US Threatens England over EU Referendum!
its funny...because the Prime Minister is going to Europe at the end of the month, and people really believe he is going to lay down an alternate vision for the continent.
It is speculated that he will tell all in the Union that he intends on giving a Referendum to the British Public with an In/Out vote to remaining part of the European Union.
This is one of the very hot topics in the country at present...hot enough that many people who wouldnt usually vote have said that on the case of leaving Europe they definately would.
Its Strange that the Prime Minister has not even made the speech yet, and TWO prominent Countries have already asserted their opinions on it. Both Countries are evidently frightened that giving the public a democratic vote on Europe will lead to the truth...that most British people do no want to be part of a Federal State system in Europe. Both Countries have actually told David Cameron NOT to let the public decide.
I suppose thats expected from Germany, who sent a delegation telling the Prime Minister that it would be a shame if England was isolated. Of Course, Germany stands to miss our increadible money which flows into their coffers being part of the Union. We are a HUGE contributor...the loss of funds would be sore missed.
However, how shocking it is that our "special friends" would not only want to see us stuck in a left wing socialistic federation that THEY would not tollerate, but actually think our Government should completely ignore its people, and not even give us the opportunity to voice our Opinion...because, evidently those "GOD-Given Rights" enjoyed by Americans, are not to be applied to others...not even friends...infact...Washington made clear that we would looose our "special friends" status if we decided to pull out of Europe.
Here is the truth...in 2003 the American Administration alienated Europeans so much (those members of course duplicated in the United Nations) that relations between Europe and America only seem to go through England...Just one of the ways we act like one of your bondaged States, doing your buisness...anyone would think we were the US ambassidor to Europe?
The Americans want "A strong british voice in brussels" because its THEIR Voice. If England pulls out, America would have to deal with these Europeans directly...and its difficult dealing with people who wont jump at your trumped up Federations beck and call isnt it.
Just another reason to despise Barack Obama I suppose...The thing is...I dont think that David Cameron will faulter here...because even his coillition partners think he shouldnt ask the public, and he's completely blanking them...if he's blanking the deputy prime minister over europe...I think the President of the United States of America, and The German Chancellor of Europe shouldnt be too hard to ignore either.
But this will be a tough challenge for him. England, under his leadership, have finally dared to stand up to this growing union of Europe...but the true test, when push comes to shove...will our prime minister do what is right for England, even if it means saying NO to the Americans...If he wants to show that the days of being the US Foreign Office for the past decade is over...thats what he must do.
I hope I havent offended anyone here...but lets be absolutely straight...the President of the United States has NO Jurisdiction in this Realm of England. He does NOT have the right to make demands of our Government, particularly those that fly AGAINST everything his own ethos stands for....You dont find the British Prime Minister speaking about what America must or must not do, or else we wont be your special friends anymore...He should try looking after his own fiscal cliff, rather then being focused on what might happen to ours if we leave Europe.
IM VERY ANGRY
We have an update.
The British Prime Minister cancelled his European Speech due to the African Oil Hostage crisis...But he has reschedualed it for next week.
upon hearing that, the Prime Minister received a DIRECT CALL from The President of the United States of America, who told him that if he went ahead with the speech and dared to give his people a say in a European Union Referendum, that our "special relationship" would pretty much be over.
Would that be the special relationship that means when America tells us to jump, we ask how high? perhaps it is not in our best interest to have a "special Relationship" with someone who is always tettering on the edge of a fiscal cliff.
I get it that its in Americas best interest for a strong British Voice in Europe...why? because it is the ONLY way America has any control over Europe since she is made of nations who went cold on the US about Ten Years ago....What is unbelievable, is that in the sake of HIS Nations best interest...please note WE are NOT an American State...he would tell another world leader to act like a despot and not listen to the voice of their people....and then assume that those people considered him friendly towards them...? I get that that is how States within the Federation act...but...we are not in His Federation.
The President of the United States of America hath NO Jurisdiction in this realm of England...The Truth is, only in America is it believed that we DO have a "special relationship" The people of England have no wish to join the American Federation...We value our own State Soverignty...that is why we dont want to be part of a European Federation either...We would like to be FREE...I dont understand why that is such a difficult concept for America to understand...the Federal Government, may have effectively torn up the Constitution...but in England, the founding documents of Our "Constitution" are still adhered to...and we wish a resurgence of those values in the wake of a monster rising in Europe much akin to your Federal Government post your Civil War...We dont want that...and whats more...I have every faith that just as the Prime Minister is ignoring Germany, the Opposition, and his coillition partners...He WILL defy America...just as he did with the Extradition Treaty.
