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Chris F
06-27-2011, 08:39 PM
http://southronpartisan.blogspot.com/2011/06/gay-marriage-not-in-my-state.html

This is my response to New York's recent acceptance of Gay Marriage as law.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
06-27-2011, 09:04 PM
I don't think they even gave the citizens of New York to vote on it! I think the state Senate just passed it without letting the citizens vote on it!

Buzzard
06-27-2011, 09:35 PM
Good for New York.

I couldn't bring myself to read all of your response because the hatred dripping off of it soiled my shoes.

Why don't you concentrate on vilifying all the good religious folk who practice sodomy? How about cleaning out your own closet and staying out of the lives of other people who just wish the same freedoms as everyone else, one being to marry the person whom they love? Why not work on yourself? Could it be because you would rather spend your energy on hate?

Mark
06-27-2011, 10:09 PM
I read it all and agree with what he has to say.
Buzzard you are a fool. Do you believe anything in the Bible?
With things like this going on how close are we to the end?
Buzzard what are you going to do when all the christians on earth go to heaven? Whatever you do dont take the mark of the beast!

NateR
06-28-2011, 12:10 AM
Good for New York.

I couldn't bring myself to read all of your response because the hatred dripping off of it soiled my shoes.

Why don't you concentrate on vilifying all the good religious folk who practice sodomy? How about cleaning out your own closet and staying out of the lives of other people who just wish the same freedoms as everyone else, one being to marry the person whom they love? Why not work on yourself? Could it be because you would rather spend your energy on hate?

To sum up the facts:
1. Marriage is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution, thus denying people the "right" to marry is not denying them any of their constitutional rights.
2. The government should not be involved in marriage at all, it should remain a purely religious institution.
3. The federal and state governments have no right to act outside of the will of the people. This country was founded upon the concept of government "of the people, by the people and for the people."
4. Nobody is born gay, there is no reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that homosexuality is a genetic trait passed on from generation to generation.

bradwright
06-28-2011, 02:08 AM
To sum up the facts:
1. Marriage is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution, thus denying people the "right" to marry is not denying them any of their constitutional rights.
2. The government should not be involved in marriage at all, it should remain a purely religious institution.
3. The federal and state governments have no right to act outside of the will of the people. This country was founded upon the concept of government "of the people, by the people and for the people."
4. Nobody is born gay, there is no reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that homosexuality is a genetic trait passed on from generation to generation.


and you know this how Nate ?

do you really think that gay people like being bashed all the time and that's why they want to be gay ?

NateR
06-28-2011, 02:52 AM
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and you know this how Nate ?

do you really think that gay people like being bashed all the time and that's why they want to be gay ?

There has been no reliable scientific evidence to support the theory that homosexuality is a genetic trait. I took psychology in college and there was no way to prove it back then, in 2003, and there is still no way to prove it now.

Scientists have been trying to find a biological explanation for homosexuality for decades now, so if a true genetic link had been discovered, then you can rest assured that it would make headline news across the country. That discovery alone would make it nearly impossible to deny gays the right to marry and, with Hollywood and the media so unabashedly supportive of the Gay Rights movement, it would become their rallying cry.

Homosexuality itself is likely nothing more than a mental illness. It was listed as such in medical books until 1973 and was only removed for purely political reasons. So they don't choose to be attracted to the same sex any more than a schizophrenic chooses to be schizophrenic. However, pursuing the homosexual lifestyle is most definitely a choice.

Now, I can already hear you say, "if the attraction is not a choice, then why deny them the right to pursue that attraction?" Well, that's working under the assumption that happiness and true purpose in life can only be found by following our physical desires and that our identity is defined by the act of sexual intercourse. The Bible makes it very clear that that is not the case.

Mark
06-28-2011, 03:17 AM
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do you really think that gay people like being bashed all the time and that's why they want to be gay ?

I dont think that we are bashing. Is stating our opinion bashing?

flo
06-28-2011, 03:18 AM
To sum up the facts:
1. Marriage is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution, thus denying people the "right" to marry is not denying them any of their constitutional rights.
2. The government should not be involved in marriage at all, it should remain a purely religious institution.
3. The federal and state governments have no right to act outside of the will of the people. This country was founded upon the concept of government "of the people, by the people and for the people."
4. Nobody is born gay, there is no reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that homosexuality is a genetic trait passed on from generation to generation.

I agree with all your points but the last one, Nate. As Brad said, why would a person choose to be shunned or worse? I don't believe it's a choice.

flo
06-28-2011, 03:19 AM
I dont think that we are bashing. Is stating our opinion bashing?

I'm pretty sure he meant in general, not on the forum.

bradwright
06-28-2011, 04:31 AM
I dont think that we are bashing. Is stating our opinion bashing?

i never meant that people from this forum are bashing gays...

although i do think some here judge others a bit harshly sometimes.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
06-28-2011, 05:36 AM
I agree with all your points but the last one, Nate. As Brad said, why would a person choose to be shunned or worse? I don't believe it's a choice.

It is a choice the same way Alcoholism is a choice! If it was something that could not be helped the Bible would not speak agianst it so strongly!

Chris F
06-28-2011, 07:59 AM
As Nate Said there is no evidence it is anything more than a choice. There is nothing in the human genome to make a person gay or not. And we have mapped the entire human genome. Up until the late 80's homosexuality was a mental disorder. Then very good and well funded lobbying got it changed.

Thank you everyone who read it even if you do not agree. Buzzard in the realm of logic you really need to cite some proof sir. By all means if my comments soiled you than you live in a fantasy land of revisionist history. The fact is marriage was religious. DYK marriage licensed were kept by the Mormons for many many years before the gov got involved? If oyu ever try to do geneology you will discover this fact.

Kentuckyredbone- I think you are right they did not even give them the right to vote on it however if the people really did not want it than next election you will see a lot of new Senators and state house members.

bradwright
06-28-2011, 12:09 PM
It is a choice the same way Alcoholism is a choice! If it was something that could not be helped the Bible would not speak agianst it so strongly!

i have a couple of friends that are gay and they say its a choice for them the same way its a choice for you or me to breathe...

but hey...what do they know.

Dethbob
06-28-2011, 01:56 PM
i have a couple of friends that are gay and they say its a choice for them the same way its a choice for you or me to breathe...

but hey...what do they know.

Ask heroin users about heroin and you will get a similar response. About half my family on both sides is hollowed out by drugs and alcohol and not one of them ‘chose’ it, but a few have had the strength to choose not to.

As for the marriage ‘right’, can you name one person in your lifetime who was arrested for getting gay-married? Barring polygamy and incest, you can marry anyone or anything you like. What these activists are insisting on is government approval of their relationship. It seems like less civil rights and more self-centered drama queen tantrum.

NateR
06-28-2011, 02:19 PM
i have a couple of friends that are gay and they say its a choice for them the same way its a choice for you or me to breathe...

but hey...what do they know.

Of course they are going to say that. People with mental disorders rarely believe that they are actually sick.

Primadawn
06-28-2011, 03:38 PM
There has been no reliable scientific evidence to support the theory that homosexuality is a genetic trait. I took psychology in college and there was no way to prove it back then, in 2003, and there is still no way to prove it now.

Scientists have been trying to find a biological explanation for homosexuality for decades now, so if a true genetic link had been discovered, then you can rest assured that it would make headline news across the country. That discovery alone would make it nearly impossible to deny gays the right to marry and, with Hollywood and the media so unabashedly supportive of the Gay Rights movement, it would become their rallying cry.

Homosexuality itself is likely nothing more than a mental illness. It was listed as such in medical books until 1973 and was only removed for purely political reasons. So they don't choose to be attracted to the same sex any more than a schizophrenic chooses to be schizophrenic. However, pursuing the homosexual lifestyle is most definitely a choice.

Now, I can already hear you say, "if the attraction is not a choice, then why deny them the right to pursue that attraction?" Well, that's working under the assumption that happiness and true purpose in life can only be found by following our physical desires and that our identity is defined by the act of sexual intercourse. The Bible makes it very clear that that is not the case.

Good point--also, using that logic, who's next? Pedophiles? After all, they can't help that they're attracted to children, right?

NateR
06-28-2011, 04:07 PM
Good point--also, using that logic, who's next? Pedophiles? After all, they can't help that they're attracted to children, right?

And what about a married man who just can't keep his hands off of other women? Does that mean he was born to be a polygamist? If so, then how can we deny him his "right" to marry multiple women?

rearnakedchoke
06-28-2011, 04:28 PM
And what about a married man who just can't keep his hands off of other women? Does that mean he was born to be a polygamist? If so, then how can we deny him his "right" to marry multiple women?

what about "religions" that say it is ok to have more than one wife?

Chris F
06-28-2011, 07:04 PM
what about "religions" that say it is ok to have more than one wife?

They simply use what is called serial monogamy rather than cry about it to a gov that can care less. Many Mormons still practice their polygamy just minus the legal documentation. They believe they are married in the eyes of their god and do not care if it is recognized by the civil government.

