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Neezar
10-01-2012, 04:28 AM
California will ban gay teen 'conversion' therapy



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SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California will become the first state to ban a controversial form of psychotherapy aimed at making gay teenagers straight.

Gov. Jerry Brown announced Sunday that he had signed SB1172 by Democratic Senator Ted Lieu of Torrance. Lieu says the law will prevent children from being psychologically abused.

Effective January 1st, the state will prohibit what is known as reparative or conversion therapy for minors.

Brown says the therapies "have no basis in science or medicine and they will now be relegated to the dustbin of quackery."

Gay rights groups say the practice is dangerous because it can put youth at higher risk of depression and suicide.

Conservative religious groups and some Republicans argue that banning conversion therapy would hinder parents' right to provide psychological care for children experiencing gender confusion.

rearnakedchoke
10-01-2012, 01:42 PM
good for cali !!!!!

NateR
10-01-2012, 02:43 PM
The downward spiral continues and Satan's hold on this country gets stronger and stronger.

PRShrek
10-01-2012, 02:51 PM
They will of course also ban teachers and other authority figures from promoting homosexuality to children, right?

Neezar
10-01-2012, 03:47 PM
good for cali !!!!!
Do you believe that some children experience gender confusion? Some people don't. They think it boils down to a person being gay or not, that black and white.

If you do believe that some children can be experiencing gender confusion, do you believe that they should not be entitled to professional help with it?

Surely you don't think they should have to rely soley on friends, family or peers? I mean wouldn't you have to wonder if one or some of those areas could very well be part of the problem in the first place.

Some kids who 'feel gay' desparately want to be straight or 'normal' (a term that I have heard them use). I definitely don't think any kid should be forced into this but I don't think any options or offers of help should be taken away from them.

rearnakedchoke
10-01-2012, 03:59 PM
Do you believe that some children experience gender confusion? Some people don't. They think it boils down to a person being gay or not, that black and white.

If you do believe that some children can be experiencing gender confusion, do you believe that they should not be entitled to professional help with it?

Surely you don't think they should have to rely soley on friends, family or peers? I mean wouldn't you have to wonder if one or some of those areas could very well be part of the problem in the first place.

Some kids who 'feel gay' desparately want to be straight or 'normal' (a term that I have heard them use). I definitely don't think any kid should be forced into this but I don't think any options or offers of help should be taken away from them.

sure ... but some of the "therapy" includes shocking the patients .. sometimes in the genitals ... providing drugs that make them sick and hallucinate ... i don't agree with that ... prayer groups .. support systems .. they are fine .. i think someone just tries to make money off the religious by claiming they are a conversion therapist ... no one says taking your teen to a priest or pastor and having them read with the person parts of the bible that talks about homosexuality is wrong ... but someone taking their child to some pseudo-therapist is selfish and can definitely harm the person undergoing the therapy

Neezar
10-01-2012, 04:04 PM
sure ... but some of the "therapy" includes shocking the patients .. sometimes in the genitals ... providing drugs that make them sick and hallucinate ... i don't agree with that ...

I would never agree with that either.

Neezar
10-01-2012, 04:06 PM
I personally don't believe it is possible to 'convert' a gay person.





:duck:

rearnakedchoke
10-01-2012, 04:11 PM
I personally don't believe it is possible to 'convert' a gay person.





:duck:

well .. that is the dilemma ... some people believe it is a form of perversion ... while others feel it is a natural occurring thing .. i think people are born gay ...

PRShrek
10-01-2012, 04:45 PM
I personally don't believe it is possible to 'convert' a gay person.

I think you are right in a sense. Most people don’t get addicted to heroin, those who do have a built in weakness to that particular temptation. The same goes for people who develop a rage habit or kleptomania. That does not make it a healthy lifestyle or something that cannot be overcome.

I think RNC is right about some of the quackery, it’s too bad so many of those who could actually help are either terrified of going against political correctness or are outright drinking the coolade.

County Mike
10-01-2012, 05:20 PM
I personally don't believe it is possible to 'convert' a gay person.


