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matthughesfan21
12-19-2011, 03:13 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/north-korea-leader-kim-jong-il-died-15185456

rockdawg21
12-19-2011, 03:19 AM
Wow!

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5izIlSjdJ6OnbxnvsA8REol_H-PpA?docId=e4eb9efdbd884d2fbff01ada250d87de
North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, 69, has died

(AP) 5 minutes ago

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) Kim Jong Il, North Korea's mercurial and enigmatic leader, has died. He was 69.

Kim's death was announced Monday by state television from the North Korean capital, Pyongyang.

Kim is believed to have suffered a stroke in 2008 but appeared relatively vigorous in photos and video from recent trips to China and Russia and in numerous trips around the country carefully documented by state media.
The leader, reputed to have had a taste for cigars, cognac and gourmet cuisine, was believed to have had diabetes and heart disease.

The news came as North Korea prepared for a hereditary succession. Kim Jong Il inherited power after his father, revered North Korean founder Kim Il Sung, died in 1994.

In September 2010, Kim Jong Il unveiled his third son, the twenty-something Kim Jong Un, as his successor, putting him in high-ranking posts.

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

rockdawg21
12-19-2011, 07:29 AM
Oops! Guess I overlooked your post, I was 6 minutes after you:

http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=181093#post181093

rockdawg21
12-19-2011, 07:30 AM
Talk about an amazing year for political changes in our favor!

1. Ousting of Hosni Mubarak of Egypt
2. Death of Osama Bin Laden of a mansion in a suburb of the capital of Pakistan (WTF?)
3. Death of Muammar Gaddafi of Libya
4. Death of Kim Jong-Il of North Korea

Woot woot!

If we only had an election to get Obama out of office this year too! :laugh:

JavierDLC
12-19-2011, 03:31 PM
Talk about an amazing year for political changes in our favor!

1. Ousting of Hosni Mubarak of Egypt
2. Death of Osama Bin Laden of a mansion in a suburb of the capital of Pakistan (WTF?)
3. Death of Muammar Gaddafi of Libya
4. Death of Kim Jong-Il of North Korea

Woot woot!

If we only had an election to get Obama out of office this year too! :laugh:

1-4 I agree pretty good year :)

Do you Honestly Blame Obama for the Sh!@ hole Bush left us in??

Miss Foxy
12-19-2011, 04:22 PM
Negative Nancy reporting for duty.. As quick as this bastard left the Earth another lunatic will replace him.

rockdawg21
12-19-2011, 04:49 PM
1-4 I agree pretty good year :)

Do you Honestly Blame Obama for the Sh!@ hole Bush left us in??
No, but it was a stupid idea to immediately spend $787 billion of our money on corrupt companies who deserved to go out of business was certainly a good reason to want him out of office.

County Mike
12-19-2011, 06:25 PM
No, but it was a stupid idea to immediately spend $787 billion of our money on corrupt companies who deserved to go out of business was certainly a good reason to want him out of office.

Agreed!

NateR
12-19-2011, 06:57 PM
I have a feeling things might get worse in North Korea, at least initially. The son who takes over will want to prove that he's no pushover, so I expect a lot of threats and posturing that could come close to pushing us into another war.

VCURamFan
12-19-2011, 07:39 PM
I have a feeling things might get worse in North Korea, at least initially. The son who takes over will want to prove that he's no pushover, so I expect a lot of threats and posturing that could come close to pushing us into another war.
Agreed, unfortunately.

matthughesfan21
12-19-2011, 07:47 PM
No, but it was a stupid idea to immediately spend $787 billion of our money on corrupt companies who deserved to go out of business was certainly a good reason to want him out of office.
Absolutely agreed, but so was the bailout under Bush in 2008...Both of them sucked

flo
12-19-2011, 07:49 PM
Talk about an amazing year for political changes in our favor!

1. Ousting of Hosni Mubarak of Egypt
2. Death of Osama Bin Laden of a mansion in a suburb of the capital of Pakistan (WTF?)
3. Death of Muammar Gaddafi of Libya
4. Death of Kim Jong-Il of North Korea

Woot woot!