@brad- feelings are not evidence. If they were you could justify homicide and other crimes. If it was proven by science then there would be no discussion. Also as someone else said this is more of a tantrum than a civil rights issue. As I said in my blog they can get all the same rights but taxation with some simple paperwork. SO there is no civil right to claim lost. They need it to be about them being born that way so they can justify claiming it is a civil rights issue. There is no dispute blacks are born that way. If they were smarter they would make it more about religion because religion is a choice that is federally protected. But since they are more worried about civil rights revisited they will never see the tree from the forest.

bradwright
06-29-2011, 01:11 AM
Good point--also, using that logic, who's next? Pedophiles? After all, they can't help that they're attracted to children, right?

do you really think what 2 gay consenting adults do has anything at all in common with adults that like to have sex with children ?

NateR
06-29-2011, 03:38 AM
do you really think what 2 gay consenting adults do has anything at all in common with adults that like to have sex with children ?

Immorality is immorality. It doesn't matter if it is a man with another man, a married man with a woman not his wife, a man with a child, or two horny teenagers in the back seat of a car, it's all the same in the eyes of GOD.

Primadawn
06-29-2011, 04:25 PM
do you really think what 2 gay consenting adults do has anything at all in common with adults that like to have sex with children ?

My point was that it's a ridiculous argument for gays to say that what they do is ok because they were "born that way" and can't help who they're sexually attracted to. Neither can pedophiles, but that doesn't make it right.

Bonnie
06-29-2011, 07:46 PM
My point was that it's a ridiculous argument for gays to say that what they do is ok because they were "born that way" and can't help who they're sexually attracted to. Neither can pedophiles, but that doesn't make it right.

Exactly. And it doesn't make it any more right or okay because they are adults and consenting.

rearnakedchoke
06-29-2011, 09:18 PM
Exactly. And it doesn't make it any more right or okay because they are adults and consenting.

well, since people should not be held accountable to what a certain groups religion says about it, it should be okay since it is between consenting adults ... you can think it is immoral because you have been taught that ... these people are going on their feelings and not hurting anyway in the process ... pedophiles may be born that way, but they are still hurting someone when they act on their feelings .. murderers too, obviously ... since no one is being hurt, should they have to live their lives differently because what your or my religion says is right?

NateR
06-29-2011, 09:41 PM
well, since people should not be held accountable to what a certain groups religion says about it, it should be okay since it is between consenting adults ... you can think it is immoral because you have been taught that ... these people are going on their feelings and not hurting anyway in the process ... pedophiles may be born that way, but they are still hurting someone when they act on their feelings .. murderers too, obviously ... since no one is being hurt, should they have to live their lives differently because what your or my religion says is right?

Well, GOD says it's not okay, so no one has the right to contradict that. Even if all the religions of the world and every human being accepted homosexuality as normal, it wouldn't make a difference. GOD would still consider it a sin, so it would still be wrong. Also these "consenting adults" are hurting someone - they are hurting themselves. Maybe not physically (although there is physical pain and tissue damage done during homosexual male relations), but mentally and spiritually.

Personally, I don't care what two "consenting adults" do in the privacy of their own homes. I just wish the homosexuals would keep their sexual activities limited to the privacy of their homes. Instead, they seek to corrupt the minds of children and rub their sexual orientation in everyone's face. They are the ones trying to force their views upon everyone else, Christians are just the last group of people with the courage to stand against it.

rearnakedchoke
06-29-2011, 09:48 PM
Well, GOD says it's not okay, so no one has the right to contradict that. Even if all the religions of the world and every human being accepted homosexuality as normal, it wouldn't make a difference. GOD would still consider it a sin, so it would still be wrong. Also these "consenting adults" are hurting someone - they are hurting themselves. Maybe not physically (although there is physical pain and tissue damage done during homosexual male relations), but mentally and spiritually.

Personally, I don't care what two "consenting adults" do in the privacy of their own homes. I just wish the homosexuals would keep their sexual activities limited to the privacy of their homes. Instead, they seek to corrupt the minds of children and rub their sexual orientation in everyone's face. They are the ones trying to force their views upon everyone else, Christians are just the last group of people with the courage to stand against it.

that i agree with

Rev
06-29-2011, 09:50 PM
Well, GOD says it's not okay, so no one has the right to contradict that. Even if all the religions of the world and every human being accepted homosexuality as normal, it wouldn't make a difference. GOD would still consider it a sin, so it would still be wrong. Also these "consenting adults" are hurting someone - they are hurting themselves. Maybe not physically (although there is physical pain and tissue damage done during homosexual male relations), but mentally and spiritually.

Personally, I don't care what two "consenting adults" do in the privacy of their own homes. I just wish the homosexuals would keep their sexual activities limited to the privacy of their homes. Instead, they seek to corrupt the minds of children and rub their sexual orientation in everyone's face. They are the ones trying to force their views upon everyone else, Christians are just the last group of people with the courage to stand against it.

Lets start straight couple gatherings and celebrate straightness. I bet that would get us arrested. I wouldnt do that because it would be antagonistic but you get my point.

I cant say anything more than what Nate has. Just wanted to chime in and let u know that you are doing a good job brother, and on this issue, I let you speak for me. Well thought out points and not any room for the other side to hold any weight. keep up the good work.

Tyburn
06-29-2011, 10:39 PM
To sum up the facts:
1. Marriage is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution, thus denying people the "right" to marry is not denying them any of their constitutional rights.
2. The government should not be involved in marriage at all, it should remain a purely religious institution.
3. The federal and state governments have no right to act outside of the will of the people. This country was founded upon the concept of government "of the people, by the people and for the people."
4. Nobody is born gay, there is no reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that homosexuality is a genetic trait passed on from generation to generation.

1) Somehow that suprises me...because I think that Marriage in the Legal term (the law bound contract and all it entails under law) is something that IS accepted as a Right in England. Hence...why Gays have been able to have civil ceremonies ever since it became legal to be gay (it used to be illegal, and they used to round them up, lock them up, and try and cure them with electric shocks to the brain... :blink:)

2) From the view of your founders, its not Necc because its generally assumed as all the Government will be Religious, they would understand its significance, and thereby, not need to interfere. I dont think your Founders took into consideration the profound effect of Secularism.

3) Your Founders Kinda stole that phrase actually, from the Romans. In its original form that phrase was summed up by the Motto in my Avatar...but its true, that if your states make changes like that, surely there should be a referendum first.

4) We dont know if people are born gay or not. We can probably be reasonably sure its not a wholly Genetic trait. There may well be dispositional genetics...but there is definately nurture involved also. Regardless...You cant have gay sex by accident can you?? Just coz you feel like doing something doesnt mean you are forced to do it. I wanted to bundle a senior manager into the compactor today...Had I done it...I dont think the courts would have let me off coz I told them I just felt like I really had too...ahahaha

Bonnie
06-29-2011, 10:43 PM
well, since people should not be held accountable to what a certain groups religion says about it, it should be okay since it is between consenting adults ... you can think it is immoral because you have been taught that ... these people are going on their feelings and not hurting anyway in the process ... pedophiles may be born that way, but they are still hurting someone when they act on their feelings .. murderers too, obviously ... since no one is being hurt, should they have to live their lives differently because what your or my religion says is right?

But that's where I disagree since I do believe in GOD and what He says is right and wrong, I do believe they are hurting others with their actions in trying to get/force society to agree with what they believe. I agree with Nate that they don't "just" want to be left alone to live their lives. If it was just a matter of them having to live with their choices and the consequences that would be one thing, but that's not what has happened or is happening. What about HIV/AIDS...has that not "hurt" our society...it wasn't some self-contained thing that stayed within the homosexual community, a consequence for some, for their choices; it became a consequence for others who had nothing to do with the gay lifestyle. What about public schools that are bringing in books teaching our kids that being gay is just a different lifestyle choice, but that it's perfectly normal, going against what other parents are trying to teach their own children about what GOD says is right and wrong. Not to mention our tax dollars paying for it! So yes, I do believe harm is being done.

If people don't want me pushing my beliefs on them, that's fine, but, likewise, don't turn around and be a hypocrite by trying to force others to agree to something that they think is wrong and then calling them names like homophobe when they don't.

Nate said it better/best.

Buzzard
06-30-2011, 05:31 AM
I read it all and agree with what he has to say.
Buzzard you are a fool. Do you believe anything in the Bible?
With things like this going on how close are we to the end?
Buzzard what are you going to do when all the christians on earth go to heaven? Whatever you do dont take the mark of the beast!

Buzzard you are a fool.

Am I allowed to state my honest opinion of you Mark, or will I get banned for it? I surly hope that you can take it if you can dish it.

You ask if I believe anything in the bible. In general, about as much as I believe the story of the 3 little pigs. Some historical aspects yes though. If you give me specific passages, I can address them individually. Do you believe everything that is in the bible happened?

With things like this going on how close are we to the end?

Please tell me you're not another one of the end of the world folks out there.

Buzzard what are you going to do when all the christians on earth go to heaven?

Celebrate! Unfortunately it's not going to happen so I'll still be stuck on this rock with you.

Whatever you do dont take the mark of the beast!

I've already got my 666 tattooed on my skull, had horn implants and split my tongue. I'm fully decked out in Satan art all over my body. :scared0015::rolleyes: To make it clear, I have no tats, horns or tongue split. There is no such thing in reality, so I couldn't take it even if I wanted to.

Have you even read the bible all the way through Mark? How many times? How long have you been a christian? What made you into a believer? Why weren't you before? Did you first read the bible and then convert, or did you do it without researching it.

