Originally Posted by Tyburn
1) The core principle of Calvinism is that things a pre-destined, and the reason they are pre-destined is because we can not initiate, because we are so sinful. If you love GOD, for example, Calvinists dont believe its because you choose to love GOD, but because GOD has chosen you to Love him, and initiated.
Someone in that position has NO rights. Not the right to free will, not the right to choose. They...more then any other denomination would denounce the ideals of any Rights period.
You're kind of almost halfway right, but then you just go and take a wild left turn in that second paragraph and get everything wrong.
GOD is sovereign, no one claiming to be a Christian can deny that. The Bible is also clear that love for GOD, faith and salvation are not possible if human beings are left to their own devices. In our natural state, we are haters of GOD and everything that GOD stands for. So that part is true.
However, understanding that we must be submissive to GOD is completely unrelated to being submissive to human governments. In fact, more often than not, human governments require their citizens to participate in actions that are a direct violation of GOD's law. In those cases, the government becomes a barrier between people and GOD and submission to those types of governments becomes a sin.
I personally hate using the term "Calvinism" because the 5 points of Calvinism predate John Calvin, the Church and even the New Testament. They can be found throughout the Bible, going all the way back to Genesis.
However, many Calvinists were instrumental in the formation of the United States and they absolutely did not
denounce the idea of human rights. In fact, the US federal government was actually based on the structure of the Presbyterian church (a Calvinist denomination). In it's early days it was referred to as a "presbyterian government."
Finally, the truth of GOD's sovereignty does not mean that human rights don't exist. That's 100% false and not even a logical conclusion to draw; so I'm not really sure how you are coming up with that.
So, you should take the time to really examine what other people believe and not just assume that you can guess what they believe based on your own incomplete understanding of the topic.
Originally Posted by Tyburn
I cant wait to hear the rest of your responses..along I hope with your scriptural points to back up your argument...but in your own time Nathan
Honestly an internet debate is not a real priority for me right now. Plus, I want to give myself enough time to really think this through and understand why I believe what I believe before responding. It might take days, months or even years, but I'll get around to responding eventually.
Since silence on the internet is often falsely interpreted as surrender or submission, some people like to prematurely claim victory in a topic just because the person holding the opposing viewpoint doesn't instantly respond. However, if you really want a thoughtful, intelligent debate, then you can't fault people for taking the time to research and contemplate their responses.