If we only had an election to get Obama out of office this year too! :laugh:

I agree with your list except for #1. Hosni Mubarak honored the Egypt-Israel peace treaty and kept relative calm in his country. Did you see what the Egyptian military did this weekend? Hitting protesters with pipes, stripping and stomping a woman, dragging them away by their hair? The Muslim Brotherhood is now the country's leading political force. Yes, they criticized the military over what happened this weekend but they have been allied with them until this latest violence and will do/say whatever it takes to cement their control over the country in the upcoming elections.

Mubarak was a dictator but so is Abdullah of Jordan and we hold him in pretty high esteem diplomatically and Jordan is an important ally of the US.

IMHO, these middle-east countries need a benevolent dictatorship to keep their crazies in line until they can ease into a more democratic-type government. It seems like these violent ousters are often replaced with something similar or worse.

flo
12-19-2011, 07:53 PM
Yeah, Bush's second term was a flop and he made some bad decisions. But Obama's decisions have exacerbated that feeble and teetering economy. We're sunk if he stays in office another 4 years.

But Miss Cleo says that ain't gonna happen. :)

matthughesfan21
12-19-2011, 08:03 PM
Yeah, Bush's second term was a flop and he made some bad decisions. But Obama's decisions have exacerbated that feeble and teetering economy. We're sunk if he stays in office another 4 years.

But Miss Cleo says that ain't gonna happen. :)

We are sunk either way. The republican candidates are terrible too. And regardless of political party, there is a problem in Washington and it involves the politicians being too cozy with lobbyists...In this day and age, the politicians care more about themselves and their friends than the do about thegood of the country and the people

rearnakedchoke
12-19-2011, 08:27 PM
I have a feeling things might get worse in North Korea, at least initially. The son who takes over will want to prove that he's no pushover, so I expect a lot of threats and posturing that could come close to pushing us into another war.

they were testing missiles the same day he died .. i'd say that is a sure sign ..

JavierDLC
12-19-2011, 09:22 PM
We are sunk either way. The republican candidates are terrible too. And regardless of political party, there is a problem in Washington and it involves the politicians being too cozy with lobbyists...In this day and age, the politicians care more about themselves and their friends than the do about thegood of the country and the people

Exactly I dont see anything the Republicans can do to make everything better..

flo
12-19-2011, 09:38 PM
We are sunk either way. The republican candidates are terrible too. And regardless of political party, there is a problem in Washington and it involves the politicians being too cozy with lobbyists...In this day and age, the politicians care more about themselves and their friends than the do about thegood of the country and the people

Exactly I dont see anything the Republicans can do to make everything better..

I disagree. Either way, time will tell. Hate 'em or love 'em, mhf21, but the leading Republican candidates have far more experience - both politicallly and in the business world - than the current CiC when he was running.

matthughesfan21
12-19-2011, 09:56 PM
I disagree. Either way, time will tell. Hate 'em or love 'em, mhf21, but the leading Republican candidates have far more experience - both politicallly and in the business world - than the current CiC when he was running.
Which candidate do you think would help? Honestly, unless you are just focusing on the (R) in front of their name, I don't see how you could be happy with any of those candidates

Romney is the most normal of any of them, but I'm not confident in him
Perry can't even remember his own policies
Gingrich is the definition of a hypocrite
Paul has some good ideas but some strange ones too, but I don't see him being able to unite Congress and get things passed (because let's not forget, even if the President has great ideas, he still needs Congress to work with him)
Bachmann----Enough said

flo
12-20-2011, 02:19 AM
Which candidate do you think would help?

Any. Any are better than what we have. I try not to let the media bias my judgement about the candidates, as they did with Sarah Palin. I try to base my opinions of them by their past performances, record and the debates.

My least favorite is Ron Paul. Although I agree with many of his libertarian views, I think his thoughts on America being isolationist is not a bit realistic.

NateR
12-20-2011, 03:36 AM
Absolutely agreed, but so was the bailout under Bush in 2008...Both of them sucked

That same bank bailout that Obama took time out of his campaign to vote for back in 2008. The fact that you place all the blame on Bush shows that you are guilty of the exact same bipartisan closed-mindedness that you are accusing flo of.