I believe that the reason most people turn agnostic and atheist is because they have read the bible. Now I admit it's been quite a few years since I have read it completely and I find it interesting, but it is only a book of fiction to me. I was brainwashed and forced/indoctrinated into believing as a child. I had no choice then but I do now, and there is no way I can force myself into believing something as far fetched as the bible.

I'll address other responses if I am allowed to freely express my opinion, and I'll be able to do it without calling anyone a derogatory name.

Tyburn
06-30-2011, 12:14 PM
Am I allowed to state my honest opinion of you Mark, or will I get banned for it? I surly hope that you can take it if you can dish it.


If you decide to do that...can you please do it in someone elses section of the Forum :laugh: I could sooo do without the hassle of being the one who has to respond to whatever results from your Freedom of speech on this issue. :unsure-1: Mark dislikes me enough already :laugh:

Dethbob
06-30-2011, 02:13 PM
I was brainwashed and forced/indoctrinated into believing as a child. I had no choice then but I do now, and there is no way I can force myself into believing something as far fetched as the bible.

That is a straight cop-out. No one brainwashed you, you believed what you believed. As a matter of fact I think you still do, why else would you be so defensive about it? I don't believe in UFOs, but I don't log on to every thread on the interweb desperately trying to convince everyone that I don't.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
06-30-2011, 08:41 PM
That is a straight cop-out. No one brainwashed you, you believed what you believed. As a matter of fact I think you still do, why else would you be so defensive about it? I don't believe in UFOs, but I don't log on to every thread on the interweb desperately trying to convince everyone that I don't.

I wish I would've thought of that!

flo
06-30-2011, 08:58 PM
That is a straight cop-out. No one brainwashed you, you believed what you believed. As a matter of fact I think you still do, why else would you be so defensive about it? I don't believe in UFOs, but I don't log on to every thread on the interweb desperately trying to convince everyone that I don't.

+1

VCURamFan
06-30-2011, 09:05 PM
That is a straight cop-out. No one brainwashed you, you believed what you believed. As a matter of fact I think you still do, why else would you be so defensive about it? I don't believe in UFOs, but I don't log on to every thread on the interweb desperately trying to convince everyone that I don't.
Truth.

Buzzard
07-01-2011, 04:56 AM
That is a straight cop-out. No one brainwashed you, you believed what you believed. As a matter of fact I think you still do, why else would you be so defensive about it? I don't believe in UFOs, but I don't log on to every thread on the interweb desperately trying to convince everyone that I don't.

No, what is a cop out is clinging to a belief so far fetched and out there with not a shred of proof. If you have proof, lay it out there if you are able. I'm almost willing to bet that anything you would call proof could be easily refuted, if not by me, then through a little bit of research. Burning bushes, please.

I was indoctrinated at a very early age, forced to go to a religious school and had religion hammered into me. If you didn't believe and questioned it, you got rapped in the knuckles among other things. Others may call a spade a spade, I call a cult a cult.

Luckily I got out of it and was able to continue my education through public schools. I will give credit to the school though, it gave me a head start in the education department. It taught me to think for myself which in turn allowed me to objectively look at the subject and decide it was a scam.

You can think what you want, but you have no clue.

Gay marriage brings others up to the level playing field, not bringing them down as you would have it. Separate but equal is nothing of the sort.

+1

Aw, I have a stalker who can't make an argument on her own. How sweet. If you ever get the guts and brains to actually participate, I might consider allowing you into the conversation. If you are afraid to participate, leave it to the big boys and girls.

I see you like to bring me up in other threads where I haven't even participated too. I'd respond there but I've already wasted enough time on someone who can't think for herself.

If you've got it bring it or go home. I imagine you'll take the easy way out and go home. Have a nice trip and don't let the door hit you on the way out.


EDIT: Said with all the love I could muster.

Chris F
07-01-2011, 08:12 AM
No, what is a cop out is clinging to a belief so far fetched and out there with not a shred of proof. If you have proof, lay it out there if you are able. I'm almost willing to bet that anything you would call proof could be easily refuted, if not by me, then through a little bit of research. Burning bushes, please.

I was indoctrinated at a very early age, forced to go to a religious school and had religion hammered into me. If you didn't believe and questioned it, you got rapped in the knuckles among other things. Others may call a spade a spade, I call a cult a cult.

Luckily I got out of it and was able to continue my education through public schools. I will give credit to the school though, it gave me a head start in the education department. It taught me to think for myself which in turn allowed me to objectively look at the subject and decide it was a scam.

You can think what you want, but you have no clue.

Gay marriage brings others up to the level playing field, not bringing them down as you would have it. Separate but equal is nothing of the sort.



Aw, I have a stalker who can't make an argument on her own. How sweet. If you ever get the guts and brains to actually participate, I might consider allowing you into the conversation. If you are afraid to participate, leave it to the big boys and girls.

I see you like to bring me up in other threads where I haven't even participated too. I'd respond there but I've already wasted enough time on someone who can't think for herself.

If you've got it bring it or go home. I imagine you'll take the easy way out and go home. Have a nice trip and don't let the door hit you on the way out.


EDIT: Said with all the love I could muster.

Buzz if it all could be easily proven and understood than it would not be faith and God would be no different than my finite mind. What is far fetched is evolution which makes claims of truth with no proof and yet still continues to call it science. BTW science records a burning bush that appeared consumed and was not. A little research might do you well also. You are the one with the burden of proof since you made the positive claim that it is not true with certainty. Before something can be claimed false it must be done so with evidence. It is an illogical fallacy to clam falsehood just because something can or cannot be proven true or false. So nice try but if you plan to run your mouth do so with a least a small amount of logic or go troll the other sections.

Dethbob
07-01-2011, 01:40 PM
I'll address other responses if I am allowed to freely express my opinion, and I'll be able to do it without calling anyone a derogatory name.

Aw, I have a stalker who can't make an argument on her own. How sweet. If you ever get the guts and brains to actually participate, I might consider allowing you into the conversation. If you are afraid to participate, leave it to the big boys and girls.

Nice. Picking on Flo says a lot more about you than it does about her.

No, what is a cop out is clinging to a belief so far fetched and out there with not a shred of proof. If you have proof, lay it out there if you are able. I'm almost willing to bet that anything you would call proof could be easily refuted, if not by me, then through a little bit of research. Burning bushes, please.

You can think what you want, but you have no clue.

No clue, no proof, just Faith.

If I'm wrong about you and you actually do want to understand, you might start by exploring the idea of emotional intelligence.

Have a nice weekend.

Buzzard
07-01-2011, 08:19 PM
Nice. Picking on Flo says a lot more about you than it does about her.



No clue, no proof, just Faith.

If I'm wrong about you and you actually do want to understand, you might start by exploring the idea of emotional intelligence.

Have a nice weekend.

At least you are honest enough to say that there is no proof. Kudos to you.

As for flo, if she wants to bring me up in other threads in a derogatory way, and add her $.02 cents of nothing in this thread, then I will call her out as others call me out. I'm open for discussion and debate, she isn't capable from what I have seen.

If you wish to insult my intelligence by claiming I believe, then I have no choice to let you know how wrong you are.

Buzz if it all could be easily proven and understood than it would not be faith and God would be no different than my finite mind. What is far fetched is evolution which makes claims of truth with no proof and yet still continues to call it science. BTW science records a burning bush that appeared consumed and was not. A little research might do you well also. You are the one with the burden of proof since you made the positive claim that it is not true with certainty. Before something can be claimed false it must be done so with evidence. It is an illogical fallacy to clam falsehood just because something can or cannot be proven true or false. So nice try but if you plan to run your mouth do so with a least a small amount of logic or go troll the other sections.

Show me the scientific proof of the burning bush, I challenge you on that. Logic seems to be lost on you, as on most other religious folks when it comes to religion. You believe stuff without proof or evidence, I need more than that and so far there is little to none of it in regard to the outrageous claims made in the bible and quran.

Back on subject. Can you show me how the states that have already approved gay marriage have been destroyed by it?

Marriage is a civil contract which allows many rights to those whom are married. If you aren't allowed to marry the person you love, I believe rights are violated.

Please don't go off and then say that it would open the door up for man to marry animals or children as that is the most asinine argument out there. There are probably other asinine arguments, but these always rise to the top.

Is your marriage so weak that allowing gays to marry will destroy it?

Have a great weekend and a safe 4th Chris and Bob and all others. Don't blow off any fingers, you'll need them to reply.:laugh:

EDIT: There is a reason it is called the Theory of Evolution, but I believe that you already knew that. When science discovers a mistake, they change and research some more. When fallacies are shown in the good books, you try to change the world to fit your beliefs.

Bonnie
07-01-2011, 09:10 PM
I call a cult a cult.

Luckily I got out of it and was able to continue my education through public schools. I will give credit to the school though, it gave me a head start in the education department. It taught me to think for myself which in turn allowed me to objectively look at the subject and decide it was a scam.


You should think for yourself, but do you think your objectivety might be skewed and/or tainted by what happened to you as a child? Have you rejected GOD because you truly believe He doesn't exist? Or, did you reject Him because you were upset with the people you feel tried to brainwash/force-feed you a certain religion/cult--in other words, you were angry at them and you were going to "show them" by totally rejecting GOD altogether and not have anything to do with any religion? :unsure-1:

Hopefully I haven't bungled that too much and you get what I'm trying to ask.


