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-   -   It's flammable thread sunday!!! (http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7022)

adamt 02-20-2011 12:46 PM

It's flammable thread sunday!!!
 
I hear people constantly quote Matthem 7:1, christians and non christians alike. It is a cliche verse anymore. Most of you know it as soon as i say it....

Judge not that ye be not judged.....

then we stop there. Why? I'll tell you why, because that is the part that suits our needs most. Like pulling a bart simposon and quoting "Do unto others" When we only quote the first half of the verse we can say that verse means not to condemn anyone else. But people really should read the whole chapter....


1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes




okay i highlighted some portions that i thought were interesting....

I don't know any biblical languages but it seems to me the way Jesus was using judge is not how we take it to mean today. Cause Jesus clearly goes on to tell us that we can take the mote out of our brother's eye if we take the ones out of ours first, (granted He also said there was no point cause they're probably just pigs that won't appreciate Godly counsel or wisdom)

Also He goes on to tell us basically we HAVE to judge others, lest we be decieved and then tells us how to "judge" them, so how is it wrong to :judge" people?

I cringe every time I hear someone quote Matt 7:1, it is so misquoted

i think matt 7 means just the opposite of what most people believe

the underlined portion is very alarming as well... to say many "Christians" will findf out they weren't christians at all, but just fooling themselves

KENTUCKYREDBONE 02-20-2011 06:56 PM

Alot of Folks use that Scripture wrongly! I think they use it wrongly on purpose. I had somebody throw that Scripture out in a discussion on Homosexuality. I told them I wasn't judging but I was saying that engaging in Homosexual behavior was wrong. I never said they could not be saved. I did and still say that behavior is morally wrong and should not be endorsed in any way shape or form. I do not see where pointing out wrong behavior is judging! Judge not means we don't get to decide who can and can't be saved. Only God gets to decide that! Now I do want to say that we should not be mean to the sinner though. That could hinder them in getting delivered from their sin!

Neezar 02-20-2011 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KENTUCKYREDBONE (Post 153406)
Alot of Folks use that Scripture wrongly! I think they use it wrongly on purpose. I had somebody throw that Scripture out in a discussion on Homosexuality. I told them I wasn't judging but I was saying that engaging in Homosexual behavior was wrong. I never said they could not be saved. I did and still say that behavior is morally wrong and should not be endorsed in any way shape or form. I do not see where pointing out wrong behavior is judging! Judge not means we don't get to decide who can and can't be saved. Only God gets to decide that! Now I do want to say that we should not be mean to the sinner though. That could hinder them in getting delivered from their sin!

Exactly! And pointing out sin is not condemning someone or saying that they will not recieve salvation.

We can (and are commanded to) judge actions as to what may or may not be sin. We are only commanded not to judge someone's salvation.

Dethbob 02-21-2011 12:52 PM

Is it judgmental to judge someone for judging?

Is judging for hypocrisy OK?

Tyburn 02-21-2011 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dethbob (Post 153475)
Is it judgmental to judge someone for judging?

Is judging for hypocrisy OK?

When GOD talks about Judging Others...he doesnt mean Judge like a court with punishment to hurt others...he means that we must ask for the Spirit of Discernment...the ability to know and understand what someone is saying, and then to match that up to a set of criteria in the Bible...that way we cant be deceived.

Discernment is a Spiritual Gift, not to unrelated to the Gift of Interpretation of Tongues. Neither are really valued by the Church...which is why Christians usually end up Rebuking (even if Righteously) rather then Discerning, and then Prophesizing.

Discernment is the link between Tongues and Prophecy. Its half way to receiving Revelation from GOD...which is what Prophecy is...a private revelation between GOD and an individual...which usually places the individual in the unfortunate situation of having to feedback messages to the people and authorities that they do not want to hear....or doing something that will serve the people who are attentive symbolically as a warning. Note...the Judgement comes not from the Prophet but from the Lord...the Prophet is basically acting as a Human Host...A messenger for GOD...just like a Heavenly Host will do.

Except...usually the Heavenly Host get to bring good messages...and the Prophets end up in fear of their lives for reminding people of influence that GOD is watching them.

Once the gift of Prophecy is given...its a learned skill. In the olden days, Prophets used to set up schools. A lot like Mixed Martial Arts Gyms...they would be followed around by their Students and their students would learn how to meditate and how to use their power of discernment to advance GODs Kingdom....the Prophets kinda dissapeared just prior to Christ in Chronology...in Christendom they continued under the now defunct sub-denomination of Roman Catholicism known as The Mystic Contemplatives. Meanwhile the ideas of having a school to teach people how to be "wise" or "learned" or "scholarly" also developed under the Monastic foundations. The Classics took these ideas and they secularized them...thats why you get Philosophers like Aristotle, and Socreties with massive Schools of Philosophy where people come to learn and they are known as "disciples" of their discipline. Meanwhile in the Orient, the same schooling idea appeared but was used to teach other Religious beliefs, Usually Taoism, or Bhudism, or some form of Martial Art...eventually that split to either strictly religious...or as part of a Caste System...like The Samurai for example...who were not just in schools...but actually were a class of society in which people could be born into, and under which certain occupations were expected...usually service in the military or politics before they were so successful they (a lot like the Knights Templar) were disbanded and destroyed to save face with Royalty and Religious Authorites.

CAVEMAN 02-21-2011 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamt (Post 153388)
I hear people constantly quote Matthem 7:1, christians and non christians alike. It is a cliche verse anymore. Most of you know it as soon as i say it....

Judge not that ye be not judged.....

then we stop there. Why? I'll tell you why, because that is the part that suits our needs most. Like pulling a bart simposon and quoting "Do unto others" When we only quote the first half of the verse we can say that verse means not to condemn anyone else. But people really should read the whole chapter....


1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes




okay i highlighted some portions that i thought were interesting....

I don't know any biblical languages but it seems to me the way Jesus was using judge is not how we take it to mean today. Cause Jesus clearly goes on to tell us that we can take the mote out of our brother's eye if we take the ones out of ours first, (granted He also said there was no point cause they're probably just pigs that won't appreciate Godly counsel or wisdom)

Also He goes on to tell us basically we HAVE to judge others, lest we be decieved and then tells us how to "judge" them, so how is it wrong to :judge" people?

I cringe every time I hear someone quote Matt 7:1, it is so misquoted

i think matt 7 means just the opposite of what most people believe

the underlined portion is very alarming as well... to say many "Christians" will findf out they weren't christians at all, but just fooling themselves

Very good points! Plus, any time someone throws that verse out, AND usuallly it is an unbeliever, I quote 1 Corinthians 2: 15.

bradwright 02-21-2011 04:49 PM

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.



the only reason i am making a comment is because you highlighted this.

this tells me if you are without sin you may judge other peoples sins.

but we all know God is the only one without sin.

i may be wrong in my interpretation but i dont think so.

adamt 02-21-2011 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradwright (Post 153529)
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.



the only reason i am making a comment is because you highlighted this.

this tells me if you are without sin you may judge other peoples sins.

but we all know God is the only one without sin.

i may be wrong in my interpretation but i dont think so.



maybe he is referring to a particular sin and not all sin as a whole.... what do you think?

but also remember that we christians also believe we are without sin as a whole once Christ forgives us

bradwright 02-21-2011 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamt (Post 153542)
maybe he is referring to a particular sin and not all sin as a whole.... what do you think?

but also remember that we christians also believe we are without sin as a whole once Christ forgives us

i really dont know if thats what he is referring to thats why i commented on it.

but dont you constantly ask for forgiveness for sins you commit ?

Jonlion 02-21-2011 08:37 PM

Are we not warned though not to judge say like the Pharisees?

So I agree with what you are saying but I don't walk around saying I'm righteous and therefore someone who isn't as Godly as me deserves death. Because I deserve it too.

I'm not saying you are saying that but I think its a fine line.


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