Anyways, I would say that the 2008 bailout was necessary to prevent a global financial collapse. Of course it was to fix a problem that NEVER should have existed in the first place - created by the notion that every American is "entitled" to own their own home. However, it was still necessary and, from what I understand, many banks have already paid back the money that they were given because they don't like the idea of being under the thumb of the federal government.

The financial problem that we are in right now is not going to be fixed by the government. In fact, all the government can do at this point is make things worse. It would help to have a more fiscally conservative President who actually knows how to handle money, however.

NateR
12-20-2011, 03:38 AM
Which candidate do you think would help? Honestly, unless you are just focusing on the (R) in front of their name, I don't see how you could be happy with any of those candidates

Romney is the most normal of any of them, but I'm not confident in him
Perry can't even remember his own policies
Gingrich is the definition of a hypocrite
Paul has some good ideas but some strange ones too, but I don't see him being able to unite Congress and get things passed (because let's not forget, even if the President has great ideas, he still needs Congress to work with him)
Bachmann----Enough said

I think you represent the epitome of the media-brainwashed youth in this country. :rolleyes:

matthughesfan21
12-20-2011, 03:48 AM
I think you represent the epitome of the media-brainwashed youth in this country. :rolleyes:I can say the same about you regarding republicans...The same way you spout about liberal bias, you have the same republican bias....I have no bias towards either party and have things I like and dislike regarding both. But I believe both parties both have their priorities in the wrong place.


But if you would be so kind, explain to me what you think of each candidate and why my opinion of them is wrong instead of automatically just calling me brainwashed instead of offering any real response.

What media brainwash am i suffering from? I've watched the debates, but I don't watch CNN, MSNBC, or Fox News,. So who exactly is brainwashing me?

NateR
12-20-2011, 04:02 AM
I can say the same about you regarding republicans...The same way you spout about liberal bias, you have the same republican bias....I have no bias towards either party and have things I like and dislike regarding both. But I believe both parties both have their priorities in the wrong place.


But if you would be so kind, explain to me what you think of each candidate and why my opinion of them is wrong instead of automatically just calling me brainwashed instead of offering any real response.

What media brainwash am i suffering from? I've watched the debates, but I don't watch CNN, MSNBC, or Fox News,. So who exactly is brainwashing me?

I haven't watched the debates because I don't have TV reception or cable. However, your "assessments" of the candidates seem to be taken right out of the media headlines. As if you just skimmed through the most popular, negative stories about each candidate in order to form your opinions.

I've never once claimed to be unbiased (I think anyone who does is a liar), so I am always upfront about my support of conservative candidates. That doesn't mean that I like everyone with an (R) after their name, but I will support those who stand up for the Biblical Christian values that this nation was founded upon.

flo
12-20-2011, 04:27 AM
I have no bias towards either party


Not to gang up on you, mhf21, but your statement below belies your statement above. :)

Which candidate do you think would help? Honestly, unless you are just focusing on the (R) in front of their name, I don't see how you could be happy with any of those candidates

Romney is the most normal of any of them, but I'm not confident in him
Perry can't even remember his own policies
Gingrich is the definition of a hypocrite
Paul has some good ideas but some strange ones too, but I don't see him being able to unite Congress and get things passed (because let's not forget, even if the President has great ideas, he still needs Congress to work with him)
Bachmann----Enough said

That last bit is particularly biased. "Enough said"? Why, exactly? Because she's a woman? Yes, she's made gaffes - as have Obama, Perry, Biden, Gingrich, etc., etc., - but she's a successful tax lawyer, legislator and has raised 23 children. I'd suggest that she's far and away more capable to address our country's problems than our current CiC.

Bonnie
12-20-2011, 05:13 AM
That last bit is particularly biased. "Enough said"? Why, exactly? Because she's a woman? Yes, she's made gaffes - as have Obama, Perry, Biden, Gingrich, etc., etc., - but she's a successful tax lawyer, legislator and has raised 23 children. I'd suggest that she's far and away more capable to address our country's problems than our current CiC.

I was wondering the same thing, Derek?

matthughesfan21
12-20-2011, 06:22 AM
I haven't watched the debates because I don't have TV reception or cable. However, your "assessments" of the candidates seem to be taken right out of the media headlines. As if you just skimmed through the most popular, negative stories about each candidate in order to form your opinions.

