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Neezar
06-07-2011, 04:59 PM
http://beta.news.yahoo.com/jilted-ex-boyfriend-puts-abortion-billboard-194142831.html

Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/kjmVjizroQE0M3Nlej7hqQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9Zml0O2g9Mjc-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/logo/ap/ap_logo_106.png (http://www.ap.org/)


ALAMOGORDO, N.M. (AP) — A New Mexico man's decision to lash out with a billboard ad saying his ex-girlfriend had an abortion against his wishes has touched off a legal debate over free speech and privacy rights.

The sign on Alamogordo's main thoroughfare shows 35-year-old Greg Fultz holding the outline of an infant. The text reads, "This Would Have Been A Picture Of My 2-Month Old Baby If The Mother Had Decided To Not KILL Our Child!"

Fultz's ex-girlfriend has taken him to court for harassment and violation of privacy. A domestic court official has recommended the billboard be removed.

But Fultz's attorney argues the order violates his client's free speech rights.

"As distasteful and offensive as the sign may be to some, for over 200 years in this country the First Amendment protects distasteful and offensive speech," Todd Holmes said.

The woman's friends say she had a miscarriage, not an abortion, according to a report in the Albuquerque Journal.

Holmes disputes that, saying his case is based on the accuracy of his client's statement.
"My argument is: What Fultz said is the truth," Holmes said.

The woman's lawyer said she had not discussed the pregnancy with her client. But for Ellen Jessen, whether her client had a miscarriage or an abortion is not the point. The central issue is her client's privacy and the fact that the billboard has caused severe emotional distress, Jessen said.
"Her private life is not a matter of public interest," she told the Alamogordo Daily News.

Jessen says her client's ex-boyfriend has crossed the line.
"Nobody is stopping him from talking about father's rights. ... but a person can't invade someone's private life."

For his part, Holmes invoked the U.S. Supreme Court decision from earlier this year concerning the Westboro Baptist Church, which is known for its anti-gay protests at military funerals and other high-profile events. He believes the high court's decision to allow the protests, as hurtful as they are, is grounds for his client to put up the abortion billboard.

"Very unpopular offensive speech," he told the Alamogordo Daily News. "The Supreme Court, in an 8 to 1 decision, said that is protected speech."
Holmes says he is going to fight the order to remove the billboard through a District Court appeal.

BamaGrits84
06-07-2011, 05:21 PM
Legally this is just the same as what Westboro does. The high level of offensiveness some people find in it doesn't make it illegal. And since he is not her healtcare professional and her attorney isn't suing for slander he hasn't done anything legally wrong. Billboards are not coverd under harssing communications and in this case since the communication is not directly to her so I don't see much legal room for her to fight him.

I'm 100% against abortion for ANY reason and think it is completely unfair that women can murder their children without the father having a say so. So while his message is something I agree with, I wonder what his motives are. If his motives are to bring pain to her, he is in the wrong even if the abortion pained him. Revenge is the Lord's, so sayth the Good Book. I read this on foxnews earlier and one of the comments was where someone checked this guy out on facebook. He belonged, according to this one comment, to Facebook groups about witch craft including one that claims Jesus was a witch. I guess I would have to better understand his motives to decide if I supported his actions.

County Mike
06-07-2011, 05:29 PM
Agreed Bama. It might not be illegal but what's the point? The only reason i can think of for him doing this is to pain/embarrass the ex and that's just stupid.

Primadawn
06-07-2011, 06:29 PM
I read this and my take was that he was trying to bring focus to the point that fathers have no say in whether or not a mother decides to end her pregnancy.

He didn't use her name, so unless people knew the 2 of them personally, it wasn't releasing private info.

rearnakedchoke
06-07-2011, 06:37 PM
I read this and my take was that he was trying to bring focus to the point that fathers have no say in whether or not a mother decides to end her pregnancy.

He didn't use her name, so unless people knew the 2 of them personally, it wasn't releasing private info.

well, in the end, they shouldn't ... abortion is a tough topic to talk about, but in the end, a man shouldn't be able to make a women have a child ..

BamaGrits84
06-07-2011, 06:56 PM
well, in the end, they shouldn't ... abortion is a tough topic to talk about, but in the end, a man shouldn't be able to make a women have a child ..

As a woman and mom I call bull. Carrying the baby doesn't make the child any more a part of the mom than it does the dad. The child was given life by equal parts. What gives the mother any more say so as the the value of the child's life? Because she has to carry him or her for 9 months? So the dad has to deal with his child being murdered because the mom doesn't want to be a parent? It is a selfish view that only 1 person is impacted by pregnancy - the woman. But 3 PEOPLE are involved. Mom dad and baby. "A man shouldn't be able to make a woman have a child", but a woman should be able to murder a baby the father desires to have? I know someone will surely bring up the arguement of men who want women to have babies to control them and to that I saw before you sleep with someone you better figure out what kind of person they are first. If you don't, you made your bed and screwed in it so deal with the fact that your actions just as much as the man's brought a new life into the relationship and don't see murder as a reasonable way to cut all ties with someone you wish you never banged to begin with.

Spiritwalker
06-07-2011, 07:01 PM
I read this and my take was that he was trying to bring focus to the point that fathers have no say in whether or not a mother decides to end her pregnancy.


and honestly they shouldn't.. IMO.. but the other side of the coin is..if she didn't mis-carry/have an abortion...

