Originally Posted by Fred
1) LOL, you didn't like the thoughts I gave about depression. Well, I don't have personal experience with depression; but I have studied (not to degree level) about neurotranmission and some of the various DSM disorders (Major Depression, Cyclothymic Disorder, etc.) The bottom line is that in some people, serotonin, norepineprine, or acetylcholine can be out of balance because of bad diet, disease, or drug/alcohol abuse which damages neuronal membranes and thus, neurotransmission.
2) In other people, they may have learned bad habits or ineffective coping skills which facilitate some negative thought patterns.
3) But, in almost every case, there is a basic loss of equilibrium, hope and focus. Completely deflated or frozen by anxiety. No goal-setting. No focus on activity outside of oneself. I've seen this in some family members. The focus on self is a huge part of the problem with depressives.
4) Regeneration is, by far, the best answer to that, and I've seen people get better because their prayer life improved and they got busy, working around other active, healthy people. Activity (including strenuous exercise) does a lot to increase neurotransmission, and working hard toward goals slowly repairs the neural pathways in the brain, as well. Staying off excessive booze and hard drugs is crucial, too. Fellowship, prayer, and service can take one a long way toward keeping up the activity level all week, and I've seen those things help depressed people tremendously.
5) Let's face it: Psychology and Psychiatry over the last 100 years has been a failure. They are a total bust.
6) Few would argue that people, in general, are healthier or more mentally stable now than even a few decades ago. There used to be a time when you gave someone a pep-talk and a kick in the pants, and that's all it was expected to take to get them moving. Now, we have more labels for all the disorders, and more ways to "treat" them, but with abysmal results.
7) Too many people have become comfortable carrying a label for life, instead of looking forward to the day when they are fully recovered. Christians need to do better than that.
1) Well I do have extensive personal experience. I was diagnosed with a self destructive form of OCD by a child psychologist in 1996, she gave me away to rid myself of the problem, and it worked!! Then between 2000-2003 I studied at degree level modular social sciences including Psychology, then in 2003 I developed reactive depression to some strange physical symptoms that were eventually described as a psycho-somatic anxiety disorder.
2) Psychologists CAN teach you coping strategies and stuff like that. its not all Freud or Medication you know
3) The thing about being in a depressive or anxious state (and I do not mean unhappy and stressed, I mean a state of mind which persists unchanged for months, every waking hour, for months, is that your not acting as you normally would. You are not in your normal frame of mind, its a completely different and increadibly scary mindset to be in. Even my memories of the time before the meds is...strange. Looking at it now, I cant understand the decisions I made at points, I cant understand why the same circumstances mean something different to me now, and how they could ever have meant what they did over that period of my life. When you are ill you are not functioning normally, people consider things that they would never otherwise consider, like suicide for example. I dont know if you could say they are completely responsible for their decisions. That is to say, they know the consequences of decisions...but for some reason, ideals that seem foolish to a healthy mind, suddenly seem obvious when in a state like that.
4) there is certainly a lot you can do on your own. For example, there was a gap of three months where the symptoms and the depression began to go away, before it returned and I ended on medication. But I was able to get a grasp of that because I had a safe environment, people who loved me, and I wasnt in work or in education. I could spend several months relaxing and calming myself down. Even then, the symptoms didnt dissapear completely...but when I began work in a new place, the slightest thing could set the whole problem off again...and it did...and the second time it was worse, because there was the added knowledge of the failure of that three months to change anything. I couldnt beat it on my own. So they can "help" but they do not cure or remove...and eventually the longevity of such an illness can develope to make it worse.
5) No they are not, both industries are doing fine.
6) Half the problem if I may be so bold is that if these people got help sooner, there would be so many sick. why do they avoid it? because, particularlly if they are male, its against Societal values to ask for help. Ever wondered WHY people end up on drugs in the first place?? Perhaps if they'd been given support early enough...perhaps if they'd asked for support...but all you do with that sorta statement is reinforce the stigma. For all you knowm, a manic depressive is lurking here, reading this...and thinks "he's right, im just being a hypercondriac, I just need a swift boot up the arse" and goes about his business rather then asking for the help he needs.
if you dont have personal experience you dont know what its like...you cant imagine something as hellish as mental ill health...it isnt a case of being glum, it isnt a case of not doing enough...I pray you never have to encounter it first hand...because if you do it would change your whole outlook on life.
7) what makes you think GOD will heal them??? What makes you think GOD isnt working through psychiatry and psychology?? Can GOD only work through the Church...is he limited to only helping Christians in a Fellowship group??
and what makes you so sure he's going to heal every ailment a GODfearing Christian has? Does he promise good health?? does he even promise happiness on earth??
You need to understand he is a King, that means he does what he wants, when he wants, as he wants it. If it pleases him to heal someone he will, if it pleases him rather to watch them grow through trail, or to help others by their example under a great burden...then he may never heal them. He promises eternal life after death...he doesnt promise good health or happiness....you shouldnt be leading people to ASSUME that GOD will automatically heal them to inspire them with hope...because you are NOT GOD, and he might not decide to honour YOUR plan. You may encourage and pray with/for them...but never tell someone that GOD will definately instantly heal them...you are not an Apostle, you are just a Disciple, GOD is not half as active as he was, and it will be a withdrawal that happens more and more as we head towards the Tribulation.
One thing I learned in strategic Studies...if a Land invasion fails against the enemy, then an Air Offensive might be the only way to ensure success...but before you can launch an air offensive you must withdraw your own troops from the ground and fight, lest you kill THEM aswell as the enemy. There are Scholars who believe that GOD is slowly over time withdrawing his Spirit from creation, ready for the final assult.