The sooner the White House, Congress, and the American people catch on, the better. Now the United States can go represent itself in Europe rather then spunging off our good name. Now the United States can deal with Soverign nations who have no quarms in telling them to piss off when they have overstept the mark....and if President Obama is really wanting to soil relations with one of the few countries which up to now HAS done his bidding, HAS been friendly to him, HAS supported him...perhaps he would like to remove his Listening Posts from Englands Soil...and see if France would like them instead....or any European Country...And I think if he dared to forge some kind of alliance with Germany...you might just see us stand "shoulder to Shoulder" with China and Russia :laugh:
This...if you bother to hold to the principles of the Declairation of Independance is what Soverign States are permitted to do...make, and change trade negotiations with whomever they want...I assume just as that applied to the Collonies trading with France at a time of war within the Empire...so it applies to us trading with the European Union in a time where America cant deal with Europe Directly due to their own past bad behaviour.
If my Leader was acting as badly as yours, I would be ashamed of him and profusely appologising on his behalf...and thats not even coming from someone who adheres to the US Constitution, or freedom through democracy as defined by Americans...
Barack Obama piles pressure on David Cameron over EU exit
Downing Street plays down US President’s personal intervention ahead of Europe speech
David Cameron’s trouble-prone strategy on Europe suffered another setback when US President Barack Obama made a personal appeal to him not to allow Britain to drift out of the European Union.
Mr Obama’s intervention came only hours before the Prime Minister was due to make his landmark speech on the UK’s relationship with Europe.
Mr Cameron had planned to warn that the British public could “drift towards the exit” of the EU unless it reformed.
But Mr Cameron called off his speech in Amsterdam so that he could remain in London to deal with the unfolding hostage crisis at a BP gas complex in Algeria.
Downing Street did not reveal Mr Obama’s plea but the White House disclosed: “The President underscored our close alliance with the United Kingdom and said that the United States values a strong UK in a strong European Union, which makes critical contributions to peace, prosperity, and security in Europe and around the world.” No 10 had said earlier that the two leaders discussed the Algeria situation.
Today Downing Street confirmed that Mr Cameron and Mr Obama spoke about the postponed Europe speech and agreed that a debate was needed because of concerns in Britain, “but the hope is that Britain will stay in”.
Mr Cameron’s official spokesman played down any differences with the American President, saying the telephone call was “very friendly, very constructive.”
Mr Cameron’s spokesman added: “The US were stating their position. That is one we entirely agree with.”
The Prime Minister’s aides insisted there was no conflict because Mr Cameron – in the long-delayed speech that he may now deliver next week – will make clear that he does not want Britain to leave the EU.
He will say: “I want the European Union to be a success and I want a relationship between Britain and the EU that keeps us in it.”
Martin Callanan, chairman of the European Conservatives and Reformists group in the European Parliament, said it was very important for the Tories to offer a “solid commitment” to a referendum, which would help to see off the threat from the UK Independence Party (Ukip), which supports Britain’s withdrawal from the EU.
He told the BBC’s Daily Politics programme: “Clearly they [Ukip] are going to take votes away from us, anybody who doesn’t vote Conservative is a threat for us and I think Ukip is a genuine problem.
“It gives us a chance to say to the many disenchanted Conservative voters, ‘here is the referendum that you want’, and it’s only a Conservative government that’s going to deliver it. Ukip aren’t going to be in power after the next election.”
Latest opinion polls show that Mr Cameron is on safe ground in arguing that the “status quo” in Europe is not acceptable. The public agrees.
But the polls also suggest that Nick Clegg’s belief that Mr Cameron is “playing with fire” by offering a referendum might also be right. According to YouGov, only 50 per cent of the public would vote to stay in the EU if Mr Cameron renegotiated the UK’s relationship with it, told them Britain’s interests were protected and recommended continued membership on new terms. Some 25 per cent said they would still vote to quit the EU, while the others were either unsure (20 per cent) or would not vote (5 per cent).
Joe Twyman, YouGov’s director of political and social research, said: “When given a straight ‘in/out’ choice, currently public opinion is strongly towards withdrawal, and when given the option of staying in the EU on renegotiated terms there is still only 50 per cent support.
“Therefore, David Cameron will have to hope he is able to persuade enough voters that whatever negotiation he does achieve is accepted by the British people, because if he doesn’t then we could well be headed for the Brexit he hopes to avoid.”
What kind of demands are y'all making to the EU?
I mean what is it about the EU that your people are unhappy with?
When England signed up to this, we had Maggie in power. A conservative who was worried that the governing body of this European Trade group were going to be handling a hell of a lot of money, and that in her words it could become "The back door to a Federal Europe" which is something no Republican or Conservative would want because it means giving up powers over Soverign issues.
