Originally Posted by Buzzard
My defense mechanism, look at you, just like any typical keyboard psychiatrist. Believe me, I don't get angry at what I read and respond to on internet forums. I basically forget about it after I hit "submit reply" until the next time I surf back to the site.
Yes, your defense mechanism. It's quite easy for me to see.
I never said that everybody believed that. You are asking the questions, I am giving you the answers. The Bible does indeed carry God's infallible message, if you want a different answer go and ask another human being who is not a Christian. If it's beyond your realm of comprehension to understand that Man is who wrote and translated the Bible, and that Man IS fallible, then I cannot help you. I am not angry about anything you are saying, but it's a pretty simple point to understand. The things that get misunderstood by common men is not a fault in the message, it's a fault in the messenger. You either get that or you don't.
You stated it as fact. So what you are saying is that yes, the Bible has errors and discrepancies.
If I was uncomfortable, why did I answer the question straight up? With that you are just creating conflict out of thin-air.
I don't know. I just asked if you were and if so you shouldn't be.
Seriously, you are beyond confrontational to suggest that people who agree with capitol punishment are not opening themselves up to the teaching of Jesus when you admit you have no real knowledge of the Bible. That is just utter ignorance.
I don't see Jesus as a DP guy, you know the whole let he who is without sin cast the first stone thing when everyone walked away from a possible stoning of the lady, to paraphrase it poorly. While I have never studied the Bible, I have read it and am always open to learning. I do have real knowledge of the Bible, but not from a scholarly point nor to the extent of many here on this site. I can't recite chapter and verse either, but I can and do read it and learn more every time I do.
Don't sit there and act like you are Mr. Innocent, and only here to learn, you stir the pot at just about every chance you get in threads like this one when you already know what most of the people around this forums are going to think. If you are just here to learn then why did you attack Dave? Don't act like it did not happen just because it got deleted either.
I have yet to bring religion into the politics forum, but will discuss issues pertaining to religion when brought up by someone else. I am not a mind reader, that is why I ask questions. Was my interpretation of the 6th commandment wrong? I didn't attack Dave, I jabbed him a bit in the context of the 6th commandment. I know it happened and won't deny it either. If Dave wishes to know what my reply was, he can message me.
Yes, I saw that you said 4 denominations, so what? The point is that site still cherry picked the links to correspond with it's own Anti-DP agenda. They stuck a couple in that agreed, okay, but even Hannity has liberals on his show. Sticking 2 or 3 in a list of 15 or 20 makes it look like it's the minority view amongst people of Christian faith.
Go find some links to churches that say they are pro DP and fill me in. You just seem miffed that these Christian churches don't share your acceptance of the DP. If you read all of the standings of the churches, how many were pro DP and how many anti DP?
It's not a stretch to assume that most Christians, especially in America, do agree with the death penalty. This is a predominantly Christian nation, you cannot argue that, and the death penalty is still widely accepted by most people of all faiths. Most states STILL have it, and have you bothered to look at the poll numbers up at the top? Wait, it MUST be ALL of us who are wrong and misinformed, not you, right?
It is somewhat strange that all of these Christians don't seem to mind the taking of a life knowing full well that there is the possibility that an innocent could be wrongfully executed. I'd really like to see how you come to the conclusion that the DP is widely accepted by most people of all faiths. Nice broad paintbrush you are using again. As for the poll, I believe that the one Christian who is against it is someone that does follow the spirit of Jesus.
You are entitled to you opinions and they are what they are, neither right nor wrong. It just surprises me that those pro DP folks are ok with it.
You make it about class and race because it's a continuous liberal fascination. ATTACK THE MAN!!! Yeah dude, like rich whitey is totally keeping us down man... far out....yeah man, take their money and give it back to the poor people man, it's only fair...
This nonsense doesn't deserve a reply.
Did you call anybody a racist? Not directly, but you didn't have to. Your argument stinks of the race card worse than Jesse Jackson's wallet. You want to apply the misuse of power by some to your argument and use it as reason to get rid of the power. That is nonsense. People have misused cars, knives, guns, and every other inanimate object in existence, better take all that away too. Do you want to talk about violent crime rates in high minority and high poverty areas? Because that is relevant to the discussion, and you cannot just overlook the crime because of the poverty. You can't call all gang shootings and bad drug deals a product of poverty. It's a product of social acceptance that has existed in those areas for far too long.
Who then did I indirectly call a racist? Where and what power do you say I am try to get rid of? Nonsense is how you think you can read my mind.
1. You seem to think I give a crap what you think about me or my beliefs, when I truly don't. I don't mind a lively discussion, and I am not close-minded to other peoples views, but I don't have to agree with them, and I don't have to kiss your butt and tell you I think it's okay for "you to have your view" when I think it's completely wrong. Especially when you are talking about matters of Christianity and you come right out and admit you know next to nothing about the Bible and you are a non-believer. If your intentions are truly just to ask questions to learn more about the views of Christians, then you would be better served to not come off as trying to take shots at those who do believe, and you certainly have no place questioning the faith of anybody who happens to disagree with your narrow understanding of Christianity. I am not angry at you, but I don't agree with your view, or the manner in which you are delivering your message.
2. Just because the various translations and interpretations can sometimes be misunderstood by the common man, it does not make the message fallible. My point here has been explained thoroughly. You get it or you don't, but I am not concerned with if you agree or disagree with it at this time.
3. I am totally comfortable telling you I am a non-denominational Christian. Most of the Churches I have attended have been Lutheran, but my family never really followed a specific denomination.
4. Yes, Jesus did say "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", but the rest of the chapter also needs to be put into context. I am not a Biblical scholar by any means, but my take on John 8 is that Jesus was proclaiming himself to be the son of the one true God as he was being challenged by the scribes and pharisees. The woman cheated on her husband, she was not a child rapist or a serial killer. When he said "neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more", he was basically telling her that if she believes in him and does not sin that her soul would not be condemned and she would be fogiven by God. Jesus still did not approve of her sin, but he knew that judgment that the Jews were passing on her was not a righteous one, but rather that of test on Jesus himself. If you back up to John 7:24, Jesus says "Judge not according to appearance, but judge a righteous judgment"
. Worldly judgments and divine judgments are two different things, but God's message is also clear that law and order is to be upheld, and we are to follow all the laws of the land as long as they do not violate the laws of God. Capital punishment is not something I like to think we need, but the hard reality is we do need it, and in every modern case that I am aware of where the death penalty has been applied it was a fair judgment. In America, there are no proven cases of any innocent people being executed by the death penalty in modern times that I am aware of. If you know of one, please enlighten me.
5. You can call it a jab, but it was totally uncalled for. Going back to John 7:24, it's not a very righteous judgment for you say those things about him based on looking at a picture. If it was as mild as you claim, why did a mod magically erase the post and the two other posts responding to it? Like I said before, I don't get worked up about forum disputes, I say my piece, make my points and move on. However, from time to time there are things that people say that I feel are just out of line, and I will definitely call them on it.
6. No, I did not read every denominations standing in their entirety, but I did glance over each one. There were only a couple that clearly supported the death penalty. I am not "miffed" by anybody who does not support it, and I clearly understand their reasoning, I just don't agree with it. I am not alone in that belief, and many of the people who share that same belief are also Christian, and they are not any less Christian for believing that. Still, a point which you have ignored is that the website you keep referring to is obviously one-sided on the subject. Am I going to post links to denominations who agree with the DP? No, I am not because I am non-denominational and I don't really care. If you are that interested look it up.
7. My broad brush is painting in full color and high definition, it's clearer than a Mitsubishi big screen. If you don't think that most people in this world agree with executing child rapists and serial killers then you are delusional. Could an innocent man be executed? Yes. Does that mean that the death penalty itself is wrong? No. Does the man who is Christian yet opposes the DP follow the spirit of Jesus? Yes, he does, but does a Christian man who agrees with it not follow that same spirit as well? Yes he does.
8. It may be nonsense, but it's how I am perceiving your arguments because that is what it reminds me of. If that is not you, okay cool, but that's what it came off like to me.
9. I don't attempt to read your mind, I go right off of what you say. You raised a point that suggested the death penalty is unfairly applied to poor people and minorities. That is a debating tactic known as pulling the race card. The issue of poverty and race has no place in a debate about the legality and morality of the death penalty. Yet you felt compelled to bring it up to try and add substance to your argument. The point again is that if a judge or prosecutor unfairly or unjustly gives the death penalty to somebody, it is not the fault of the penalty itself. It is the fault of the person who abuses their power, and they would have to answer to law of the land and eventually judgment from God. See the point?