Should the father have any say so in how the mother goes about living her life during the pregnancy.. health concerns and such..

just food for thought...

does pregnancy equate to living your life during pregnancy to standards that are not "your own".. even if you find that they disagree with you??

rearnakedchoke
06-07-2011, 07:02 PM
As a woman and mom I call bull. Carrying the baby doesn't make the child any more a part of the mom than it does the dad. The child was given life by equal parts. What gives the mother any more say so as the the value of the child's life? Because she has to carry him or her for 9 months? So the dad has to deal with his child being murdered because the mom doesn't want to be a parent? It is a selfish view that only 1 person is impacted by pregnancy - the woman. But 3 PEOPLE are involved. Mom dad and baby. "A man shouldn't be able to make a woman have a child", but a woman should be able to murder a baby the father desires to have? I know someone will surely bring up the arguement of men who want women to have babies to control them and to that I saw before you sleep with someone you better figure out what kind of person they are first. If you don't, you made your bed and screwed in it so deal with the fact that your actions just as much as the man's brought a new life into the relationship and don't see murder as a reasonable way to cut all ties with someone you wish you never banged to begin with.
shouldn't the man also be responsible for finding out about his women first? what if the man doesn't like the fact that the lady smokes or drinks during pregnancy, should he be able to ensure she doesn't do either? what about eating junk food? i know it ain't the same, but you are still controlling what a person does ... i don't like the idea of abortion, but i also don't like the idea of women being forced into do something they don't want to do ...

BamaGrits84
06-07-2011, 07:13 PM
shouldn't the man also be responsible for finding out about his women first? what if the man doesn't like the fact that the lady smokes or drinks during pregnancy, should he be able to ensure she doesn't do either? what about eating junk food? i know it ain't the same, but you are still controlling what a person does ... i don't like the idea of abortion, but i also don't like the idea of women being forced into do something they don't want to do ...


Yes he should think better than to sleep with a woman who he 1.) is not married to and 2.) doesn't know well enough to know if their morals are similar. So lets say both fail to know the other well enough to have sex. (Which I think is marriage.) Then new life comes into place. Mom and dad didn't decide before they bumped if they wanted kids and here is this baby now on the way. Mom says I don't want a baby. Dad says I do. The right to life for the child should win. I would say the same thing about a father who didn't want to be on the hook for child support for a child he doesn't want that now tries to force an abortion on the woman.

As for someone having something forced on them they don't like, I'm pretty sure babies don't like the pain (proven) and possible fear they feel when being aborted.

Chris F
06-07-2011, 07:22 PM
I read this and my take was that he was trying to bring focus to the point that fathers have no say in whether or not a mother decides to end her pregnancy.

He didn't use her name, so unless people knew the 2 of them personally, it wasn't releasing private info.

EXACTLY +1

adamt
06-07-2011, 07:22 PM
, but i also don't like the idea of women being forced into do something they don't want to do ...

really?!?!?!?:unsure-1::huh: so should a man have to pay child support if he doesn't want to?? should he have the option of killing the baby within a certain amount of time after it is born? we've all seen the signs that say something like " john doe pay your child support" isn't that the same thing? should child support be banned under the same principles that a man doesn't dictate what a woman and her child can do?

and to be fair, the billboard never mentioned a name, it just said that the mother of his child killed it, maybe he wasn't talking about the lady who sued him, and the lady admitted to it knowing she was the one that killed his baby.... and actually it doesn't say she got an abortion, it says she decided to kill her/his child, that doesn't necessarily mean a doctor did it

Chris F
06-07-2011, 07:23 PM
well, in the end, they shouldn't ... abortion is a tough topic to talk about, but in the end, a man shouldn't be able to make a women have a child ..

That is probably the most Asinine thing I heard in a long time. Before i say something I should not I will walk away. That is wrong RNC it is a life not a piece of property.

BamaGrits84
06-07-2011, 07:28 PM
That is probably the most Asinine thing I heard in a long time. Before i say something I should not I will walk away. That is wrong RNC it is a life not a piece of property.

+1

Spiritwalker
06-07-2011, 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke
well, in the end, they shouldn't ... abortion is a tough topic to talk about, but in the end, a man shouldn't be able to make a women have a child ..



---------------------

That is probably the most Asinine thing I heard in a long time. Before i say something I should not I will walk away. That is wrong RNC it is a life not a piece of property.

inally Posted by BamaGrits84
+1

So you are in favor of the father being able to dictate the way the woman lives while "knocked up"

what if she wanted an abortion and he didn't. What if she wanted to have the baby.. and he didn't..

Dethbob
06-07-2011, 07:51 PM
I imagine he would have had a lot more say in the matter if he had married her BEFORE he got her pregnant, but that isnít fashionable anymore, is it?

Spiritwalker
06-07-2011, 07:53 PM
I imagine he would have had a lot more say in the matter if he had married her BEFORE he got her pregnant, but that isnít fashionable anymore, is it?

Well Said!