Unfortunately it was one of the very last things Maggie did before she was ousted by her own party. The next Conservative leader was weak, and when his term passed we moved into a period of time controlled by the Labour Party. Headed by the infamous Tony Blair.
The Europeans had moved on from just helping each other with a common market, and they now had a Government of Representatives from all the member States of Europe...they are called MEPs, Member of the European Parliament. It was felt to make trade most easy, all the countries in the Union would have to share the same financial currency...for across Europe there was Francs, Pounds, Punts, Marks, Drachma...and a whole lot more. The idea was to form a single currency called "The Euro"
Seventeen States agreed to this in the Union, the rest did not. It was then decided to have a kinda two tier Europe. Those who used the Euro, became "The Euro-Zone" those who did not remained simply as a member of the European Union
The Founding countries by now were paying more into the pot then some of the later countries, as the European Union developed into the Eastern Russian Block and the Middle East. As they went the Parliament got stronger and stronger. It began to appoint itself and create new cross country insitutions which were not ellected, nor accountable to the public. As such, it wanted more money, and more similarities amoung Nations to make coorperation and its work more easy.
Then the European Union decided, as a completely isolated body, it wanted a President. So it appointed one for itself. This was the tipping point for me, between when it moved from being about easy Trade between Nations, to an Institution which wanted political unity and power to govern...and of course, it was unellected.
They began to pass laws which all the member states had to enact. One of the very worse was that all citizens within the European Union effectively had free movement. Obviously there was a big desparagy between living in What was Russia...and living in England...and so mass migration began on a level that England simply couldnt cope with. Any underprivilaged European wanted to become a Brit...or a German...or any nationality where the standard of living was better...and under the European Laws they could do so...and we had great trouble trying to stop them. These Countries suffered an unknown side effect of a single currancy...See whilst they all shared the currency, they did not share the same economy...and so one would put up intrest rates to benefit itself...and that had a dire effect on another, weaker country close by.
England and The Republic of Eire wanted to call them to account by placing a veto on their treaties. According to their own laws, they cant be passed without all member states agreeing to them. So when the Republic of Eire vetoed the Lisbon Treaty, we all expected Europe to be put in its place....but The European Parliament simply ignored the Veto, and made the changes law anyway.
Then the wall street wobble occured, the financial instability in the United States rippled out across Europe causeing a wave of Nationalization (when the Governments take control of the banks because the banks dont have the capitol to back themselves up) this means one of two things...either the Government directly controls the banks...OR the Banks become indepted to the Governments. All this "Common Market Trade" since the begining of the European Union suddenly caught up with all the weaker countries in the membership...one by one they could not afford the debt...and so the European Union decided to replace their Governments. The Union of course being controlled by the Country with the most Money....Germany....Whose money originally came from the Americans in the rebuilding process after the war.
Germany now had the right to demand member Government do what it says, or else face bankruptsy...and as members of the European Union, if the Member Country decided to follow German Orders, it got given money...Money from the pot that member countries pay into...So effectively MY MONEY. I pay Tax to the Government...The Government pays the Union...Germany decides where the Union Money goes...and its used to black mail other countries, through a Foreign, Unellected Parliament, who dont even follow their own laws.
Then Finally, the Reign of Tony Blair fell apart and a Conservative was back in power, atleast as part of a Coilition Government
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uZYINkajlY (Part of Tony Blairs last speech to the House of Commons at Prime Minister (notice David Cameron, a future prime minister, is leader of the opposition at the time lol...he looks much older now...no?)
...horrified at the replacement Governments in Greece and Italy...Worried of future replacement Governments in The Republic of Eire, and Spain...AND noticing that it was not one of the Strongest....They instigated Great Austerity, the likes that we havent seen since the Winters of Discontent. They were angry that they still had to give money to Europe...and that the stipulation of a Rebate which Maggie got moments before her political career was felled, was criticized by Germany who wanted, naturally to change that.
The Finaly Blow was called The European Supreme Court. The European Parliament dictated that all members must have and abide by The European Supreme Court...again, made up of unellected individuals. That this court be the highest in the land. Well...When British Members of Parliament take their seats, they must sware an oath to Her Majesty The Queen, saying that SHE is the Highest Court in the Land...The Crown Court of Appeals. For along time the European Court of Appeals was Higher...but that was fine, coz it wasnt based in England...The Supreme Court has bases IN ENGLAND.
