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atomdanger
07-27-2011, 09:27 PM
Tobacco raises about 25 billion in taxes a year for the government.
Tobacco (and its health issues) cost us 200 billion dollars a year.
Just think about those numbers.

Now what do you think legalizing pot would do?
Pot has 50 - 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons
Pot is equally, if not more addicting than Tobacco


Are you for or against legalizing?

Miss Foxy
07-27-2011, 09:52 PM
The mommy wants to say AGAINST.. However if we are already in an over-medicated synthetic pill popping society I say FOR IT... Just depends..

Buzzard
07-27-2011, 09:54 PM
First off, can you please provide your sources for the tobacco tax income and the cost of related health care.

Marijuana doesn't have to be smoked to be effective. I don't agree with you on the addictive properties. Can you provide your sources for that too please.

I'm for legalizing it for quite a few different reasons.

atomdanger
07-27-2011, 10:08 PM
First off, can you please provide your sources for the tobacco tax income and the cost of related health care.

Marijuana doesn't have to be smoked to be effective.
I don't agree with you on the addictive properties.
Can you provide your sources for that too please.

I'm for legalizing it for quite a few different reasons.

University of Cambridge
Columbia University
Both have pretty definitive studies on Pot being addictive.
The active ingredient in marijuana, THC, binds to cannabinoid receptors in the brain (CB1 and CB2). (As do other addicting drugs)

nocigtax.com
and Usatoday
for the tax numbers.

I work at a hospital, and the figure was at work,
I will bring home the info and post its sources asap.

I am not against the use of medical pot (easier to type than full name lol)
I mean LEGAL, completely free and legal.

Buzzard
07-27-2011, 11:09 PM
University of Cambridge
Columbia University
Both have pretty definitive studies on Pot being addictive.
The active ingredient in marijuana, THC, binds to cannabinoid receptors in the brain (CB1 and CB2). (As do other addicting drugs)

nocigtax.com
and Usatoday
for the tax numbers.

I work at a hospital, and the figure was at work,
I will bring home the info and post its sources asap.

I am not against the use of medical pot (easier to type than full name lol)
I mean LEGAL, completely free and legal.

Cool, thanks for the links. I'll check them out in the next few.

As far as the addictive properties; some studies that I have read do show that there are some, though not as much as tobacco. While there are carcinogens, smoking isn't the only way marijuana can be used. It can be consumed in food products and used in a vaporizer, both of which greatly diminish or eliminate the carcinogens if I recall correctly. Not to mention the additives that are put in cigarettes, that's another story.

I'm still for legalizing it, taxing it and allowing adults to decide for themselves. These prisons for profit getting filled up for minor drug possessions are completely wrong imo. (Just an example, not sure if these prisons are filled with minor drug offenders. It sounds good though :wink:.) It seems one can do harm either physically or financially to someone else, such as embezzlers, tax cheats, etc. getting a mere slap on the wrist as punishment while a kid gets caught with a bag of smoke and spends time in jail for it. The war on drugs is a complete waste of money in my opinion. It's a modern day prohibition, and we all know what happened in the prior one involving alcohol.

I used to work in the respiratory therapy department in a major hospital in CA and saw first hand the effects of tobacco on people, and it is still legal. Not using that as an argument, just a fact. I saw people smoke through their stoma when in the hospital, back when smoking was still legal in hospitals. They just had to have their nicotine. I have an acquaintance who has had at least 5 collapsed lungs, beginning emphysema and COPD, and a host of other lung issues due to cigarettes, but can't and won't quit them. He was able to quit smoking pot with ease.

I wouldn't doubt that drug cartels are major opponents and financial contributors to the WoD, big business too.

I get random drug tests at my work, so I don't use. If it was legal, I may or may not. I can legally drink but it's not a major factor in my life, I can take it or leave it. I would imagine that that is how I would handle pot if I were allowed to smoke it. Some can handle alcohol, some can't. I think that also would go for pot too.