Gay marriage brings others up to the level playing field, not bringing them down as you would have it. Separate but equal is nothing of the sort.

What do you mean?

Chris F
07-01-2011, 10:01 PM
At least you are honest enough to say that there is no proof. Kudos to you.

As for flo, if she wants to bring me up in other threads in a derogatory way, and add her $.02 cents of nothing in this thread, then I will call her out as others call me out. I'm open for discussion and debate, she isn't capable from what I have seen.

If you wish to insult my intelligence by claiming I believe, then I have no choice to let you know how wrong you are.



Show me the scientific proof of the burning bush, I challenge you on that. Logic seems to be lost on you, as on most other religious folks when it comes to religion. You believe stuff without proof or evidence, I need more than that and so far there is little to none of it in regard to the outrageous claims made in the bible and quran.

Back on subject. Can you show me how the states that have already approved gay marriage have been destroyed by it?

Marriage is a civil contract which allows many rights to those whom are married. If you aren't allowed to marry the person you love, I believe rights are violated.

Please don't go off and then say that it would open the door up for man to marry animals or children as that is the most asinine argument out there. There are probably other asinine arguments, but these always rise to the top.

Is your marriage so weak that allowing gays to marry will destroy it?

Have a great weekend and a safe 4th Chris and Bob and all others. Don't blow off any fingers, you'll need them to reply.:laugh:

EDIT: There is a reason it is called the Theory of Evolution, but I believe that you already knew that. When science discovers a mistake, they change and research some more. When fallacies are shown in the good books, you try to change the world to fit your beliefs.

Because I said so is not a logical defense. Try again. As for your proof. Well the very liberal Discovery channel did a show and there is where i go the info. It was re-aired on the History Channel as well. They took bible stories and showed modern day examples. They also talked about a man who was swallowed by a whale off the coast of South Africa and a commercial fisherman caught the whale and when they gutted it the man came out and stayed alive for almost a week before he died of secondary drowning. I will try ot find the airdate and episode name so you can look it up. It was about 4-5 years ago.

Buzzard
07-02-2011, 01:38 AM
You should think for yourself, but do you think your objectivety might be skewed and/or tainted by what happened to you as a child? Have you rejected GOD because you truly believe He doesn't exist? Or, did you reject Him because you were upset with the people you feel tried to brainwash/force-feed you a certain religion/cult--in other words, you were angry at them and you were going to "show them" by totally rejecting GOD altogether and not have anything to do with any religion? :unsure-1:

Hopefully I haven't bungled that too much and you get what I'm trying to ask.

What do you mean?

I get what you are trying to say and those are great questions Bonnie. I'll answer them after I finish watching the movie I'm watching.

EDIT: Nothing bad happened to me as a child in regards to church or religion. I (as most kids are probably IMO) didn't want to go to church, and it was always creepy. I don't believe because I truly don't and can't believe what I have read. Not to be offensive, but it is all so far fetched that I have trouble believing that people really do believe what is written in the books. It goes beyond reason, and when I first started objectively looking into it, I was a Christian. The more I read and researched, the harder it was for me to accept the ideas being presented as true. I can't force myself to believe something no matter how hard I try if there is no basis of fact or truth to it. I'm just being honest with myself, which I believe to be quite important. Religion uses scare tactics to rope em in, as do all cults. Surround yourself with enough like minded people and you can easily become one of the sheeple. It takes guts to go against the grain when everyone around you is rabidly religious and trying to force their archaic beliefs on you. I held out and stood fast, asking for proof, evidence, anything to help make me be able to believe. I was met with mockery, name calling, (as done here by Mark too), and weak arguments. My sisters are sad that I don't believe, and one still pisses me off by always trying to cram the crap down my throat. /EDIT

As for my comment "Separate but equal is anything but" is in regard to people who say that gays should just be happy with what they are allowed to do, and that they should be ok with civil unions even though they don't have the same rights as married couples do. Did you know that there are over 1000 legal protections and rights afforded to married couples which don't apply to civil unions. Separate but equal is anything but.

Again thanks for asking a relevant question in a non-obnoxious way. I can learn from you on this.

Because I said so is not a logical defense. Try again. As for your proof. Well the very liberal Discovery channel did a show and there is where i go the info. It was re-aired on the History Channel as well. They took bible stories and showed modern day examples. They also talked about a man who was swallowed by a whale off the coast of South Africa and a commercial fisherman caught the whale and when they gutted it the man came out and stayed alive for almost a week before he died of secondary drowning. I will try ot find the airdate and episode name so you can look it up. It was about 4-5 years ago.

Show me where I used the "because I said so" defense. Dishonesty from you at its finest.

Anecdotal stories are not evidence. Try again. Same as with your story of the guy you met who was supposedly brought back to life after (I believe) you said he was dead for 2 days.

EDIT: Nice. Picking on Flo says a lot more about you than it does about her.


Bob, it says a lot about you and others too when you only go after me for my actions and not others who have the same beliefs as you who play dirty cards. It seems their actions are ok because they belong to the same club as you. That is repulsive.

Bonnie
07-02-2011, 03:51 AM
As for flo, if she wants to bring me up in other threads in a derogatory way, and add her $.02 cents of nothing in this thread, then I will call her out as others call me out. I'm open for discussion and debate, she isn't capable from what I have seen.

But, Buzz, people are always using "+1" all the time as their "response" when agreeing with another's comment/post. Plus, two other people did the same thing (just said/wrote it differently).



Show me the scientific proof of the burning bush, I challenge you on that. Logic seems to be lost on you, as on most other religious folks when it comes to religion. You believe stuff without proof or evidence, I need more than that and so far there is little to none of it in regard to the outrageous claims made in the bible and quran.

Back on subject. Can you show me how the states that have already approved gay marriage have been destroyed by it?

Marriage is a civil contract which allows many rights to those whom are married. If you aren't allowed to marry the person you love, I believe rights are violated.

Please don't go off and then say that it would open the door up for man to marry animals or children as that is the most asinine argument out there. There are probably other asinine arguments, but these always rise to the top.



I think this is what initially prompted the whole gay marriage push--because they weren't afforded the same benefits/legal rights given to legally wed man-woman partners (medical decisions, legal benefits, etc...).

What does logic have to do with faith? Logic is a man-made box we humans keep trying to fit GOD into. JM2Cs

Buzzard
07-02-2011, 04:05 AM
But, Buzz, people are always using "+1" all the time as their "response" when agreeing with another's comment/post. Plus, two other people did the same thing (just said/wrote it differently).





I think this is what initially prompted the whole gay marriage push--because they weren't afforded the same benefits/legal rights given to legally wed man-woman partners (medical decisions, legal benefits, etc...).

What does logic have to do with faith? Logic is a man-made box we humans keep trying to fit GOD into. JM2Cs

Not sure if you read my edits answering your questions above.

As for the +1, it seems many only do that because they can't or won't write an original idea of their own, and only do it for their own team regardless of what the topic is. Flo chastised me for calling out NateR when he called me a liar and I proved he was wrong. It's ok to lie about folks if you are a christian according to her and she will stand by it no matter how wrong she is.

Bonnie, I have no beef with you as you seem to be a sincere nice person. You never made the list.:wink:

Bonnie
07-02-2011, 05:37 AM
I get what you are trying to say and those are great questions Bonnie. I'll answer them after I finish watching the movie I'm watching.

EDIT: Nothing bad happened to me as a child in regards to church or religion. I (as most kids are probably IMO) didn't want to go to church, and it was always creepy. I don't believe because I truly don't and can't believe what I have read. Not to be offensive, but it is all so far fetched that I have trouble believing that people really do believe what is written in the books. It goes beyond reason, and when I first started objectively looking into it, I was a Christian. The more I read and researched, the harder it was for me to accept the ideas being presented as true. I can't force myself to believe something no matter how hard I try if there is no basis of fact or truth to it. I'm just being honest with myself, which I believe to be quite important. Religion uses scare tactics to rope em in, as do all cults. Surround yourself with enough like minded people and you can easily become one of the sheeple. It takes guts to go against the grain when everyone around you is rabidly religious and trying to force their archaic beliefs on you. I held out and stood fast, asking for proof, evidence, anything to help make me be able to believe. I was met with mockery, name calling, (as done here by Mark too), and weak arguments. My sisters are sad that I don't believe, and one still pisses me off by always trying to cram the crap down my throat. /EDIT

As for my comment "Separate but equal is anything but" is in regard to people who say that gays should just be happy with what they are allowed to do, and that they should be ok with civil unions even though they don't have the same rights as married couples do. Did you know that there are over 1000 legal protections and rights afforded to married couples which don't apply to civil unions. Separate but equal is anything but.

Again thanks for asking a relevant question in a non-obnoxious way. I can learn from you on this.


