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Old 02-04-2014, 07:14 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
Angry @ Injustice!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 17,097

Originally Posted by NateR View Post
1) As Christians we understand that everything we have is given to us by GOD. From the breath in our lungs to the food in our bellies, even our life itself.

So, GOD grants life. No one claiming to be a Christian can deny that.

2) Liberty. A person's natural desire is for freedom. Of course that desire gets corrupted because we are sinful, so liberty in this sense is NOT the freedom to pursue immoral or evil desires. It's the freedom to pursue the desires that GOD has placed in each and every one of our hearts. This is something that is a bit more difficult for non-Christians to understand, but it should be another no-brainer for Christians.

This is also where the two greatest commandments come into play: love GOD above all else and treat others the way you would like to be treated. If you keep those two commandments, then you can never abuse your liberty. The Founding Fathers understood this and it's why they warned us that the great American experiment would fail if our country abandoned the Christian values that we were founded upon.

3) The pursuit of happiness is simply the drive to live our lives according to the unique design that GOD has given each and every one of us. For some that might be raising a family, for others it might be art or music, still others might have a bent towards animal husbandry or farming. The list goes on and people can even have combinations of multiple GOD-given desires.

Governments can only infringe upon those basic rights and they do that with rigor, all the time. Even America itself has become corrupted to the point where American citizens don't even understand what this country was founded upon. Some of those people end up in the government and they might even end up in the highest seats of government (like the Presidency for example).

So, it's an ideal that America was founded upon; but that doesn't mean that we are always the best representatives of that ideal.
1) Suddenly you've dropped calvinism have you again? You rightly (pardon the pun) use the word "Grant"

GOD GRANTS lots of things...just like Matt Hughes might Grant an interview...does it mean that the receptor has a "Right" to that?

NO...What GOD gives is discretionary....a have NO rights under a Supreme Monarchy...The reason you probably dont understand that is the fundemental problem here.

Who do you think GOD is? and where exactly do you think YOU fit in to the food chain. You've been in the Military, this should be a no-brainer! You dont have "Rights" except those given to you by Authority...England, for Centuries was runned by a Supreme Monarch, in EXACTLY the way Martial Law in the military works.

2) You have no degree in sociology I presume, or you would know that people do not always seek freedom. They usually are satisfied with whatever they are used to, and some people, are naturally submissive and would find the idea of "Freedom" as horrifying as an agrophobic person being pushed outside.

We have drives to survive, and instincts...but the only Spiritual desire we have is to seek for purpose, meaning and to understand ourselves...that is because we were made as a half, with GOD providing fulfilment...and that is why we search.

Give freedom to a people who are not, and never have been democratic, and you end up endagenering the whole geographic location. Give someone who has been locked up fourty years, complete freedom, and they will probably struggle to cope to do anything.

People can be trained, Nathan, to accept all kinds of things...Again, having been in the military, I am shocked by your responces above.

3) The persuit of happiness, and a Vocational Calling, are NOT the same...infact I can give you Biblical Examples, of what a load of bollox that is. Shall we start with Moses and his response, when GOD gave him his calling. infact, its more likely you will be called in a place well outside of your comfort zone.

That has the duel purpose of stopping one taking too much pride in ones own achievements, when really, one knows that it is only the strength of GOD that allows them to do something which they, themselves, are NOT good at.

I tell you what...Proove it too me....Back up each of your Rights with a passage of Scripture, and I'll consider your POV in more depth. oh yes...Nathan...YOU taught me well
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