Neezar
06-07-2011, 08:16 PM
really?!?!?!?:unsure-1::huh: so should a man have to pay child support if he doesn't want to?? should he have the option of killing the baby within a certain amount of time after it is born? we've all seen the signs that say something like " john doe pay your child support" isn't that the same thing? should child support be banned under the same principles that a man doesn't dictate what a woman and her child can do?

and to be fair, the billboard never mentioned a name, it just said that the mother of his child killed it, maybe he wasn't talking about the lady who sued him, and the lady admitted to it knowing she was the one that killed his baby.... and actually it doesn't say she got an abortion, it says she decided to kill her/his child, that doesn't necessarily mean a doctor did it

That is a good point about dad's support. He doesn't have a choice in that matter at all. And even the news broadcasts Deadbeat dads; pics and everything.

A woman has a choice. And she can make the dad pay/support the child until they are 18 yoa (216 months). She can even do it through (our tax payers money) court system if she chooses. I wonder why a dad can't insist that she give only 9 short months of her life for the same purpose.

BamaGrits84
06-07-2011, 08:27 PM
---------------------





So you are in favor of the father being able to dictate the way the woman lives while "knocked up"

what if she wanted an abortion and he didn't. What if she wanted to have the baby.. and he didn't..

As I said:

The right to life for the child should win. I would say the same thing about a father who didn't want to be on the hook for child support for a child he doesn't want that now tries to force an abortion on the woman.

I don't think he should be able to dictate the way she lives in full, but I do think ANY woman carrying a child should refrain from harmful behavior. Women who are on drugs can be jailed in some states to ensure the safety of an unborn child.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
06-07-2011, 08:50 PM
That is a good point about dad's support. He doesn't have a choice in that matter at all. And even the news broadcasts Deadbeat dads; pics and everything.

A woman has a choice. And she can make the dad pay/support the child until they are 18 yoa (216 months). She can even do it through (our tax payers money) court system if she chooses. I wonder why a dad can't insist that she give only 9 short months of her life for the same purpose.

Excellent point! By the way if her name wasn't mentioned or made available I don't see her compliant! That billboard seems tamer than the Westboro loons!

Primadawn
06-07-2011, 09:07 PM
I imagine he would have had a lot more say in the matter if he had married her BEFORE he got her pregnant, but that isnít fashionable anymore, is it?

Takes 2 to tango. And honestly, no, he wouldn't have any more say. A married woman can get an abortion just like a single one.

Primadawn
06-07-2011, 09:11 PM
That is a good point about dad's support. He doesn't have a choice in that matter at all. And even the news broadcasts Deadbeat dads; pics and everything.

A woman has a choice. And she can make the dad pay/support the child until they are 18 yoa (216 months). She can even do it through (our tax payers money) court system if she chooses. I wonder why a dad can't insist that she give only 9 short months of her life for the same purpose.

Exactly. If an unmarried mom can say to the father of her baby, "I don't care if you don't want a child. I do and I'm having it. And you are responsible for paying child support until the child is an adult", why can't an unmarried dad say the same thing?

County Mike
06-07-2011, 09:30 PM
I think a dad should be able to insist she birth the baby as long as he's willing to take full custody after birth. If she agreed to the unprotected sex, she agreed to the possibility of a baby being conceived. However, if the dad isn't willing to take full custody, then he loses his right to insist on anything.

County Mike
06-07-2011, 09:34 PM
Of course, a little common sense before conception goes a long way towards avoiding this whole situation.

http://shymagazine.com/shy/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/comp-condoms.jpg

flo
06-07-2011, 10:16 PM
Of course, a little common sense before conception goes a long way towards avoiding this whole situation.


I imagine he would have had a lot more say in the matter if he had married her BEFORE he got her pregnant, but that isn’t fashionable anymore, is it?
Both great points, County Mike & Dethbob.

Spiritwalker
06-07-2011, 10:50 PM
Takes 2 to tango. And honestly, no, he wouldn't have any more say. A married woman can get an abortion just like a single one.


Sure they can.... they just say that they aren't married....

It's similar to when I went and got fixed.. they asked me if I was married.. I said no.

Chris F
06-07-2011, 11:26 PM
---------------------





So you are in favor of the father being able to dictate the way the woman lives while "knocked up"

what if she wanted an abortion and he didn't. What if she wanted to have the baby.. and he didn't..

SW I am for the right of the baby to be born. I can careless about the stupidity of the parents.

Dethbob
06-08-2011, 01:48 PM
And honestly, no, he wouldn't have any more say. A married woman can get an abortion just like a single one.

Trust me, I've tried it both ways, and you definitely have more influence over a wife than an ex-girlfriend.

Takes 2 to tango.

Yes, but only one to control the zipper. How does that old saying go, 'he who controls the zipper...'?

Spiritwalker
06-08-2011, 03:05 PM
Trust me, I've tried it both ways, and you definitely have more influence over a wife than an ex-girlfriend.

Ohh yeah... you ever tell your ex-GF to go make a sammich!.. it just don't work as well...

Twinsmama
06-08-2011, 04:19 PM
Sure they can.... they just say that they aren't married....

It's similar to when I went and got fixed.. they asked me if I was married.. I said no.

okay i'm taking the bait....why would you say that? what would have been the difference in saying yes? i had my tubes tied when i had surgery a few years after having my kids. they ask married/single on the paperwork at the hospital. it would never have crossed my mind to lie about it.

it sure is a crazy world we live in. i can't understand how a woman would conceive or abort a baby without support (i don't mean $) from baby daddy. i would be mad if i was the dad too. i don't think putting it on a billboard was smart but i understand where he is coming from. can you imagine how much you would hate someone if they killed your kid?