Oh, I thought maybe your reactions and feelings regarding GOD and religion had to do with a "fanatical" religious upbringing that might have scarred you. My youngest sister says she doesn't believe either and, like your sisters, it saddens me. It is what it is, Buzz, but we can agree to disagree respectfully. :)

Maybe things could have been changed to allow for same-sex partners to have benefits/protections/rights without getting to this point of civil unions, I don't know... I'm not opposed to people making their own decision/choice as to who they want to have certain legal rights and benefits regarding their life, but I don't agree with gay marriage. I know you feel differently so we'll just agree to disagree on that....too. :)

Bonnie
07-02-2011, 06:27 AM
Not sure if you read my edits answering your questions above.

Yeah, I saw them after and responded (above). :)

Chris F
07-02-2011, 06:28 AM
I get what you are trying to say and those are great questions Bonnie. I'll answer them after I finish watching the movie I'm watching.

EDIT: Nothing bad happened to me as a child in regards to church or religion. I (as most kids are probably IMO) didn't want to go to church, and it was always creepy. I don't believe because I truly don't and can't believe what I have read. Not to be offensive, but it is all so far fetched that I have trouble believing that people really do believe what is written in the books. It goes beyond reason, and when I first started objectively looking into it, I was a Christian. The more I read and researched, the harder it was for me to accept the ideas being presented as true. I can't force myself to believe something no matter how hard I try if there is no basis of fact or truth to it. I'm just being honest with myself, which I believe to be quite important. Religion uses scare tactics to rope em in, as do all cults. Surround yourself with enough like minded people and you can easily become one of the sheeple. It takes guts to go against the grain when everyone around you is rabidly religious and trying to force their archaic beliefs on you. I held out and stood fast, asking for proof, evidence, anything to help make me be able to believe. I was met with mockery, name calling, (as done here by Mark too), and weak arguments. My sisters are sad that I don't believe, and one still pisses me off by always trying to cram the crap down my throat. /EDIT

As for my comment "Separate but equal is anything but" is in regard to people who say that gays should just be happy with what they are allowed to do, and that they should be ok with civil unions even though they don't have the same rights as married couples do. Did you know that there are over 1000 legal protections and rights afforded to married couples which don't apply to civil unions. Separate but equal is anything but.

Again thanks for asking a relevant question in a non-obnoxious way. I can learn from you on this.



Show me where I used the "because I said so" defense. Dishonesty from you at its finest.

Anecdotal stories are not evidence. Try again. Same as with your story of the guy you met who was supposedly brought back to life after (I believe) you said he was dead for 2 days.

EDIT:

Bob, it says a lot about you and others too when you only go after me for my actions and not others who have the same beliefs as you who play dirty cards. It seems their actions are ok because they belong to the same club as you. That is repulsive.

Buzz you wonder why you get muzzled all the time. You run your mouth and than back track. You say hey this or that than mince words to cover your hind quarters. The fact is nothing you said did you once offer any proof. And to cover yourself you build strawmen and bring up crap that is not relevant to this topic. In fact BUZZ this is about Gay marriage so why you hijacking a thread to whine and moan about a God you claim you do nto believe in. You logic is a huge fallacy and your attitude is even more rotten than mine and that is pretty bad. I cited my source and the other issue you came to me in a PM and I answered to you truthfully. The fact is you cant handle the truth so you will whine and moan and cry till NateR gets tired of your constant bellering and suspends you again. So either post some proof on the Gay marriage debate or shut the hell up already. this is not about your hatred for God this is about the Gay marriage issue stay on topic and prove your point or go troll BJ Penn .com. The fact you are getting on my nerves now shows you just how much you have wore out your welcome man. I defends you in the past but if you can;t hang and prove it than do us all a favor and hit the road jack. But I am sure we would all prefer you just put up or shut up because if we all agree it is very boring.

Rev
07-02-2011, 06:39 AM
Buzz you wonder why you get muzzled all the time. You run your mouth and than back track. You say hey this or that than mince words to cover your hind quarters. The fact is nothing you said did you once offer any proof. And to cover yourself you build strawmen and bring up crap that is not relevant to this topic. In fact BUZZ this is about Gay marriage so why you hijacking a thread to whine and moan about a God you claim you do nto believe in. You logic is a huge fallacy and your attitude is even more rotten than mine and that is pretty bad. I cited my source and the other issue you came to me in a PM and I answered to you truthfully. The fact is you cant handle the truth so you will whine and moan and cry till NateR gets tired of your constant bellering and suspends you again. So either post some proof on the Gay marriage debate or shut the hell up already. this is not about your hatred for God this is about the Gay marriage issue stay on topic and prove your point or go troll BJ Penn .com. The fact you are getting on my nerves now shows you just how much you have wore out your welcome man. I defends you in the past but if you can;t hang and prove it than do us all a favor and hit the road jack. But I am sure we would all prefer you just put up or shut up because if we all agree it is very boring.

That was funny bro. lol well played.

Buzzard
07-02-2011, 07:06 AM
Buzz you wonder why you get muzzled all the time. You run your mouth and than back track. You say hey this or that than mince words to cover your hind quarters. The fact is nothing you said did you once offer any proof. And to cover yourself you build strawmen and bring up crap that is not relevant to this topic. In fact BUZZ this is about Gay marriage so why you hijacking a thread to whine and moan about a God you claim you do nto believe in. You logic is a huge fallacy and your attitude is even more rotten than mine and that is pretty bad. I cited my source and the other issue you came to me in a PM and I answered to you truthfully. The fact is you cant handle the truth so you will whine and moan and cry till NateR gets tired of your constant bellering and suspends you again. So either post some proof on the Gay marriage debate or shut the hell up already. this is not about your hatred for God this is about the Gay marriage issue stay on topic and prove your point or go troll BJ Penn .com. The fact you are getting on my nerves now shows you just how much you have wore out your welcome man. I defends you in the past but if you can;t hang and prove it than do us all a favor and hit the road jack. But I am sure we would all prefer you just put up or shut up because if we all agree it is very boring.

Piss off Butch. There is no logic to religion. I brought the subject back to gay marriage, but perhaps you aren't intelligent enough to notice.

You have no proof of anything in your book, your arguments are weak. Show me the truth son, if you can. I bet you can't. In fact I challenge you to prove it. Your only arguments are arguments from ignorance.

Where have you defended me in my beliefs? If you have and I missed it, my apologies. See how that works, I apologize if I am wrong. You could learn a thing or two from me, but I doubt that you ever will. You are more stubborn than an old farm jackass. Stubbornness is good at times, but not when you don't use your brain.

Getting on your nerves is good, shows the real you. I won't hit the road, you don't scare me one bit. I can hang, you can't. In fact, your wanting me to shut up and leave only shows that I am getting into your head, possibly making you think for once. It must hurt you to actually realize that what I say has truth to it. You are an obnoxious fart who gets offended when I strike back. Like a child who hits someone and then when he gets hit back goes crying to mommy like a spoiled brat. I'm enjoying this and as you can see, I am quite capable of having a pleasant conversation with someone when they aren't rude to me. You are a rude jerk at times, and I feel that I shall respond in kind to your attacks. If you aren't man enough to hang, leave the big boys and girls alone.

Believe it or not, I have people on here who are in agreement with me on many topics and wish that I continue. I am the voice that you don't want to hear because you are afraid of reality.

Why don't you clean out your own dirty closet before trying to clean up others. Didn't Jesus supposedly say "All manner of sin will be forgiven of men, save one," the one being blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Seems like if you can be forgiven for gluttony, bad thoughts, and everything in between, gays can be forgiven too even if they practice their homosexuality.

How does gay marriage affect yours? Have the states that have already allowed it imploded? Why do you wish to impose your religious beliefs on people who don't share your same views? Them getting married doesn't hurt you one bit, but yet you still cry and whine like a little girl. Man up son. Don't like it when I treat you like this do you? Perhaps you will learn from this. My bet is that you won't.

So, give evidence where gay marriage will hurt your marriage and all of civilization or shut it.

Chris F
07-02-2011, 06:31 PM
Piss off Butch. There is no logic to religion. I brought the subject back to gay marriage, but perhaps you aren't intelligent enough to notice.

You have no proof of anything in your book, your arguments are weak. Show me the truth son, if you can. I bet you can't. In fact I challenge you to prove it. Your only arguments are arguments from ignorance.

Where have you defended me in my beliefs? If you have and I missed it, my apologies. See how that works, I apologize if I am wrong. You could learn a thing or two from me, but I doubt that you ever will. You are more stubborn than an old farm jackass. Stubbornness is good at times, but not when you don't use your brain.

Getting on your nerves is good, shows the real you. I won't hit the road, you don't scare me one bit. I can hang, you can't. In fact, your wanting me to shut up and leave only shows that I am getting into your head, possibly making you think for once. It must hurt you to actually realize that what I say has truth to it. You are an obnoxious fart who gets offended when I strike back. Like a child who hits someone and then when he gets hit back goes crying to mommy like a spoiled brat. I'm enjoying this and as you can see, I am quite capable of having a pleasant conversation with someone when they aren't rude to me. You are a rude jerk at times, and I feel that I shall respond in kind to your attacks. If you aren't man enough to hang, leave the big boys and girls alone.

Believe it or not, I have people on here who are in agreement with me on many topics and wish that I continue. I am the voice that you don't want to hear because you are afraid of reality.

Why don't you clean out your own dirty closet before trying to clean up others. Didn't Jesus supposedly say "All manner of sin will be forgiven of men, save one," the one being blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Seems like if you can be forgiven for gluttony, bad thoughts, and everything in between, gays can be forgiven too even if they practice their homosexuality.