The penny dropped that we had suddenly given too much power away. The Europeans moved to give convicted criminals the right to vote from behind bars, and the House of Commons stood up in outrage. The German Chancellor announced the only way out of the Euro-zone Crisis was by FULL FINANCIAL UNION...and for the first time in its Thirty odd year History, England went to the European Summit and flatly refused. When we did it...other states did it aswell...meanwhile, those Seventeen States are now begining a process that will lead to German Rule over Seventeen European Soverignties Financially...and inevitably...a Political Rule will follow that, as you cant have Soverign States rule themselves, if they have no power over their own money and share an economy.
There will rise a Federal Europe...EXACTLY the same as your Federation...Where your States have next to Zero Control, and have their money removed from them if they dont do what the Federal Government Demands....Where a President can loose a popular vote and gain office. Its a Sham of Democracy. We dont want to be Rulled by Germans...we dont want to be rulled by anyone but ourselves.
In under a Century, the Whole of Europe will be under The German Chancellor...imagine how those who lost loved ones in the war feel? What would the soldiers who died think? The German Chancellor has already passed the point of no return, unless the single currency is distroyed...there WILL be a Federal Europe...its now pretty much inevitable for those Seventeen States...what England has to decide now is whether to be the Eighteenth State or not...and I think NOT
The Irony is that David Cameron thinks if he renegotiates with Europe, to remove the Supreme Court, To stop the European Arrest Warrent, To repatriate much of our powers...that the public will think that maybe they should stay anyway.
He's Wrong...and the US President is Correct...If/When the People are asked...it doesnt matter what the new deal is...We will withdraw almost certainly. Now the US doesnt like that because their method of dealing with Europe, it to sweet talk England into representing them to a Federation which hasnt been impressed by US Foreign Policy in the last Decade. The US finds it easy working with England, because in the Blair epoch, it was considered the only way to keep any shred of power on the world stage was to cosy up to the Americans. We thus had an important position as Go-Between. The Europeans spoke to us...we told the Americans...the Americans replied to us...we told the Europeans. That was fine for the first part of the era...but when America decided to put us in a position where we had to choose to side with them, or with Europe...that put us in an awkward position. We pulled it off...but Blair was the sacrificially lamb with appeasing Europe...and of course the populas could see that, whilst we dont want to be rulled by Europe...we dont want to be rulled by America either...and at that point...Europes Growth seemed silent and non offensive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uZYINkajlY (Resignation Speech of Robin Cook, over the War in Iraq, which has permanently damaged Europe - United States Direct diologue without British Intervention ever since...and Barack Obama recognises this, hence the personal call)
Now...IF David Cameron makes this speech...things will change. We will be saying NO To Europe...we will also be saying NO to America...It should ensure another Conservative led Government after the next Ellection, the Labour Party will have to also promise a referendum if they hope to be ellected next time, The Liberal Democrats will be absolutely Screwed...and the rise of The United Kingdom Independance Party...which are leading on our MEPs (YES OUR REPRESENTATIVES IN THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT ARE NATIONLISTS!) will pretty much be complete.
If David Cameron truely wants us to stay in Europe...he shouldnt make this speech...but he thinks he can change our minds...and is prepared to ask us...which makes him Great...He knows that he may have to lead our Nations against his personal wishes, but on the terms of his people...Something the leader of NO Federation has EVER Been able to do...Including George Washington...who, Had he listened to the voice of his people above his own personal thoughts, would have Founded a Monarchy in America...and Including Abraham Lincoln, who...in theory, should have let the Confederates go...if they no longer want to be part of the Union, that is their will...and if they are incharge...he should listen to them...Neither, incidently did George Bush, when he vetoed constantly Congress over withdrawal in Iraq...He might have been morally correct...but he wasnt listening to his people.
The Truth is, any Democrasy is an ellected dictatorship, and Every Federal Government holds the Soverignty of its member states in Bondage...What You and the Germans call "Federation" I call "Empire"
Naturally...I'm all in favour of "Empire"
When its British led.
Denise...Please listen to This...This is Maggie on Europe...where she spells out her Concerns...This was when the Union first showed signs of becoming a world political power
Those institutions she speaks about have had TWENTY YEARS MORE GROWTH to reach present day
That "Future Government" she speaks about...That is NOW :frantics:
Listening to her its like she's making a prophecy...that I reckon within the next two decades will be fulfilled...this maybe our last opportunity to escape from Germany :unsure-1:
Twenty Year old Footage....A Labour/Opposition MP asks of Maggie
"Isnt It Clear, that what was being attempted at Rome, was a Bounce, and a Bounce that led only one way, and that was to a Single, Federal, United States of Europe. Is it not Vital that, in this house, across party lines, it is possible for a Prime Minister to go and make it clear, if neccasery that, Britain IS prepared to stand alone....Britain would be entitled and right to use its veto"
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