I've converted some lesbians.

Temporarily at least. :wink:

NateR
10-01-2012, 06:23 PM
I personally don't believe it is possible to 'convert' a gay person.





:duck:

So, this is just one where GOD's hands are tied?

NateR
10-01-2012, 06:29 PM
i think people are born gay ...

It doesn't matter whether they are born gay or not, it doesn't make the act of homosexuality any less sinful. Sin nature exists in all of us, saying "I was born this way" is not an excuse to sin regardless of whether someone is gay or straight.

What about people who are born schizophrenic? Does that mean that they don't need treatment?

Then there are those who are born with a genetic predisposition towards alcoholism. Since they were "born that way" does that mean that alcoholism is actually a healthy lifestyle for those people?

rearnakedchoke
10-01-2012, 06:57 PM
It doesn't matter whether they are born gay or not, it doesn't make the act of homosexuality any less sinful. Sin nature exists in all of us, saying "I was born this way" is not an excuse to sin regardless of whether someone is gay or straight.

What about people who are born schizophrenic? Does that mean that they don't need treatment?

Then there are those who are born with a genetic predisposition towards alcoholism. Since they were "born that way" does that mean that alcoholism is actually a healthy lifestyle for those people?

in your opinion though it is a sin ... i see nothing wrong with men or women carrying on a relationship with the same sex ... if they are in a loving, monogomous relationship, i see nothing wrong with it ... i agree you were taught that it is a sin .. that is fine ... i still don't think a parent should be able to put their kid through "therapy" which involves some would say torture for an "ailment" the teen doesn't feel is detrimental to their well-being ..

CAVEMAN1
10-01-2012, 07:00 PM
It doesn't matter whether they are born gay or not, it doesn't make the act of homosexuality any less sinful. Sin nature exists in all of us, saying "I was born this way" is not an excuse to sin regardless of whether someone is gay or straight.

What about people who are born schizophrenic? Does that mean that they don't need treatment?

Then there are those who are born with a genetic predisposition towards alcoholism. Since they were "born that way" does that mean that alcoholism is actually a healthy lifestyle for those people?

I agree. When I hear that argument of "being born this way", it is nothing more than a trick we all use when we hold on to a particular sin in our life, we rationalize it away.

Neezar
10-01-2012, 08:21 PM
So, this is just one where GOD's hands are tied?

No.

I see you used alcoholism as an example to compare homosexuals to. Well, they say 'once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.' I believe the same is true for homosexuals. Can they control their actions? Of course. But I think the desire will always be there.

Neezar
10-01-2012, 08:32 PM
I've converted some lesbians.

Temporarily at least. :wink:


Mike! :laugh:

NateR
10-01-2012, 08:46 PM
in your opinion though it is a sin ...

My opinion is irrelevant and so is yours. The only thing that matters is what GOD's Word says.

Do you even know what the Bible says about homosexuality?

NateR
10-01-2012, 08:50 PM
No.

I see you used alcoholism as an example to compare homosexuals to. Well, they say 'once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.' I believe the same is true for homosexuals. Can they control their actions? Of course. But I think the desire will always be there.

Except there is evidence that people can be cured of homosexuality. Do you really think that GOD can't take away homosexual desires AND the desire to drink alcohol?

flo
10-01-2012, 10:35 PM
I know next to nothing about this type of therapy although I have heard of it. I have no clue if it works for some or not but in general, I am against the state stepping in to ban a questionable therapy. Sadly, many gay people - teens especially - are depressed about their issues and as a group have a higher suicide rate percentage than the average. So I don't buy that as Brown's reasoning to ban the therapy.

I personally try to accept people for who they are. But if a person wanted to try this therapy, why should it not be available to them?

Just more intrusion of the government into our lives, IMO. But I'm open to be swayed either way.

flo
10-01-2012, 10:39 PM
They will of course also ban teachers and other authority figures from promoting homosexuality to children, right?

Your comment made me smile, PRS. You'd be a great at debating, you get to the gist of the matter.