NateR
07-28-2011, 12:52 AM
Never smoked it, never had any interest in smoking it - legal or illegal. However, I do believe that making it legal would cause more people to try it out and potentially get addicted to it. I think the fact that it is illegal deters a lot more people from trying it than we might think.

County Mike
07-28-2011, 11:45 AM
That's all we need, more stupid people.

Pot kills brain cells. If you don't believe me, just try to have a conversation with a long time pothead.

Buzzard
07-28-2011, 12:24 PM
That's all we need, more stupid people.

Pot kills brain cells. If you don't believe me, just try to have a conversation with a long time pothead.

I know many long term pot users, all above average intelligence and quite successful in their careers. Owners of their own business, college graduates, etc. The studies that I have read don't seem to support your claim, nor does my own experience with pot users. Sure if you look only at slacker kids who smoke dope you could get that impression. Back when I worked at the hospital, so many of the resident doctors and other staff hospital members were known to toke up quite frequently. Hard to pass your medical boards if you don't have the intelligence.

Heck, using your standard, I would claim that some of the posters on this forum were potheads because of their lack of basic writing skills. One that comes to mind I doubt uses.

We could also use your definition and say the same about alcohol drinkers, tobacco users etc.

Dethbob
07-28-2011, 01:13 PM
I wouldn't doubt that drug cartels are major opponents and financial contributors to the WoD, big business too.

Can you think of one single other business in the world that lobbies to have its products outlawed?

rearnakedchoke
07-28-2011, 01:22 PM
if they plan on legalizing it, let me know, i will buy stock in doritos ..

there are many good arguments for or against it .. the good things are that the cartels would stop because there would be no real reason to traffic it, but they would probably move to something else like coke, heroine or people .. people say it is a gateway drug, but i think tobacco and alcohol are also gateway drugs ...

here in canada it is decriminalized, meaning if you get caught with a spliff, you get a ticket or something, but if you have a bunch of it, you do get charged for intent to traffic .. something like that .. not saying that is the answer, but it might be a possibility .. me, i am for a keeping it illegal ..

County Mike
07-28-2011, 02:08 PM
I know many long term pot users, all above average intelligence and quite successful in their careers. Owners of their own business, college graduates, etc. The studies that I have read don't seem to support your claim, nor does my own experience with pot users. Sure if you look only at slacker kids who smoke dope you could get that impression. Back when I worked at the hospital, so many of the resident doctors and other staff hospital members were known to toke up quite frequently. Hard to pass your medical boards if you don't have the intelligence.

Heck, using your standard, I would claim that some of the posters on this forum were potheads because of their lack of basic writing skills. One that comes to mind I doubt uses.

We could also use your definition and say the same about alcohol drinkers, tobacco users etc.

I've known some reasonably intelligent people who became daily pot smokers and now they're complete idiots. I'm not talking about the people who occasionally have a smoke. I'm talking about the daily smoking pot heads. I'm sure some people can smoke it once in a while and show little effect but I've definitely seen first-hand where some people just went way down hill with no other obvious excuse.

If it becomes legal, the daily smokers will likely increase (same as cigarette smokers) and we'll have more lazy idiots laying around talking about the existence of dog.

ufcfan2
07-28-2011, 02:49 PM
Never smoked it, never had any interest in smoking it - legal or illegal. However, I do believe that making it legal would cause more people to try it out and potentially get addicted to it. I think the fact that it is illegal deters a lot more people from trying it than we might think.
I agree, I've never tried it and never really had the urge. Some of that may of been it being illegal and the other was not hanging around friends who did it. I though have thought about trying it, but heck I wouldnt know where to even get it I don't exactly know any corner selling pot dealers:Whistle: I don't drink neither, maybe I should start my friends always keep telling me thats the reason I'm so uptight and stressed all the time:wacko:

if they plan on legalizing it, let me know, i will buy stock in doritos ..

there are many good arguments for or against it .. the good things are that the cartels would stop because there would be no real reason to traffic it, but they would probably move to something else like coke, heroine or people .. people say it is a gateway drug, but i think tobacco and alcohol are also gateway drugs ...

here in canada it is decriminalized, meaning if you get caught with a spliff, you get a ticket or something, but if you have a bunch of it, you do get charged for intent to traffic .. something like that .. not saying that is the answer, but it might be a possibility .. me, i am for a keeping it illegal ..
This. Far as law here in states I'm not sure, but I think its similar in some areas it just depends on the amount they find you with.

