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Old 06-12-2013, 06:11 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,622

Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
Okay...sorry but I really think President Lincoln was those quotes, he uses as his premise that its unlawful to leave, a document PRE the Constituion, and tries to say that because History has never seen a state leave, therefore, history never can. Pepetual Unionism...ever expanding, but never contracting...thats a lovely ideal...but it doesnt make departure from the Union unlawful. Its all well and good to try and better the union, but if it doesnt work, there is only so long one should try to make it more perfect before deciding on another course of action.

"The States have their status in the Union, and they have no other legal status"

MY GOD, WTF does he think State Governments are???? The Union was designed to be the sum of all the states...the power flows from the bottom up, NOT the top down..."The Union" should exist without the input of the individual soverignties. I dont know what he thought he was saying there, but thats probably the most dictatorial thing I have EVER heard from a US President...and it just proves my point more. He believed The Union, Himself, was the be all and end all of legal matters. He didnt believe in the soverignty of the individual states at all. Thats undemocratic, thats NOT constitutionalist...THIS is why you have a problem with your Government today, THIS is why your State Governments have no authority, no power, no rights, no freedom, except that which is dictated to them by a Federal Entity that exists in its own right "If they break from this they can only do so against law and by revolution."

Hate to say it...but under the guise of that above...I would say that Americans, even if they didnt want to leave the union, might have needed a revolution.

I had thought this was the way it probably was...but I wanted to be sure because I didnt honnestly know the I have actual quotes I can see quite plainly.

I think your nation would have been better off without the war entirely.

Lincoln should have just let them go. Its ironic, that the very man who most wanted to save Democrasy, and preserve the longevity of the Union in order to keep alive the Washington Ideals, effectively, distroyed it, by trying to cling to power, and by violating the freedoms of the individual states.

He may have won the war...but at what cost? I dont think George Washington would recognise your Union today
seems to have done a good job ... doubt any state will try and secede anytime soon ... some states may talk a big game, but when it comes down to it, none of them have the cajones to do it ..
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