How does gay marriage affect yours? Have the states that have already allowed it imploded? Why do you wish to impose your religious beliefs on people who don't share your same views? Them getting married doesn't hurt you one bit, but yet you still cry and whine like a little girl. Man up son. Don't like it when I treat you like this do you? Perhaps you will learn from this. My bet is that you won't.

So, give evidence where gay marriage will hurt your marriage and all of civilization or shut it.

see Buzz you can dish but you can't take it. You want logic use it. You have the burden of proof because you made the positive claim and it is not my problem you are not educated in basic argumentation. Marriage is a religious institution. If they simply want they civil contract they can get that in all 50 states and Guam, Samoa and those other tiny islands we own. So your point is moot and deflated rather easily. You claim they are losing rights so you must prove what right and cite what article of the Constitution protect that right and defend it. Which you cannot because they are not being denied a single right because marriage is not a right. So grow up butch and stop trolling the forum and man up to the fact you are dead wrong and your mouth rights checks your brain can't cash.

Spiritwalker
07-02-2011, 08:12 PM
Man... I cannot..repeat.. CANNOT believe I am about to do this....:sad:

your attitude is even more rotten than mine and that is pretty bad.

I really do have to agree with this...

I have some very specific beliefs when it comes to religion.. I agree with ALLOT of what the majority here believe.. and what I don't agree with.. I REALLY don't agree with....

but....

Buzzard... you need to be a bit more respectful... The majority of people that frequent this site have some very deep religious beliefs.. and if you want to bash.. (real or imagined)... those beliefs.. it just results in "name calling".... if you want to discuss.. then discuss... if you just say.. "show me proof"... then if becomes.. "he said she said".. and from there you appear like ChrisF on a bad day.

Buzzard you come across as pretty intelligent... but not very respectful of others beliefs...

I have issues with what's in the Bible... I really do.. But to call out Mark/Chris/Matt/Nate/Ben and all of the others that have a very passionate belief in the Word... is very low class. Belief in God.. in the written Word.. can not be proven... in fact the written Word.. can not be proven... It's there.. take it or leave it. That you and I believe differently does not mean it's ok or even right to say they are wrong..

If you want to take an "intellectual high road".. and think... "ah the silly kids.. they are just thinking wrong..".. then do that. But one thing you can not do is tell a Christian.. basically that they are stupid... it's uncool.. and just plain dumb.

Guess what.. you believe that religion is "just stories".. and they don't.. you believe it so much.. you want to share it with those that have the curtains pulled in front of their eyes... that's exactly what they (people of Faith) believe about people like you...

Agree to disagree... find a common ground and discuss...but don't call people of faith out. You are showing the same faith.. just in a different direction.

And guess what... they could be 100% correct. I don't think so.. but I can acknowledge that I can be wrong also.

Buzzard
07-03-2011, 12:13 AM
Man... I cannot..repeat.. CANNOT believe I am about to do this....:sad:



I really do have to agree with this...

I have some very specific beliefs when it comes to religion.. I agree with ALLOT of what the majority here believe.. and what I don't agree with.. I REALLY don't agree with....

but....

Buzzard... you need to be a bit more respectful... The majority of people that frequent this site have some very deep religious beliefs.. and if you want to bash.. (real or imagined)... those beliefs.. it just results in "name calling".... if you want to discuss.. then discuss... if you just say.. "show me proof"... then if becomes.. "he said she said".. and from there you appear like ChrisF on a bad day.

Buzzard you come across as pretty intelligent... but not very respectful of others beliefs...

I have issues with what's in the Bible... I really do.. But to call out Mark/Chris/Matt/Nate/Ben and all of the others that have a very passionate belief in the Word... is very low class. Belief in God.. in the written Word.. can not be proven... in fact the written Word.. can not be proven... It's there.. take it or leave it. That you and I believe differently does not mean it's ok or even right to say they are wrong..

If you want to take an "intellectual high road".. and think... "ah the silly kids.. they are just thinking wrong..".. then do that. But one thing you can not do is tell a Christian.. basically that they are stupid... it's uncool.. and just plain dumb.

Guess what.. you believe that religion is "just stories".. and they don't.. you believe it so much.. you want to share it with those that have the curtains pulled in front of their eyes... that's exactly what they (people of Faith) believe about people like you...

Agree to disagree... find a common ground and discuss...but don't call people of faith out. You are showing the same faith.. just in a different direction.

And guess what... they could be 100% correct. I don't think so.. but I can acknowledge that I can be wrong also.

Hey spirit, respect goes both ways. When some is shown to me, I will show it back. When others such as Mark make a statement that I am a fool for my beliefs, why don't you chastise him? Edit: Remember, Mark is the one who first called names./Edit Could it be because you don't practice what you preach, Edit: or you really don't have the values which you say you do?/Edit

I'll sit and wait for the chastising of Mark to begin. How about when NateR called me a liar and I showed and proved him wrong. Didn't hear a peep from you or any others here. It's a one way street according to you. Also never heard an apology from Nate either. Did you or will you call him out on that?

A real man will stand up for those who are wronged even when it goes against their personal opinions of that person. So far, you haven't shown me that you are a real man. Now's your chance.

Spiritwalker
07-03-2011, 01:26 AM
The main difference is that you continually act the same... Where as others have been willing to discuss things with you

Buzzard
07-03-2011, 01:42 AM
The main difference is that you continually act the same... Where as others have been willing to discuss things with you

Ah, so you don't practice what you preach. I get it now.

Spiritwalker
07-03-2011, 05:00 AM
no.. I do practice what I preach... that's the difference between you and I it may seem.

You go looking for fights..

Buzzard
07-03-2011, 05:16 AM
no.. I do practice what I preach... that's the difference between you and I it may seem.

You go looking for fights..

Question for you spirit, gloves off. If someone uses religion as a weapon in politics, do you think it is fair to target it?

Edit: If you look closely spirit, this time the fight came looking for me after mark called me a fool. I happened to fight back and despite the dog pile, I'm holding my own quite well.

Neezar
07-03-2011, 05:26 AM
Getting on your nerves is good, shows the real you. I won't hit the road, you don't scare me one bit. I can hang, you can't. In fact, your wanting me to shut up and leave only shows that I am getting into your head, possibly making you think for once. It must hurt you to actually realize that what I say has truth to it.

You are an obnoxious fart who gets offended when I strike back. Like a child who hits someone and then when he gets hit back goes crying to mommy like a spoiled brat. I'm enjoying this and as you can see, I am quite capable of having a pleasant conversation with someone when they aren't rude to me. You are a rude jerk at times, and I feel that I shall respond in kind to your attacks. If you aren't man enough to hang, leave the big boys and girls alone.



Are you intentionally trying to get people on here to turn away from God? Is that what you are enjoying?

Buzzard
07-03-2011, 05:48 AM
see Buzz you can dish but you can't take it. You want logic use it. You have the burden of proof because you made the positive claim and it is not my problem you are not educated in basic argumentation. Marriage is a religious institution. If they simply want they civil contract they can get that in all 50 states and Guam, Samoa and those other tiny islands we own. So your point is moot and deflated rather easily. You claim they are losing rights so you must prove what right and cite what article of the Constitution protect that right and defend it. Which you cannot because they are not being denied a single right because marriage is not a right. So grow up butch and stop trolling the forum and man up to the fact you are dead wrong and your mouth rights checks your brain can't cash.

Hey Chris, how about showing me where in the CONUS marriage of any kind is mentioned.

Again, a civil union doesn't provide the same benefits as marriage. You know this to be true. A lie of omission is still a lie and you are a master. Again, show me where in the CONUS that it states marriage is a religious institution.

Since you aren't able to research it for yourself, here you go.

Info #1 (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922609.html)

Info #2 (http://www.now.org/issues/marriage/marriage_unions.html)

Info #3 (http://www.factcheck.org/what_is_a_civil_union.html)

It's funny, wasn't it you who stated that I should be allowed to post in the C-section earlier? What made you change your mind, the fact that I called you out to clean out your own closet? Have you ever practiced sodomy in your marriage? Are you a perfect person?

What positive claim are you saying I made? It seems to me that you have made the positive claims of a god numerous times without anything to back it up. Care to take a stab at it? Care to answer any of the other questions posed to you?

If marriage is not a right, why are man/women allowed to marry but not same sex couples? Should we disallow men and women from marrying each other since it's not a right?

My wallet is fat with cash. I don't write checks. Maybe you should learn to steward your money better.

Buzzard
07-03-2011, 06:06 AM
Are you intentionally trying to get people on here to turn away from God? Is that what you are enjoying?

Nope, I'm enjoying the debate. I enjoy seeing someone say one thing and act another way against the teachings they claim to follow. I see that you too only chastise me but not the ones who strike first. I didn't strike first, Mark did by calling me a fool. You saw that right, just like you saw Nate lie about me and be proved wrong but said nothing of that either in another thread? That says a lot about you too.

Perhaps I should turn the other cheek when struck first, but that isn't in my good book, I'm just a dirty heathen remember.

Care to add anything to the topic? Care to answer any of the questions posed to chris. Is your closet clean?

