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View Full Version : Bring on the knees!


TLC
04-19-2010, 02:56 PM
I know Dana has mentioned this more than once in interviews, and I certainly agree. I've seen so many rights where I'm saying "if he could use knees right there, this fight would be over!"

I think it would be perfectly reasonable not to allow a knee strike coming straight down (jsut like they don't with elbows) however.

Spiritwalker
04-19-2010, 03:00 PM
I know Dana has mentioned this more than once in interviews, and I certainly agree. I've seen so many rights where I'm saying "if he could use knees right there, this fight would be over!"

I think it would be perfectly reasonable not to allow a knee strike coming straight down (jsut like they don't with elbows) however.

I am torn about kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponet..

I remember Jen's last fight in Pride.. (it was actually just shown last week).. It was a shin to the face that got Jens back to the .500 in Pride.. but man.. soccer kicks to the head .. I don't know.

Dethbob
04-19-2010, 03:50 PM
Does anyone know what the injury rates were in the early promotions compared to now? I don’t remember anyone getting their face broken from 12 to 6 elbows when those were legal and people were careful to defend against that.

The thing that made MMA cool in the beginning was that people could do things that were illegal in other sports, and you would not learn to do stupid stuff like relying on the rules and the ref to protect you. Are we moving away from that?

Max
04-19-2010, 04:05 PM
I am torn about kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponet..

I remember Jen's last fight in Pride.. (it was actually just shown last week).. It was a shin to the face that got Jens back to the .500 in Pride.. but man.. soccer kicks to the head .. I don't know.

kicks and knees are different. no one is saying let soccer kicks into the UFC. People are asking for knees though. The rule should be that no knees are allowed to the top of the head.

donaldbreland
04-19-2010, 04:26 PM
kicks and knees are different. no one is saying let soccer kicks into the UFC. People are asking for knees though. The rule should be that no knees are allowed to the top of the head.

Yeah but all it takes is one fighter to get hit on the top of his head on accident and the other guy could die or be paralyzed. I think the rules are just fine the way they are now. If it's not broke don't fix it.

KevinD
04-19-2010, 04:48 PM
Although I would love to see knees to the head of a downed opponent added to the list of legal strikes, I doubt it will happen. That should have been pushed for when the Unified rules were being drawn up. To add new strikes to the rule book will be very tough to do. On the flip side, making things illegal would be much easier. Lets hope nothing is subtracted. Keeping it the way it is is better than making more strikes illegal.

TLC
04-19-2010, 05:43 PM
I guess I should've been more clear in my initial post. I am in no way advocating for kicks to the head of a downed opponent. The amount of force generated in such a way would be catastrophic.

The argument that "all it takes is one guy to accidentally knee someone in the top of the head..." doesn't fly. It doesn't fly for a couple of reasons: 1. How many times have we seen people like Matt pick someone up and drop them down on their head?...and how many stories of paralysis have resulted? By that lofic, we should take away the slam too. 2, Sure, there's danger there, but it is a sport where you lock two highly trained combatants in a cage after with both seeking to incapacitate the other after all.

As far as them taking things away,I really don't think that would be a good idea. If they take away elbows for instance, then the UFC might as well change its name to Strikeforce II.

Another good reason to actually have knees to the head is that it wouldn't allow fighters to relax in certain positions, which would make the ground game even more exciting. The notion that all you had to do was tie up the hands of the guy on top of you long enough to get stood back up would largely vanish too. If Matt could've used knees against Serra, that fight would NEVER have made it to a decision. I doubt he would've gotten out of the first round.

logrus
04-19-2010, 05:58 PM
If this post was a few years ago I would have been for knees to a downed opponent. But since Pride has been long dead I favor the rule of not allowing it.

County Mike
04-19-2010, 07:00 PM
I want them to allow upkicks regardless of opponent's position. If he's above you in any form, you should be allowed to kick upwards at him. The top opponent putting his knee down as he tries to navigate around your guard should not protect him from the kicks.

Max
04-19-2010, 07:15 PM
I want them to allow upkicks regardless of opponent's position. If he's above you in any form, you should be allowed to kick upwards at him. The top opponent putting his knee down as he tries to navigate around your guard should not protect him from the kicks.

then the same should go for a guy who puts his hands on the ground to avoid eating a knee.

County Mike
04-19-2010, 07:26 PM
then the same should go for a guy who puts his hands on the ground to avoid eating a knee.

The difference in that is, the guy throwing the knee is on his feet. A guy on his back can't generate as much power.

I do agree that putting your hand down shouldn't classify as being "down", but I wouldn't put the two rules in the same basket.

logrus
04-19-2010, 09:00 PM
I want them to allow upkicks regardless of opponent's position. If he's above you in any form, you should be allowed to kick upwards at him. The top opponent putting his knee down as he tries to navigate around your guard should not protect him from the kicks.

No clue why they don't allow that considering the guy on top is going to be generating a lot more force leaping over the legs to punch you or drop the elbow.

Tyburn
04-19-2010, 10:33 PM
Jen's last fight in Pride.. (soccer kicks to the head ..

Isnt that how it was finished :ninja:

I think that was the first fight he had done real time since I was a fan of his...wasnt it about this time, or just before, in 2006...It was around the time of The Great Schism :ninja:

donaldbreland
04-20-2010, 08:32 PM
I want them to allow upkicks regardless of opponent's position. If he's above you in any form, you should be allowed to kick upwards at him. The top opponent putting his knee down as he tries to navigate around your guard should not protect him from the kicks.

Agreed.

rearnakedchoke
04-21-2010, 12:26 AM
the ufc is fine without knees to the noggin ...

Dethbob
04-21-2010, 02:03 PM
Why not get rid of knees, elbows and finishing holds altogether? If pure sport is the goal, Boxing and Wrestling are exciting and established international sports with complete rulesets. A few minor tweaks to the rules and scoring systems would create a sport similar to MMA but without those elements that so distress the rabitfolk, and with a couple of potential fan bases already built in.

Buc Nasty
04-21-2010, 10:49 PM
I don't see any need to change the rules. They are fine as they are.

Max
04-21-2010, 11:48 PM
Why not get rid of knees, elbows and finishing holds altogether? If pure sport is the goal, Boxing and Wrestling are exciting and established international sports with complete rulesets. A few minor tweaks to the rules and scoring systems would create a sport similar to MMA but without those elements that so distress the rabitfolk, and with a couple of potential fan bases already built in.

finishing hold???? No one in MMA uses the Stone Cold Stunner. Are you talking about submissions?

Dethbob
04-22-2010, 12:43 PM
finishing hold???? No one in MMA uses the Stone Cold Stunner. Are you talking about submissions?

I have no idea what a ‘Stone Cold Stunner’ is, but in the context of this post I assume it would be included in ‘other’, as in not western boxing and not collegiate, greco-roman or freestyle wrestling.

I think the term ‘submissions’ is misleading because the fact that they can make someone ‘submit’ is just an artifact of competition, the actual purpose of these techniques is to break joints or render someone unconscious, thereby finishing the fight.

Max
04-22-2010, 12:50 PM
I think the term ‘submissions’ is misleading because the fact that they can make someone ‘submit’ is just an artifact of competition, the actual purpose of these techniques is to break joints or render someone unconscious, thereby finishing the fight.

So does that mean that head kicks and power punches are also finishing moves since the intention behind someone throwing them is to finish the fight.

Dethbob
04-22-2010, 01:03 PM
So does that mean that head kicks and power punches are also finishing moves since the intention behind someone throwing them is to finish the fight.

I need to explain this? Yes, a punch or kick can finish a fight. No a punch or kick is not a ‘hold’.
Head kicks and power punches could be called finishing moves, but I didn’t say ‘move’.

edit: After some reflection and caffeine, this post seems a little harsh. What I meant to say was, ‘Sure, I guess head kicks and power punches could also be considered finishing moves’. Thanks!