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Mark 01-17-2012 02:44 AM

Hoarders
 
My wife is watching Hoarders. Is it a sin to live in a dirty house? What about a house that is not kept clean?

MattHughesRocks 01-17-2012 03:28 AM

Hoarders is a show about people with severe mental issues. That isn't a sin. As far as living in a house that's dirty...like normal dirty...hummmm...I guess it's a sin if it could make someone sick? :unsure-1:

I'm pretty tidy and clean BTW :biggrin-1:

Bonnie 01-17-2012 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattHughesRocks (Post 183465)
Hoarders is a show about people with severe mental issues. That isn't a sin. As far as living in a house that's dirty...like normal dirty...hummmm...I guess it's a sin if it could make someone sick? :unsure-1:

I'm pretty tidy and clean BTW :biggrin-1:

:laugh:

I agree with Michelle, those people have some deep psychological issue (pain) that is manifesting itself in this awful way. I've watched a few of the shows, but find it hardgoing. :sad:

I don't think the hoarding in these cases is the sin, but when others offer help so they can get their lives and families back, and they refuse, maybe that's where sin comes in, I'm not sure. :unsure-1:

MattHughesRocks 01-17-2012 04:10 AM

Yeah, as much as I hate cats, I dont want to see them dragging those stiff dead ones out from behind the couch. Not to mention all the poop! :scared0011:
I'm going to be sick. I'm getting the heck outta this thread! :laugh:
GOD help us all!


Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnie (Post 183466)
:laugh:

I agree with Michelle, those people have some deep psychological issue (pain) that is manifesting itself in this awful way. I've watched a few of the shows, but find it hardgoing. :sad:


Bonnie 01-17-2012 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattHughesRocks (Post 183467)
Yeah, as much as I hate cats, I dont want to see them dragging those stiff dead ones out from behind the couch. Not to mention all the poop! :scared0011:
I'm going to be sick. I'm getting the heck outta this thread! :laugh:
GOD help us all!

Wait! :laugh: Are we talking about "pet hoarding"? I thought Mark was talking about the other hoarding show. :unsure-1:

You bringing up pet hoarding reminded me we didn't even talk about the health hazards involved in both of these types of hoarding! :scared0011: I just saw the preview of a new hoarding episode where the woman is cooking and roaches are crawling all over the pan! Horrible!

You're right, let's get out of here! :laugh:

flo 01-17-2012 04:37 AM

I watch the show too, it's unbelievable! I think the show last week with the people living in a mountain of roaches and discarded depends (or "integrities" for PTM ;-) was the worst thing I've ever seen.

Not all of these folks have mental issues, IMO; extreme hoarding *is* a compulsive/obsessive behavior but some of those people are content to live like pigs.

There are those on the other spectrum who are obsessively cleaning their homes and themselves. That would make a kind of boring show, though. :laugh:

I think it's a sin to put belongings ahead of family in one's priorities; this is the modus operandi with a great majority of these hoarders. Seeing what their compulsion is doing to their kids and spouses is heartbreaking. They also endanger their pet's health.

And there is that saying, after all..."Cleanliness is next to Godliness".

flo 01-17-2012 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnie (Post 183469)
Wait! :laugh: Are we talking about "pet hoarding"? I thought Mark was talking about the other hoarding show. :unsure-1:

Bonnie, in one of the recent "extreme hoarder" shows they highlighted a man who had too many cats as well as mountains of clutter. The cleaning folks and psychologists found more than a dozen dead cats when they started disposing of his junk. :cry:

MattHughesRocks 01-17-2012 06:27 AM

Regular hoarders have dead cats behind the couch too...and poop! :mellow:

Now I'm outta here for sure! :frantics:

:laugh::laugh::happy0198:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnie (Post 183469)
Wait! :laugh: Are we talking about "pet hoarding"? I thought Mark was talking about the other hoarding show. :unsure-1:

You bringing up pet hoarding reminded me we didn't even talk about the health hazards involved in both of these types of hoarding! :scared0011: I just saw the preview of a new hoarding episode where the woman is cooking and roaches are crawling all over the pan! Horrible!

You're right, let's get out of here! :laugh:


Play The Man 01-17-2012 07:50 AM

Traditionally, the seven deadly sins were: wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony. I could see having a dirty house come under the sin of sloth. Hoarding objects could come under the sin of greed. However, I agree with the others here that there is a significant component of mental illness in the extreme hoarders.

A few years ago, we had an elderly woman as a next-door neighbor. One evening, my wife thought she heard someone calling out and had me go next door to investigate. The elderly woman had fallen down in her doorway and couldn't get up. I went over and lifted her up and offered to call an ambulance. She declined. She had fallen in the doorway, so I was able to see in her house. The entire house was filled to a depth of 3 feet with trash, mostly newspapers. I was so shocked by what I saw, that I actually felt lightheaded, as if I was about to pass out. I didn't know the lady well. She was a grump and didn't talk to anyone. I prayed for her. The next day I approached her and said something to the effect that I take a load of recyclables to the dropoff every week and I would be happy to take loads of newspaper for her. She declined. We put out the word among the other little old ladies in the neighborhood that she was in a bad way and couldn't live like this any longer. Thankfully, some distant family came and cleared out her house and took her to a nursing home. The day before she left, she stopped by our house and gave us a box of cookies (they were wrapped in cellophane and had a current expiration date :wink:).

Conrad 01-17-2012 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark (Post 183463)
My wife is watching Hoarders. Is it a sin to live in a dirty house? What about a house that is not kept clean?

Yeah, I think he's referring to the non-pet kind, but there are emotional problems either way no doubt.

Back to the first question, is living in a dirty house sinful?

For good measure, a sin question boils down to a few things.
1) Honoring or glorifying God
2) Reflecting God's love and toward the people around you

(Wait, those just sounded familiar...:wink:)
Those kick a lot of doors open, which can be subjective.

Well, I imagine that there was a lot of dirt in Jesus' day, but that's like saying murder isn't wrong because it happened before. There are two kinds of dirty, filth and clutter/crowded. Between the two, apply the below as appropriate.

Now, some people link clutter to furthering depressive states, but that's iffy. Some folks get into collecting a specific thing, a neat and tidy hobby, but it's idolatry when it goes awry (such as the uncontrollable, drooling urgency to have every single thing with a certain celebrity's name on it...ahem. No I'm not confessing something, why do you ask!?!?). That's not the type of thing that gets on the hoarding show. Some folks on that show are responding to emotional wounds. If normal hobby collecting goes awry, then how others are treated by the hobbyist's clutter is a second sin.

What is sinful is more relational (boy, I hope Nate chimes in to clarify my following statements). A house will get dirty. Things accumulate "themselves." First, are you (hypothetical person) caring for the ones you love? Is letting it get a little dirty counter to the love one should have for another? That can be in many ways. Some is just consideration for one's spouse, such as doing the dishes immediately and not "later." (Just making up an example.) Has filth or clutter gone to the point of being a health hazard? This can happen in days in a kitchen. Does creating a biological or physical hazard care for one's kids lovingly? Do bruises build character? (Yes!!)

(On the other end of the spectrum, some places are so bleached clean that kids don't develop an immune system. Now we have epidemics of allergies. Someone once pointed out to me that the healthiest kids were the farm kids who got exposed to all the junk.) So, yeah, "clean" is good, but freaking out over it, city-slicker style, is its own idolatry. There's enough around to keep an immune system busy. We are lovingly not going to let the baby eat dog poop, but we're not godlessly freaking out to vacuum the carpet hourly while the kid crawls.

In the clean house example, love can be tidying up the junk and getting rid of it because your spouse doesn't like it, even if he/she is mostly ok living with it. Cleaning the filth is much like bathing your kids, because we need hygiene. Whatever you might apply to your (whoever) situation, you can demonstrate care, thus love, in ways others didn't realize they might appreciate. It's not the floor or the trash, it's the heart that does these things. Is there an opportunity to show love/care even if it's not demanded? Is doing the laundry voluntarily a bad idea because you'll just end up ruining her clothes??? So, a dirty house can be sinful, but how dirty and why depend on the people involved. Love is not merely putting up with others' peeves. "Oh, that's just dad. :rolleyes: "

I hope this throws some framework at the original question. Living in a dirty house can be sinful and the result of sins. Neglect is sinful where others are involved. Ever see a kid whose parents don't care for him?

Thanks for reading. (Got temped not to post cuz of length.)


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