When religion is used as a weapon in politics, I find it fair to target it. Do you disagree? If so, why?

Seriously, I hold no ill will towards you or most of the members here. Sure I get ticked off from time to time and probably should step back instead of firing off, but you'll notice I treat those with respect who treat me the same way. Chris has been known to treat all like a pile of steaming poop, I like treating him the same way. I'll try to work on that too for you, how about that.

It's funny that the heathen in the bunch has the best interests for the oppressed.

How does gay marriage affect yours if you are married? Have the states that have allowed it been destroyed from it?

Traditional marriage through the ages (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150227178884296&set=a.106242959295.95892.90895259295&type=1&theater)

Chris F
07-03-2011, 09:04 AM
Hey Chris, how about showing me where in the CONUS marriage of any kind is mentioned.

Again, a civil union doesn't provide the same benefits as marriage. You know this to be true. A lie of omission is still a lie and you are a master. Again, show me where in the CONUS that it states marriage is a religious institution.

Since you aren't able to research it for yourself, here you go.

Info #1 (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922609.html)

Info #2 (http://www.now.org/issues/marriage/marriage_unions.html)

Info #3 (http://www.factcheck.org/what_is_a_civil_union.html)

It's funny, wasn't it you who stated that I should be allowed to post in the C-section earlier? What made you change your mind, the fact that I called you out to clean out your own closet? Have you ever practiced sodomy in your marriage? Are you a perfect person?

What positive claim are you saying I made? It seems to me that you have made the positive claims of a god numerous times without anything to back it up. Care to take a stab at it? Care to answer any of the other questions posed to you?

If marriage is not a right, why are man/women allowed to marry but not same sex couples? Should we disallow men and women from marrying each other since it's not a right?

My wallet is fat with cash. I don't write checks. Maybe you should learn to steward your money better.

That is th epoint Buzz. Marriage is not a right. However I will be happy to show you what the supreme court said on it.

Murphy v. Ramsey & Others, 144 U.S. 15, 45, held, “Certainly no legislation can be supposed more wholesome and necessary in the founding of a free, self-governing commonwealth ... than that which seeks to establish it on the basis of the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony; the sure foundation of all that is stable and noble in our civilization; the best guarantee of that reverent morality which is the source of all beneficent progress in social and political improvement.”

Marriage according to rule of law is one man one woman. If the gays want the civil contract they can file with their states for the same rights as any married couple. It really is that simple. SO federally the gov cannot legally validate nor endorse marriage. The state can do so via the 10th amendment but the feds cannot make another state recognize the union which is what they are pushing for. So please have a little hot sauce with your foot and enjoy your dinner. You have a better chance winning the lottery than wining an argument about history or religion with me. Take SW advice agree to disagree and save a little face. :)

Chris F
07-03-2011, 09:09 AM
BTW I do think you should post in the "C-Section" I have been banned from their just as much as you have. They have rules. If we cannot follow them than we should loose of right to post there and that is exactly what I told you. I enjoy rebuttals because I love to argue. And liberal agnostics are my favorite because they can be so easily proven wrong because their logic is built upon strawmen and cut and paste hack jobs.

As for my closet it is very clean thanks for asking. Might be a few moths but for the most part neat and pressed and thanks to the blood of great it is white as snow.

Buzzard
07-03-2011, 07:17 PM
BTW I do think you should post in the "C-Section" I have been banned from their just as much as you have. They have rules. If we cannot follow them than we should loose of right to post there and that is exactly what I told you. I enjoy rebuttals because I love to argue. And liberal agnostics are my favorite because they can be so easily proven wrong because their logic is built upon strawmen and cut and paste hack jobs.

As for my closet it is very clean thanks for asking. Might be a few moths but for the most part neat and pressed and thanks to the blood of great it is white as snow.

Just like all of the other marriage laws that were used to deny, this one too shall pass.

You haven't proven anyone wrong in anything Chris. Answer the other questions if you will. Just because you like to act like an arrogant ass at times doesn't qualify as a win. Your biblical bigotry doesn't pass as a win.

You wanted proof of benefits that aren't available to civil unions, I provided them but of course once I showed you how wrong you were, you shut up pretty quickly about it. You also dodged just about every question posed to you. Why do you constantly dodge questions? Separate but equal is anything but. I believe that you are not truthful about your closet.

Do you feel if religion and religious beliefs are used to deny benefits and allowances for people in the political scope, religion and those who espouse those beliefs are valid targets? How does it affect your marriage? Do you agree that the level of benefits in civil unions doesn't equal the benefits of marriage.

Do you think that same sex civil unions should have the same benefits as marriage but just want it under a different name?

Chris F
07-04-2011, 08:09 AM
Just like all of the other marriage laws that were used to deny, this one too shall pass.

You haven't proven anyone wrong in anything Chris. Answer the other questions if you will. Just because you like to act like an arrogant ass at times doesn't qualify as a win. Your biblical bigotry doesn't pass as a win.

You wanted proof of benefits that aren't available to civil unions, I provided them but of course once I showed you how wrong you were, you shut up pretty quickly about it. You also dodged just about every question posed to you. Why do you constantly dodge questions? Separate but equal is anything but. I believe that you are not truthful about your closet.

Do you feel if religion and religious beliefs are used to deny benefits and allowances for people in the political scope, religion and those who espouse those beliefs are valid targets? How does it affect your marriage? Do you agree that the level of benefits in civil unions doesn't equal the benefits of marriage.

Do you think that same sex civil unions should have the same benefits as marriage but just want it under a different name?

Civil union are not the same as making civil contracts you bozo. NO read this carfully. What right thats what I said RIGHT do gays not get that married couple do and cite the constitution article and section. Say nothing else and just answer that only and than we can talk. Refrain from being a pompous donkey and a ad hominem whine bag (yes I know the hypocrisy of what I said) And breathe real deep and now type. If you say anything else other than the answer it will be obvious you are so full of crap your eyes must be brown. Many of us already knwo the answer because as always you will post a whole bunch of words and none of them will be the answer. Do not post links to your favorite liberal taking points or blogs just the article and section of the RIGHTS gay do not get that Married couple do. :wink:

Chris F
07-04-2011, 08:16 AM
Just like all of the other marriage laws that were used to deny, this one too shall pass.

You haven't proven anyone wrong in anything Chris. Answer the other questions if you will. Just because you like to act like an arrogant ass at times doesn't qualify as a win. Your biblical bigotry doesn't pass as a win.

You wanted proof of benefits that aren't available to civil unions, I provided them but of course once I showed you how wrong you were, you shut up pretty quickly about it. You also dodged just about every question posed to you. Why do you constantly dodge questions? Separate but equal is anything but. I believe that you are not truthful about your closet.

Do you feel if religion and religious beliefs are used to deny benefits and allowances for people in the political scope, religion and those who espouse those beliefs are valid targets? Marriage is not a right and it is a religious institution and based on the first amendment congress cannot make any laws about religion and thus the feds cannot make laws about marriage only the sates can via the 10th.How does it affect your marriage? That is a rabbit trail and irrelevant to the topic at hand. You cannot argue my personal examples as logical citation. My gosh have you never taken a calss in logic or what?Do you agree that the level of benefits in civil unions doesn't equal the benefits of marriage.I am opposed to anything federally backed no matter what the name based on the facts I have already showed you including the case law to support it. So until you can prove they do not get a right similar to straight couples you are arguing nothing more than a huge fallacy so now you answer my question and spare me anymore straw men

Do you think that same sex civil unions should have the same benefits as marriage but just want it under a different name?Not at all because it is the same perversion different name. You need to learn the difference between civil unions and domestic contracts.

Answers in red

Buzzard
07-04-2011, 09:25 AM
Civil union are not the same as making civil contracts you bozo. NO read this carfully. What right thats what I said RIGHT do gays not get that married couple do and cite the constitution article and section. Say nothing else and just answer that only and than we can talk. Refrain from being a pompous donkey and a ad hominem whine bag (yes I know the hypocrisy of what I said) And breathe real deep and now type. If you say anything else other than the answer it will be obvious you are so full of crap your eyes must be brown. Many of us already knwo the answer because as always you will post a whole bunch of words and none of them will be the answer. Do not post links to your favorite liberal taking points or blogs just the article and section of the RIGHTS gay do not get that Married couple do. :wink:

Call names when you can't make a point. The sure sign of a loser. Wipe the L off your forehead if your fat arms can reach it.

Marriage is a civil union, a civil contract you dolt. When you learn to read, come back. Otherwise piss off you blowhard. You really should read your good book, obviously you don't believe what is written because you are such a hypocrite.

It's hard to read what you write because you are too stupid to grasp the English language. Get back on the short bus and go back to school you ignorant puke.

I fart in your general direction./ Monty Python

My apologies to the other members, but I just said what you all want to say to Chris.

Buzzard
07-04-2011, 09:27 AM
Answers in red

You mean non answers in red.

Buzzard
07-04-2011, 09:41 AM
Answers in red

My gosh have you never taken a calss in logic or what?

Actually no, I have never taken a logic class. Learn to spell, moron. I'm just a high-school educated person and much more intelligent than you, even still. Sure, you may have something on me in logic, but that's it. You still suck at it though.