Neezar
10-02-2012, 01:34 AM
Except there is evidence that people can be cured of homosexuality. Do you really think that GOD can't take away homosexual desires AND the desire to drink alcohol?

There is evidence that they are cured? :unsure-1: I know some homosexuals chose not to live as a homosexual but are there ones that lose that desire?

And I believe that God can do anything he wants. I have experienced and seen things happen than can be no less as described as a miracle. I believe that God is behind those miracles.

How many Christians do you know who would claim they no longer have sinful urges after they are saved?

NateR
10-02-2012, 03:11 AM
There is evidence that they are cured? :unsure-1: I know some homosexuals chose not to live as a homosexual but are there ones that lose that desire?

Yes. One of them is Brad Grammar, who was a homosexual for many years until GOD eventually cured him of his same sex attraction and has been happily married to his wife for almost 20 years now. He spoke at our church a couple of years back here is the sermon:

http://www.hillsboropc.org/sermonmanager.php?sermonID=20829&

County Mike
10-02-2012, 12:07 PM
Mike! :laugh:

At least one person laughed at my comment. I'm starting to feel like my talents are wasted here. Where did all the fun people go?

VCURamFan
10-02-2012, 01:47 PM
At least one person laughed at my comment. I'm starting to feel like my talents are wasted here. Where did all the fun people go?
Work's been stupid busy. I'm barely able to lurk effectively anymore. :unsure-1:

rearnakedchoke
10-02-2012, 02:17 PM
Work's been stupid busy. I'm barely able to lurk effectively anymore. :unsure-1:

well you are just going to have to become a better multitasker .. not get in the post a picture thread and do your best!!!! we can't be forced to watch dave's video blogs anymore!!!!!!


kidding dave ...

rearnakedchoke
10-02-2012, 02:21 PM
My opinion is irrelevant and so is yours. The only thing that matters is what GOD's Word says.

Do you even know what the Bible says about homosexuality?

i am sure it is pretty bad ... but i guess i can't claim to be Christian if i don't see being gay as a sin ...

PRShrek
10-02-2012, 03:02 PM
Your comment made me smile, PRS. You'd be a great at debating, you get to the gist of the matter.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CtT-mdnM50M/Tym1npz2XKI/AAAAAAAAFiI/T8265csS2Jc/s1600/SmilingCat.jpg

adamt
10-02-2012, 05:00 PM
well .. that is the dilemma ... some people believe it is a form of perversion ... while others feel it is a natural occurring thing .. i think people are born gay ...

i think some people are born murderers, rapists, incestous, beastialists, pedophiles and polygamous but that doesn't make em acceptable to society

adamt
10-02-2012, 05:13 PM
in your opinion though it is a sin ... i see nothing wrong with men or women carrying on a relationship with the same sex ... if they are in a loving, monogomous relationship, i see nothing wrong with it ... i agree you were taught that it is a sin .. that is fine ... i still don't think a parent should be able to put their kid through "therapy" which involves some would say torture for an "ailment" the teen doesn't feel is detrimental to their well-being ..

first off the stuff you claim is going on is already illegal, there doesn't need to be another law making it illegal to shock someone in the balls against their will

secondly is incest okay since it is a loving monogamous relationship, how about pedophilia as long as both parties are consentual


I personally try to accept people for who they are

since you said you are open to being swayed, i will just say ask you if you are open to accepting people as pedophiles, incestous, "animal lovers", etc....






and lastly, if the whole ball shocking thing was some form of perverted sex, then it would be getting "protection", instead of ranting about leaving them alone with what happens behind closed doors, they are banning it :frantics:

NateR
10-02-2012, 05:20 PM
i am sure it is pretty bad ... but i guess i can't claim to be Christian if i don't see being gay as a sin ...

If you don't believe in the authority of Scripture, then no, you can't claim to be a Christian. Well, technically, you could claim to be a Christian, but you would just be a liar.

