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-   -   The UFC have a big name to cut from last night... (http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10230)

Tyburn 02-24-2013 11:10 AM

The UFC have a big name to cut from last night...
 
So now lets stand back and watch as the UFC tries to justify keeping Josh Koscheck on the books. Having lost three of his past five fights....two losses in a row (which we know they have used to get rid of others)

This is their test. If they fail to dismiss Josh Koscheck, then it goes to show, they arent clearing the roster for the elite...but simply saving their favourites at the expense of true hard working fighters....does anyone dissagree :huh:

We all know what would have befallen Robbie Lawler had the result been the other way round, dont we.

I cant wait for the announcement and uproar this is going to cause when they announce a cut list which penalizes...I dont know, Anton Kuivanen, Ivan Menjivar....and fails to mention Josh Koscheck. :laugh:

It will be point proven.

Now if on the other hand, the UFC actually do have the balls to dispose of Koscheck...then we can be assured that noone, truely, noone is safe...(Except Dan Hardy, Leonard Garcia, and probably Mac Danzig....as those names have pretty much been told to journalists as a safe list despite their records lol)

adamt 02-24-2013 12:02 PM

it is still about who sells tickets, losses aren't everything,

an exciting loss is better than a fitch win, i am no koscheck fan, but i like seeing him get beat, and i do actually expect him to put up a decent fight most of the time, the ufc would be stupid to let him go and let someone else pick him up, kos will fight twice a year and do his part to hype a fight,

i hate him, i want him to fail, but business is business, and kos hasn't quite earned a pink slip yet, i hope the ufc uses him up and don't let him go till he is worthless,

i also highly doubt robbie would have been cut with a loss, robbie has a pretty decent following and record of exciting fights

just my 2 cents, i hear where you coming from, but just see the other side of the coin too

kevint13 02-24-2013 03:13 PM

I could see them cutting him, but I could see them keeping him. Like Fitch, Kos is an expensive fighter to have on the roster that is falling farther down the rankings. But he has a fan base and also a group that absolutely hates him and will pay to see him fight.

His record is 1-2 in his last two fights, however the win and one of losses were both controversial split decisions.

I don't want to have the previous discussion in here, but you have to distinguish MMA the sport and UFC the business. Based on record he should probably be let go, but based on what he has to offer the UFC he will likely stay for at least one more fight.

Tyburn 02-24-2013 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamt (Post 198546)
1)it is still about who sells tickets, losses aren't everything,

2) an exciting loss is better than a fitch win, i am no koscheck fan, but i like seeing him get beat, and i do actually expect him to put up a decent fight most of the time, the ufc would be stupid to let him go and let someone else pick him up, kos will fight twice a year and do his part to hype a fight,

3) i hate him, i want him to fail, but business is business, and kos hasn't quite earned a pink slip yet, i hope the ufc uses him up and don't let him go till he is worthless,

4) i also highly doubt robbie would have been cut with a loss, robbie has a pretty decent following and record of exciting fights

just my 2 cents, i hear where you coming from, but just see the other side of the coin too

1) With Koscheck...I think its still all about The Ultimate Fighter...but nevermind :laugh:

2) Koscheck cant beat Number One Contenders...Thiago Alves, a fail, johny Hendricks, a Fail....and he cant win a contendership himself...GSP, a Fail.

What use is he to an insitution if he's going to be just a gatekeeper? a way of telling who the contenders are...because its like we cant see them til they fell him anyway :laugh:

3) He has more then merited a cut...if the UFC are prepared to cut people on two losses in a row. People who are equally as exciting, but simply less well known.

From a pure business perspective...I'm afraid to say That Josh Koscheck is almost entirely worthless now. He will never be champion, and appears to be on his way down.

Even I was suprised at what Lawler did. I am not immune to thinking that because someone is a mainstay they are always going to take a hefty amount to be beaten. I even said in my predictions video that I thought that Koscheck would have the upper hand the majority of the time, but that Lawler would be able to find a way to win at a push...Well Koscheck was no Manhoef was he.

The only appeasement required is Josh Koschecks head...and its over due now...and the UFC MUST after last night recognise that. They threatened Urijah Faber because he could win EVERY FIGHT EXCEPT for a Championship Match....but Josh Koscheck...he can get his head pummelled by a man they WOULD cast aside had he lost...and get diplomatic immunity??

Will he join the Golden Fails, on the bench of invincibility....Will he take his seat alongside Dan Hardy, Leonard Garcia, and Mac Danzig...or will the UFC take the sword and spill the blood they promised last week.

4) Its never been unusual for the UFC to get rid of a flop on the first night...the stable is so bloated, I bet they arent actually taking on new people without a win...although personally, I'd love for them to spare that Kuivanen chap :ninja:

Tyburn 02-24-2013 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevint13 (Post 198548)
I could see them cutting him, but I could see them keeping him. Like Fitch, Kos is an expensive fighter to have on the roster that is falling farther down the rankings. But he has a fan base and also a group that absolutely hates him and will pay to see him fight.

His record is 1-2 in his last two fights, however the win and one of losses were both controversial split decisions.