Have you ever taken an English or grammar class? It sure doesn't seem so with your abysmal grasp on the subjects. How did you ever graduate? Oh yeah, no child left behind or you were too big to fit in the seats. /snap

Tyburn
07-04-2011, 10:57 AM
We can be nice in this thread and stop calling each other names. or we can kiss this opportunity for discussion goodbye.

Chris no more pompous donkey...Buzzard, stick to the topic and quit talking about morons and english language education, or lack thereof.

I'm in a REALLY bad mood, So lets try and pretend we are civilized and decent human beings having a discussion based on the topic at hand. Or the freedom you take for granted by posting shyte to each other will no longer be yours to abuse in this thread.

Chris F
07-04-2011, 07:29 PM
Call names when you can't make a point. The sure sign of a loser. Wipe the L off your forehead if your fat arms can reach it.

Marriage is a civil union, a civil contract you dolt. When you learn to read, come back. Otherwise piss off you blowhard. You really should read your good book, obviously you don't believe what is written because you are such a hypocrite.

It's hard to read what you write because you are too stupid to grasp the English language. Get back on the short bus and go back to school you ignorant puke.

I fart in your general direction./ Monty Python

My apologies to the other members, but I just said what you all want to say to Chris.

:laugh: What an Ass. Thanks for proving my point as everyone saw Buzzard did nto post a single article or section in the constitution and all he had was a very pathetic whine fest about my uneditied post. Sorry Buzz but unlike you I do not care if people have perfect grammar or make typos because this is a forum not Time magazine. So if that is the best you got go away already. You are stinking up this place real bad.

Also for the record and let it show. As is Buzzards style he DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION AND INSTEAD PERSONALLY ATTACKED ME BECAUSE INSULTS IS ALL HIS LITTLE MIND CAN COME UP WITH.

So we know without a doubt Buzz knows for a fact there is not a SINGLE right gays do not get that married couples do and as usual he is wrong and the rest of the forum is right. Have a great 4th and enjoy your freedom to be a blowhard and donkey.

Chris F
07-04-2011, 07:31 PM
You mean non answers in red.

Sorry the truth hurts. If they were non answers you have proof but as usual you have NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris F
07-04-2011, 07:40 PM
Actually no, I have never taken a logic class. Learn to spell, moron. I'm just a high-school educated person and much more intelligent than you, even still. Sure, you may have something on me in logic, but that's it. You still suck at it though.

Have you ever taken an English or grammar class? It sure doesn't seem so with your abysmal grasp on the subjects. How did you ever graduate? Oh yeah, no child left behind or you were too big to fit in the seats. /snap

:cry: boo hoo I am Buzzard and I am not smart enough to argue with Chris so I will look cool by making fun of his spelling boo hoo :cry: my gosh man grow a pair already BTW I am a published author and wrote Op-Eds for a Newspaper for nearly 2 years and even did freelance work. This is a forum I do not worry about perfection Buzz and no one does. Typical liberal slime you can't win the argument so you whine about grammar and spelling. Here's a tissue when you get done crying; how about you educate yourself on the facts and come back to reality. The US Constitution is avaliable online go read it for a change then when you get the revelation that hey marriage is not a right and according to case law Chris was right come back here and tell the good folks you are sorry for being a pompous donkey and will no longer troll the website because you lack the logic of preschooler and have no place in the presence of such excellence. Have a nice day

Chris F
07-04-2011, 07:45 PM
We can be nice in this thread and stop calling each other names. or we can kiss this opportunity for discussion goodbye.

Chris no more pompous donkey...Buzzard, stick to the topic and quit talking about morons and english language education, or lack thereof.

I'm in a REALLY bad mood, So lets try and pretend we are civilized and decent human beings having a discussion based on the topic at hand. Or the freedom you take for granted by posting shyte to each other will no longer be yours to abuse in this thread.

Come on Dave it is Buzzard and that is the only language he speaks. Had he attempted civility that maybe he would have got some. Buzz is incapable of understand facts and logic because they are so foreign to him all he can understand is my "very well defined arms" pimp slapping him to last week so he could try again and spare himself this embarrassment. :tongue0011: smile Dave I know today we Americans celebrate telling you all to stick it and it is no wonder you are in a bad mood. But truthfully I hope your day gets better. I get to go to work for 10 hours. :)

Tyburn
07-04-2011, 08:55 PM
:rolleyes:

You were warned.

You ignored your warning.

I've had a Shyte day

Now your Abuse of the Freedom to post in this (and Buzzards ability to further this in response to you) No longer exist in the Thread.

In the words of my Sugarplum....

"Goodbye"

Mark
07-05-2011, 12:57 AM
Am I allowed to state my honest opinion of you Mark, or will I get banned for it? I surly hope that you can take it if you can dish it.

You ask if I believe anything in the bible. In general, about as much as I believe the story of the 3 little pigs. Some historical aspects yes though. If you give me specific passages, I can address them individually. Do you believe everything that is in the bible happened? Everything.



Please tell me you're not another one of the end of the world folks out there.



Celebrate! Unfortunately it's not going to happen so I'll still be stuck on this rock with you.



I've already got my 666 tattooed on my skull, had horn implants and split my tongue. I'm fully decked out in Satan art all over my body. :scared0015::rolleyes: To make it clear, I have no tats, horns or tongue split. There is no such thing in reality, so I couldn't take it even if I wanted to.

Have you even read the bible all the way through Mark? Most all of it, I read most every night. How many times? How long have you been a christian? 4/7/04 What made you into a believer? Wanted to raise my kids in church, had nothing to do with me. When the Holy Spirit grabs you... thats it.Why weren't you before? I guess it wasnt my time.Did you first read the bible and then convert, or did you do it without researching it. When you have strong feelings like I did you dont have to research... you just know.
I believe that the reason most people turn agnostic and atheist is because they have read the bible. Now I admit it's been quite a few years since I have read it completely and I find it interesting, but it is only a book of fiction to me. I was brainwashed and forced/indoctrinated into believing as a child. I had no choice then but I do now, and there is no way I can force myself into believing something as far fetched as the bible.
I dont think you believe in anything. What is going to happen to you when you die?
I'll address other responses if I am allowed to freely express my opinion, and I'll be able to do it without calling anyone a derogatory name.

I dont know if you are a fool or not. When you act like a fool then people think you are.

29.Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Tyburn
07-05-2011, 12:27 PM
:mellow:

Well. As Mark Hughes appears to want to continue with the debate. I suppose I may aswell Re-Open the thread to give everyone else the right to reply.

Please. Do continue. Dont mind me.

:laugh:

Dethbob
07-05-2011, 02:11 PM
At least you are honest enough to say that there is no proof. Kudos to you.

There is plenty of proof, just none that you will believe. People still don’t believe we landed on the moon: All the photographs? FAKED! All the documentation? FORGED! Thousands of witnesses? LIARS ALL!

You are asking for proof of a burning bush that was not consumed. Really? If I showed you a bush that was not burned, you would suddenly believe? If I showed you proof that it could have happened, would that prove it happened, or would that prove that it was not a miracle?

For evidence, you need look no further than your own heart. Of all the religions in the world, the only one you have a problem with is The Truth: you always speak gently of Islam and have never had a cross word for Buddhism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, or Oprahism.

Now bear in mind I answer only for my own satisfaction and the amusement of the readership; I know that you will barely skim my post before changing the subject, insulting me, attacking a straw man, playing the victim, accusing me of refusing to engage in discussion, and then because you have no sense of irony you will also accuse me of hypocrisy. You have learned to use your intelligence to avoid learning the most important things.

Neezar
07-05-2011, 02:34 PM
:mellow:

Well. As Mark Hughes appears to want to continue with the debate. I suppose I may aswell Re-Open the thread to give everyone else the right to reply.

Please. Do continue. Dont mind me.

:laugh:

Come on, Dave, let's get out of here!

:laugh:

Spiritwalker
07-05-2011, 02:46 PM
:mellow:

Well. As Mark Hughes appears to want to continue with the debate. I suppose I may aswell Re-Open the thread to give everyone else the right to reply.

Please. Do continue. Dont mind me.

:laugh:

well... determining that you are closing a thread cause you had a bad day... really shouldn't factor is should it?

Tyburn
07-05-2011, 07:32 PM
well... determining that you are closing a thread cause you had a bad day... really shouldn't factor is should it?

:laugh: Shut up Spiritwalker :laugh:

I will factor in what I want...since none of it seems to matter anyway :wink:

Tyburn
07-05-2011, 07:33 PM
Come on, Dave, let's get out of here!

:laugh:

Sounds like a plan :cool:

Mark
07-25-2011, 12:20 AM
The gays are getn married in New York today!

flo
07-25-2011, 12:55 AM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/floranista/gaywedding.jpg

Why is it that one of a lesbian couple often looks like a guy?

flo
07-25-2011, 01:04 AM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/floranista/IBTL.jpg

Tyburn
07-25-2011, 01:28 AM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/floranista/gaywedding.jpg

Why is it that one of a lesbian couple often looks like a guy?

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

They both look a lil like guys to me, in a drag queen kinda way :blink:

flo
07-25-2011, 02:06 AM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

They both look a lil like guys to me, in a drag queen kinda way :blink:Well, yes, neither looks very feminine but there definitely is a "man" in this relationship, right down to the tux....