fights in a row without releasing him.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:09 PM
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1) It looks that way, but there isn't a rule at all. They do what they want without any guidelines, hence why you are upset. If they had structure in how they cut people we wouldn't be talking about it.

2) I read more into the "be exciting and fight you a$$ off" than "if you lost x in a row you are gone".

3) I hate to even defend Kos, but he is in a way that "company man". He stepped in on short notice to fight Hughes and has offered to do that on several occasions. I am sure that these actions sit well with the company.



4) I did support Max, but I am not about to make it a guideline for every instance. By your logic, lets look at some guys that are on losing streaks that should be gone:

- Rashad Evans - lost last 2, likely not going to be champ again.
- Rich Franklin - 2-2 in last 4, likely not going to be champ again.
- Wanderlei Silva - 2-2 in last 4, likely not going to be champ.
- BJ Penn - 1-2-1 in last 4, likely will not be champ again.

5) Should these guys still be in the UFC based on their last few fights? They all should stay because they are well known names and people want to see them fight.

6) What they have to decide is if the amount of money they have to pay Koscheck is worth it compared to what he does for them. And I would believe that he does still have some value.

7) Let me ask you this Dave and this is not trying to take a shot at your favorite fighter. Do you think Zuffa, as a whole, treated Jens well? They allowed him to stay around and lose 5 fights in a row without releasing him.
1) I think they should have a rule. One Rule, practised over all. You wouldnt tollerate this from a Government would you??? Why tollerate it from any company? Just because it belongs to someone, doesnt give them the right to treat their employees badly....or are you fine with coorperate slaves? You dont want to be slaves to your Government...but your fine being a Slave to your Employer? (I mean...where they act in a morally bankrupt way, obviously)

2) of course you did...and there is an argument that says Dana White is doing this to try and limit the number of decisions on a card, and just to shake up those who think any loss is good. But if thats true he still did it at the expense of people who didnt deserve to be Cut.

3) You mean he is a Favourite Thats the problem with at will employers...its bribes and corruption isnt it. if your face fits...if your a "Yes" Man as we put it in England. If you suck up to those in power, and kiss enough ass

4) Oh...I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about clearing the Roster for the elite fighters...not keeping a bunch of "names" Without order there is chaos. For business purposes, you have to be prepared to fire those who are not the elite, or else you arent the "Ultimate" fighting Championships are you?

5) Ludwig Beck was a very high ranking official in the German Army when Hitler came to power. He was one of the key leaders of a plott to kill Adolf Hitler in 1944, a plott which failed. After the Nazi party had reclaimed Berlin they took out those behind the plott, lined them up, and shot them all.

But Ludwig Beck was not amoung them. Because of his Status and his time served in the army, they offered him a pistol, and he did himself.

Dana White has made it clear that BJ Penn should resign and never fight again. That is exactly the same thing. He is offering Penn a way out that would save the embarissment of being forceably removed, by getting him to remove himself. They've done it with Chuck Liddell...and they've done it with Matt Hughes...Dana White made no silence in saying he wanted both to permanently retire..nothing left to proove, etc...and they will do it, no doubt this year to Rich Franklin aswell...I suspect that W.Silva, should he loose his fight next week will jump before he is pushed. He may not expect that level of courtesy from the UFC but cant see him waiting for them...its a phrase known as "falling on ones sword"

Who knows what will happen to Rashad Evans...and frankly...

6) If they dont cut him, they are hypocrits, who lie about wanting only the elite, and just want to keep their friends.

7) Well, they actually moved him from the UFC to the WEC because they couldnt justify him being in the UFC no more. I think during the WEC tenure something was going on with Jens...I'm still certain that he deliberately, for some reason held back in fighting Urijah Faber, I remember discussing that possibility with Jacob Hey at UFC 85 not long after. Jens is a special case even for the UFC because of the whole lower weight class...essentially, the Legacy of Jens Pulver is that you have 155lb fighters, and 145lbs and 135lbs and maybe eventually 125lbs divisions.

I wonder whether they actually trust him though, because they could have used him further and chose not to..I think they feel he might be a loose cannon. The commentating job was absolutely made for him, and they dithered and then never bothered...and they do him a dis-service by putting Mask in the hall of fame and not him.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:55 PM
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I'm experiencing deja vu. Just sayin'...

Well, if that's the protocol for firing (3 consecutive losses) then Josh Neer will be gone as well. But the UFC is a business, if Kos will bring in the fans, he will stay. It's not black and white and private businesses are not necessarily democratic (thank goodness!). Owners are still flexible in policy and allowed to make their own decisions.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:58 PM
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I'm experiencing deja vu. Just sayin'...

Well, if that's the protocol for firing (3 consecutive losses) then Josh Neer will be gone as well. But the UFC is a business, if Kos will bring in the fans, he will stay. It's not black and white and private businesses are not necessarily democratic (thank goodness!). Owners are still flexible to make their own decisions.
It's groundhog day, right?
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:12 PM
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private businesses are not necessarily democratic (thank goodness!). Owners are still flexible in policy and allowed to make their own decisions.
Democratic is the wrong word...but you know what I mean...I mean, they are fair and have some standards that they keep.

I do kinda think Black and White is a good place to start...even with flexible policy...you shouldnt just be making things up as you go along
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:18 PM
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1)it is still about who sells tickets, losses aren't everything,

2) an exciting loss is better than a fitch win, i am no koscheck fan, but i like seeing him get beat, and i do actually expect him to put up a decent fight most of the time, the ufc would be stupid to let him go and let someone else pick him up, kos will fight twice a year and do his part to hype a fight,

3) i hate him, i want him to fail, but business is business, and kos hasn't quite earned a pink slip yet, i hope the ufc uses him up and don't let him go till he is worthless,

4) i also highly doubt robbie would have been cut with a loss, robbie has a pretty decent following and record of exciting fights

just my 2 cents, i hear where you coming from, but just see the other side of the coin too
1) With Koscheck...I think its still all about The Ultimate Fighter...but nevermind

2) Koscheck cant beat Number One Contenders...Thiago Alves, a fail, johny Hendricks, a Fail....and he cant win a contendership himself...GSP, a Fail.

What use is he to an insitution if he's going to be just a gatekeeper? a way of telling who the contenders are...because its like we cant see them til they fell him anyway

3) He has more then merited a cut...if the UFC are prepared to cut people on two losses in a row. People who are equally as exciting, but simply less well known.

From a pure business perspective...I'm afraid to say That Josh Koscheck is almost entirely worthless now. He will never be champion, and appears to be on his way down.

Even I was suprised at what Lawler did. I am not immune to thinking that because someone is a mainstay they are always going to take a hefty amount to be beaten. I even said in my predictions video that I thought that Koscheck would have the upper hand the majority of the time, but that Lawler would be able to find a way to win at a push...Well Koscheck was no Manhoef was he.

The only appeasement required is Josh Koschecks head...and its over due now...and the UFC MUST after last night recognise that. They threatened Urijah Faber because he could win EVERY FIGHT EXCEPT for a Championship Match....but Josh Koscheck...he can get his head pummelled by a man they WOULD cast aside had he lost...and get diplomatic immunity??

Will he join the Golden Fails, on the bench of invincibility....Will he take his seat alongside Dan Hardy, Leonard Garcia, and Mac Danzig...or will the UFC take the sword and spill the blood they promised last week.

4) Its never been unusual for the UFC to get rid of a flop on the first night...the stable is so bloated, I bet they arent actually taking on new people without a win...although personally, I'd love for them to spare that Kuivanen chap
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