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-   -   Could this explain Soddom and Gemorah (http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8831)

Tyburn 12-09-2011 08:41 PM

Could this explain Soddom and Gemorah
 
As you all know I have explained before about The Volcanic Eruption of Santorini, and how there has been a case in more recent times in areas surrounding waters close to such a large eruption, that the plagues described as occuring in Egypt seemed to re-occur...and how the filling of a massive caldera in the meditaranian might explain the momentary draining of the red sea.

So with Santorini out of the way...how is it possible to explain Soddom and Gemorah? Two cities surrounding a large inland ocean in the middle of a fertile plain that were somehow distroyed by fire from above?

There are no other Volcano to explain this one.

Then I discovered to my delight a case where an Asteroid distroyed a part of siberia WITHOUT causing a crator. Let me explain using an atomic bomb. If you have an atomic bomb there is two ways of using it, and they depend on WHERE you detonate.

Most people think of the US dropping an atom bomb on Hiroshima, and it blowing up on impact. This is not true. The Hiroshima Bomb never touched the ground. That is largely why the city could be rebuilt and lived in now and isnt like Chernobyl...or like the worry of Japans nuclear reactors.

The key is to detonate in the air ABOVE the target. The main support for this theory is what happens to the woman who turns back to view the distruction after being told not to. We do not know exactly what turn back means, but I would hazzard a guess that it meant to pause enough to be caught in the shock wave of a huge fireball above the twin cities. This shock wave had the power in Hiroshima to vaporize people leaving little pools of black dust.

Now bear in mind, that in the case of an asteroid breaking up, its like MANY nukes going off over the city at the same time, and thus able to effect people further away.

Here is a nice explaination of what happened in Siberia. I suspect this is how GOD chose to distroy Soddom and Gemorah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0Ko5w9GaXA

NateR 12-09-2011 10:21 PM

Sodom and Gomorrah, not Soddom and Gemorah. It's tough to take your theories seriously when you misspell your own subject matter.

Anyways, I believe what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah was simply a unique event that has no parallel in human history.

When Lot's wife turned back to look upon Sodom and Gomorrah, she was turned into a pillar of salt. She wasn't vaporized or burned into ashes, she became salt. The Hebrew word used for salt in that passage is "melah" and it has no other definitions - it only refers to salt, not ashes or dirt or vapor. That alone let's us know that this was an unprecedented event.

The hows and whys of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah aren't important. GOD's methods aren't important. All we need to understand is that GOD did it.

Tyburn 12-09-2011 10:49 PM

Your hostile reaction to everything I write is the major factor why I bearly post here at all now.

I dont despute what GOD did...but sometimes its nice to ask yourself how he might have done it...you know...its just curiosity really...its not like there is any other interesting debate in this section now...

Sorry I bothered.

Chris F 12-09-2011 10:56 PM

Dave there are a lot of people who hold to this very idea. In fact some researchers have gone out to disprove the bible they have actually showed how it is possible by nature itself. They can prove scientifically all 10 plagues etc etc. While I think that may be fine and dandy for them. I accept by faith it was as it was written in scripture. If God used natural causes well that is even better. Do not stop posting. Some of this stuff is very intriguing. Just be ready to defend or preface it (as you did here) as a simple what if. Not sure why NateR went off like that. You would have thought you were Buzzard there will all that malice. Maybe he is having a bad day. :)

Tyburn 12-09-2011 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris F (Post 180147)
Dave there are a lot of people who hold to this very idea. In fact some researchers have gone out to disprove the bible they have actually showed how it is possible by nature itself. They can prove scientifically all 10 plagues etc etc. While I think that may be fine and dandy for them. I accept by faith it was as it was written in scripture. If God used natural causes well that is even better. Do not stop posting. Some of this stuff is very intriguing. Just be ready to defend or preface it (as you did here) as a simple what if. Not sure why NateR went off like that. You would have thought you were Buzzard there will all that malice. Maybe he is having a bad day. :)

There is a wild theory from most Christians that everything GOD does has to somehow be miraculous and unexplicable...like he somehow hates to use the tools of his creation...or as if just for Christians he performed a magic trick.

One of the lessons I learned in the Spring of 2010 was to seek GOD in the Ordinary as well as the mystical. We love to celebrate him at Christmas and Easter...as if his Incarnation and Ressurection are the only thing worth mentioning.