As for me, personally, I couldn't care less if two guys I've never met want to sleep together. If a same-sex couple in California wants to get married, that will never affect me. But this is NOT about my personal opinions or what I am able to tolerate. It's about GOD's standards, not humankind's standards.

Human society is built completely by sinful, corrupted minds. GOD's standards are perfect. So is it any surprise that our society would so often tell people to do exactly the opposite of what GOD wants us to do?

What worries me the most here is that I fear young men are going to be told that they are gay, just because they don't fit into our society's accepted stereotypes of masculinity, and their parents and/or churches will have their hands legally tied if they want to tell those kids differently.

NateR
10-02-2012, 06:58 PM
Liberty Counsel is filing suit against the new law in order to have it blocked:

http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=14102&AlertID=1467

October 1, 2012

Liberty Counsel to File Suit Against California’s Ban on Change Therapy

www.LC.org

In anticipation that California Governor Jerry Brown would sign the new law banning change therapy, Liberty Counsel has been preparing a lawsuit on behalf of counselors, parents and their minor children, and the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH).

In signing the bill, Gov. Brown said that change therapy “will now be relegated to the dustbin of quackery.”

The California governor and legislature are putting their own preconceived notions and political ideology ahead of children and their rights to get access to counseling that meets their needs. A number of minors who have struggled with same-sex attraction have been able to reduce or eliminate the stress and conflicts in their lives by receiving counseling of their choice which best meets their needs and religious convictions. This bill will harm children, stress families, and place counselors in a catch-22, because they will be forced to violate their licensing ethical codes.

This law undermines parental rights. Mental health decisions should be left to the patient, the parents, and the counselors – not to the government to license one viewpoint.

Read our News Release for more details.

rearnakedchoke
10-03-2012, 03:27 PM
If you don't believe in the authority of Scripture, then no, you can't claim to be a Christian. Well, technically, you could claim to be a Christian, but you would just be a liar.

As for me, personally, I couldn't care less if two guys I've never met want to sleep together. If a same-sex couple in California wants to get married, that will never affect me. But this is NOT about my personal opinions or what I am able to tolerate. It's about GOD's standards, not humankind's standards.

Human society is built completely by sinful, corrupted minds. GOD's standards are perfect. So is it any surprise that our society would so often tell people to do exactly the opposite of what GOD wants us to do?

What worries me the most here is that I fear young men are going to be told that they are gay, just because they don't fit into our society's accepted stereotypes of masculinity, and their parents and/or churches will have their hands legally tied if they want to tell those kids differently.


so as a Christian, what is one supposed to do about it? besides saying it is wrong, writing on a forum that the gov't is leading the country to hell?? ?not saying you personally, but how many Christians have done something? write their gov't, hold a rally?, create a petitiion?? is it enough to just say it is wrong and not try and change the problem?

PRShrek
10-03-2012, 03:58 PM
so as a Christian, what is one supposed to do about it? besides saying it is wrong, writing on a forum that the gov't is leading the country to hell?? ?not saying you personally, but how many Christians have done something? write their gov't, hold a rally?, create a petitiion?? is it enough to just say it is wrong and not try and change the problem?

You have got to be kidding me. Where have you been for the last, oh, hundred years or so?

Wait, you actually were kidding, right?

Neezar
10-03-2012, 04:00 PM
You have got to be kidding me. Where have you been for the last, oh, hundred years or so?

Wait, you actually were kidding, right?

Um, in Canada? :unsure-1:


:laugh:

PRShrek
10-03-2012, 04:12 PM
Um, in Canada? :unsure-1:


:laugh:

:laugh:


http://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/christians-in-politics/biblical-citizenship.aspx

What ended the Roman Empire's vicious — and wildly popular — blood sport, the gladiatorial games? In large part, Christians did. More precisely, one single Christian.

The spectacles came to an end at the turn of the fifth century, when an eastern monk named Telemachus journeyed to the mighty city of Rome. He was determined to put a stop to the madness, armed only with faith in God and the belief that human beings made in His image should not tear each other to pieces like wild animals. Entering the Coliseum one day as a spectator, he bided his time in the stands until the fighting had raised the crowd to a frenzy. Then he leaped into the arena and separated the combatants. He was cut to pieces, but he won the day. The spectacles ceased when the emperor Honorius abolished them, moved by what had happened in the arena that day.

In Roman society, fathers wielded tyrannical power and women had the status of virtual household slaves. Children could be abused, sold or murdered: Unwanted infants (usually girls) were commonly “exposed” — abandoned in the streets, to be used in pagan sacrifices, raised as beggars or sold into slavery.

Christians campaigned relentlessly against these horrors and — after decades, and in some cases centuries, of pressure — got results. For the first time, rape became a crime with severe penalties. Women gained unprecedented property rights and divorce laws were tightened to protect them against serial divorce. Abandoned children sold as slaves were freed.

In these and many other ways — the treatment of slaves, the poor, the sick, the vulnerable, the imprisoned — Christians radically reformed the ancient world. They did it without anything close to the freedoms we enjoy, and sometimes at great personal risk.

One especially inspiring example of Christianity at work in the culture is 19th century English Member of Parliament William Wilberforce. Wilberforce worked tirelessly for 20 years to persuade his fellow lawmakers to outlaw Britain's slave trade. He fought this good fight while in poor health and often standing alone in the legislature.

Finally, the British Parliament passed the Abolition of Slavery Act on July 26, 1833 — three days before Wilberforce died.

Neezar
10-03-2012, 04:29 PM
:laugh:


http://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/christians-in-politics/biblical-citizenship.aspx

What ended the Roman Empire's vicious — and wildly popular — blood sport, the gladiatorial games? In large part, Christians did. More precisely, one single Christian.

The spectacles came to an end at the turn of the fifth century, when an eastern monk named Telemachus journeyed to the mighty city of Rome. He was determined to put a stop to the madness, armed only with faith in God and the belief that human beings made in His image should not tear each other to pieces like wild animals. Entering the Coliseum one day as a spectator, he bided his time in the stands until the fighting had raised the crowd to a frenzy. Then he leaped into the arena and separated the combatants. He was cut to pieces, but he won the day. The spectacles ceased when the emperor Honorius abolished them, moved by what had happened in the arena that day.

In Roman society, fathers wielded tyrannical power and women had the status of virtual household slaves. Children could be abused, sold or murdered: Unwanted infants (usually girls) were commonly “exposed” — abandoned in the streets, to be used in pagan sacrifices, raised as beggars or sold into slavery.

Christians campaigned relentlessly against these horrors and — after decades, and in some cases centuries, of pressure — got results. For the first time, rape became a crime with severe penalties. Women gained unprecedented property rights and divorce laws were tightened to protect them against serial divorce. Abandoned children sold as slaves were freed.

In these and many other ways — the treatment of slaves, the poor, the sick, the vulnerable, the imprisoned — Christians radically reformed the ancient world. They did it without anything close to the freedoms we enjoy, and sometimes at great personal risk.

One especially inspiring example of Christianity at work in the culture is 19th century English Member of Parliament William Wilberforce. Wilberforce worked tirelessly for 20 years to persuade his fellow lawmakers to outlaw Britain's slave trade. He fought this good fight while in poor health and often standing alone in the legislature.

Finally, the British Parliament passed the Abolition of Slavery Act on July 26, 1833 — three days before Wilberforce died.

Good read there. However, it doesn't answer rnc's question. "so as a Christian, what is one supposed to do about it (this subject)?"

The Gay rights movement is moving in leaps and bounds in changing laws to protect/establish their rights. And it's happening today.

Should christians be campaigning/fighting against this? What do you think?

rearnakedchoke
10-03-2012, 04:47 PM
:laugh:


http://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/christians-in-politics/biblical-citizenship.aspx

What ended the Roman Empire's vicious — and wildly popular — blood sport, the gladiatorial games? In large part, Christians did. More precisely, one single Christian.

The spectacles came to an end at the turn of the fifth century, when an eastern monk named Telemachus journeyed to the mighty city of Rome. He was determined to put a stop to the madness, armed only with faith in God and the belief that human beings made in His image should not tear each other to pieces like wild animals. Entering the Coliseum one day as a spectator, he bided his time in the stands until the fighting had raised the crowd to a frenzy. Then he leaped into the arena and separated the combatants. He was cut to pieces, but he won the day. The spectacles ceased when the emperor Honorius abolished them, moved by what had happened in the arena that day.

In Roman society, fathers wielded tyrannical power and women had the status of virtual household slaves. Children could be abused, sold or murdered: Unwanted infants (usually girls) were commonly “exposed” — abandoned in the streets, to be used in pagan sacrifices, raised as beggars or sold into slavery.

Christians campaigned relentlessly against these horrors and — after decades, and in some cases centuries, of pressure — got results. For the first time, rape became a crime with severe penalties. Women gained unprecedented property rights and divorce laws were tightened to protect them against serial divorce. Abandoned children sold as slaves were freed.

In these and many other ways — the treatment of slaves, the poor, the sick, the vulnerable, the imprisoned — Christians radically reformed the ancient world. They did it without anything close to the freedoms we enjoy, and sometimes at great personal risk.

One especially inspiring example of Christianity at work in the culture is 19th century English Member of Parliament William Wilberforce. Wilberforce worked tirelessly for 20 years to persuade his fellow lawmakers to outlaw Britain's slave trade. He fought this good fight while in poor health and often standing alone in the legislature.

Finally, the British Parliament passed the Abolition of Slavery Act on July 26, 1833 — three days before Wilberforce died.

mod .. please help .. Dave has hacked into pshrek's account and posting info ...

PRShrek
10-03-2012, 05:14 PM
mod .. please help .. Dave has hacked into pshrek's account and posting info ...

:laugh:That’s funny, I actually did laugh out loud on that one!

The original article was even longer, that was just part one and I edited it to make it shorter. My point was, Christians have been ‘doing something about it’ for a very long time, and have been in the news quite a bit over the last decade or so. Unfortunately our efforts are often ignored or branded as hate speech by the powers and principalities, but a little truth gets through here and there.

Neezar
10-03-2012, 05:32 PM
I wonder if he is avoiding the question? Or maybe he has me on his ignore list and can't see my posts. :laugh:


Nate? Anyone? Anyone have an opinion on the question? I would love to hear it. Bueller?

"so as a Christian, what is one supposed to do about it (this subject)?"

PRShrek
10-03-2012, 06:10 PM
I wonder if he is avoiding the question? Or maybe he has me on his ignore list and can't see my posts. :laugh:

Sorry, I was too busy lol’ing at rnc calling me ‘Dave.’ And no, of course you’re not on my ignore list!

As for what we should do, of course we should continue usual letter writing, calling, demonstrating etc. and we should make sure that what we are trying to accomplish will improve the culture for everyone rather than just making other people comply with our beliefs. For example just banning homosexuality would not make gay people want to turn to Christ; it would just make them resent Christians. We should try to get the government and media to least not promote sinful lifestyles, and do what we can to make sure the way out is well lighted and clearly marked.

Spiritwalker
10-03-2012, 07:35 PM
I personally don't believe it is possible to 'convert' a gay person.

:duck:

Just to look at it from the other side.. Is it possible to convert a straight person?

Spiritwalker
10-03-2012, 07:37 PM
Except there is evidence that people can be cured of homosexuality. Do you really think that GOD can't take away homosexual desires AND the desire to drink alcohol?

See.. this is where you an I disagree Nate...

I don't think that anything is impossible for God.. I feel that God is mearly watching and judging..

Neezar
10-03-2012, 09:25 PM
Just to look at it from the other side.. Is it possible to convert a straight person?

What do you mean by convert?

I believe a gay man can have sex with women. I know one who was married with three kids to a woman (faithfully) for 23 years. She divorced him and he then explored his (lifelong) desires to be with another man. He has slept with other women since also. But I think (and he would agree now) that his sexual preference is a man.

A straight man can have sex with a man.

Some people are bisexual.

How can you change a person's sexual preference? I just don't know if that is possible.

NateR
10-03-2012, 11:45 PM
I wonder if he is avoiding the question? Or maybe he has me on his ignore list and can't see my posts. :laugh:


Nate? Anyone? Anyone have an opinion on the question? I would love to hear it. Bueller?

"so as a Christian, what is one supposed to do about it (this subject)?"

Well, the first step is to not compromise the truth just because it happens to be unpopular. We need to bear witness to the truth of GOD's Word. Even if it costs us our freedom, our families, or even our lives, we must stand up for the truth. Right now it's just unpopular in this country to be a Christian, however, very soon it could become dangerous to be a Christian in America.

Secondly, we are blessed enough to have been born into a country where we are allowed to speak out against our government and stand up for our religious beliefs without repercussions. Of course, those freedoms are becoming increasingly restricted as our nation drifts towards Liberalism, but we still have a responsibility to stand up for Biblical truth.

Third, for those people who have children, the most important job of any parent is to raise children that love GOD. That's your primary mission field. Raising children who hunger and thirst for righteousness is more important than their health, it's more important than their financial security, and it's more important than their education. As our pastor has said, he'd rather have sons who were dirt-poor, high school dropouts and loved GOD, instead of sons who were successful doctors who had no time for GOD.

I'm not saying that kids should be uneducated, I'm just saying that no amount of education is going to save your children from Hell. So, just remember that their relationship with Christ is infinitely more important than their college diploma.

If a law like this one in California isn't challenged, then it's just a matter of time before parents will be deemed unfit by the State for teaching their children Biblical morality.

Finally, and this is the most important thing, we can pray. Pray for our leaders that GOD might direct their path and pray for a revival in our nation.

NateR
10-03-2012, 11:51 PM
Just to look at it from the other side.. Is it possible to convert a straight person?

Homosexuality is simply a perversion of heterosexuality. Saying that it's a permanent sexual orientation that can never change is just one of the many lies that are being propagated by the Gay Rights movement.

So, yes, straight people could conceivably stray into homosexual activity and possibly even become deceived enough to believe that they might have been gay all along.

There's still no solid evidence to support the theory that people are born gay. So the entire Gay Rights argument is built on a false assumption. However, the idea is so important to their ideology that many Gay Rights activists simply state it as a fact in order to employ Joseph Stalin's tactic of "if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." However, it will never be the truth, because GOD himself condemns homosexuality and He is the only qualified author of truth.

Neezar
10-04-2012, 02:53 AM
Well, the first step is to not compromise the truth just because it happens to be unpopular. We need to bear witness to the truth of GOD's Word. Even if it costs us our freedom, our families, or even our lives, we must stand up for the truth. Right now it's just unpopular in this country to be a Christian, however, very soon it could become dangerous to be a Christian in America.

Secondly, we are blessed enough to have been born into a country where we are allowed to speak out against our government and stand up for our religious beliefs without repercussions. Of course, those freedoms are becoming increasingly restricted as our nation drifts towards Liberalism, but we still have a responsibility to stand up for Biblical truth.

Third, for those people who have children, the most important job of any parent is to raise children that love GOD. That's your primary mission field. Raising children who hunger and thirst for righteousness is more important than their health, it's more important than their financial security, and it's more important than their education. As our pastor has said, he'd rather have sons who were dirt-poor, high school dropouts and loved GOD, instead of sons who were successful doctors who had no time for GOD.

I'm not saying that kids should be uneducated, I'm just saying that no amount of education is going to save your children from Hell. So, just remember that their relationship with Christ is infinitely more important than their college diploma.

If a law like this one in California isn't challenged, then it's just a matter of time before parents will be deemed unfit by the State for teaching their children Biblical morality.

Finally, and this is the most important thing, we can pray. Pray for our leaders that GOD might direct their path and pray for a revival in our nation.

:cool: Some great stuff there. Thank you.