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billwilliams70
03-14-2009, 01:28 PM
In another thread, Chuck asked me the following question:
Do you think the PRIDE fighters were over rated?
I gave him the following answer:
Yeah. I was really thinking that Pride had the superior fighters, but it really seems otherwise.

There isn't a single Pride fighter in the UFC now that has made the impact that anyone thought they would. I think that Rampage has had the most success out of all of them, correct me if I'm wrong.

Later.
I thought it would make for an interesting poll and new thread, since the original thread (that the question/answer was posted in) was about Chuck Liddell.

Your thoughts?

Later.

lc87
03-14-2009, 04:17 PM
The only one that have had any real success is rampage.

Nog beat tim and looked horrible against herring and mir

Chonan looked horrible against karo.

Henderson lost to page and anderson then beat palaheras and franklin. And the franklin wasn't too clear he really won.

Herring wasn't really up to par in any of his fights.

Irish Pride
03-14-2009, 05:13 PM
Anderson Silva was a Pride and Cage Rage fighter. He's doing just fine. :punch:

billwilliams70
03-14-2009, 06:12 PM
Anderson Silva was a Pride and Cage Rage fighter. He's doing just fine. :punch:
Silva's last two fights, prior to signing with the UFC in APR 06 were in Cage Rage.

I don't consider him a Pride fighter that came over when Zuffa acquired Pride in MAR 07.

But, that's just me......and my two lincolns.

Later.

NateR
03-14-2009, 06:32 PM
Did they even test for steroids or performance enhancing drugs in Pride? That could explain why so many top Pride fighters seemed to hit a wall as soon as they entered the UFC.

que
03-14-2009, 06:34 PM
generally speaking, yes

Llamafighter
03-14-2009, 06:37 PM
I think Crocop is the only Pridefighter to disappoint me in the UFC.Hendo's first two fights were title fights. I wouldn't consider Anderson a Pride fighter either. he only fought 5 times for them.

matthughesfan21
03-14-2009, 06:49 PM
I think Crocop is the only Pridefighter to disappoint me in the UFC.Hendo's first two fights were title fights. I wouldn't consider Anderson a Pride fighter either. he only fought 5 times for them.I'd put Nog and Wandy in the disappointing categories as well, I still think Fedor would clean out the HW division, but all the other superstars haven't lived up to there potential except for Rampage, but he wasn't considered on the same level as the shoguns or wandy's back in the pride days...I'd say for the most part: overrated

que
03-14-2009, 06:49 PM
I think Crocop is the only Pridefighter to disappoint me in the UFC.Hendo's first two fights were title fights. I wouldn't consider Anderson a Pride fighter either. he only fought 5 times for them.
5 times is enough to call him a pride fighter. people fight in UFC once and they are called UFC fighters.


what about shogun?

medic92
03-14-2009, 08:34 PM
I don't think they were overrated, I just think most of them underestimated the difficulty transitioning from Pride to the UFC. Going from no elbows to elbows allowed, from knees on the ground to no knees on the ground, from stomping a downed opponent to not being able to, etc...

The cardio issue with the majority of Pride fighters is what confused me. They were used to fighting a 10 minute first round and I thought their cardio would be as good or better than UFC fighters.

Of course the game plan for a 10 minute round and a five minute round is another issue that could affect the Pride fighters, not to mention getting used to an Octagon instead of a ring and the referees' predisposition to standing fighters up much sooner in the UFC.

We'll see how they adjust as they go on. I think Shogun is going to get killed by Liddell, he's never seemed to figure out how to work on cardio and he'll gas in the first few minutes. If I were Liddell I'd make Shogun defend takedowns for the entire first round, then take him apart standing in the second.

How's that for an extended way to say that I don't think they're overrated, just having trouble adjusting? :)

bj44
03-14-2009, 08:35 PM
people are dumb its not that they were overatted its that the sport has continued to evolve

look at the people who were on top at the time of the pride buyout in the ufc. They arnt champions anymore either. people were comparing pride fighters to chuck, randy, hughes , franklin. Not the anderson silva's, gsp's , Brock lesnars of mma

cro cop, nog, wanderlei etc arnt in there prime anymore

Llamafighter
03-14-2009, 08:35 PM
5 times is enough to call him a pride fighter. people fight in UFC once and they are called UFC fighters.


what about shogun?

Silva fought more in other promotions outside of pride in his pre UFC tear.
Cage Rage 4X
Pride 5X
ROTR 1X
Meca Vale Tudo 5X

Yeah I forgot about SHogun. In some ways I rationalize his down turn as being primarily injury related.

Nate, I don't think the drug tests (if any) were consistant or thorough.

Wandy is nearing the end of his career (a career full of bareknuckle fights that took their toll on him) and Nog is 2-1. I think/hopeb we'll see a better NOg in the next fight.

Tyburn
03-15-2009, 12:03 AM
For the purposes of this thread. Yes.

There is no rule that says that pride fighters are rubbish. BUT Pride opporated under a different set or rules, a different time length of round, and it used a ring and not a cage.

That might explain why some Pride Fighters havent done so well.

Anderson Silva wasnt essentially a Pride Fighter. He did NOT start off in Pride, and his home instituion used a cage, and not a ring. thats an advantage. The first time he stepped into the Zuffa Sponcered Octagon...he'd already stepped into an Octagon sponcered by Cage Rage many years previous.

Crop cop was probably the biggest dissapointment. Rua...he might be able to bounce back...Nog...well I dont know...and Dennis Kang...oh...gutted about that one :sad:

cheachea
03-15-2009, 02:58 AM
I still like Crocop. He was one of the only guys that gave Fedor a challenge and made him work the whole fight. I think he will do alot better in the future ufc fights.

Hughes_GOAT
03-15-2009, 03:03 AM
Pride guys are not in their primes anymore. Rampage is doing fine because he's still young. Shogun had a bum knee and shouldn't have fought Forrest. his Coleman fight was lame but he said he was just starting to get back into shape. we'll see how he does against Chuck? and it's not like the UFC guys were tearing it up when they went to Pride. fighters age, evolve, lots of things contribute to this.

Hughes_GOAT
03-15-2009, 03:03 AM
I still like Crocop. He was one of the only guys that gave Fedor a challenge and made him work the whole fight. I think he will do alot better in the future ufc fights.

Fedor also had one hand since the other was broke.

billwilliams70
03-15-2009, 09:07 AM
people are dumb its not that they were overatted its that the sport has continued to evolve

look at the people who were on top at the time of the pride buyout in the ufc. They arnt champions anymore either. people were comparing pride fighters to chuck, randy, hughes , franklin. Not the anderson silva's, gsp's , Brock lesnars of mma

cro cop, nog, wanderlei etc arnt in there prime anymore
Whoa, slow down killer....no need to call people dumb. The sport of MMA has continued to evolve, but there's still a difference in the fighters that came over to the UFC from Pride (in the March 2007 buyout). It has nothing to do with evolving.

It's true that the fighters that were on top of the UFC at the time of the buyout are no longer champions, but they weren't taken out by the Pride guys (as many thought would be the case).

I know that certain fighters aren't in their prime, but Cro Cop wasn't taken down because he was out of his prime, he was not as good as Gonzaga on the ground and it showed. Wandy loses by a vicious knockout to Rampage and all of a sudden he's out of his prime......just seven months after viciously knocking out Keith Jardine and being "back".

Later.

rockdawg21
03-15-2009, 02:53 PM
Yes

Josh
03-15-2009, 04:39 PM
Many pride fighters are at the end of a great career also. Chuck for instance was steamrolling people when Silva was also at his top. I would say the b level fighters were top rated (actually being c level) but the A level guys no.

Max
03-15-2009, 10:01 PM
Silva's last two fights, prior to signing with the UFC in APR 06 were in Cage Rage.

I don't consider him a Pride fighter that came over when Zuffa acquired Pride in MAR 07.

But, that's just me......and my two lincolns.

Later.
If you dont count his fights in the UFC Silva had had the most fights in PRIDE and Mecca (5 fights in each). He has had 4 fights in Cage Rage. So when he came over to the UFC he was more a PRIDE fighter or Mecca fighter than anything else. Both Rampage and Cro Cop came over to the UFC before the UFC bought PRIDE but they are still PRIDE. Also people need to remember that many of PRIDE's big champs are now starting to get old or are not even in the UFC.

Llamafighter
03-15-2009, 10:40 PM
Fedor also had one hand since the other was broke.

And he still won the standup game!

Hughes_GOAT
03-16-2009, 12:35 AM
I know that certain fighters aren't in their prime, but Cro Cop wasn't taken down because he was out of his prime, he was not as good as Gonzaga on the ground and it showed. Wandy loses by a vicious knockout to Rampage and all of a sudden he's out of his prime......just seven months after viciously knocking out Keith Jardine and being "back".

Later.

Cro Cop didn't train the cage or elbows, Couture and the guys mentioned that. if anything, it was arrogance. Cop beats him 9 x out of 10. Wandy was KTFO brutally, twice, in a 5 month span before Page got him. so he was put to sleep 3 times in less than a year and a half.

his brain is obviously damaged. you can't take those shots and come back so soon. and i never thought he was back just because he KO'd Jardine.

he's been in some battles too. no gloves, headbutts, elbows, etc. you can only take so much punishment. and Page is a Pride guy anyway :laugh: