Originally Posted by Neezar
What kind of demands are y'all making to the EU?
I mean what is it about the EU that your people are unhappy with?
The most major concern with the European Union is that its NOT what we joined. Originally the idea of a "European Union" was all based on a common market, it was about trade, industry links. The Union was smaller in those days so it was more about paying into a collective, that would make trade easier and allow "Europe" to be considered a Trade Station, as opposed to a multitude of smaller Trades with countries that had no alliance.
When England signed up to this, we had Maggie in power. A conservative who was worried that the governing body of this European Trade group were going to be handling a hell of a lot of money, and that in her words it could become "The back door to a Federal Europe" which is something no Republican or Conservative would want because it means giving up powers over Soverign issues.
Unfortunately it was one of the very last things Maggie did before she was ousted by her own party. The next Conservative leader was weak, and when his term passed we moved into a period of time controlled by the Labour Party. Headed by the infamous Tony Blair.
The Europeans had moved on from just helping each other with a common market, and they now had a Government of Representatives from all the member States of Europe...they are called MEPs, Member of the European Parliament. It was felt to make trade most easy, all the countries in the Union would have to share the same financial currency...for across Europe there was Francs, Pounds, Punts, Marks, Drachma...and a whole lot more. The idea was to form a single currency called "The Euro"
Seventeen States agreed to this in the Union, the rest did not. It was then decided to have a kinda two tier Europe. Those who used the Euro, became "The Euro-Zone" those who did not remained simply as a member of the European Union
The Founding countries by now were paying more into the pot then some of the later countries, as the European Union developed into the Eastern Russian Block and the Middle East. As they went the Parliament got stronger and stronger. It began to appoint itself and create new cross country insitutions which were not ellected, nor accountable to the public. As such, it wanted more money, and more similarities amoung Nations to make coorperation and its work more easy.
Then the European Union decided, as a completely isolated body, it wanted a President. So it appointed one for itself. This was the tipping point for me, between when it moved from being about easy Trade between Nations, to an Institution which wanted political unity and power to govern...and of course, it was unellected.
They began to pass laws which all the member states had to enact. One of the very worse was that all citizens within the European Union effectively had free movement. Obviously there was a big desparagy between living in What was Russia...and living in England...and so mass migration began on a level that England simply couldnt cope with. Any underprivilaged European wanted to become a Brit...or a German...or any nationality where the standard of living was better...and under the European Laws they could do so...and we had great trouble trying to stop them. These Countries suffered an unknown side effect of a single currancy...See whilst they all shared the currency, they did not share the same economy...and so one would put up intrest rates to benefit itself...and that had a dire effect on another, weaker country close by.
England and The Republic of Eire wanted to call them to account by placing a veto on their treaties. According to their own laws, they cant be passed without all member states agreeing to them. So when the Republic of Eire vetoed the Lisbon Treaty, we all expected Europe to be put in its place....but The European Parliament simply ignored the Veto, and made the changes law anyway.
Then the wall street wobble occured, the financial instability in the United States rippled out across Europe causeing a wave of Nationalization (when the Governments take control of the banks because the banks dont have the capitol to back themselves up) this means one of two things...either the Government directly controls the banks...OR the Banks become indepted to the Governments. All this "Common Market Trade" since the begining of the European Union suddenly caught up with all the weaker countries in the membership...one by one they could not afford the debt...and so the European Union decided to replace their Governments. The Union of course being controlled by the Country with the most Money....Germany....Whose money originally came from the Americans in the rebuilding process after the war.
Germany now had the right to demand member Government do what it says, or else face bankruptsy...and as members of the European Union, if the Member Country decided to follow German Orders, it got given money...Money from the pot that member countries pay into...So effectively MY MONEY. I pay Tax to the Government...The Government pays the Union...Germany decides where the Union Money goes...and its used to black mail other countries, through a Foreign, Unellected Parliament, who dont even follow their own laws.
Then Finally, the Reign of Tony Blair fell apart and a Conservative was back in power, atleast as part of a Coilition Government
(Part of Tony Blairs last speech to the House of Commons at Prime Minister (notice David Cameron, a future prime minister, is leader of the opposition at the time lol...he looks much older now...no?)
...horrified at the replacement Governments in Greece and Italy...Worried of future replacement Governments in The Republic of Eire, and Spain...AND noticing that it was not one of the Strongest....They instigated Great Austerity, the likes that we havent seen since the Winters of Discontent. They were angry that they still had to give money to Europe...and that the stipulation of a Rebate which Maggie got moments before her political career was felled, was criticized by Germany who wanted, naturally to change that.
The Finaly Blow was called The European Supreme Court. The European Parliament dictated that all members must have and abide by The European Supreme Court...again, made up of unellected individuals. That this court be the highest in the land. Well...When British Members of Parliament take their seats, they must sware an oath to Her Majesty The Queen, saying that SHE is the Highest Court in the Land...The Crown Court of Appeals. For along time the European Court of Appeals was Higher...but that was fine, coz it wasnt based in England...The Supreme Court has bases IN ENGLAND.
The penny dropped that we had suddenly given too much power away. The Europeans moved to give convicted criminals the right to vote from behind bars, and the House of Commons stood up in outrage. The German Chancellor announced the only way out of the Euro-zone Crisis was by FULL FINANCIAL UNION...and for the first time in its Thirty odd year History, England went to the European Summit and flatly refused. When we did it...other states did it aswell...meanwhile, those Seventeen States are now begining a process that will lead to German Rule over Seventeen European Soverignties Financially...and inevitably...a Political Rule will follow that, as you cant have Soverign States rule themselves, if they have no power over their own money and share an economy.
There will rise a Federal Europe...EXACTLY the same as your Federation...Where your States have next to Zero Control, and have their money removed from them if they dont do what the Federal Government Demands....Where a President can loose a popular vote and gain office. Its a Sham of Democracy. We dont want to be Rulled by Germans...we dont want to be rulled by anyone but ourselves.
In under a Century, the Whole of Europe will be under The German Chancellor...imagine how those who lost loved ones in the war feel? What would the soldiers who died think? The German Chancellor has already passed the point of no return, unless the single currency is distroyed...there WILL be a Federal Europe...its now pretty much inevitable for those Seventeen States...what England has to decide now is whether to be the Eighteenth State or not...and I think NOT
The Irony is that David Cameron thinks if he renegotiates with Europe, to remove the Supreme Court, To stop the European Arrest Warrent, To repatriate much of our powers...that the public will think that maybe they should stay anyway.
He's Wrong...and the US President is Correct...If/When the People are asked...it doesnt matter what the new deal is...We will withdraw almost certainly. Now the US doesnt like that because their method of dealing with Europe, it to sweet talk England into representing them to a Federation which hasnt been impressed by US Foreign Policy in the last Decade. The US finds it easy working with England, because in the Blair epoch, it was considered the only way to keep any shred of power on the world stage was to cosy up to the Americans. We thus had an important position as Go-Between. The Europeans spoke to us...we told the Americans...the Americans replied to us...we told the Europeans. That was fine for the first part of the era...but when America decided to put us in a position where we had to choose to side with them, or with Europe...that put us in an awkward position. We pulled it off...but Blair was the sacrificially lamb with appeasing Europe...and of course the populas could see that, whilst we dont want to be rulled by Europe...we dont want to be rulled by America either...and at that point...Europes Growth seemed silent and non offensive.
(Resignation Speech of Robin Cook, over the War in Iraq, which has permanently damaged Europe - United States Direct diologue without British Intervention ever since...and Barack Obama recognises this, hence the personal call)
Now...IF David Cameron makes this speech...things will change. We will be saying NO To Europe...we will also be saying NO to America...It should ensure another Conservative led Government after the next Ellection, the Labour Party will have to also promise a referendum if they hope to be ellected next time, The Liberal Democrats will be absolutely Screwed...and the rise of The United Kingdom Independance Party...which are leading on our MEPs (YES OUR REPRESENTATIVES IN THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT ARE NATIONLISTS!) will pretty much be complete.
If David Cameron truely wants us to stay in Europe...he shouldnt make this speech...but he thinks he can change our minds...and is prepared to ask us...which makes him Great...He knows that he may have to lead our Nations against his personal wishes, but on the terms of his people...Something the leader of NO Federation has EVER Been able to do...Including George Washington...who, Had he listened to the voice of his people above his own personal thoughts, would have Founded a Monarchy in America...and Including Abraham Lincoln, who...in theory, should have let the Confederates go...if they no longer want to be part of the Union, that is their will...and if they are incharge...he should listen to them...Neither, incidently did George Bush, when he vetoed constantly Congress over withdrawal in Iraq...He might have been morally correct...but he wasnt listening to his people.
The Truth is, any Democrasy is an ellected dictatorship, and Every Federal Government holds the Soverignty of its member states in Bondage...What You and the Germans call "Federation" I call "Empire"
Naturally...I'm all in favour of "Empire"
When its British led.