BamaGrits84
07-28-2011, 03:29 PM
That's all we need, more stupid people.

Pot kills brain cells. If you don't believe me, just try to have a conversation with a long time pothead.

I'm going to disagree with this. I know someone who made a 34 on their ACTs, graduated college with honors, and makes 6 figures while smoking daily. And sadly he has a better memory than I do. If his brain has been impacted any it hasn't hurt him that much.

Dethbob
07-28-2011, 03:43 PM
I'm going to disagree with this. I know someone who made a 34 on their ACTs, graduated college with honors, and makes 6 figures while smoking daily. And sadly he has a better memory than I do. If his brain has been impacted any it hasn't hurt him that much.

Most, if not all, of the athletes at my high school smoked cigarettes, and from what I hear, it is currently the same at the local schools also. I think people who are naturally gifted sometimes do stupid stuff because on some level they want to prove to themselves that they can get away with it.

I also think dope is more attractive to smart people because it slows down the thought process so that the cerebral machinations become perceptible, which is novel and therefore fun, but certainly not a good idea.

BamaGrits84
07-28-2011, 03:44 PM
Pot is not physically addictive. It is psychologically addictive. People think they need it to relax just like people who use tobacco. In the 60s smoking was considered a peaceful thing, however most research shows it actually is not. People who smoke long term and frequently are usually asses. That's a medical fact. Since they think smoking makes life better when they don't they become more irritable. also, when the come down from their high they are irritable.

This is what gets me about people who smoke - they refuse to deal with life as it really is. That I have a problem with. Today at work I may have a boss get mad at me, I may go pick up to kids who start fighting within 3 seconds of getting in my van, I may have more things to get done this evening before my body can take before it crashes. But that's life. You don't get a pass on doing drugs just because it makes life seem easier to you. Get over it or go get some prozac.

VCURamFan
07-28-2011, 04:36 PM
Pot is not physically addictive. It is psychologically addictive. People think they need it to relax just like people who use tobacco. In the 60s smoking was considered a peaceful thing, however most research shows it actually is not. People who smoke long term and frequently are usually asses. That's a medical fact. Since they think smoking makes life better when they don't they become more irritable. also, when the come down from their high they are irritable.

This is what gets me about people who smoke - they refuse to deal with life as it really is. That I have a problem with. Today at work I may have a boss get mad at me, I may go pick up to kids who start fighting within 3 seconds of getting in my van, I may have more things to get done this evening before my body can take before it crashes. But that's life. You don't get a pass on doing drugs just because it makes life seem easier to you. Get over it or go get some prozac.

Hahahahaha, did you do that on purpose? :laugh:

BamaGrits84
07-28-2011, 05:06 PM
Hahahahaha, did you do that on purpose? :laugh:

Do what? :huh:

County Mike
07-28-2011, 05:29 PM
Do what? :huh:

You don't get a pass on doing drugs so deal with it or do drugs.

Twinsmama
07-28-2011, 05:34 PM
Cool, thanks for the links. I'll check them out in the next few.

As far as the addictive properties; some studies that I have read do show that there are some, though not as much as tobacco. While there are carcinogens, smoking isn't the only way marijuana can be used. It can be consumed in food products and used in a vaporizer, both of which greatly diminish or eliminate the carcinogens if I recall correctly. Not to mention the additives that are put in cigarettes, that's another story.

I'm still for legalizing it, taxing it and allowing adults to decide for themselves. These prisons for profit getting filled up for minor drug possessions are completely wrong imo. (Just an example, not sure if these prisons are filled with minor drug offenders. It sounds good though :wink:.) It seems one can do harm either physically or financially to someone else, such as embezzlers, tax cheats, etc. getting a mere slap on the wrist as punishment while a kid gets caught with a bag of smoke and spends time in jail for it. The war on drugs is a complete waste of money in my opinion. It's a modern day prohibition, and we all know what happened in the prior one involving alcohol.