But thats not true...GOD doesnt always do things you can ONLY take on Faith. He created the Earth, he designed natural processes, and he governs the laws that you see all around you. Those are equally as impressive. Some Christians fear that by trying to say HOW GOD did it, you are somewhat likely to reduce GOD...but this is silly...even if it were proven that a Tungaska style even took place to obliterate cities...just pointing that out doesnt take away the glory of what was done...unless of course you claim that because you know how GOD did it you could do it yourself....

Do I look like im about to tell you that I can command Asteroids to blow up above cities and distroy them...or like I can control Santorini and make her erupt at my Behest?

Did I EVER claim that GOD was absent in any of these processes? The thing is that GOD is such a part of my life I shouldnt need to spell out for people like Nathan who are not convinced I believe at all, that obviously GOD did this....I dont think you all realize that every day things happen to me that I attribute to GODs will...Even my Father...an Ordained Priest...didnt see the connection when I asked him over a week ago if he realized that our signing on the mortgage for the new house would occure on the first day of Advent (following Advent Sunday) I asked him if he understood the parallel between planning for a move, a new start, and new begining, a time of preparation, and the fact we were going into Advent.

You have to keep your eyes open and realize that GOD works more in the humdrum and the ordinary then he does in the fantastical...unless you want to disbelieve in a personal GOD...go right ahead...but my GOD has no quarms in using nature or his own temporal laws to make things happen...and I dont think he minds how much I speculate on what exciting ways he might have used.

It doesnt matter...nothing matters...but to dwell on that would be to waste the opportunity of this forum. I used to post all sorts like this here...I used to run to share with my forum friends new thoughts and ideas...but people dont like that...and worse...people think I am trying to convince them of something...when I dont care if they listen or aggree...look at the first line of Nathans response...It assumes that I want people to believe what I say as fact...and how riddiculous that is when I cant spell it right....firstly...I was never one for spelling...secondly...I'm not here to win a war or start a fight...I was just putting something I had heard and thought was interesting...and within three posts I am remembering why thats not a good idea.

After all...havent you heard, I only post meaningless and useless bits of information that noone would care about...despite the fact some of those threads...like my King and Queens thread has is one of the most viewed on the entire forum. But again...the person who said that thinks I care what other think...and largely I dont. If noone looks at my blog thread, or my video links, or my interesting historical blah...its not going to keep me up at night...but someone pointing that out deliberatley to upset me...doesnt make me want to start anymore threads of that kind, lets put it that way.

NateR 12-10-2011 02:57 AM

I have no problem with finding ways to explain the miracles of the Bible using natural circumstances. However, not from people who clearly do not have respect for the source material. The very fact that you continually misspelled Sodom and Gomorrah indicates that you never bothered to even reread the Biblical text before concocting your little theory here.

If you would stop putting our human understanding of science and the intelligence of men above the Word of GOD, then I might be more interested in engaging in these discussions. We don't need to force the Bible to conform to our incomplete and flawed understanding of the universe. Our understanding of the universe needs to conform to the Bible.

Crisco 12-10-2011 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NateR (Post 180160)
I have no problem with finding ways to explain the miracles of the Bible using natural circumstances. However, not from people who clearly do not have respect for the source material. The very fact that you continually misspelled Sodom and Gomorrah indicates that you never bothered to even reread the Biblical text before concocting your little theory here.

If you would stop putting our human understanding of science and the intelligence of men above the Word of GOD, then I might be more interested in engaging in these discussions. We don't need to force the Bible to conform to our incomplete and flawed understanding of the universe. Our understanding of the universe needs to conform to the Bible.

Dave's inability to spell is news?

Harsh here buddy.

Good points Dave. God doesn't always work in the unexplainable. I think people finding the scientific reasons for the plagues to try and disprove God is a stupid concept... They are just confirming the unlikeliness of the events to all occur without his intervention.

People hate God because they hate their sins... They'll do anything to escape him no matter how futile.

Tyburn 12-10-2011 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NateR (Post 180160)
I have no problem with finding ways to explain the miracles of the Bible using natural circumstances. However, not from people who clearly do not have respect for the source material. The very fact that you continually misspelled Sodom and Gomorrah indicates that you never bothered to even reread the Biblical text before concocting your little theory here.

If you would stop putting our human understanding of science and the intelligence of men above the Word of GOD, then I might be more interested in engaging in these discussions. We don't need to force the Bible to conform to our incomplete and flawed understanding of the universe. Our understanding of the universe needs to conform to the Bible.

I havent concocted anything, simply repeated what I heard....and I dont wish you to "be more interested in engaging in these discussions" I wish you rather to act in accordance and appropriately with your position on this website which is counter to alienating and/or ignoring your moderators, lest to put them down and generally do you upmost to publically humiliate them.