I've never once claimed to be unbiased (I think anyone who does is a liar), so I am always upfront about my support of conservative candidates. That doesn't mean that I like everyone with an (R) after their name, but I will support those who stand up for the Biblical Christian values that this nation was founded upon.My comments were made on my own observations...I don't think I was that harsh in my comments except for Gingrich and Bachmann. I said Romney seemed normal but I wasn't fully confident in him(I don't think that is bad, I just need to see more of him before I'm ready to form a full opinion, but he would be my favorite of the current candidates at the moment.

I said Paul had some good ideas and some strange ones that are far different than most politicians, and I mentioned his ability to work with Congress and get agreements(I think this is a fair concern due to his opinions being far different in certain areas)

Gingrich was a leader in condemning and impeaching Clinton during the Lewinsky scandal(which I don't disagree with, except it was a classic example of pot meet kettle) all while Gingrich was having an affair himself, he eventually left his wife in 1999 for his mistress(the wife had been diagnosed with MS), he also had an affair on his first wife with his mistress(his second wife). He served her the divorce papers while she was in the hospital undergoing cancer treatment. He has also spoken against politicians involvement with Freddie Mac and Fannie May, and it comes out that he received money himself....Those aren't the kind of morals and ethics I want in a president.

Rick Perry actually forgot one of his key policies during a debate, it lasted several minutes and was really awkward. You can easily find the video on youtube if you'd like to see for yourself.

Bachmann has said some pretty wacky things, and she has spoken hatefully at times and I don't think that is what we need right now. I don't trust her ability to lead a country. Oh and Bonnie and Flo, did I say anything about her gender? I assure you, I would say the same things if she had a penis

flo
12-20-2011, 08:00 AM
Bachmann has said some pretty wacky things, and she has spoken hatefully at times and I don't think that is what we need right now.

Like what? You mean the gaffe about the hometown of John Wayne? What hateful things?


Oh and Bonnie and Flo, did I say anything about her gender? I assure you, I would say the same things if she had a penis

You gave reasons for all the men on your list being unfit in your eyes to become president while stating "enough said" after Bachmann's name. I think many people would infer the same thing Bonnie and I did after reading your list which is why I asked you to clarify.

A couple things about your objections to Newt Gingrich; you do seem to be repeating Democrat talking points. It is totally untrue that he "served her the divorce papers while she was in the hospital undergoing cancer treatment". Here is a statement by their own daughter who was in the hospital room at the time:

Jackie Gingrich sets the record straight. (http://www.creators.com/conservative/jackie-gingrich-cushman/setting-the-record-straight.html)

Clinton was impeached by the House for lying under oath and obstruction of justice, not for having sex with Monica Lowinsky in the Oval Office. So that comparison is not valid. And he received money from Freddie Mac as a consultant - pretty common in DC. Should that prevent someone from speaking out about flawed legislation regarding Freddie and Fannie? I don't think it should.

I mean, he *is* flawed like they all are. They're human! But I think you're smearing them with a broad brush.

NateR
12-20-2011, 01:26 PM
What hateful things?


Yeah, I'd be very interested to know what he defines as "hateful."

Play The Man
12-20-2011, 02:17 PM
My least favorite is Ron Paul. Although I agree with many of his libertarian views, I think his thoughts on America being isolationist is not a bit realistic.

. . . not to mention the fact that he seems to act as a salt lick for nutters. :laugh:

VCURamFan
12-20-2011, 02:41 PM
. . . not to mention the fact that he seems to act as a salt lick for nutters. :laugh:
Hey, my buddy Nathan's a Ron Paul supporter & he's...totally wacko! :laugh:

County Mike
12-20-2011, 03:57 PM
Maybe we need some wacko with big ideas.

flo
12-20-2011, 08:50 PM
Sort of on topic:

Kim Jong-Il Looking at Things (http://kimjongillookingatthings.tumblr.com/page/2)

:)

rockdawg21
12-20-2011, 11:21 PM
I'm mostly saddened that the world has lost the best golfer of all time. You know his first time playing, he scored 11 aces and finished 18 holes with a score of -38. Just amazing!

http://www.anyonefortee.com/Shots/Pix/leaderboard.gif

J.B.
12-22-2011, 05:17 PM
For the record, I about pissed myself when I saw "Dear Leaderboard".....friggin classic

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMed0s15BVOfvWDaL3dCHAEk_sK3aPQ 7EBFid41HpyKel-aS9sBktjvlF1

Tyburn
12-22-2011, 10:55 PM
I have a feeling things might get worse in North Korea, at least initially. The son who takes over will want to prove that he's no pushover, so I expect a lot of threats and posturing that could come close to pushing us into another war.

