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Old 12-20-2012, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
So sorry if what I am about to say offends anyone, but what PTM said typifies exactly what a lot of English people feel towards America, and why. I have to say, that I understand your culture FAR better then you understand mine. But when I am faced with such an outrage as the bloody pretense of smug "help" which only made matters worse...rather then telling the truth about these "Gifts" of defence to Britons...well I'm afraid we open the history books and tell the truth, I'm sorry if that reflects badly on America, or upsets good americans, that are my friends, and cant be held responsible for the wayward nature of a grossly obease Federal thing...but I will never the less tell afew home truthes...You would do the same if roles were reversed...as you often do if I get my facts wrong


Oh...this would be help from Americans during the war would it? Americans that didnt even get involved until they were directly attacked...helpped us, and then pretend that THEY won the war?

This would be the America which helpped our nation by sending us "DONATED" supplies by sea across the Atlantic, and then in a time when it was loaded with cash and we had none because we had defended ourselves for years before the american intervention, turned round and told us it had been a loan, and expected repayment with interest which was still going on in MY lifetime.

I dont mean to be rude...but we would find ways of surviving without America...after all...the vast majority of our History, when we were at our height, with an Empire on which the sun never set, happened largely before "America" even existed in its modern form.

We survived the Normans, the Vikings, Nations that came and went in Our History before America...and Adolf never tried to invade this country. Why not is a mystery when despite your aid of firearms, we were a sitting duck after dunkirk. When all military stratagists lobbied Hitler, and rightly so from a germanic point of view, or even a sensible point of view if you want to win a war, to attack....He went for an insurmountable Russia.

Well..that will be the same reason why in a campaign of all night bombing, for fifty seven consecutive nights...something no American would know anything about since such an outrage never happened on American soil....the entire German Airforce, given a region, precisely one square mile in size, managed to miss the only large building and main target in the whole city.

You explain it. Or shall I? The Americans did not defend us...Our Defence came from GOD himself on both those two levels.

We are a shell of our former self...we lost everything, our Empire, our Wealth, our Power because instead of doing what was right, America left us to our fate...and then jumped in when we were almost dead on our feet, our Cities distroyed, our whole generation of men, dead.

So dont pretend that those arms were gifts...because we had to pay the Americans for everything they gave us...it was hardly from the kindness of their heart. It was about capitalistic gain and investment which America did, in Central Europe.

Shall we talk about what a success that has been? My,My, on the eve of what can only be described as a Federal Europe, with a successor of the German Chancellor as its head. Post War Europe is made in whose image? Coz, correct me if im wrong....but wasnt this what we were physically fighting to stop about 85 odd years ago.

Or would you rather we talked about the muslims, who bombed our capitol because we helpped you fight your wars?
Tyburn, I would consider myself an Anglophile. I don't dance on the grave of the British Empire. I wish that Britain would have been better armed prior to WW2. Thankfully, they were able to fight off the Nazi attack; however, it was by no means a certainty at the time. My point is that a country should be well-armed because we never know what dangers and threats await us. I want our country to be well-armed against any threat: be it Mexican drug lords, Muslim terrorists or the Red Chinese Army.
As far as the U.S. saving Britain, I believe the comment Churchill made about his thoughts when he went to sleep on Pearl Harbor Day: I "went to bed and slept the sleep of the saved and thankful."
The arms donated by the Committee were gifts from private American citizens. The British government also had agents purchasing arms in America. You are probably referring to debts related to the Lend-Lease Act, which involved warships, not private arms donated by private citizens.
You sound like a Calvinist saying that God defended you rather than the U.S.
I don't want to burst your bubble about St. Paul's, but I am going to relate a comment I heard from a WW2 pilot's wife. The pilot and his wife were touring Europe many years after WW2 and were touring a cathedral in an Axis country (I think it was Austria but can't recall). The docent mentioned that the cathedral had made it through the war unscathed and attributed it to the beneficence of the Almighty. After the tour, the pilot whispered to his wife that the cathedral was within the area of his bombing runs and was purposely left unscathed so it could serve as a landmark to help with coordinates in the era before GPS. I don't mean to question your faith, but the German pilots probably didn't destroy it so they had a landmark for future bombings (e.g. your next target is a factory 1.3 miles north of the cathedral).
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