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-   -   Free will - God chooses us, not the other way around (http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7300)

Vizion 03-20-2011 12:03 AM

Free will - God chooses us, not the other way around
 
We choose to follow God when He calls us, or not. But I was listening to a preacher cite verse after verse in scripture about how God chooses us before we choose Him.

I never knew that, but find that interesting. Jesus chose His disciples, not the other way around.

Anyone have any insight?

Chris F 03-20-2011 06:17 AM

God chooses us because he knows who and who will not accept the free gift. But ultimatily we must have a free will or else one would have ot say God created people doomed ot hell and Jesus' sacrafice was not for all but only those God chose and the rest he chose to send to hell. Because God is soverign he already knows but he is not a puppet master and makes no man follow him who does not want to. I have heard it preach many ways from both sides and it is an issue one is better to make their own personal election sure by living a righteous life and let God decide the result.

Tyburn 03-20-2011 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris F (Post 158624)
God chooses us because he knows who and who will not accept the free gift. But ultimatily we must have a free will or else one would have ot say God created people doomed ot hell and Jesus' sacrafice was not for all but only those God chose and the rest he chose to send to hell. Because God is soverign he already knows but he is not a puppet master and makes no man follow him who does not want to. I have heard it preach many ways from both sides and it is an issue one is better to make their own personal election sure by living a righteous life and let God decide the result.

:blink: I thought you were a believer in TULIP :laugh:

Basically I aggree. GOD Knows who makes it and who doesnt, prior to it all. BUT GOD allows those people to either take up or reject the gift, and thus choose for themself

Thats the ballence I reckon...with some slight exceptions...Mary was probably an exception...the Disciples were probably Exceptions...Judus was possibly supernaturally forced into betrayal...because Jesus HAD to end up dead in order to ressurect....

But other then those...and maybe some prophets...I certainly wouldnt use predestiny as a guiding principle in general (if you pardon the pun :laugh: )

Jonlion 03-20-2011 10:55 PM

Done a weekend away with church on predestination.

Very very complicated to get my head around - God controls everything and he chooses us but we also have that free will to reject or accept him. But if he is coming for you - he changes your heart to accept him.


He is no puppet master.

Been in john 13-14 and it does make me feel for Judas - same for Pilate and the chief preist. They had to do it to fulfil the Lords divine plan. It throws me but then you see before Judas betrays Jesus that his heart wants to steal the money as well so perhaps he was evil anyway.

Tricky stuff but certainly nothing to make one waiver from faith - just an interesting one to wrestle with.

God is sovereign.

Vizion 03-21-2011 03:58 AM

How do I know I am Elect?
 
When people first begin to learn about the biblical doctrine of election, one question that often occurs to them is, “Am I elect?” And the more they think about whether or not they are elect, the more uncertain they become. So, if you believe in the doctrine of election, how do you know if you are elect?

The answer is really quite simple: You continue believing in Christ.

“But,” you reply, “you didn’t answer my question. I want to know if I am elect.”

So I will ask:

* Do you believe that you have offended the all-holy Creator (Rom. 3:10�18; Ps. 51:1�4)?
* Do you believe that your sins cry out to heaven itself for justice, and that you deserve to perish under the wrath of the God you have offended by your sins (Isa. 59:2�3; Ezek. 18:4)?
* Do you believe that you are, in fact, dead in your sins and unable to make yourself alive (Eph. 2:1�3; Rom. 8:5�8)?
* Do you believe that nothing you could ever do�no good deeds, no mighty acts of faith, no church attendance, no niceness of character�will ever be sufficient to appease the wrath of your holy Creator against your sins (Mic. 6:6�7; Isa. 59:12�14)?
* Do you believe that God, the God you have offended by your sins, has himself provided the way of escape through his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ (Titus 3:5�7; Col. 2:13)?
* Have you been united to Christ by faith, a faith you did not earn, but received as a gift from God? Do you believe that, having been savingly joined by faith to the Son of God, your sins are finally and fully paid for, and that you are forgiven and declared righteous, as though you had never sinned (Gal. 2:16, 20; Rom. 8:1�4)?
* Do you believe that, by the grace of God, having turned from your sins and turned to the Son of God to pay for your sins and to give you his own righteousness, you will be received by God as his own dear child, to be loved and blessed by him throughout eternity�that is,