If he doesnt, he may well face a Military Coup...Not sure that would be any better...at least all Kimmy has to do is look tough...

Plus....I think apart from probably chucking a few things in South Koreas direction, he wont dare do much else...China will stomp on him if he does...China may well stomp on North Korea if there is a Military Coup also.

It entirely depends on the new Kim :laugh: To tough and the Chinese will Stomp, to weak and his Generals will have him for breakfast...perhaps it would be a blessing in disguise for him to piss off the Peoples Republic of China...after all...they are so vast, we wouldnt notice the additional land mass.

Mindue...I had to laugh at Kim Jong Il...being surrounded by a heavy set begonia called Kimjongillia :laugh:

Tyburn
12-22-2011, 11:53 PM
Talk about an amazing year for political changes in our favor!

1. Ousting of Hosni Mubarak of Egypt


That is NOT a good thing.

Hosni might have been a despot, but he was minor by most standards, and pro-western...and secular.

Now you are about to get The Muslim Brotherhood democratically ellected and imposing Sharia Law....The Coptic Christians got a nasty suprise when they thought freedom from Mubarak would mean Freedom for them...Nope...it means the exact opposite.

Same with Libya...what the West has failed to learn from this is that the removal of a tyrant does not always mean things will be better for the people. The installation of a Democrasy does not equate to a Secular or Christian Republic.

Democrasy only allows the majority to win. Democrasy in England was responsible for Re-Instatement of a King after the English Civil War...and as we will see next year, in a majority Muslim Country...if you ask them to vote, dont be supprised if they all choose to impose upon themselves the very constraints the west view as anti-freedom. This Arab Spring is likely to remove a load of dictators who, however evil, we holding back a tide of Islamic Fundementalism, that you will now discover is what people in that culture wished for. THEIR Freedom...NOT OURS.

In the case of Egypt, We've lost a "friend" and will probably gain an enemy. Not to mention the fact that Israel now has a SERIOUS threat if Egypt becomes a Fundementalist Islamic State.

Dictatorships may not be good for the people who live under them...but sometimes for all its preaching about freedoms, the west actually doesnt have to worry about the dictator that rules with an iron fist and keeps his Country from being a threat or a terror to others. A Benign Dictatorship...of which their are almost none left...can actually be positively good. Sometimes its only a dictator that can hold a country together, and on their deaths the country falls apart and wars within itself because the barrier that installed discipline and forced warring factions to work together has vanished.

Also...I love how the West abandoned Mubarak, who they did business with...and completely ignore Syria who they dont like.

We all know that noone will touch Robert Mugabe because he is within the Commonwealth, and we all know what Her Majesty did when last the United States saw a commonwealth country as a threat and invaded, dont we :laugh:

Meanwhile...in England our concern is being drawn once again to the Falkland Islands...they are constantly being threatened by Argentina, yet again! So much so, today the British Government began work on a hypothetical scenario of military defence of the Islands in todays environment, indicating for the first time in 29 years, they believe that war may be a possibility once again...

Play The Man
12-23-2011, 08:56 AM
This image will tell you all you need to know about North Korea and communism in general:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/images/dprk-dmsp-dark-old.jpg

The dark area at the top is North Korea at night. There are essentially no lights because the industrial output of North Korea is anemic and practically non-existent. Many of the people are reduced to eating bark off the trees. If N. Korea wasn't subsidized by China and Russia and didn't have an income from selling missile technology, it would be in even worse straits. In contrast, since the Korean conflict, South Korea has prospered. South Korea is full of lights. It is the home of Kia, Samsung and LG. The world has provided an experiment - one people, ethnically the same, split into a communist country and a country more open to economic freedom. This satellite image shows the results of the experiment.