I don't want to have the previous discussion in here, but you have to distinguish MMA the sport and UFC the business. Based on record he should probably be let go, but based on what he has to offer the UFC he will likely stay for at least one more fight.

One Rule for One person...another Rule for another person :huh:

If they are serious about what they said...they MUST act....if they dont, then its proof that what they are doing is protecting people they like, and getting rid of people they dont like.

You Supported Max in what he said about those guys being cut because they were not top contenders, and possibily (though he assumed probably) never would be. Will Josh Koscheck ever be Champion? I'd say there is a 90 percent Chance that Josh Koscheck will NEVER be a UFC Champion. What does he have to offer them? His mouth? His smack? Is this about fighting...or about talking? fine if you can back your mouth up with your fists...but the only fists backing anything up...were Lawlers against Koschecks head.

Applying the same logic that got the bag o brits sacked...Josh Koscheck must go also.


But...your right...they wont release him....and the descrepancy is what I find unfair, and why we have laws here to force insitutions to have standard practises that THEY can not diviate from. I knew it wouldnt take long for the UFC to prove my point entirely...I never expected it within the week.

They know what they must do if they want to show they are legitamate...noone will be fooled by them if they choose any other path. :)

kevint13 02-24-2013 07:52 PM

Quote:

One Rule for One person...another Rule for another person :huh:
It looks that way, but there isn't a rule at all. They do what they want without any guidelines, hence why you are upset. If they had structure in how they cut people we wouldn't be talking about it.

Quote:

If they are serious about what they said...they MUST act....if they dont, then its proof that what they are doing is protecting people they like, and getting rid of people they dont like.
I read more into the "be exciting and fight you a$$ off" than "if you lost x in a row you are gone".

I hate to even defend Kos, but he is in a way that "company man". He stepped in on short notice to fight Hughes and has offered to do that on several occasions. I am sure that these actions sit well with the company.

Quote:

You Supported Max in what he said about those guys being cut because they were not top contenders, and possibily (though he assumed probably) never would be. Will Josh Koscheck ever be Champion? I'd say there is a 90 percent Chance that Josh Koscheck will NEVER be a UFC Champion. What does he have to offer them? His mouth? His smack? Is this about fighting...or about talking? fine if you can back your mouth up with your fists...but the only fists backing anything up...were Lawlers against Koschecks head.
I did support Max, but I am not about to make it a guideline for every instance. By your logic, lets look at some guys that are on losing streaks that should be gone:

- Rashad Evans - lost last 2, likely not going to be champ again.
- Rich Franklin - 2-2 in last 4, likely not going to be champ again.
- Wanderlei Silva - 2-2 in last 4, likely not going to be champ.
- BJ Penn - 1-2-1 in last 4, likely will not be champ again.

Should these guys still be in the UFC based on their last few fights? They all should stay because they are well known names and people want to see them fight.

Quote:

Applying the same logic that got the bag o brits sacked...Josh Koscheck must go also.


But...your right...they wont release him....and the descrepancy is what I find unfair, and why we have laws here to force insitutions to have standard practises that THEY can not diviate from. I knew it wouldnt take long for the UFC to prove my point entirely...I never expected it within the week.

They know what they must do if they want to show they are legitamate...noone will be fooled by them if they choose any other path. :)
What they have to decide is if the amount of money they have to pay Koscheck is worth it compared to what he does for them. And I would believe that he does still have some value.

Let me ask you this Dave and this is not trying to take a shot at your favorite fighter. Do you think Zuffa, as a whole, treated Jens well? They allowed him to stay around and lose 5 fights in a row without releasing him.

flo 02-24-2013 07:55 PM

I'm experiencing deja vu. Just sayin'... :laugh:

Well, if that's the protocol for firing (3 consecutive losses) then Josh Neer will be gone as well. But the UFC is a business, if Kos will bring in the fans, he will stay. It's not black and white and private businesses are not necessarily democratic (thank goodness!). Owners are still flexible in policy and allowed to make their own decisions.

kevint13 02-24-2013 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flo (Post 198554)
I'm experiencing deja vu. Just sayin'... :laugh:

Well, if that's the protocol for firing (3 consecutive losses) then Josh Neer will be gone as well. But the UFC is a business, if Kos will bring in the fans, he will stay. It's not black and white and private businesses are not necessarily democratic (thank goodness!). Owners are still flexible to make their own decisions.

It's groundhog day, right? :laugh:

Liddellfan 02-24-2013 10:34 PM

This is America. When you own a business and pay the bills, you can run it the way YOU want.

Tyburn 02-24-2013 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liddellfan (Post 198559)
This is America. When you own a business and pay the bills, you can run it the way YOU want.

I thought America was about Freedoms and Rights for all men (including those employed) and a land where all men were created equal (Including those who run multimillion pound companies) with a people that believed in Democrasy (to hold those liable to produce Tyrany if left unchecked to account) and the abolition of autocratic mechanisms (like At Will Employers, and a lack of Unions) in order that justice (like having one rule for all, rather then so many execeptions you have two rules) and peace prevail.

:laugh:


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