As for respect for source material. I'd ask you to evaluate the first contact you've had with me in months in this thread, and to consider whether if one judged you by your fruits, you would seem to be at all in line with Christian brotherhood, love for ones neighbour, or charity.

Perhaps its best if you just leave me to my threads full of meaningless trivia and only comment on more hardcore Christian posters instead. That would suit me fine. I am not looking for your specific input. Neither do I see my threads as a fail if the Great Nathan Rosario doesnt grace it with a passing comment of disdain.

NateR 12-10-2011 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyburn (Post 180140)

I watched the whole video and the only thing that the scientists know for sure about the Tunguska explosion is that nobody knows for sure what really happened. The theories include an asteroid, a comet, an exploding UFO, ball lightning, an extraterrestrial nuclear bomb, even a swarm of mosquitos - or some combination of any of those.

So you could almost say that the details of the Tunguska explosion are just as much a mystery as the details of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Here is the passage from Genesis 19: 12-29
12 Then the men said to Lot, “Have you anyone else here? Son-in-law, your sons, your daughters, and whomever you have in the city—take them out of this place! 13 For we will destroy this place, because the outcry against them has grown great before the face of the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it.”
14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who had married his daughters, and said, “Get up, get out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city!” But to his sons-in-law he seemed to be joking.
15 When the morning dawned, the angels urged Lot to hurry, saying, “Arise, take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be consumed in the punishment of the city.” 16 And while he lingered, the men took hold of his hand, his wife’s hand, and the hands of his two daughters, the LORD being merciful to him, and they brought him out and set him outside the city. 17 So it came to pass, when they had brought them outside, that he said, “Escape for your life! Do not look behind you nor stay anywhere in the plain. Escape to the mountains, lest you be destroyed.”
18 Then Lot said to them, “Please, no, my lords! 19 Indeed now, your servant has found favor in your sight, and you have increased your mercy which you have shown me by saving my life; but I cannot escape to the mountains, lest some evil overtake me and I die. 20 See now, this city is near enough to flee to, and it is a little one; please let me escape there (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.”
21 And he said to him, “See, I have favored you concerning this thing also, in that I will not overthrow this city for which you have spoken. 22 Hurry, escape there. For I cannot do anything until you arrive there.”
Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23 The sun had risen upon the earth when Lot entered Zoar. 24 Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens. 25 So He overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground.
26 But his wife looked back behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
27 And Abraham went early in the morning to the place where he had stood before the LORD. 28 Then he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain; and he saw, and behold, the smoke of the land which went up like the smoke of a furnace. 29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when He overthrew the cities in which Lot had dwelt.

Again, Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt when she looked back on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Are there any reports from the native tribes in the area of people or reindeer being turned into salt? Are there an inordinate amount of salt deposits on the outskirts of the blast zone?

Also, the quote from the angel "For I cannot do anything until you arrive there." So, was the angel going to simply pause the asteroid/meteorite/comet in mid-air until Lot made it to the city that doesn't seem like he originally planned to spare? That (along with shielding this small city from the blast) would require just as much of a miracle as simply sticking with the Bible's description of GOD raining down brimstone and fire on the cities.

I'll say it again, I have no problem with finding natural explanations for the miracles in the Bible, but I do have a problem with twisting or distorting the Biblical accounts to fit our limited understanding of the universe and the laws of physics.

Tyburn 12-10-2011 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NateR (Post 180175)
I watched the whole video and the only thing that the scientists know for sure about the Tunguska explosion is that nobody knows for sure what really happened. The theories include an asteroid, a comet, an exploding UFO, ball lightning, an extraterrestrial nuclear bomb, even a swarm of mosquitos - or some combination of any of those.

So you could almost say that the details of the Tunguska explosion are just as much a mystery as the details of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt when she looked back on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Are there any reports from the native tribes in the area of people or reindeer being turned into salt? Are there an inordinate amount of salt deposits on the outskirts of the blast zone?

Also, the quote from the angel "For I cannot do anything until you arrive there." So, was the angel going to simply pause the asteroid/meteorite/comet in mid-air until Lot made it to the city that doesn't seem like he originally planned to spare? That (along with shielding this small city from the blast) would require just as much of a miracle as simply sticking with the Bible's description of GOD raining down brimstone and fire on the cities.

Now had you just posted that as a response originally...We could have had a mature adult debate...but it takes me to accuse you of being inapropriate before you act in a reasonable manner. Its such a pity because all you do is ruin what could have been a lively and exciting debate.

I wont bother expounding on the questions you pose lest I incure yet more of your Holier-then-thou wrath. :sad:


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