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Old 02-09-2009, 02:26 AM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
Angry @ Injustice!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 17,097

Originally Posted by Spiritwalker
1) Well.. You know it's not like Germany has anything to be ashamed of...

2)And our flag is not just an object. It's an idea and an ideal.

The bars reprsent the orginal 13 colonies, the starred blue canton reprsent the states and is also called the "union". Displaying only the stared canton can be called the Union Jack.

Most people in the states know the stars represent the states, but less than 1 in 10 know what the bars are for.

3) One of the few flag traditions that I have been happy that has changed is the "wearing of the flag". I personally view that as love and support for my country. I have a jacket from over 20 years ago that I painted an iron cross on, but then used the flag... "think read white and blue colored iron cross"... most people I knew hated it.. but a few knew.. and the few that asked.. I told them.. then they understood.

4) Think this...
"I believe in the United States of America, as a government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union, one and inseparable; established upon those principals of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it, to support its Constitution, to obey its laws, to respect its flag, and to defend it against all enemies.” -William Tyler Page
1) my point is, careful you dont do the same. The German people was oppressed, in depression and lulled into a flase sense of security by a fantastic public speaker, who made a shed load of promises he had no intention of keeping, and a shed load of others that he expressed in a vastly different way to what the people thought. You can understand why that country, and the rest of Europe who received first hand the consequences are less patriotic then yourselves...they know where it can lead under the wrong circumstances

cant say I'm pleased by the nature of this thread...the big Obama poster next to the flag, the children addressing a Human rather then an inanimate object to pledge their alligience to. You know, when your cities have either been raised to the ground by an invasion, or been razed by nights of bombing raids, you would understand the caution the rest of the world has over such things as Nationalism of another didnt like it when the Soviets went Nationalistic did least they werent your next door geographical neighbours...

2) Your flag is an object. Its whats known as a symbolic token, a token is a signpost that points to something other then itself. In your case the deals....which I hasten to add, different Americans will view differently. The flag in itself has no meaning, but the meaning you put in it. This is the same with any physical token, the reason being we can look at the same flag and have it represent different things. Ergo the flag itself carries no meaning, we project the meaning onto it. Even it the author creates it with a meaning, those meanings can be perverted through time

3) your flag came with a little ettiquette guide as to what to do and what not to do. You are NOT supposed to use your flag as an item of clothing. But then you are not supposed to stick stuff to it either, like I have. Shockingly, you must not throw away tatty ones, you have to burn them in a ritual ceremony.

4) I dont have a problem with that, until you either decide to make the world in your image, or to shun other nations that do not adhere to that. Patriotism is fine...but Nationalism is taking that love and imposing it on others or judging others by that standard. As soon as you act on the feeling that you are superior or better, then you move from Patriotism into Nationalism...and you've got to be VERY careful when you do that outside of your own soverignty. The United States of America..does not equate to anything beyond those fifty states and its realms and territories...others may not thank you for helping them, nor like you for judgeing them.

Personally, I love Americans, and I do believe that America has got it right. I do believe that its the last true Vestige of Christondom outside of Rome, I do believe that Americans and everything in America is bigger and better. I love them because they still believe in something that is sacred. Whilst the rest of the world abandoned that. TRUE post-Modernity hasnt really settled into America yet. Thats a GOOD thing. American hospitality is like nothing else on Earth, and whilst culturally confident, Americans when understood properly arent arrogant, they just have an amazing pool of confidence, self believef and ideology. But I am unusual to think this where I come from. People have in the past told me I show positive racisim towards Americans... but honnest to GOD, I aint making it up, in my experience Americans are bigger and better, and in my experience things in America are larger...I prooved this when I bought a bottle of cola in the US to find it had a LARGER amount of cola in it
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