Primadawn
06-08-2011, 04:55 PM
Sure they can.... they just say that they aren't married....

It's similar to when I went and got fixed.. they asked me if I was married.. I said no.

So what you're saying is...you're a great big liar liar pants on fire? :huh:

Spiritwalker
06-08-2011, 05:46 PM
So what you're saying is...you're a great big liar liar pants on fire? :huh:


no.. not exactly.. I was in the interview.. and a nurse asked me if I was married... I asked "Why?".. the response was to the effect of..."we won't do this without the wifes premission.".. well me being me.. "no I am not married".. as I held up my left hand.

but of course my wife came with me for the proceedure... no way I was going to be able to drive home.

Spiritwalker
06-08-2011, 05:52 PM
okay i'm taking the bait....why would you say that? what would have been the difference in saying yes? i had my tubes tied when i had surgery a few years after having my kids. they ask married/single on the paperwork at the hospital. it would never have crossed my mind to lie about it.

it sure is a crazy world we live in. i can't understand how a woman would conceive or abort a baby without support (i don't mean $) from baby daddy. i would be mad if i was the dad too. i don't think putting it on a billboard was smart but i understand where he is coming from. can you imagine how much you would hate someone if they killed your kid?



Not baiting anyone.. but just cause a person is married.. doesn't change much.. outside of of the two people being married... It shouldn't change anything.

My point is that ...

If a 20ish (some one obviously a legeal adult).. year old woman walks into a clinic and wants to get on the pill.. or have an abortition.. it shouldn't matter to the clinic if she is married or not married... If the woman declines to let the husband/boyfriend know that she is getting on the pill.. or having an abortition or just even having a consultation.. the answers that she is given, the assistance.. shouldn't change.

think about taxes, insurance rates, living commuities

rockdawg21
06-08-2011, 06:03 PM
That guy is my newest hero.

NateR
06-08-2011, 06:33 PM
I read this and my take was that he was trying to bring focus to the point that fathers have no say in whether or not a mother decides to end her pregnancy.

He didn't use her name, so unless people knew the 2 of them personally, it wasn't releasing private info.

I agree that a father should have equal say in whether a woman is allowed to have an abortion. However, if he was not planning to marry her, then what does he have to complain about? If he was not willing to commit to her, what would make her believe that he would be willing to commit to their child?

Of course, a little common sense before conception goes a long way towards avoiding this whole situation.

http://shymagazine.com/shy/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/comp-condoms.jpg

Condoms are only effective about 90% of the time. So even if you use a condom every time you have sex, then you still have a 1 in 10 chance of getting the girl pregnant. Even the woman's birth control methods aren't foolproof. So, if she is taking birth control AND you are using a condom, then the chances are reduced, but it is still possible to get her pregnant. No form of birth control is 100% effective, outside of abstinence.

BamaGrits84
06-08-2011, 06:45 PM
Not baiting anyone.. but just cause a person is married.. doesn't change much.. outside of of the two people being married... It shouldn't change anything.

My point is that ...

If a 20ish (some one obviously a legeal adult).. year old woman walks into a clinic and wants to get on the pill.. or have an abortition.. it shouldn't matter to the clinic if she is married or not married... If the woman declines to let the husband/boyfriend know that she is getting on the pill.. or having an abortition or just even having a consultation.. the answers that she is given, the assistance.. shouldn't change.

think about taxes, insurance rates, living commuities

IT SHOULD MATTER IF ABORTION IS INVOLVED! It isn't fair for one parent to decide to terminate a life that required both parents to create. Adotion requires the concent for both parents, why shouldn't abortion?

Spiritwalker
06-08-2011, 06:45 PM
No form of birth control is 100% effective, outside of abstinence.


Sorrrrryyy....... cannnn't resist!!!!!!!!





























http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6304/abstinencefullpic1.jpg

NateR
06-08-2011, 06:56 PM
IT SHOULD MATTER IF ABORTION IS INVOLVED! It isn't fair for one parent to decide to terminate a life that required both parents to create. Adotion requires the concent for both parents, why shouldn't abortion?

100% agreed. People seem to put the convenience and comfort of the mother ahead of the life of the child.

Sorrrrryyy....... cannnn't resist!!!!!!!!





























http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6304/abstinencefullpic1.jpg

Christ isn't returning as a child, so we can say that it is 100% effective.

Spiritwalker
06-08-2011, 06:56 PM
IT SHOULD MATTER IF ABORTION IS INVOLVED! It isn't fair for one parent to decide to terminate a life that required both parents to create. Adotion requires the concent for both parents, why shouldn't abortion?


So why isn't birth control?

Hey.. I am a guy..

Personally feel my input is almost null and void when it comes to the matters of conception.. But many men feel "victimized".. when the girl gets "knocked up"..

Just like if a woman decides to keep a baby.. and the guy doesn't want to.. it's "ultimately" her decision. The old.. "He talked me into it.." that doesn't really wash with me...

The guy has very few "rights" when it comes to a matter of pregnancy.. granted many don't want them anyway...


Her body.. her choice.. pretty much everyone else needs to shut up.. IMO... two people did it.. two people have to live with the choices..

But with it being her body.. her choice.. which many people belive to be true.. that doesn't mean that the woman shouldn't get information that "the happy couple" receive.

Spiritwalker
06-08-2011, 06:59 PM
100% agreed. People seem to put the convenience and comfort of the mother ahead of the life of the child.

Agreed..with the sentiment... but you want your daughter/son to not be informed of something.. just because they are alone?? Facts don't change if your single/married/gay/whatever....

Then we get into the discussion.. when does life begin?? that's another thread...

I say..

think before you have sex.. pretty damn simple.. but again.. another thread.



Christ isn't returning as a child, so we can say that it is 100% effective.


come on Nate.. If your scale is after Christ was born.. then it's 100%... if not.. then it's 99.9999999999 OO.. effective...

NateR
06-08-2011, 07:07 PM
So why isn't birth control?

Hey.. I am a guy..

Personally feel my input is almost null and void when it comes to the matters of conception.. But many men feel "victimized".. when the girl gets "knocked up"..

Just like if a woman decides to keep a baby.. and the guy doesn't want to.. it's "ultimately" her decision. The old.. "He talked me into it.." that doesn't really wash with me...

The guy has very few "rights" when it comes to a matter of pregnancy.. granted many don't want them anyway...


Her body.. her choice.. pretty much everyone else needs to shut up.. IMO... two people did it.. two people have to live with the choices..

But with it being her body.. her choice.. which many people belive to be true.. that doesn't mean that the woman shouldn't get information that "the happy couple" receive.

Birth control seeks to prevent the egg from being fertilized. Once the egg is fertilized however, then it's no longer birth control. Genetically, after fertilization of the egg, the child is a fully realized and completely unique human being. No new genetic information will be added to the child's life at any stage in development. This is easily understood by reading any college Biology textbook.

So, before fertilization, the sperm and eggs are simply haploid gametes with only 50% of the genetic information needed to create a human being.

After fertilization, the sperm has transferred it's genetic information to the egg and they become a diploid cell, meaning they have 100% of the genetic information required to create a human being.

That's the difference between birth control and abortion. Anything that prevents the haploid gametes from becoming a diploid cell is birth control. Anything that seeks to terminate the diploid cell (or cells) after conception is abortion.

BamaGrits84
06-08-2011, 07:07 PM
So why isn't birth control? Birth control is a choice made BEFORE the conception of a child. The new life created by 2 people is where the man's rights should come in.
Hey.. I am a guy..

Personally feel my input is almost null and void when it comes to the matters of conception.. But many men feel "victimized".. when the girl gets "knocked up".. If a man doesn't want to be a dad he can make the same call on birthcontrol on his own as a woman can. He can glove it.

Just like if a woman decides to keep a baby.. and the guy doesn't want to.. it's "ultimately" her decision. The old.. "He talked me into it.." that doesn't really wash with me... It shouldn't be a decision at all if you ask me. Who the hell thinks it is okay to sit around and decide if you want to MURDER you baby? This is a person we are talking about! Can you imagin is we were sitting around ehre talking about some who was tired of taking care of their 15 year old? You don't kill a child just because you don't want it, especially if the other parent does!
The guy has very few "rights" when it comes to a matter of pregnancy.. granted many don't want them anyway... And unfairly so. If 2 people are not willing to be responsible enough before hand to discuss birthcontrol they BOTH leave themselves open to the possibility of becoming a parent. So why post sex should the woman get to make all the calls about the outcome?
Her body.. her choice.. pretty much everyone else needs to shut up.. IMO... two people did it.. two people have to live with the choices.. Two people did it and only one gets a say so in what happens next? That's BS.

But with it being her body.. her choice.. which many people belive to be true.. that doesn't mean that the woman shouldn't get information that "the happy couple" receive.

a

NateR
06-08-2011, 07:10 PM
Then we get into the discussion.. when does life begin?? that's another thread...


Genetically, a single fertilized egg is indistinguishable from a fully grown adult human. All the genetic information that will make that person who they are is determined at conception.

Thus, speaking purely from a scientific standpoint, life begins at conception.

Spiritwalker
06-08-2011, 07:17 PM
Birth control is a choice made BEFORE the conception of a child. The new life created by 2 people is where the man's rights should come in.


But they don't. Not trying to be rude.. it's just the facts...


If a man doesn't want to be a dad he can make the same call on birthcontrol on his own as a woman can. He can glove it.

And when that fails?


It shouldn't be a decision at all if you ask me. Who the hell thinks it is okay to sit around and decide if you want to MURDER you baby?

Apparently a large portion of the worlds population... again not being rude.. but you seem to think that this "happens so very rarely"... and that isn't the case.

right/wrong.. it's going on.




This is a person we are talking about! Can you imagin is we were sitting around ehre talking about some who was tired of taking care of their 15 year old? You don't kill a child just because you don't want it, especially if the other parent does!

Many do. Casey Anthony right a bell? My whole point is that it's the woman choice.. and should be..

And unfairly so. If 2 people are not willing to be responsible enough before hand to discuss birthcontrol they BOTH leave themselves open to the possibility of becoming a parent. So why post sex should the woman get to make all the calls about the outcome?


Because it's the woman's body.. not the man's.

There are many different areas that this can go off to.. let's all regroup.

what's the concern.. that people are having abortions or that she (in the orginal post) may have had one without his consent? I am willing to discuss both.. but I just want to understand where the issue is.

Spiritwalker
06-08-2011, 07:21 PM
Genetically, a single fertilized egg is indistinguishable from a fully grown adult human. All the genetic information that will make that person who they are is determined at conception.

Thus, speaking purely from a scientific standpoint, life begins at conception.

ok. given that.. I can see the potential for the "indistinguishable" comment..

a single cell.. compared to a 4 month old inutero child.. I would say that is a big difference...

can you/would you agree that alot of people would not agree that life begins at conception? cause what we are looking at.. at that point.. is really little more than cell division..

BamaGrits84
06-08-2011, 07:39 PM
When it fails? Then you get over yourself and be a decent human being. You find a way to change your life and become a parent (even if only 1 person wants to) or allow a couple that wants a child to adopt your child. The RIGHT thing to do is not to murder your child because you would rather it not conflict with the life you want. That's a risk everyone that has sex takes. I was 17 when I got pregnant. You know what I did? I got a job, not an abortion!

You think I think abortions are a rarity? By no means and that is what sicknes me so much! 1 in every 3 new lives will be terminated. That "large portion of the worlds population" thinks murder is an accpetable form of birthcontrol. Do you know that MOST abortions occur because no birthcontrol at all was used?

If Casey Anthony killed that baby when she was 3 moth pregnant no one would even bat an eye.

Once conception has taken place it isn't just the woman's body. It is a new body, a new life, that is composed by 2 people, not 1.

I'm always prolife, but when 1 parent is willing to raise a child why murder it? I guess I hate that women can murder their babies as a standard form of bithcontrol and that there is nothing to stop them from doing it when the man, the other people involved in the life of that baby, has zero way to stop it.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
06-08-2011, 07:45 PM
Abortion is what modern femanazi's are all about! If you ain't willing to pay the fiddler don't dance! It's that simple. To kill a human life for the sake of convenience if Evil!

Dethbob
06-08-2011, 07:55 PM
cause what we are looking at.. at that point.. is really little more than cell division..

Whose cells? I mean, these are presumably human cells that are dividing, what human do they belong to? Their DNA is different from the father or mother, what other human being are these cells a part of?

Spiritwalker
06-08-2011, 07:57 PM
When it fails? Then you get over yourself and be a decent human being. You find a way to change your life and become a parent (even if only 1 person wants to) or allow a couple that wants a child to adopt your child. The RIGHT thing to do is not to murder your child because you would rather it not conflict with the life you want. That's a risk everyone that has sex takes. I was 17 when I got pregnant. You know what I did? I got a job, not an abortion!

Great. Glad you did it. But not everyone feels like you do. That's not my point.. unless you want to go down that road..

My point is that it is a womans choice.. and the guy should have no real say so in the matter..

You think I think abortions are a rarity? By no means and that is what sicknes me so much! 1 in every 3 new lives will be terminated. That "large portion of the worlds population" thinks murder is an accpetable form of birthcontrol. Do you know that MOST abortions occur because no birthcontrol at all was used?

You come across as that yes.. to me at least...

I know more about this subject than you may think..

If Casey Anthony killed that baby when she was 3 moth pregnant no one would even bat an eye.

Nope. right or wrong.. nope.

Once conception has taken place it isn't just the woman's body. It is a new body, a new life, that is composed by 2 people, not 1.

after a certain point I would agree to that.. no problem.

I'm always prolife, but when 1 parent is willing to raise a child why murder it? I guess I hate that women can murder their babies as a standard form of bithcontrol and that there is nothing to stop them from doing it when the man, the other people involved in the life of that baby, has zero way to stop it.

So you belive that a woman who gets pregnant has no choice but carry the baby to term? Any flexibility to that?

Tyburn
06-08-2011, 09:01 PM
its a little too late to let your partner know how you feel about the baby, AFTER the abortion :blink:

Tyburn
06-08-2011, 09:12 PM
ok. given that.. I can see the potential for the "indistinguishable" comment..

a single cell.. compared to a 4 month old inutero child.. I would say that is a big difference...

can you/would you agree that alot of people would not agree that life begins at conception? cause what we are looking at.. at that point.. is really little more than cell division..

There is no difference. Except that after four months there are millions of cells with the same Genetic code. IF you see a difference, thats an emotional attachment...its not scientific....it may "look" more human, it may "be" more developed....but Genetically speaking, its simply divided and multiplied a few times. The Genetic code wont change once the half from the egg are fertilized by the other half needed to begin multiplication.

What do you think Scientifically life is? You say "little more then cell division" around fifty percent of created life exists as single celled organisms...so what is your point? your point is inferiority Vs Superiority....based on nothing but the amount of cells an organism has...BIZZARE!

if that holds true...then I am worth more then you, for my size dictates I have many more cells then you, thus, further advanced, thus more important and has a better right to live. :laugh:

You see how silly it is when you add emotive things into a Science lesson. It is irrefutable that "life" for a Human begins when the first cell divides. That is not negotiable...its a scientific fact. IF ANYONE desputes that, they are WRONG. The second it divides, its alive....infact...really...its living as a single cell before that...but we wont confuse the matter by saying that as both the sperm and egg are living cells, they are alive as soon as they come into being...long, long before fertilization :laugh:

ufcfan2
06-09-2011, 12:17 AM
shouldn't the man also be responsible for finding out about his women first? what if the man doesn't like the fact that the lady smokes or drinks during pregnancy, should he be able to ensure she doesn't do either? what about eating junk food? i know it ain't the same, but you are still controlling what a person does ... i don't like the idea of abortion, but i also don't like the idea of women being forced into do something they don't want to do ...

