Originally Posted by NateR
1) That was one of Jesus Christ's primary messages, read the Gospels. In fact, the teachings of Christ give us some of the most vivid imagery of Hell in the Bible.
2) Did you ever stop to think that people can only become fearful of Hell because the Holy Spirit instills that fear within them? If people aren't being led by the Holy Spirit then any talk of Hell is just going to sound like nonsense or a joke to them.
3) I don't think anyone is saying that people need to feel like scum before they can be productive. However, people do need to have a realistic assessment of themselves and sometimes reality isn't pretty. To have an accurate assessment of who we are, we need to accept the bad with the good and not gloss over the bad while exaggerating the good.
4) Although, self-hatred is actually something that the Bible encourages (Job 42:6), because it means that we truly understand how we measure up to GOD and it's not good news for us at all.
1) Really...do show us where he uses frightening images to cause converts.
2) If someone does something out of fear...have they made a free choice?
3) Well my post was aimed really at PTMs original and not your response to it. To the best of my knowledge there was no mention of GOD in his original text. It seemed to be somebody wanting to make headlines, simply being rude to a group of wealthy students.
Nothing in the original message spoke of viewing things accurately, infact without inclusion of GOD on the matter, "accurate" is neither here nor there.
4) Not unless we truely understand the rest of the story, and thats the issue. It always easier to break down then build up. We constantly try to make the ends justify the means, and constantly seek to better others...but we are not very good at rebuilding.
The stresses on the Title Deeds we hold (which is the origin of the word "faith" used in Pauline texts) should be equally mentioned. There is a temptation to think that one is worthless and that the promises of Christians about the glories thereafter are nothing more then something "hoped" for, something "unseen" and frankly to anyone feeling down about themselves unreal. Always put it in context of the light, because the aim is to get people to be happy about who they are, knowing what they mean to Christ, and what Christ gives them...NOT for them to be bogged down in shame, fear, pity for themselves, focused only on their sin...all of which can lead to a great many distractions...which, again the demons dont mind one bit.
Lets focus on the truth. The Truth is that ALL ARE SPECIAL because ALL are made in Christs image and therefore have Intrinsic Value...THAT is the grounding on which you can THEN talk about how far we fall short.
Let people know there is a safety net BEFORE you push them off the ledge, then they might not shyte their pants on the way down