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-   -   Rickson on MMA vs. BJJ (http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9663)

VCURamFan 06-07-2012 09:42 PM

Rickson on MMA vs. BJJ
 
http://middleeasy.com/images/stories...06/rickson.jpg

Quote:

The Gracie Challenge was simple; come to our gym and fight us under vale tudo rules. If you think your martial art is better than BJJ then come over and test it against ours. It gets to the very crux of understanding evolutionary man; can I take him? Can I defend whatís mine against this dude? When your livelihood and reputation is based on a martial art, you better be able to back it up, and this is what the Gracies did. The foundation of the UFC was to display the dominance of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, remember. The gap between the vale tudo rules originally favoured by the Gracies and unified rules MMA is now so large that being a very good grappler is like owning a store specialising in only staplers. If someone across the road sells a larger variety of office supplies than you, youíre business isnít going to succeed. Weíve know that for a long time now, but there are still fighters coming into MMA thinking one discipline is enough. Still, Tatame asked Rickson Gracie if a pure BJJ player would do well in todayís MMA and he said:

Quote:

No, things have changed. Nowadays the rules impose a rhythm to the bout, conditioning and a game plan which imposes Jiu-Jitsu to have a determined shape... If you take off time and weight (limit) you might add some technique, game plan, conditioning and a way of thinking. From the moment itís a five-minute three-round fight, you spend some energy, lose 17 to 22lbs to fight and you have a high level training technology.
Rickson went on to say that in MMA you would only use about 30% of the BJJ you would learn in class. Considering BJJ is judo evolved and judo essentially evolved from ju-jutsu it only makes sense that BJJ could be made more efficient still when a striking opponent in brought into play. Iím not aware of a stand-alone grappling style that essentially takes the 30% of BJJ that Rickson thinks fighters use, but I do know Iíd like to see it. [source]

amills 06-11-2012 02:47 PM

HUH???

VCURamFan 06-11-2012 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amills (Post 192034)
HUH???

Haha, yeah, I dunno either. I've tried to read through it a few times, but I can't seem to keep the thread. :laugh:

rearnakedchoke 06-11-2012 03:05 PM

rickson is right .. mma has evolved to please the fans more than anything ... it is a spectator sport and therefore the rules/judging will continue to change to please the fans and not necessarily benefit the sport or determine who truly is the best combatant ..

PRShrek 06-11-2012 05:35 PM

He has a point in that guys today are training to win an MMA match rather than to win a fight, but Iím not sure thatís fundamentally different from the old four hour Helio JJ matches.

When I start my martial art, weíre going to sift crime data to find out what people actually need to be able to do to defend themselves and update the rules annually to keep it relevant to that need.

Of course that would only work for a recsport/amateur format; if you look at Judo or IPSC you can see that anytime you have an incentive to game the system, realism goes out the window.

amills 06-12-2012 04:43 PM

rules do make a difference. i would always get so frustrated with Pride when someone would be mounted or in side control and get half way through the ropes. the guy who worked to gain the dominant control would then have to fight around the ropes etc. also, no elbows on the ground and allowing head kicks to downed opponents gave a huge advantage to strikers IMO. I also get frustrated when a sub is about to happen and the horn sounds... back to standup for the next round. Just recently with Max Holloway and Pat Schilling that happened. Schililng pulled off a pretty dangerous looking knee bar at the end of the round. IMO if he had more time chances were high he would have tapped/damaged Holloway. He got absolutely manhandled on the feet for all the 15 min, but his BJJ moment could have ended the night under the old rules.

Lets be honest, though its' not a fight it's a business. I don't think anyone who is not a gracie wants to go back to shamrock/gracie type fights that last foreever and nothing really happens or wasn't it shamrock/severn that danced around and slapped at each other forever. (Shamrock has been involved in most of the worst fights in UFC history). Those fights were more "real." The Gracie's can keep doing that behind the scenes in their gym under their Vale Tudo if they want it just won't make any money.

rockdawg21 06-12-2012 08:46 PM

Quote:

Rickson went on to say that in MMA you would only use about 30% of the BJJ you would learn in class.
This is so true. We do BJJ most of the time with a gi and I constantly see moves that wouldn't work in MMA simply because the techniques require a gi to be accomplished. If you ask me, this is why wrestling is typically the dominant discipline in MMA because wrestling is literally controlling the person rather than controlling the clothing on the person.

Plus, you see it in the amateurs that even brown belts in BJJ get KTFO, aren't good at takedowns, holding the positions, etc. I think a lot of that is because they train with a gi instead of gi-less grappling all the time.

Bella79 06-12-2012 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdawg21 (Post 192141)
This is so true. We do BJJ most of the time with a gi and I constantly see moves that wouldn't work in MMA simply because the techniques require a gi to be accomplished. If you ask me, this is why wrestling is typically the dominant discipline in MMA because wrestling is literally controlling the person rather than controlling the clothing on the person.

Plus, you see it in the amateurs that even brown belts in BJJ get KTFO, aren't good at takedowns, holding the positions, etc. I think a lot of that is because they train with a gi instead of gi-less grappling all the time.

A good wrestling base >BJJ attempted TD's

PRShrek 06-12-2012 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdawg21 (Post 192141)
This is so true. We do BJJ most of the time with a gi and I constantly see moves that wouldn't work in MMA simply because the techniques require a gi to be accomplished. If you ask me, this is why wrestling is typically the dominant discipline in MMA because wrestling is literally controlling the person rather than controlling the clothing on the person.

Plus, you see it in the amateurs that even brown belts in BJJ get KTFO, aren't good at takedowns, holding the positions, etc. I think a lot of that is because they train with a gi instead of gi-less grappling all the time.

Thatís a good point. I remember starting to really notice the collars of people I saw throughout the day, thinking Ďyeah, I could choke that guy!í

rockdawg21 06-13-2012 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRShrek (Post 192144)
Thatís a good point. I remember starting to really notice the collars of people I saw throughout the day, thinking Ďyeah, I could choke that guy!í

I made that point to one of the brown belts here in TX that you don't see people around here walking around with winter coats, so why train so much with the gi? He disagreed with me, but he's one of those guys who's majorly gung-ho Relson Gracie BJJ. He's awesome, don't get me wrong, but I seriously doubt you're going to see any mostly BJJ schools make it far even in amateur MMA fights.


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