I used to work in the respiratory therapy department in a major hospital in CA and saw first hand the effects of tobacco on people, and it is still legal. Not using that as an argument, just a fact. I saw people smoke through their stoma when in the hospital, back when smoking was still legal in hospitals. They just had to have their nicotine. I have an acquaintance who has had at least 5 collapsed lungs, beginning emphysema and COPD, and a host of other lung issues due to cigarettes, but can't and won't quit them. He was able to quit smoking pot with ease.

I wouldn't doubt that drug cartels are major opponents and financial contributors to the WoD, big business too.

I get random drug tests at my work, so I don't use. If it was legal, I may or may not. I can legally drink but it's not a major factor in my life, I can take it or leave it. I would imagine that that is how I would handle pot if I were allowed to smoke it. Some can handle alcohol, some can't. I think that also would go for pot too.

okay i was agreeing with you until you said that. then i lol'd

I'm going to disagree with this. I know someone who made a 34 on their ACTs, graduated college with honors, and makes 6 figures while smoking daily. And sadly he has a better memory than I do. If his brain has been impacted any it hasn't hurt him that much.

:laugh:think of what they could have done:laugh:

Hahahahaha, did you do that on purpose? :laugh:

:laugh::laugh:

Do what? :huh:
:laugh::laugh:

If someone is high from smoking pot are they impaired like someone that is drunk? Is there any way to tell how high they are like a drunk can blow into a breathilizer? don't laugh i don't get out much:laugh: i'm scared that more people may drive around high and put my life or my children life in danger. I realize it happens all the time now but I wonder how many people would start doing it.

Also I'm wondering what some of my husbands friends would do for work if they could buy it at the store?:laugh:

BamaGrits84
07-28-2011, 05:47 PM
Well I meant illegal drugs. :rolleyes:

I need some drugs that help you think straight...or maybe just sleep. Does pot help you sleep...:tongue0011:

BamaGrits84
07-28-2011, 05:50 PM
Also I'm wondering what some of my husbands friends would do for work if they could buy it at the store?:laugh:

:rotfl:

My husband says I shouldn't judge others when I make comments about what appear to be drug dealers. Gee honey you're right. I should just shut my mouth about that hummer on 24 spinners leaving the projects that I work 20% of the week to help support. That's another thread though.

Miss Foxy
07-28-2011, 05:55 PM
:rotfl:

My husband says I shouldn't judge others when I make comments about what appear to be drug dealers. Gee honey you're right. I should just shut my mouth about that hummer on 24 spinners leaving the projects that I work 20% of the week to help support. That's another thread though.

Lmao you ladies are hilarious!! I loves it..

Miss Foxy
07-28-2011, 05:56 PM
Well I meant illegal drugs. :rolleyes:

I need some drugs that help you think straight...or maybe just sleep. Does pot help you sleep...:tongue0011:

The chemical breakdown is disgusting and what it does to the kidney/liver function is horrible.. We take one pill to take another to have our organs keep up with the first pill.. It's a vicious cycle...:scared0011:

BamaGrits84
07-28-2011, 06:44 PM
The chemical breakdown is disgusting and what it does to the kidney/liver function is horrible.. We take one pill to take another to have our organs keep up with the first pill.. It's a vicious cycle...:scared0011:

You mean prozac does that? I just tossed that word in because I saw a sign calling it a happy pill once. I don't really know anything about it.

Buzzard
07-28-2011, 06:57 PM
Can you think of one single other business in the world that lobbies to have its products outlawed?

Drug cartels are an illegal business. They supply illegally what can't be bought legally. If say, pot became legal, they would lose their source of income from smuggling illegal pot. Having it legal would mean that there would be so much competition and not as much of a profit for them. This is just my opinion.

Miss Foxy
07-28-2011, 06:59 PM
You mean prozac does that? I just tossed that word in because I saw a sign calling it a happy pill once. I don't really know anything about it.

Prozac has horrible side effects, however some people need it.. I think we all get what your saying Ben was being goofy about it.. :)

Buzzard
07-28-2011, 07:30 PM
okay i was agreeing with you until you said that. then i lol'd

The reason I believe it is a waste of money is due to the fact that more money is spent on this war when it could be used better. How about using the money that is spent policing, arresting, trying, housing these low level pot users when it could be put to better use. I'm not talking about the major dealers, the low level users. If smuggling dope is such a lucrative business, take the untaxed money from the cartels and dealers and have it taxed and regulated, bringing in legal money. Of course the DEA and law enforcement involved in the war on drugs won't like it because it justifies their jobs, along with the "for profit" private prisons.


If someone is high from smoking pot are they impaired like someone that is drunk? Is there any way to tell how high they are like a drunk can blow into a breathilizer? don't laugh i don't get out much:laugh: i'm scared that more people may drive around high and put my life or my children life in danger. I realize it happens all the time now but I wonder how many people would start doing it.

If heroin was legalized tomorrow, would you try it? While I have heard that heroin is the mack daddy of drugs and have been on legal medication with pleasant effects similar to heroin, I would never try it due to the fact that it is so highly addictive.

I believe that there are different types of people and each would react to legal pot according to their already ingrained beliefs. Some would never try it period. Some would try it legal or illegal, and have and do smoke regardless of legality. Some might be on the fence due to legality, and would perhaps try it since the stigma of legality was gone, and would decide to continue on based on their experience with it. I'm sure I could make up some more categories of folks, but these are the first ones to come to mind.

I think it is similar to whether people will drink alcohol or not. I know some who love to drink, some who don't. I can take it or leave it. Getting drunk feels great at first, hangovers not so good. Moderation is the key for me if and when I choose to drink. I've had some raging hangovers and never want them again. Haven't had one in many many years.

There is a new device (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/26/fingerprint-analysis-aims-to-revolutionize-drug-testing/) that is out now that can supposedly tell if one is currently under the effects of pot.

I've known a lot of pot users in my life and they have driven UTI without ever being pulled over or ticketed for it. Maybe they were just lucky, but again, I've read studies that claim driving UTI of pot has little to no detrimental effects. I just googled "driving while high on pot effects" and came across quite a few studies. After cursory readings of the first 6 or so hits(not on the bong :laugh:) from google, regular users showed little to no decreased driving skills. I'm sure many folks would disagree, but I am only stating what I just found.

atomdanger
07-28-2011, 08:30 PM
That's all we need, more stupid people.

Pot kills brain cells. If you don't believe me, just try to have a conversation with a long time pothead.

haha
this is maybe the most basic, and the most to the point argument I've heard.
(watch a nick diaz interview)

BamaGrits84
07-28-2011, 08:51 PM
haha
this is maybe the most basic, and the most to the point argument I've heard.
(watch a nick diaz interview)

At first I was going to "laugh" at this then I realized what will likely be even more funny is MissFoxy's response. :Whistle:

Miss Foxy
07-28-2011, 09:09 PM
At first I was going to "laugh" at this then I realized what will likely be even more funny is MissFoxy's response. :Whistle:

LOL..He's a Diaz fan!! :)

BamaGrits84
07-28-2011, 09:12 PM
LOL..He's a Diaz fan!! :)

:blink: Funny. That life long pot smoker I mentioned earlier is too. :laugh:

Miss Foxy
07-28-2011, 09:13 PM
:blink: Funny. That life long pot smoker I mentioned earlier is too. :laugh:

Me too!! (Diaz fan).. However I don't smoke. I don't like tobacco, shisha, or weed..Gross..

atomdanger
07-28-2011, 11:27 PM
At first I was going to "laugh" at this then I realized what will likely be even more funny is MissFoxy's response. :Whistle:

I'm a huge diaz fan.

But the guy smokes, a LOT.