Agree with the bold,who are we to tell a person how to live and force our morals on them(been some senators being very evil towards women in past week or so in their remarks). I only agree with abortion on RAPE/INCEST(and select few other situations) as to me Rape is probably the most horrific act you could do to a women. PPL can spew scientific facts on conception etc, doesn't make the choice or decision any different or easier. Last decision should be the womens whether ppl agree or not with it. I think the thread is getting off the real topic.
Now back to topic, I personally think its harassment and I think the guy is over doing it. I also, believe he didnt' really know if she had an abortion or miscarriage from one articale I read. If he continues to this act is it not considered harrassment no matter if its 'freedom of speech' I mean theres only so much name slandering a person should take. Just think the guy needs to get on with his life and move on.
Anywho, noone here would like it if their spouse,or whoever smears their name publicly for any reason would you??

Mark
06-09-2011, 02:40 AM
Anywho, noone here would like it if their spouse,or whoever smears their name publicly for any reason would you??


I didnt see her name on the billboard. If she did get a abortion than I think it is free speach.

rearnakedchoke
06-09-2011, 01:11 PM
I didnt see her name on the billboard. If she did get a abortion than I think it is free speach.

yeah, it's not like the billboard went up in NYC or LA ... i am pretty sure it was a smaller city .. it would be like a billboard going up in Hillsboro, i am sure most people would put two and two together pretty fast ... so saying he didn't put her name doesn't hold water with me cuz he knew people would find out it was her ...

flo
06-09-2011, 05:34 PM
I guess I don't really care if people recognize who it is. Shaming can be a good thing, ditto shunning - it's too bad those things have fallen into disuse.

rearnakedchoke
06-09-2011, 06:06 PM
I guess I don't really care if people recognize who it is. Shaming can be a good thing, ditto shunning - it's too bad those things have fallen into disuse.

unless she can prove she had a miscarriage .. then he would be slandering her ... i think ...

BamaGrits84
06-09-2011, 06:25 PM
I didnt see her name on the billboard. If she did get a abortion than I think it is free speach.

Legally you are correct. If he had used her name or likeness it could be considered, under some state's domestic violence laws, harassment, and she would be able to get a order of protection which would force the board down. And of course if it wasn't true and he used her name or likeness that would be slander and she could have it removed and sue him for damages. If she sat back and kept her mouth shut I would guess only their family and friends would know it was her. Now the whole internet knows. Seems like this woman needs to figure out to make better choices in life.

BamaGrits84
06-09-2011, 06:26 PM
unless she can prove she had a miscarriage .. then he would be slandering her ... i think ...

Yeah but given that her lawyer's response has not included slander I would guess she did infact have an abortion, plus her name wasn't used so slander is out.

BamaGrits84
06-09-2011, 06:40 PM
Agree with the bold,who are we to tell a person how to live and force our morals on them(been some senators being very evil towards women in past week or so in their remarks). I only agree with abortion on RAPE/INCEST(and select few other situations) as to me Rape is probably the most horrific act you could do to a women. PPL can spew scientific facts on conception etc, doesn't make the choice or decision any different or easier. Last decision should be the womens whether ppl agree or not with it. I think the thread is getting off the real topic.
Now back to topic, I personally think its harassment and I think the guy is over doing it. I also, believe he didnt' really know if she had an abortion or miscarriage from one articale I read. If he continues to this act is it not considered harrassment no matter if its 'freedom of speech' I mean theres only so much name slandering a person should take. Just think the guy needs to get on with his life and move on.
Anywho, noone here would like it if their spouse,or whoever smears their name publicly for any reason would you??

Several years ago I did a paper and in my research I found several studies that state less than 1% of abortions are from rape, incest, or over medical reasons.

As for "who are we to tell person how to live", I believe Christians have a charge from God to stand up for our biblical based principals.

flo
06-09-2011, 06:58 PM
unless she can prove she had a miscarriage .. then he would be slandering her ... i think ...

True that, rnc.

Twinsmama
06-09-2011, 07:05 PM
I bet she's one of those crazy bizotches that you dump and then they say they were pregnant. either aborted or miscarried. no way for a man to really know the truth either way. i'm glad he brought it to everyones attention. maybe it will make people think of the things that could happen

Primadawn
06-09-2011, 07:31 PM
If he didn't use her name or likeness, she outed herself. I'm just disgusted that anyone would think what he did was wrong.

So it's fine for her to kill their baby, but it's wrong for him to let people know he's upset about it?:blink:

NateR
06-10-2011, 05:00 AM
ok. given that.. I can see the potential for the "indistinguishable" comment..

a single cell.. compared to a 4 month old inutero child.. I would say that is a big difference...

can you/would you agree that alot of people would not agree that life begins at conception? cause what we are looking at.. at that point.. is really little more than cell division..

Well, facts are rarely a matter of public opinion. It doesn't matter what people believe, from a purely genetic standpoint, life begins at conception.

When does the soul inhabit the body? We don't know. However, the Bible tells us that life is in the blood and the embryonic circulatory system doesn't begin to form until day 17 after conception. So an argument could be made that the embryo is not fully human until the beginning of its third week of development. However, the point still stands that the person's DNA is complete from the moment of conception. So, genetically, they are still human even if they haven't formed blood yet.

KENTUCKYREDBONE
06-10-2011, 11:29 AM
Society is always telling people how to live! That's why theft and murder are supposed to be against the law!

Tyburn
06-10-2011, 11:43 AM
the Bible tells us that life is in the blood

:laugh: I dont think it means that in the way your implying :laugh:

The spirit isnt carried around in Blood...it cant be, coz when you die everything including your blood rots away

I think really its saying that the Blood carries the life force...and what its really talking about is the blood carrying the oxygen to the cells...so in essence, the life is really in the air...even as an unborn child...the blood is carrying oxygen syphoned off from the Mothers respiratory tract

So I wouldnt be bending that context, to try and assert the claim that the spirit doesnt enter the body until the blood is in circulation. Since we do not know when the spirit enters the body, but we do know that the spirit is not dependant on the body, we HAVE to assume that the Spirit is probably created BEFORE Fertilization, and we HAVE to assume as soon as we have life, we also have Spirit...that way we can rule out killing something that may or may not have a Spirit

Incidently, the Spirit is not trapped in the body of a living person...and yet I bet you if someone where to kill a man in the middle of an astral projection, he would be charged with Murder...you cant claim he wasnt alive because he wasnt exactly home at the time :laugh::laugh:

adamt
06-10-2011, 03:11 PM
Yeah but given that her lawyer's response has not included slander I would guess she did infact have an abortion, plus her name wasn't used so slander is out.

yeah, that's if she was pregnant to begin with,

i say she should have to prove she was pregnant and had a miscarriage or she is libeling him.

i bet she faked pregnancy either after they broke up or an attempt to keep from breaking up then they broke up and she told him she had an abortion to upset him...... now she says she miscarried versus saying she lied about being pregnant.... i hope he kept all his text messages....

NateR
06-10-2011, 05:31 PM
:laugh: I dont think it means that in the way your implying :laugh:

The spirit isnt carried around in Blood...it cant be, coz when you die everything including your blood rots away

I think really its saying that the Blood carries the life force...and what its really talking about is the blood carrying the oxygen to the cells...so in essence, the life is really in the air...even as an unborn child...the blood is carrying oxygen syphoned off from the Mothers respiratory tract

So I wouldnt be bending that context, to try and assert the claim that the spirit doesnt enter the body until the blood is in circulation. Since we do not know when the spirit enters the body, but we do know that the spirit is not dependant on the body, we HAVE to assume that the Spirit is probably created BEFORE Fertilization, and we HAVE to assume as soon as we have life, we also have Spirit...that way we can rule out killing something that may or may not have a Spirit

Incidently, the Spirit is not trapped in the body of a living person...and yet I bet you if someone where to kill a man in the middle of an astral projection, he would be charged with Murder...you cant claim he wasnt alive because he wasnt exactly home at the time :laugh::laugh:

Just covering all the bases of my argument. That's not what I believe, but I have heard pro-abortionists use that to justify abortion within the first three weeks of the pregnancy. Jeremiah 1:5 makes it pretty clear that GOD has a plan for our lives even before we are conceived. So to end a pregnancy at any point after conception is a violation of GOD's Law.

Spiritwalker
06-10-2011, 05:59 PM
Just covering all the bases of my argument. That's not what I believe, but I have heard pro-abortionists use that to justify abortion within the first three weeks of the pregnancy. Jeremiah 1:5 makes it pretty clear that GOD has a plan for our lives even before we are conceived. So to end a pregnancy at any point after conception is a violation of GOD's Law.

Nate... just to be clear.. coming from your point of view.. I agree with you.. I just don't happen to agree with you..

Twinsmama
06-10-2011, 06:00 PM
yeah, that's if she was pregnant to begin with,

i say she should have to prove she was pregnant and had a miscarriage or she is libeling him.

i bet she faked pregnancy either after they broke up or an attempt to keep from breaking up then they broke up and she told him she had an abortion to upset him...... now she says she miscarried versus saying she lied about being pregnant.... i hope he kept all his text messages....

:laugh:I agree so much I said it a few posts ago. I know a few girls like that. Some girls are evil and say anything to hurt men. She probably threw this out there in desperation after my car won't start, i have a flat tire, etc. didn't work:laugh: if she really had an abortion and wanted rid of the kid and didn't want to hurt the man she never would have told him. how did she think he was going to react....um by the way i killed your unborn baby.

adamt
06-10-2011, 10:29 PM
:laugh:I agree so much I said it a few posts ago. I know a few girls like that. Some girls are evil and say anything to hurt men. She probably threw this out there in desperation after my car won't start, i have a flat tire, etc. didn't work:laugh: if she really had an abortion and wanted rid of the kid and didn't want to hurt the man she never would have told him. how did she think he was going to react....um by the way i killed your unborn baby.

sorry, i really should thoroughly read all the posts :ashamed: