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Old 06-24-2009, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by NateR
I understand why unions where created in the first place, however, they're one of the primary reasons that America is in the mess that it is.
To place the primary blame on unions is misguided at the very least, and insulting to the hard working unionized American workers.

Originally Posted by NateR
I don't think anyone was blaming union workers, we're talking about the people who run the unions. They can be just as corrupt and greedy as those "evil CEOs" (who seem to be the popular scapegoat for all the countries ills right now).

Forgive me if I took your first quote as to put the blame on the union workers.

Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake
There is both good and greed on both sides of the Unions and the Companies, but at a time when jobs are scarce, and consumer spending is way down, the people who make good money, and have good benefits, from working in unions have to understand that they are going to take a hit too, just like the rest of us.

What makes you think that they haven't? I can give you factual information about my union and the major give-backs that we have given over the past decade and a half, if not two decades.

People seem to forget, you get what you pay for. You want employees that have dedication and care about the job, you pay them well and treat them well. You want fast turnover and a crappy product, pay a crappy wage and treat employees like scum.

While I have never needed my union to save my job from actions of my own doing, I have seen members need to use the union to keep clueless members of management in check. There is good and bad in unions just as there is good and bad in life in general.

My years as a shop steward made me see good and bad in both the union's position and in management's position. When I have been in a management position, I've treated the employees with respect and they in turn did the job and treated me with respect back. Never once did I have a complaint from the union against me.

I've seen more non-union managers hung out to dry and lose their jobs by my company than any union employee. They had nothing to protect them and many of them wished that they did. In fact some members of management gave up their position and joined the union ranks, and vice-versa.
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