As an aside, the recently-departed Christopher Hitchens wrote about "How Religion Poisons Everything". It should be noted that Albania and North Korea are the only two countries to officially exterminate all religious buildings and institutions from their countries. Until 1988, N. Korea did not have any churches or temples. There are now a few token buildings, run by spies, for photo ops. If "Religion Poisons Everything", why is one of the few countries able to entirely exterminate any form of organized religion, such a basket case? And why does such a country have a cult-like devotion to its leader?

NateR
12-23-2011, 05:24 PM
That picture says it all.

As an aside, the recently-departed Christopher Hitchens wrote about "How Religion Poisons Everything". It should be noted that Albania and North Korea are the only two countries to officially exterminate all religious buildings and institutions from their countries. Until 1988, N. Korea did not have any churches or temples. There are now a few token buildings, run by spies, for photo ops. If "Religion Poisons Everything", why is one of the few countries able to entirely exterminate any form of organized religion, such a basket case? And why does such a country have a cult-like devotion to its leader?

The only reason any government would want to exterminate religion is because it doesn't want the competition. Totalitarian governments want to take the place of GOD in people's hearts and minds.

In addition to demonstrating why Communism is inferior to capitalism, North Korea is a perfect picture of what eventually happens when people are "freed" from religion.

Tyburn
12-23-2011, 07:07 PM
This image will tell you all you need to know about North Korea and communism in general:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/images/dprk-dmsp-dark-old.jpg



The thing that makes me question this photograph, is first, that with the rest of North Korea being so dark...their Capital should stick out like a sore thumb, for it is where the wealth of the entire nation is spent. Indictive also you would expect the Military Bases to be extremely well lit, as these are the only two things the Dynasty have spent any money on. Yet I do not see the Capital...and I see no sign of light from any military bases.

Now I suppose one could say that from such a height those two would not be shown since they are too small.

but that big chunk of China thats depicted north of the boarder...why is that the same colour as North Korea...are you telling me that even in a state of poverty there is no large Chinese City in that area.:huh:

I dont doubt the ethos of what your saying...but that photograph I think is not as accurate as its maybe being made out to be.:ninja: Secondly, there is actually no such thing as a Communist State because Communism doesnt work when applied to more then about a hundred people....its so far removed it actually isnt Communism at all. The only true communism on the planet exists in small religious communities, often Christian, and the Kabbutz...both of which only govern their own and are governed over by authorities in whose lands they are.

Play The Man
12-23-2011, 09:27 PM
The thing that makes me question this photograph, is first, that with the rest of North Korea being so dark...their Capital should stick out like a sore thumb, for it is where the wealth of the entire nation is spent. Indictive also you would expect the Military Bases to be extremely well lit, as these are the only two things the Dynasty have spent any money on. Yet I do not see the Capital...and I see no sign of light from any military bases.

Now I suppose one could say that from such a height those two would not be shown since they are too small.

but that big chunk of China thats depicted north of the boarder...why is that the same colour as North Korea...are you telling me that even in a state of poverty there is no large Chinese City in that area.:huh:

I dont doubt the ethos of what your saying...but that photograph I think is not as accurate as its maybe being made out to be.:ninja: Secondly, there is actually no such thing as a Communist State because Communism doesnt work when applied to more then about a hundred people....its so far removed it actually isnt Communism at all. The only true communism on the planet exists in small religious communities, often Christian, and the Kabbutz...both of which only govern their own and are governed over by authorities in whose lands they are.

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/19/9564314-satellites-document-north-koreas-dark-ages

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/111219-holiday-korea1-120p.photoblog900.jpg

This iconic "Earth at Night" picture is based on data gathered by military satellites in 1994-1995, just after Kim inherited power from his late father, Kim Il Sung. The darkness shows how much North Korea has lagged behind its neighbors South Korea, China, Russia and Japan in electrification and industrial development. Updates of the data sets show that there's been no change in North Korea's city-light situation between 1992 and 2009. Check out NOAA's "Science on a Sphere" webpage for more about the "Earth at Night" satellite data project.

Tyburn
12-27-2011, 11:41 AM
http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/19/9564314-satellites-document-north-koreas-dark-ages

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/111219-holiday-korea1-120p.photoblog900.jpg

:laugh: that shows better...although I still dont see the wealthy capital :unsure-1: