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Tyburn
08-12-2011, 09:25 PM
yes...those people who had their flats distroyed by fire from the looting...and whose houses dont exist anymore...the British Banks are still demanding they pay their mortgages :angry:

Britain's banking giants were slammed yesterday for refusing to help the innocent victims of the riots.
For many, the iconic image of the violence was the burning Carpetright building in Tottenham, North London, and the flats above the shop.
But it emerged yesterday that residents whose homes were gutted in the blaze are still being forced to pay their mortgage.
Wrecked: The burnt out shell of Tottenham's Carpetright building. Residents of the flats above have been denied a break in mortgage payments
Speaking exclusively to the Daily Mail, the housing association's chief executive said he is 'livid' and 'appalled by' the banks' behaviour.
Bill Payne, 56, said: 'The country came to the assistance of the banks when the industry was collapsing. It does not leave a pleasant taste in the mouth that they won't come to our help now.
'I think their behaviour is hard-nosed, insensitive and immoral.'

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One victim, who has lost everything, said she is 'disgusted' by the way she has been treated by her bank.
Mr Payne runs Metropolitan Housing Partnership, which operates the 26 shared ownership flats in the block.
Under this scheme, the homeowner has a mortgage for a percentage of the property, and pays rent to the housing association for the rest of it.
Many of the victims have called their bank to ask to be let off paying their mortgage for a month or two to give them some breathing space.
And many have been refused, a response that he found staggering given the terrible trauma which they have suffered.
It comes at a time when they will need every spare bit of money to replace goods destroyed in Saturday's fire, even if they are covered by insurance in the long term.
'I think their behaviour is hard-nosed, insensitive and immoral'

Bill Payne, housing association chiefSome are also losing out on income because they are too traumatised to return to work. Mr Payne said he had immediately decided to waive all the rent which the residents of the block, River Heights, were due to pay him.
He is also paying their hotel bills, and doing everything else possible to assist the residents, who include families with young children.
He said: 'They are calling the banks to say, “My home has been burned to the ground”.
'And the bank just says, “You've got to keep paying your mortgage. It is up to you to pay”.'
Earlier in the week, Rosie Patousa, who lived in one of the flats, told how she managed to escape the burning building with minutes to spare.
She said: 'I saw flames coming up the building. As we were trying to get out alive, a white man was coming out of Carpetright with a rug over his shoulder, laughing.'
She said she managed to leave the area with just the clothes on her back.
Homeless: Rosie Patousa managed to escape her burning home with just the clothes on her back
During emergency meetings of the residents, organised by MHP, Mr Payne said residents have been in tears, shaking and hugging each other.
Mr Payne added: 'There are people who are not sure if they can ever go back to work because they are so traumatised.'
One female resident left homeless by the fire has spoken of her outrage at her mortgage lender, Woolwich, part of Barclays.
Despite losing her home and all her belongings in the arson attack, she is being forced to keep up with her £661 monthly payments for her flat.
The woman in her 20s, who is staying with relatives, said: 'I asked Woolwich for a payment holiday.
'I wasn't trying to get out of paying my mortgage. I just wanted a month or two so I could get myself sorted because the flat has been destroyed and I've been left homeless.
'They just refused to help because they didn't feel the fact that the flat is not even there was a valid reason.
'I think it is disgusting. The whole country can see what we've been through. You would expect some compassion at a time like this. We've all been left homeless and everything we've owned has gone.
'You would expect the banking industry, who the people of this country have bailed out time and time again, would show us a little compassion.'
Enlarge Other residents have declined to be named as they speak out about their difficulties with mortgage-lenders in fear of provoking further ill-treatment.
Some residents have been more fortunate, with their bank immediately offering to help.
Yesterday a spokesman for Barclays said: 'We are dealing with it on a case by case basis, and we are obviously being sympathetic.'
A spokesman for the Association of British Insurers confirmed a homeowner is legally obliged to continue paying their mortgage, even if the flat burns down.
Their buildings insurance, which is a legal requirement for everybody who has a mortgage, only covers the rebuild costs of the property.
Mr Payne said it is likely to take about two years to rebuild the River Heights block of flats.
But he said many residents have told him that they have no intention of returning because it would bring back such terrible memories.

rockdawg21
08-13-2011, 12:50 AM
No surprise there. Banks aren't there to help people, just commit legal robbery.

TexasRN
08-13-2011, 11:47 AM
The banks will go under if they don't get paid back for the money they loaned out. American banks don't just let you stop paying your mortgage if your house is destroyed. That's why you have insurance.


~Amy

Neezar
08-13-2011, 12:46 PM
A spokesman for the Association of British Insurers confirmed a homeowner is legally obliged to continue paying their mortgage, even if the flat burns down.
Their buildings insurance, which is a legal requirement for everybody who has a mortgage, only covers the rebuild costs of the property.
Mr Payne said it is likely to take about two years to rebuild the River Heights block of flats.
But he said many residents have told him that they have no intention of returning because it would bring back such terrible memories.


Our insurance would pay our mortgage if something like this happened.
Why would this insurance be required if you have a mortgage but not cover the mortgage?

Tyburn
08-13-2011, 02:43 PM
Our insurance would pay our mortgage if something like this happened.
Why would this insurance be required if you have a mortgage but not cover the mortgage?

Because Its Building insurance...you dont have mortgage insurance...because if you had the money to insure, you have the money to pay.

Amy...they are not asking for the bills to be written off, they are asking, effectively for more time to pay...because the insurance wont cover it, and it might be a while before they can work, and it will be their employment that funds the mortgage.

No...I am sorry...but it was the banks and their Greedy sordid little money making tricks that caused the reccession in the first place, that has led to people being tense, life being more difficult, and ultimately, this mindless vandalism is because people are so angry they need to just let off steam. This hasnt happened to everyone...its probably less then 500 people who have lost their home...NO Bank is going to go under for aggreeing to suspend payments for a Quarter for that few people.

Also...I dont think you realize that in England, a lot of these Banks are nationalized, and that was as a DIRECT consequence of the 2008 wall street wobble. So these people who pay taxes to the government...some of that tax money went into stabalizing the banks...Its not too much to ask that they hold back on payment deadlines for a few people for a few months.

Only Banking insitutions and the Government would see this request as unreasonable...and its all just for Greed....considering these are the two institutions, both in my country, and in yours, to inflict this situation onto people like myself, and you, to be unashamed and largely unappologetic, to not quite understand why people have a problem with them still raking in so much money...and then to refuse the reasonable request of freezing the mortgages of a few people, for a few months, whose homes have vanished thanks to mindless violence...is outrageous...as is the notion of anyone who isnt appauled by reading this.

It may not be true in America, you may pay taxes for shytes and giggles, I dont know...but in England we pay for certain insitutions to protect and help us. We pay each month, taxes to the emergency service, specifically so, in the event of something like the riots, they protect us. If they fail to do so...its not just an unfortunate situation, its basically that someone isnt getting what they are paying for.

I give a foolish example...but you'll get the idea. So a person will pay around about 100 to 150 pounds (double that for your currency) per month in council tax. One of the Services that we expect to get in return is refuse collection. We expect that each week, a van will come down the street and it will collect our rubbish. This is not something the council does out of the kindness of its heart, it is something that we pay for. Last year the winter was bad, and the vans didnt collect in some areas for three weeks. One little old lady told me how she had phoned the council, and how they replied that her bins were "not a priority" to which she replied "if I refuse to pay my council tax next month, will they become a priority then?"

We dont pay taxes for fun. Taxes ARE our insurance from the Government that they will look after us. Its simple retail. Now when a bank goes bust and the Government have to step in a fund it...they use OUR taxes to do that...which is fine, thats their business...but then to approach these banks less then five years later for reasonable help...and to be turned down...their existance in this land is thanks to our funds...I do not perceive that as apt gratitude and it makes me enourmously rage filled.

TexasRN
08-13-2011, 06:53 PM
I guess I won't understand the British way of doing things. America makes much more sense to me. I even have insurance for my car so that if I die or become an invalid through some bizarre accident, my car will be paid off in full. Same goes for the mortgage I had with my ex on our house. If the house was destroyed by fire or hurricane, it would be paid off and I could rebuild or move. My taxes have nothing to do with my bills.


~Amy

Tyburn
08-14-2011, 01:01 PM
I guess I won't understand the British way of doing things. America makes much more sense to me. I even have insurance for my car so that if I die or become an invalid through some bizarre accident, my car will be paid off in full. Same goes for the mortgage I had with my ex on our house. If the house was destroyed by fire or hurricane, it would be paid off and I could rebuild or move. My taxes have nothing to do with my bills.


~Amy

Yes...see that is a BIG difference. In England we believe that our Taxes are basically payment for Government Services...and lots of Britons view that directly as Retail. We pay money to our Government FOR THEM TO SUPPLY US WITH SOMETHING. Yes its a compulsory payment...we HAVE to pay even if we dont want a service...BUT because we have to pay we get VERY angry when we do...and something happens...and they dont do as they should.

If you paid for your fire department to save you...and when your house caught fire, they didnt turn up...Our Taxes are basically viewed as insurance...maybe its protection, maybe its health care...but we expect services from the government in return for taxes...we dont pay them for nothing...and its when things go wrong, usually that they have to do a good job...Thats why people are so angry at the police...They paid for the police to protect them in any eventuality....and for many in London and Birmingham, who pay a tax each month to insure their safety in the event of something like what happened...for it to happen, and the police not to do a good job...well...it makes them dissapointed.

In America one of the things I found strange was that Value Added Tax was not included in the price. So you sit for a coffee at $1 and end up paying $1.50 and that extra is in tax...in England the original price includes all taxes.

Buzzard
08-14-2011, 01:38 PM
Yes...see that is a BIG difference. In England we believe that our Taxes are basically payment for Government Services...and lots of Britons view that directly as Retail. We pay money to our Government FOR THEM TO SUPPLY US WITH SOMETHING. Yes its a compulsory payment...we HAVE to pay even if we dont want a service...BUT because we have to pay we get VERY angry when we do...and something happens...and they dont do as they should.

If you paid for your fire department to save you...and when your house caught fire, they didnt turn up...Our Taxes are basically viewed as insurance...maybe its protection, maybe its health care...but we expect services from the government in return for taxes...we dont pay them for nothing...and its when things go wrong, usually that they have to do a good job...Thats why people are so angry at the police...They paid for the police to protect them in any eventuality....and for many in London and Birmingham, who pay a tax each month to insure their safety in the event of something like what happened...for it to happen, and the police not to do a good job...well...it makes them dissapointed.

In America one of the things I found strange was that Value Added Tax was not included in the price. So you sit for a coffee at $1 and end up paying $1.50 and that extra is in tax...in England the original price includes all taxes.

I don't count on the police to protect me, I'm prepared to protect myself until the police are able to respond. Too bad the good folks weren't allowed to be armed to protect themselves. I believe too many people don't take care of themselves and rely on others to protect them, feed them, house them etc.

If your employer came into some hard times, would you work for a few months without pay until they were able to resume paying you?

County Mike
08-14-2011, 01:52 PM
So Dave, this is your scenario?

I loan you money to buy something and you agree to pay me back over time.
Somebody destroys the item you purchased with my money.
You think that means you no longer owe me the money or that I should be willing to let you skip a few payments?

Doesn't work like that. You pay up or you end up even more broke, if you know what I mean.

bradwright
08-14-2011, 03:54 PM
So Dave, this is your scenario?

I loan you money to buy something and you agree to pay me back over time.
Somebody destroys the item you purchased with my money.
You think that means you no longer owe me the money or that I should be willing to let you skip a few payments?

Doesn't work like that. You pay up or you end up even more broke, if you know what I mean.

:laugh:....good one.

Tyburn
08-14-2011, 04:29 PM
I don't count on the police to protect me, I'm prepared to protect myself until the police are able to respond. Too bad the good folks weren't allowed to be armed to protect themselves. I believe too many people don't take care of themselves and rely on others to protect them, feed them, house them etc.

If your employer came into some hard times, would you work for a few months without pay until they were able to resume paying you?

We dont defend ourselves as a matter of law. If we defended ourselves we wouldnt need the police would we. :laugh:

if my Store got burned to the Ground, I would not expect the Store to pay me the same ammount for doing nothing whilst the Store was shut. If they said they would only be able to pay everyone half for three months, and then the store would reopen and pay and job would resume as normal...then that would be fine by me.

The Government would pick up the tab in the mean time. :wink: Because they are supposed to look after me in certain circumstances. If I cant work, and it fits a criteria of theres, particularly if its only short term...they would have no quarms of paying me enough to cover basic expenses like rent, possibly bills etc.

If your store burned down...you'd be screwed :laugh:

Tyburn
08-14-2011, 04:41 PM
So Dave, this is your scenario?

I loan you money to buy something and you agree to pay me back over time.
Somebody destroys the item you purchased with my money.
You think that means you no longer owe me the money or that I should be willing to let you skip a few payments?

Doesn't work like that. You pay up or you end up even more broke, if you know what I mean.

Skip afew payments in time...not value...and you can add interest on that time. Thats the morally correct thing to do if you can afford to...and dont tell me a multinational bank, cant afford to put off the payments of less then fifty odd customers per bank for three odd months.

YOU personally might not be able to afford to defer the charges...but you are a single person...not a multinational company.

As for your other bit...if you attacked me and succeeded...I sell my story to the paper on how the local police force which I pay for didnt defend me, then I take you to court and claim damages...Double pay cheque for me. I'm sure I can take a small amount of physical punishment from the likes of you, to claim some stupid ammount for psychological trauma...or whatever the most idiotic thing a court can uphold is :laugh:

:wink:

If you attack me and kill me...you win :unsure-1: you get to sell your story on how when you went to attack me, I defended myself, and injured you slightly, and thats not fair, coz you have human rights also...then you go to court and claim damages from my estate for the damage I did to you whilst you were killing me. Then you get sent to prison, Murder...ohhh say about twenty five years...now halve that coz we dont have the money or room to keep you...so twelve years...halve that for good behaviour, six years...now bear in mind youve been locked up in custody for a year prior to court...so five years.

During that five years you spend no money so your savings on my death improve in a nice Cash ISA, You dont have to pay rent, you dont have to pay tax, your meals are healthy and provided regularly...and you get to meet loads of friends who can tell you how next time you kill, you can get away with it...unless you'd rather come back to the cushy number you're in.

Four years in, you go for an appeal, to the European Court of Human Rights...and coz they have a superiority complex they free you right away...so you then go to court for false imprisonment....another big pay day for you.

Yeah....you think I'm kidding...but i'm not. Thats how bad it is in England :sad:

NateR
08-14-2011, 05:18 PM
If you attack me and kill me...you win :unsure-1: you get to sell your story on how when you went to attack me, I defended myself, and injured you slightly, and thats not fair, coz you have human rights also...then you go to court and claim damages from my estate for the damage I did to you whilst you were killing me. Then you get sent to prison, Murder...ohhh say about twenty five years...now halve that coz we dont have the money or room to keep you...so twelve years...halve that for good behaviour, six years...now bear in mind youve been locked up in custody for a year prior to court...so five years.

During that five years you spend no money so your savings on my death improve in a nice Cash ISA, You dont have to pay rent, you dont have to pay tax, your meals are healthy and provided regularly...and you get to meet loads of friends who can tell you how next time you kill, you can get away with it...unless you'd rather come back to the cushy number you're in.

Four years in, you go for an appeal, to the European Court of Human Rights...and coz they have a superiority complex they free you right away...so you then go to court for false imprisonment....another big pay day for you.

Yeah....you think I'm kidding...but i'm not. Thats how bad it is in England :sad:

Now do you understand why so many Americans support the death penalty for crimes like murder?

flo
08-14-2011, 06:18 PM
So Dave, this is your scenario?

I loan you money to buy something and you agree to pay me back over time.
Somebody destroys the item you purchased with my money.
You think that means you no longer owe me the money or that I should be willing to let you skip a few payments?

Doesn't work like that. You pay up or you end up even more broke, if you know what I mean.

Well said, CM. :happy0159:

Tyburn
08-14-2011, 06:51 PM
Now do you understand why so many Americans support the death penalty for crimes like murder?

I support the death penalty for crimes like Murder....but our Government banished capital punishment...and your Government lets your convicts die of old age before being executed (a slight exaggeration...but it generally tends to take years)

Mark
08-15-2011, 01:06 AM
I believe too many people don't take care of themselves and rely on others to protect them, feed them, house them etc.

The goverment brain washes people to think that.

Buzzard
08-15-2011, 08:06 AM
The goverment brain washes people to think that.

I disagree. I think they are lazy on their own.

rearnakedchoke
08-15-2011, 01:42 PM
this is terrible .. the banks should provide loan forgiveness to all these people and totally wipe out their debt .. in fact, anyone who has any sort of tragedy happen to them should just have to go to the bank and have all their debt removed .. it's the least the banks could do ... it may not make good business sense, but think of all the good things people will think of the banks, everyone would love them ..

DonnaMaria
08-15-2011, 03:33 PM
Define a tragedy..........

Would a deadbeat husbandr count as a tragedy? I have had cars repossessed, had my electric turned off and my home forclosed because my spouse gambled all our money away. My credit score is horrible and I have to rebuild my credit all over again. I finally was able to get a loan again but my credit terms are outrageous. I'm paying the highest percentage because of his mistakes. My money is my own now but I am STILL paying off our joint debts because he doesn't CARE if he pays his share. But the only way that MY name will be cleared is by paying off the debt entirely. Banks have no sympathy for me. They just want their money. And I understand that. But it still sucks.

I have always had tons of insurance but never anything to protect me from HIM! And he ended up being the most dangerous thing in my life.

rearnakedchoke
08-15-2011, 05:14 PM
Define a tragedy..........

Would a deadbeat husbandr count as a tragedy? I have had cars repossessed, had my electric turned off and my home forclosed because my spouse gambled all our money away. My credit score is horrible and I have to rebuild my credit all over again. I finally was able to get a loan again but my credit terms are outrageous. I'm paying the highest percentage because of his mistakes. My money is my own now but I am STILL paying off our joint debts because he doesn't CARE if he pays his share. But the only way that MY name will be cleared is by paying off the debt entirely. Banks have no sympathy for me. They just want their money. And I understand that. But it still sucks.

I have always had tons of insurance but never anything to protect me from HIM! And he ended up being the most dangerous thing in my life.

yeah .. i was kidding though .. but maybe you are just humouring me .. LOL

DonnaMaria
08-15-2011, 05:40 PM
yeah .. i was kidding though .. but maybe you are just humouring me .. LOL

yeah........I know you were.:) I guess I wasn't "joking" per se.......just bringing up another point for Dave. Life is filled with things that absolutely suck. And it isn't fair. But such is life.

I don't want debt forgiveness.......what I want is a bail out!!!! If the big banks can get one then I should be able to get one too! :w00t:

DonnaMaria
08-15-2011, 05:45 PM
AND it would have been better off for me if someone had looted my house and then burned it to the ground. I have insurance for that! :laugh: But they don't have insurance to protect you from a spouse with an addiction.

Life sucks! :laugh: That's why I'm glad heaven awaits me at the end of it all!!!

If it wasn't for my kids I would skydive......base jump......run with forks...........

:laugh:

flo
08-15-2011, 06:28 PM
......run with forks...........

:laugh:

Or scissors!! :happydancing:

Twinsmama
08-15-2011, 08:02 PM
Dave I'm sorry to ask a dork insurance ? but i can't help it. :laugh: so they have insurance on there building so what does it pay for? i mean here building insurance (any structure) insurance that has a mortgage has the mortgage listed and any damages to structure are paid by check with the mortgage holders name and the insureds name. I wonder if the story you heard was incorrect. I think the reporters wanted to have a juicy story. Why would a bank loan a money on a building with no written proof they would get paid back if the collateral was destroyed. that does not make good business sense.

If a building in the US was destroyed by fire the mortgage company would either expect to be paid back in full or the building to be rebuilt the same way it was when they loaned money on it. That is why they require that insurance. They don't want to hold a loan on a piece of property that is not worth anything.

I could go on and more in depth with insurance talk but i will leave it at I think the story that you heard is not correct

Tyburn
08-15-2011, 08:22 PM
Dave I'm sorry to ask a dork insurance ? but i can't help it. :laugh: so they have insurance on there building so what does it pay for? i mean here building insurance (any structure) insurance that has a mortgage has the mortgage listed and any damages to structure are paid by check with the mortgage holders name and the insureds name. I wonder if the story you heard was incorrect. I think the reporters wanted to have a juicy story. Why would a bank loan a money on a building with no written proof they would get paid back if the collateral was destroyed. that does not make good business sense.

If a building in the US was destroyed by fire the mortgage company would either expect to be paid back in full or the building to be rebuilt the same way it was when they loaned money on it. That is why they require that insurance. They don't want to hold a loan on a piece of property that is not worth anything.

I could go on and more in depth with insurance talk but i will leave it at I think the story that you heard is not correct

In England There are three things. Mortgage, This is the money you have borrowed as a loan from the bank to buy the property. You buy the porperty from an Estate Agents. You have to pay the estate agents in full, so what you do is you go to a bank, and they tell you based on your income, what they will lend you in order for you to add to your own money to buy the house. You then pay them back. It usually requires paying a certain amount per month, and mostly it takes TWENTY FIVE YEARS to pay back in full because they add interest. If you sell your house before you pay them, you pay them off in full from the sale of your house, and go to another bank and begin again, or, sometimes the same bank can transfer your mortgage from one property to the other. THIS is the money I am talking about.

Building insurance is taken out to cover the cost of rebuilding in the case of Structural damage...but if you rent, or part buy, thats the responsibility of the land lord.

Contents insurance is an option, which allows you to list your valuables, pay a rate, and then if they get distroyed, so long as you pay an aggreed sum, you get the financial value of your valuables back.

Does that help you make sense of it?

Neezar
08-15-2011, 08:31 PM
Dave, the banks in America require you to purchase an insurance on your mortage loan that will pay them (the bank) their loaned money back in case of something like this. If you don't purchase it then they (the bank) will purchase it for you and tack the insurance premium on to your monthly loan payment.

Does that help you understand why we don't understand why your banks don't do the same thing?

Tyburn
08-15-2011, 09:02 PM
Dave, the banks in America require you to purchase an insurance on your mortage loan that will pay them (the bank) their loaned money back in case of something like this. If you don't purchase it then they (the bank) will purchase it for you and tack the insurance premium on to your monthly loan payment.

Does that help you understand why we don't understand why your banks don't do the same thing?

Mortgage insurance :blink:

No...see I think the Written Contract in England is so strong that if you fail to keep up your payments...the banks simply take your home away from you as payment...its called repossession :laugh:

Hows thats for "insurance" :wink:

Neezar
08-16-2011, 01:19 AM
Mortgage insurance :blink:

No...see I think the Written Contract in England is so strong that if you fail to keep up your payments...the banks simply take your home away from you as payment...its called repossession :laugh:

Hows thats for "insurance" :wink:

The same is true here. If you fail to pay the loan payments then the bank forecloses on your home. However, that wouldn't help the bank much if the house has burned to the ground now would it. It seems to be all the same with the exception of mortgage insurance to protect your loan. How is that for covering all of your bases? :wink:

atomdanger
08-16-2011, 02:54 AM
Im confused, they don't have insurance in England?

I understand being a renter and not having renters insurance.
But a home owner? That's just stupidity.

Twinsmama
08-16-2011, 12:21 PM
In England There are three things. Mortgage, This is the money you have borrowed as a loan from the bank to buy the property. You buy the porperty from an Estate Agents. You have to pay the estate agents in full, so what you do is you go to a bank, and they tell you based on your income, what they will lend you in order for you to add to your own money to buy the house. You then pay them back. It usually requires paying a certain amount per month, and mostly it takes TWENTY FIVE YEARS to pay back in full because they add interest. If you sell your house before you pay them, you pay them off in full from the sale of your house, and go to another bank and begin again, or, sometimes the same bank can transfer your mortgage from one property to the other. THIS is the money I am talking about.

Building insurance is taken out to cover the cost of rebuilding in the case of Structural damage...but if you rent, or part buy, thats the responsibility of the land lord.

Contents insurance is an option, which allows you to list your valuables, pay a rate, and then if they get distroyed, so long as you pay an aggreed sum, you get the financial value of your valuables back.

Does that help you make sense of it?

:laugh:No still makes no sense. I still think there is some information not correct.