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MattHughesRocks
03-11-2009, 07:05 AM
PENN FILES FORMAL COMPLAINT WITH NSAC
Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - by Tom Hamliin - MMAWeekly.com


After a month of telegraphing their intentions, B.J. Penn and his representatives have filed a formal complaint against Georges St. Pierre.

The 20-page document, filed on Monday with the Nevada State Athletic Commission, requests sanctions against St. Pierre, his cornermen, and other unknown licensees of the commission, and requests a formal hearing into the matter.

The complaint, drafted by Penn legal representative Raffi A. Nahabedian, of the Rosenfeld law firm in Las Vegas, Nevada, alleges that St. Pierre and his camp knowingly used illegal greasing agents to affect the outcome of his fight with Penn at UFC 94 on Jan. 31 in Las Vegas.

Penn succumbed to St. Pierre’s furious ground and pound attack 20 minutes after their encounter began, with Penn’s cornermen throwing in the towel between the fourth and fifth rounds.

Controversy erupted inside the cage between the first and second rounds when the NSAC was alerted to the inappropriate use of Vaseline by St. Pierre cornerman Phil Nurse. Officials wiped the welterweight champion down with a towel between rounds and monitored the corner closely until the bout’s halt.

The document cites unnamed mixed martial arts fighters who complained about St. Pierre’s use of greasing agents as evidence of his culpability.

“It is Penn’s belief… that the aforementioned strategies were intentional and were orchestrated by Pierre as a means to unfairly and illegally defeat Penn in a regulated and sanctioned championship bout that prohibits the aforementioned conduct and that such calculated actions by Pierre were implemented as a means to prevent Penn from defending himself in a manner consistent with that contemplated in unarmed combat due to the highly and unnaturally slippery nature of Pierre during the bout,” the document states.

Penn and his representative also allege that St. Pierre “ingested a substance that would cause his body to become highly and unnaturally slippery during the bout.”

Nurse, Jackson trainer Greg Jackson, and the unknown parties are named as co-conspirators to St. Pierre’s use of the agents.

The complaint requests numerous punishments for St. Pierre’s camp. It asks the commission to fine St. Pierre, Jackson, Nurse, and the unnamed parties up to $250,000; suspend St. Pierre’s license as well as the licenses of Jackson, Nurse, and the unnamed parties; change the result of the bout to a “no contest;” and require Pierre undergo a pre-bout shower to make sure no substances exist on his body.

St. Pierre’s manager, Sherri Spencer, had not read the document and would not comment to MMAWeekly.com until she had reviewed it.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=8357&zoneid=2

Bonnie
03-11-2009, 07:19 AM
Interesting. I wonder if it will really have an impact as for what he's wanting them to do to Georges and his camp, etc...

This is the first I've heard of any "substance" being taken. :huh:

What a mess, Ollie.... :scared0011:

F34R
03-11-2009, 07:21 AM
Now there's a turn of events lol. I wasn't there so I can't say I agree or disagree with the complaint.

atomdanger
03-11-2009, 07:26 AM
Good, thank you BJ Penn.

I would hate to hear all that drama about the greasing and have no formal complaint about it.

I feel like if somebody truly has a problem and feels they were wronged somehow,
that they should file a formal complaint, not just whine about it online,
or in interviews, etc...

atomdanger
03-11-2009, 07:28 AM
Interesting. I wonder if it will really have an impact as for what he's wanting them to do to Georges and his camp, etc...

This is the first I've heard of any "substance" being taken. :huh:

What a mess, Ollie.... :scared0011:

"Ingestion is the consumption of a substance by an organism."

*shrug*

Maybe just the way of explaining his skin getting greased?

que
03-11-2009, 07:37 AM
the best thing that can come out of this: new rules will be implemented to help prevent greasing. in fact new rules already HAVE been implemented because of this (cornermen can no longer bring grease into octagon between rounds)

the worst thing that can come out of this: bj penn will look like a crybaby.

well he already looks like a crybaby, so i guess in the long term this will be a good thing for the sport.

Bonnie
03-11-2009, 07:49 AM
"Ingestion is the consumption of a substance by an organism."

*shrug*

Maybe just the way of explaining his skin getting greased?

You mean it wasn't two separate things: the greasing by Nurse and him also taking something? The reason I thought it was two is because of their wording, "Penn and his representative also allege...":unsure-1:

County Mike
03-11-2009, 12:51 PM
Sounds like they're also claiming he swallowed something that increase the greasiness of his sweat. I'm not sure what type of food/pill would do that, but it's pretty clear that's what they allege.

F34R
03-11-2009, 01:12 PM
LMFAO. Everything I looked for regarding the ingestion of a pill that would lubricate the skin had to do with acne or birth control lmfao.

County Mike
03-11-2009, 02:03 PM
Well, if it helps with acne that could also help to hide evidence of steroid use.

rearnakedchoke
03-11-2009, 02:12 PM
LOL .. Penn is such a whining little baby ... Good for him, he is now trying to prove something that is nearly impossible, that GSP ingested something .. LOL ... really, this guy is bad for the sport ....

billythekid2000
03-11-2009, 02:50 PM
It can't be proved that GSP ingested anything to make him slippery. I'm surprised that his lawyers included that in the statement. That's just speculation, hearsay, or just making **** up. If GSP didn't ingest any banned substances, then it's not even illegal, althought it's not proffesional, either. I think BJ is really going after a NC. BJ aint gonna quit until he gets his NC.

Miss Foxy
03-11-2009, 02:51 PM
Good, thank you BJ Penn.

I would hate to hear all that drama about the greasing and have no formal complaint about it.

I feel like if somebody truly has a problem and feels they were wronged somehow,
that they should file a formal complaint, not just whine about it online,
or in interviews, etc... Exactly.. I am glad he decided to do something about it and I can't wait to see what the outcome is!! :blink:

Neezar
03-11-2009, 02:56 PM
The outcome will be more acne. :laugh:

GnP
03-11-2009, 03:15 PM
Dear lord BJ you had your ass handed to you by a better fighter, deal with it and move on.

How the frick do you expect to prove he swallowed something a few months ago? This is typical BJ tactics of through enough **** and some is bound to stick thus avoiding the fact you are an inferior fighter

Crisco
03-11-2009, 03:42 PM
I wonder if BJ thinks the fight would have gone differently if there wasn't a little vaseline on GSP's shoulder?.

I'm not saying it was not a cheating move but it's no different then a low blow in my opinion.

I would just like to know if he thinks he could have won because at that point I will say this is all a big show for him to try and save face. If he says no GSP was owning the **** out of my face all over the place I just think he should be called out for cheating then I will take him seriously.

Hughes_GOAT
03-11-2009, 05:44 PM
good on BJ. i doubt they expect to prove he ingested something, it's just more of a way to make GSP look bad. he already greased, so throw in something else on top of. the greasing is already proven.

atomdanger
03-11-2009, 05:55 PM
You mean it wasn't two separate things: the greasing by Nurse and him also taking something? The reason I thought it was two is because of their wording, "Penn and his representative also allege...":unsure-1:


Ooo good point

atomdanger
03-11-2009, 05:57 PM
I can't believe so many people are giving BJ crap for filing a complaint.

What would you do if you felt like somebody broke the rules (and you had video proof)?

Whine about it on your website? Or say nothing?

BJ in my opinion is being a man and sticking up for what he believes is right,
having somebody cheat and win, and being too scared to say anything would be being a b*tch IMO,
Penn really feels like GSP cheated/broke the rules, so he is doing something about it.

Crisco
03-11-2009, 06:12 PM
I can't believe so many people are giving BJ crap for filing a complaint.

What would you do if you felt like somebody broke the rules (and you had video proof)?

Whine about it on your website? Or say nothing?

BJ in my opinion is being a man and sticking up for what he believes is right,
having somebody cheat and win, and being too scared to say anything would be being a b*tch IMO,
Penn really feels like GSP cheated/broke the rules, so he is doing something about it.

I give him credit but I want to see him admit he was beat regardless of what went on then I can respect him for what he is doing. That is being a man.

Calling someone out on what they did wrong but having the balls to admit that you still would have lost that fight that day. Then it shows your out for justice instead of being a whine baby

rearnakedchoke
03-11-2009, 06:20 PM
I can't believe so many people are giving BJ crap for filing a complaint.

What would you do if you felt like somebody broke the rules (and you had video proof)?

Whine about it on your website? Or say nothing?

BJ in my opinion is being a man and sticking up for what he believes is right,
having somebody cheat and win, and being too scared to say anything would be being a b*tch IMO,
Penn really feels like GSP cheated/broke the rules, so he is doing something about it.

yup, then he should stick to the facts, he is the one acting like a little bit#% by making accusations that he cannot back-up ... the proof is that vaseline was applied after round one, applied again after round two, wiped off and then gsp was wiped down again after the third ... the facts are also that Penn got his ass whooped and has always come out with excuses for his losses ... he is never as good as his nuthugging fans thought ... by him saying he "alleges" gsp ingested something to make himself greasy is ridiculous and he could never prove that ... if he never complained before, that is one thing, but he always does it ...

maxumII
03-11-2009, 06:32 PM
Would he have filed a complaint if he had won?

Miss Foxy
03-11-2009, 06:58 PM
yup, then he should stick to the facts, he is the one acting like a little bit#% by making accusations that he cannot back-up ... the proof is that vaseline was applied after round one, applied again after round two, wiped off and then gsp was wiped down again after the third ... the facts are also that Penn got his ass whooped and has always come out with excuses for his losses ... he is never as good as his nuthugging fans thought ... by him saying he "alleges" gsp ingested something to make himself greasy is ridiculous and he could never prove that ... if he never complained before, that is one thing, but he always does it ...
I understand where you are coming from about BJ whining lately trust me I do I recently responded to a thread regarding him, however I would like to say I am glad he brought attention to this matter. This matter of greasing in the sport is like MLB players with steroids. It just can't be tolerated. I am behind the accusations since other creditable fighters have expressed that GSP has felt greasy. I agree that BJ should admit he got served and it would not have changed the outcome, but in the same breath I am glad he is taking a stand.

Maldonado136
03-11-2009, 07:58 PM
pre-fight shower?? really???:huh:

rearnakedchoke
03-11-2009, 08:04 PM
I understand where you are coming from about BJ whining lately trust me I do I recently responded to a thread regarding him, however I would like to say I am glad he brought attention to this matter. This matter of greasing in the sport is like MLB players with steroids. It just can't be tolerated. I am behind the accusations since other creditable fighters have expressed that GSP has felt greasy. I agree that BJ should admit he got served and it would not have changed the outcome, but in the same breath I am glad he is taking a stand.

You got it ... i think something is being done, although i am a fan of gsp, if he were to get suspended or fined, it would send a strong message, but when penn starts making accusations that cannot be proved, imo, that is attempting to slander a fighter ... i am a fan of the sport more than any fighter, so i would like it to be kept clean, but to me, if this were coming from someone else, i wouldn't mind .. BJ just whines like a baby until he gets what he wants, he saw his "aura" diminished and his confidence smashed back in Jan ... and now he is trying to get some of it back, but it will probably back fire on his a$$

Crisco
03-11-2009, 08:09 PM
the reason why GSP is so slippery is because he has ZERO body hair

:tongue0011:

billythekid2000
03-11-2009, 08:23 PM
So BJ wants all fighters to have a pre-fight shower or only GSP?

Maybe what he really wants is for fighters to shower and scrub each other down, dry each other off, then test for slipperyness. That would increase the length of the PPV show and make for interesting staredowns.

BJ has gone whacko.

atomdanger
03-11-2009, 08:31 PM
yup, then he should stick to the facts, he is the one acting like a little bit#% by making accusations that he cannot back-up ... the proof is that vaseline was applied after round one, applied again after round two, wiped off and then gsp was wiped down again after the third ... the facts are also that Penn got his ass whooped and has always come out with excuses for his losses ... he is never as good as his nuthugging fans thought ... by him saying he "alleges" gsp ingested something to make himself greasy is ridiculous and he could never prove that ... if he never complained before, that is one thing, but he always does it ...


Do me a huge favor before you talk about this subject again.

1. Wipe vasoline on your back
2. Try to rub it off with a towel

atomdanger
03-11-2009, 08:32 PM
Would he have filed a complaint if he had won?

He should have if he had.

atomdanger
03-11-2009, 08:33 PM
I wonder if BJ thinks the fight would have gone differently if there wasn't a little vaseline on GSP's shoulder?.

I'm not saying it was not a cheating move but it's no different then a low blow in my opinion.

I would just like to know if he thinks he could have won because at that point I will say this is all a big show for him to try and save face. If he says no GSP was owning the **** out of my face all over the place I just think he should be called out for cheating then I will take him seriously.

It doesn't MATTER if the fight would have gone differently.

By that logic, if a loser gets low kicked, or the winner is fence grabbing and using steroids we might as well not punish them if we are all pretty sure the fight would have still ended the same, rules are rules.

Just because you are going to win a fight, doesn't mean you can break them,
that logic makes NO SENSE

By your thinking, they should not change a fight when a guy uses steroids,
because... maybe they didn't effect the outcome? Maybe the guy would have won anyway,
so don't change it to a NC. There is no way to tell if steroid use truly changes the outcome of the fight, so EFF IT

County Mike
03-11-2009, 08:40 PM
the reason why GSP is so slippery is because he has ZERO body hair

:tongue0011:

That does help. I need to use more grease on my ears. Getting wicked cauliflower again.

Bonnie
03-11-2009, 08:45 PM
I give him credit but I want to see him admit he was beat regardless of what went on then I can respect him for what he is doing. That is being a man.

Calling someone out on what they did wrong but having the balls to admit that you still would have lost that fight that day. Then it shows your out for justice instead of being a whine baby

I agree with "atom" and Goat. When all this started and other fighters came out and said they felt he was "slippery" (not sweat) when they fought him, they were given a lot of flak for NOT filing a formal complaint at the time. Matt explained his particular experience and what he said to his camp, friends and family after his fight(s) with GSP. When BJ first started complaining about what happened, people were like, then why don't you file a "formal" complaint. Now he has, which is his right to do. He's going by the book.

BJ has given people enough rope to hang him on the "whining" over the years (he's earned that), but don't fault him for following the rules in pursuing formal/legal action. That is the "smart" thing for him to do--get everything out there and let the people who govern this stuff do their investigation and present their findings and determine whatever (if any) action will be taken against GSP and his camp and anyone else.

Like I said BJ has earned his rep for whining and people's disrespect because of it, BUT people need to also put the responsibility for this particular situation and all the fallout where it belongs and that is with GSP and his camp/cornermen. So how can BJ come out and "admit" he was beat "regardless" of what went on. What fighter (let alone BJ) would say that in a situation like this (with video proof)...come on now.

GSP and his camp are the ones who handed BJ "that" rope (whether anyone thinks he would have lost anyway is beside the point). Oh, and to the person who said, "would he have filed a complaint if he had won?" My answer would be, he should have.

atomdanger
03-11-2009, 08:46 PM
I agree with "atom" and Goat. When all this started and other fighters came out and said they felt he was "slippery" (not sweat) when they fought him, they were given a lot of flak for NOT filing a formal complaint at the time. Matt explained his particular experience and what he said to his camp, friends and family after his fight(s) with GSP. When BJ first started complaining about what happened, people were like, then why don't you file a "formal" complaint. Now he has, which is his right to do. He's going by the book.

BJ has given people enough rope to hang him on the "whining" over the years (he's earned that), but don't fault him for following the rules in pursuing formal/legal action. That is the "smart" thing for him to do--get everything out there and let the people who govern this stuff do their investigation and present their findings and determine whatever (if any) action will be taken against GSP and his camp and anyone else.

Like I said BJ has earned his rep for whining and people's disrespect because of it, BUT people need to also put the responsibility for this particular situation and all the fallout where it belongs and that is with GSP and his camp/cornermen. So how can BJ come out and "admit" he was beat "regardless" of what went on. What fighter (let alone BJ) would say that in a situation like this (with video proof)...come on now.

GSP and his camp are the ones who handed BJ "that" rope (whether anyone thinks he would have lost anyway is beside the point). Oh, and to the person who said, "would he have filed a complaint if he had won?" My answer would be, he should have.


well said, very well said

bradwright
03-11-2009, 08:48 PM
just so we all understand what rule GSP is being accused of breaking
could somebody please put up the link to the rule that states greasing is illegal in MMA,

i'll check back later when its up,,because i'm really interested in reading it.

atomdanger
03-11-2009, 08:53 PM
just so we all understand what rule GSP is being accused of breaking
could somebody please put up the link to the rule that states greasing is illegal in MMA,

i'll check back later when its up,,because i'm really interested in reading it.

Ill look, but I am pretty positive the state athletic commission only allows vasoline to be applied to the face.

County Mike
03-11-2009, 08:54 PM
NAC 467.598: The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant. The referees or the commission’s representative in charge shall cause any excessive grease of foreign substance to be removed.

Obviously, not completely followed since they always grease up a fighter's face before fights and between rounds. Unless you go by the word "excessive". In that case, how much grease on the body is excessive?

atomdanger
03-11-2009, 08:57 PM
NAC 467.598: The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant. The referees or the commission’s representative in charge shall cause any excessive grease of foreign substance to be removed.

Obviously, not completely followed since they always grease up a fighter's face before fights and between rounds. Unless you go by the word "excessive". In that case, how much grease on the body is excessive?


Yeah, pretty clearly (from the sounds of it)
more of a boxing rule that needs to be clearly defined for mixed martial arts

lc87
03-11-2009, 09:13 PM
I think when they say excessive from what I've watched if there are globs or it looks too thick I've seen refs wipe it off. I think its a judgement call just like tkos.

And since the commission came in and and wiped him down its clear that they found it as excessive.

StizzoFoShizzo
03-11-2009, 09:17 PM
If bj was doing submitting this "formal complaint" and stating that all fighters(not just gsp) shower before fights to prevent greasing, then I'd give the benifit of the doubt to him. This whole complaint is basically a smear campaign against one fighter from one fight. Now if he woulda said something about doing this for the sport and not sounding like a cry baby then we'd have something here. If those are the actual athletic commision rules on greasing(as posted above) then I can't see them being able to punish gsp. That wording of the rule needs to be changed. I really wanted to see gsp get ktfo by alvez. Now bj is trying to rob me of this. Sorry if this makes no sense, I'm typing this from my iPhone during class.

StizzoFoShizzo
03-11-2009, 09:19 PM
And shouldn't a formal complaint be made for the better of the sport? Not to make excuses for a loss

bradwright
03-11-2009, 09:25 PM
NAC 467.598: The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant. The referees or the commission’s representative in charge shall cause any excessive grease of foreign substance to be removed.

Obviously, not completely followed since they always grease up a fighter's face before fights and between rounds. Unless you go by the word "excessive". In that case, how much grease on the body is excessive?
thank you for the post,
i looked for a very long time and that was the only thing i could find also,

and the way i read it,there seems to be no rule in place against greasing
the body,your just not allowed to excessively grease your body,

so like somebody said before,what constitutes excessive greasing?

County Mike
03-11-2009, 09:35 PM
It seems that technically there isn't a rule forbidding ANY grease on the body. In that case, GSP didn't break any rules. The best BJ can hope for is a rule amendment to prevent it in the future.

Crisco
03-11-2009, 09:41 PM
It seems that technically there isn't a rule forbidding ANY grease on the body. In that case, GSP didn't break any rules. The best BJ can hope for is a rule amendment to prevent it in the future.

Yes according to the rules everything was does according to regs.

They will need to reword the rules for the future though as they are too vague.

rearnakedchoke
03-11-2009, 09:42 PM
It seems that technically there isn't a rule forbidding ANY grease on the body. In that case, GSP didn't break any rules. The best BJ can hope for is a rule amendment to prevent it in the future.


that is exactly it .. the grease was applied imo by accident and was wiped off ... if you look at the term excessive, nurse has little on his hands in the first place, wipes pierres face then put his hands on the back and chest .. you could argue that even bj had some grease on him when in the first gsp was going for the TD, his face was near BJ's chest, what was on his face could have been transfered ... imo, they shouldn't be allowed any grease before the fight .. and are they checked during the stare down? if you watch when a fighter enters, he goes to his corner, his cornermen are outside the cage, but a lot of the time they reach over and massaged the shoulders .. what is stopping someone from applying it then .. that is unless they are getting checked by the ref at the staredown

atomdanger
03-11-2009, 09:52 PM
It seems that technically there isn't a rule forbidding ANY grease on the body. In that case, GSP didn't break any rules. The best BJ can hope for is a rule amendment to prevent it in the future.

I wouldn't say thats the best he can hope for,
the head of the state commission said he was disgusted, etc...

Crisco
03-11-2009, 10:00 PM
I wouldn't say thats the best he can hope for,
the head of the state commission said he was disgusted, etc...

Sure he can be disgusted but it's his own commisions fault for not having clearer rules to prosecute with.

County Mike
03-11-2009, 10:52 PM
Exactly! You can't convict someone of breaking a law that doesn't exist. All you can do is change the law to prevent future occurrences.

Hughes_GOAT
03-11-2009, 11:05 PM
And since the commission came in and and wiped him down its clear that they found it as excessive.

of course....

not to mention the rules have been changed in regards to Vaseline. and the Head of the NSAC has said it was unfair to Penn, Dana said it was illegal.

there is no question the NSAC is against GSP on this. it's just a matter of what, if anything, they're going to do. maybe fine Nurse, suspend him? GSP won't be punished though.

atomdanger
03-11-2009, 11:35 PM
Exactly! You can't convict someone of breaking a law that doesn't exist. All you can do is change the law to prevent future occurrences.

1. It wasn't a law.

2. They can do whatever they want.

kevint13
03-12-2009, 12:45 AM
The problem I have is that BJ never said anything about it until it became the big story and was questioned. If he had said something immediately during or after the fight then I would believe him. But when he laid there and made no attempt to scramble and get out from under GSP makes me not believe it is as bad as people are portraying the greasing to be.

It is all after the fact. If I go to the bank and withdraw money and find out that I got shorted after I have left, can I go back and get the rest? NO, it is my fault for not bringing it to their attention at the time. So if it didn't seem to be an issue for him during the fight, why should it be one now? Why did he and his team admit that GSP was the better fighter that night, then accuse him of greasing days later?

All I keep hearing on this is to test it...rub some vaseline in and try to wipe it off with a towel. That's great for BJ's case. I am asking anyone....have you read the response that GSP sent to the commission? They make some great points also.

F34R
03-12-2009, 12:48 AM
The problem I have is that BJ never said anything about it until it became the big story and was questioned. If he had said something immediately during or after the fight then I would believe him. But when he laid there and made no attempt to scramble and get out from under GSP makes me not believe it is as bad as people are portraying the greasing to be.

It is all after the fact. If I go to the bank and withdraw money and find out that I got shorted after I have left, can I go back and get the rest? NO, it is my fault for not bringing it to their attention at the time. So if it didn't seem to be an issue for him during the fight, why should it be one now? Why did he and his team admit that GSP was the better fighter that night, then accuse him of greasing days later?

All I keep hearing on this is to test it...rub some vaseline in and try to wipe it off with a towel. That's great for BJ's case. I am asking anyone....have you read the response that GSP sent to the commission? They make some great points also.

What if you don't find out until you leave that you've been short changed? Meaning, he found out about the greasing after it was all over already.

kevint13
03-12-2009, 12:50 AM
What if you don't find out until you leave that you've been short changed? Meaning, he found out about the greasing after it was all over already.

He found out about the greasing afterwards. If you felt like you were at a disadvantage, I think you would know it at the time. No better time to bring it up than when it is happening.

Tyburn
03-12-2009, 02:00 AM
Why cant Jay show HALF as much Heart, determination and bloody stamina in a fight as he does doing stupid, dumbass things like this?

Drop it already...the damage to Georges reputation is already done, there is no need to keep going on like a broken record.

I sware...if he'd given as much thought to preparing for the bout as he's doing in trying to get Pierre into trouble we'd have had a new unification already.

UFC have changed the rules...Noone believes that GSP is quite the classy individual he was prior to the bout...what more does he want???

This really irritates me about Penn. He doesnt do what he should do in a fight and does what he shouldnt do outside of it :rolleyes:

atomdanger
03-12-2009, 02:42 AM
The problem I have is that BJ never said anything about it until it became the big story and was questioned. If he had said something immediately during or after the fight then I would believe him. But when he laid there and made no attempt to scramble and get out from under GSP makes me not believe it is as bad as people are portraying the greasing to be.

It is all after the fact. If I go to the bank and withdraw money and find out that I got shorted after I have left, can I go back and get the rest? NO, it is my fault for not bringing it to their attention at the time. So if it didn't seem to be an issue for him during the fight, why should it be one now? Why did he and his team admit that GSP was the better fighter that night, then accuse him of greasing days later?

All I keep hearing on this is to test it...rub some vaseline in and try to wipe it off with a towel. That's great for BJ's case. I am asking anyone....have you read the response that GSP sent to the commission? They make some great points also.

BJ said something about it first,
that is why it became such a big story and problem.


What points did they make? They just said it wasn't intentional,
and that if any transferred it was minimal, what points did they make that were so great?

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 02:52 AM
He found out about the greasing afterwards. If you felt like you were at a disadvantage, I think you would know it at the time. No better time to bring it up than when it is happening.

he mentioned it to the AC before the fight because he felt GSP was slippery in the first fight too. i bet they held off on telling him until after because he probably would have called for a NC right then and there. then you have the supposed Florian tip beforehand as well.

Sakuraba got a NC against Akiyama well after the fight was over. during the fight he complained but the ref ignored him. i wouldn't be surprised if BJ gets a NC down the road.

kevint13
03-12-2009, 03:14 AM
BJ said something about it first,
that is why it became such a big story and problem.


What points did they make? They just said it wasn't intentional,
and that if any transferred it was minimal, what points did they make that were so great?

Really? He was the first to say "I think GSP was greasing"?

What points do they make? Here are a few:

The day after UFC 94, JD Penn admitted in his blog that "we are not trying to make excuses, GSP was the better fighter that night..." and "Georges did a great job last night, nobody is trying to take that from him."

Lubricant does not discriminate. If lubricant made Mr. Penn's grappling ineffective, it should have also made St. Pierre's grapping technique ineffective.

The entire statement that BJ's intention was to win the fight from the guard, when he never has nor has ever put on an attack from the guard leading to the end of the fight. He is known for his grapping from top position, guard passing, and back/mount control.

Is that enough?

kevint13
03-12-2009, 03:18 AM
he mentioned it to the AC before the fight because he felt GSP was slippery in the first fight too. i bet they held off on telling him until after because he probably would have called for a NC right then and there. then you have the supposed Florian tip beforehand as well.

Sakuraba got a NC against Akiyama well after the fight was over. during the fight he complained but the ref ignored him. i wouldn't be surprised if BJ gets a NC down the road.

I know what you are saying, but the timing doesn't make sense. Why do you not have excuses right afterwards, but now...oh wait he was really slippery and that is why I lost. And oh, someone saw them rub vaseline on his back!

If I was playing poker and I suspected someone of cheating, I would call them on it then....not after the fact. Why allow them to win then call them on it later? That doesn't make sense.

atomdanger
03-12-2009, 03:20 AM
Really? He was the first to say "I think GSP was greasing"?

What points do they make? Here are a few:

The day after UFC 94, JD Penn admitted in his blog that "we are not trying to make excuses, GSP was the better fighter that night..." and "Georges did a great job last night, nobody is trying to take that from him."

Lubricant does not discriminate. If lubricant made Mr. Penn's grappling ineffective, it should have also made St. Pierre's grapping technique ineffective.

The entire statement that BJ's intention was to win the fight from the guard, when he never has nor has ever put on an attack from the guard leading to the end of the fight. He is known for his grapping from top position, guard passing, and back/mount control.

Is that enough?


No, as Matt Hughes pointed out,
http://mmamania.com/2009/03/10/matt-hughes-and-sean-sherk-video-on-grease-gate-and-georges-st-pierre/

BJ's legs kept sliding wayyy off of GSP's back for no reason,
GSP was not pushing them down, etc...

One of BJ's biggest weapons is his flexibility with his legs,
by having grease on his shoulders, GSP made it so BJ could not use his biggest weapon against him.

Grease on my back would not stop me from GnPing you,
but it would stop you from doing a lot with your legs.

atomdanger
03-12-2009, 03:22 AM
I know what you are saying, but the timing doesn't make sense. Why do you not have excuses right afterwards, but now...oh wait he was really slippery and that is why I lost. And oh, someone saw them rub vaseline on his back!

If I was playing poker and I suspected someone of cheating, I would call them on it then....not after the fact. Why allow them to win then call them on it later? That doesn't make sense.


Why does the timing not make sense?

He thought he was slick, they looked into it, there was then video of grease being applied to the chest and back, so he complained.

This time line makes perfect sense to me lol

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 03:28 AM
I know what you are saying, but the timing doesn't make sense. Why do you not have excuses right afterwards, but now...oh wait he was really slippery and that is why I lost. And oh, someone saw them rub vaseline on his back!

If I was playing poker and I suspected someone of cheating, I would call them on it then....not after the fact. Why allow them to win then call them on it later? That doesn't make sense.

who knows if he complained to the ref? no one at home even knew the NSAC was rubbing Vaseline off GSP. but we do know he complained before the fight and after the fight.

GSP did the same thing when he fought Serra. he said all the right things, the better man won, blah, blah. then later, he said he didn't train properly, he was injured and if it had been Matt Hughes, he wouldn't have taken the fight.

only difference is, we can see what Penn is complaining about on video, it's tangible. what GSP said of Serra is not, and IMO, worse than what Penn is doing.

atomdanger
03-12-2009, 03:30 AM
Why cant Jay show HALF as much Heart, determination and bloody stamina in a fight as he does doing stupid, dumbass things like this?

Drop it already...the damage to Georges reputation is already done, there is no need to keep going on like a broken record.

I sware...if he'd given as much thought to preparing for the bout as he's doing in trying to get Pierre into trouble we'd have had a new unification already.

UFC have changed the rules...Noone believes that GSP is quite the classy individual he was prior to the bout...what more does he want???

This really irritates me about Penn. He doesnt do what he should do in a fight and does what he shouldnt do outside of it :rolleyes:


I really can't believe you of all people are against him filing an official report.
I mean, I figured you would be against whining and tell him to file or shut up.

kevint13
03-12-2009, 03:30 AM
No, as Matt Hughes pointed out,
http://mmamania.com/2009/03/10/matt-hughes-and-sean-sherk-video-on-grease-gate-and-georges-st-pierre/

BJ's legs kept sliding wayyy off of GSP's back for no reason,
GSP was not pushing them down, etc...

One of BJ's biggest weapons is his flexibility with his legs,
by having grease on his shoulders, GSP made it so BJ could not use his biggest weapon against him.

Grease on my back would not stop me from GnPing you,
but it would stop you from doing a lot with your legs.

Could BJ possibly have been tired and that made it look like that?

Your right, his flexibility is a weapon. But it's not all about flexibility, you have to use some muscle to keep the guy in guard. Did he ever try to escape? No.

True it wouldn't, but don't you think vaseline that may have transferred from GSP's face may have possibly gotten on BJ and made him slippery? Shouldn't that cause an issue for GSP it trying to control BJ? Shouldn't that help BJ try to escape?

And what about JD Penn's comment? Please shed some light on that?

kevint13
03-12-2009, 03:35 AM
who knows if he complained to the ref? no one at home even knew the NSAC was rubbing Vaseline off GSP. but we do know he complained before the fight and after the fight.

GSP did the same thing when he fought Serra. he said all the right things, the better man won, blah, blah. then later, he said he didn't train properly, he was injured and if it had been Matt Hughes, he wouldn't have taken the fight.

only difference is, we can see what Penn is complaining about on video, it's tangible. what GSP said of Serra is not, and IMO, worse than what Penn is doing.

Actually I did see the NSAC wiping him off during the PPV.

But why do you give a guy credit afterwards to completely change your story when news hits that the NSAC had to wipe vaseline off his back between rounds. If you didn't notice that something wasn't right during the fight, as it appears BJ didn't because he had no excuses, then why change your tune later?

atomdanger
03-12-2009, 03:36 AM
The bottom line is this.

If GSP / Camp had done nothing wrong,
then we wouldn't be having this argument, obviously a lot of people think he did something wrong.
and only the state will decide if it was enough to to punish anybody.

kevint13
03-12-2009, 03:40 AM
The bottom line is this.

If GSP / Camp had done nothing wrong,
then we wouldn't be having this argument, obviously a lot of people think he did something wrong.
and only the state will decide if it was enough to to punish anybody.

We'll just agree to disagree, I'm not going to sway you and you're not going to sway me.

We'll just wait and see what the commission comes back with and it will be all over....FINALLY!

bradwright
03-12-2009, 03:46 AM
if there was vaseline applied to GSPs back during the fight it was unintentional from what i have seen in the so called video proof,
But even if it was applied intentionally they didn't break any rules,
so i really dont see what all the fuss is about either way GSP kicked BJs ass fair and square,
if you dont like the rules allowing a greasing agent to be applied to a fighters body then CHANGE THE RULES!

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 03:46 AM
Actually I did see the NSAC wiping him off during the PPV.

But why do you give a guy credit afterwards to completely change your story when news hits that the NSAC had to wipe vaseline off his back between rounds. If you didn't notice that something wasn't right during the fight, as it appears BJ didn't because he had no excuses, then why change your tune later?

you saw people wiping him, but no one was saying, hey, the NSAC is wiping off GSP because he has excessive Vaseline on his chest, shoulders, neck and back and that it is illegal.

he complained about his greasing before the fight and after the fight. it's all on video, the rules have been changed. the Head NSAC has already said that it was unfair to Penn.

fighters say the right things afterwards all the time and then change their tune. GSP did it against Serra when he said Serra was the better fighter, then he changed it to i didn't train properly, i was injured, if it were Matt Hughes i wouldn't have taken the fight.

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 03:48 AM
they didn't break any rules,
!

yes they did, which is why the Head of the NSAC said it was unfair to Penn. the UFC has also changed the rules on how many guys can be in the Octagon between rounds and applying Vaseline.

atomdanger
03-12-2009, 03:48 AM
Could BJ possibly have been tired and that made it look like that?

Your right, his flexibility is a weapon. But it's not all about flexibility, you have to use some muscle to keep the guy in guard. Did he ever try to escape? No.

True it wouldn't, but don't you think vaseline that may have transferred from GSP's face may have possibly gotten on BJ and made him slippery? Shouldn't that cause an issue for GSP it trying to control BJ? Shouldn't that help BJ try to escape?

And what about JD Penn's comment? Please shed some light on that?


It doesn't matter if it changes the outcome of the fight, Like I said 20 times.
Cheating is cheating.

If you grab the fence during take downs 5 times but still KO me later,
and I don't gripe and just say you're the better fighter that still makes you a cheater lol.

atomdanger
03-12-2009, 03:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCYB1XP5LUc&feature=related

Watch that video and tell me the grease didn't make a difference.

I don't know if you're a GSP fan, or a BJ hater, or a mix of both,
but you're letting your opinion of either fighter cloud your judgment on the issue.

bradwright
03-12-2009, 03:52 AM
yes they did, which is why the Head of the NSAC said it was unfair to Penn. the UFC has also changed the rules on how many guys can be in the Octagon between rounds and applying Vaseline.


okay goat heres your chance,give me the link to the rule he broke,,

atomdanger
03-12-2009, 03:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNWlFXW_zGc&feature=related

Even better, a dermatologist talking about it.
Since nobody seems to believe my "try and wipe it off" comments

kevint13
03-12-2009, 03:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCYB1XP5LUc&feature=related

Watch that video and tell me the grease didn't make a difference.

I don't know if you're a GSP fan, or a BJ hater, or a mix of both,
but you're letting your opinion of either fighter cloud your judgment on the issue.

Wow I just agreed to disagree and then you fire this at me.....forget it.

bradwright
03-12-2009, 04:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNWlFXW_zGc&feature=related

Even better, a dermatologist talking about it.
Since nobody seems to believe my "try and wipe it off" comments


i'm sure everyone finds that quite interesting but there is no rule against applying greasing agents to your body in NSACs rules,

atomdanger
03-12-2009, 04:04 AM
i'm sure everyone finds that quite interesting but there is no rule against applying greasing agents to your body in NSACs rules,


then why is the NSAC taking a complaint?
and having a hearing on the matter?

Why didn't they simply say there was no rule against it and shut up?

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 04:15 AM
okay goat heres your chance,give me the link to the rule he broke,,

contact the NSAC. they decide if there was a violation and they have. hence, "it was unfair to Penn," and "it was illegal." the UFC changed the rule on who comes and goes and who applies the Vaseline because of this....what more do you want? it doesn't matter what you or i think the rules say, it's what the NSAC says the rules say. and they're quite clear....GSP cheated (intentional or not) and it was unfair to Penn.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dana White:

“I think it’s legit, I don’t think that B.J. will deny that he lost to GSP. But there’s nobody that watched that fight that can deny that the cornerman didn’t rub Vaseline on GSP.”

“Let me tell you what, I’ve been in this business for a long time, man, and when you’re around the fight game and you bump into the cornermen or whoever, and you shake their hand and they got Vaseline on ‘em… okay? They shake your hand and you’ got Vaseline on your hand and I’m like “[expletive]! The guy just got Vaseline all over my hand!"

“It doesn’t come off your hand until you wash it with soap and water. You just don’t wipe Vaseline off with a towel… it doesn’t work that way. The stuff stays on you and you stay slippery and you stay greasy until you wash it off with soap.”

“… The guy who is applying Vaseline to his face should not and cannot touch any other part of his body. It’s illegal. It is absolutely illegal. And you see his cornerman rubs around his neck down onto chest, rubs his shoulders, then rubs his chest and back. That is 100 percent [expletive] illegal. Okay?"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kizer said he found out later that Penn complained to the inspector in his corner after the first round that “Mr. St. Pierre was perhaps being a little more slippery that he should be.”

Other fighters have weighed in on the subject, with former champion Matt Hughes saying a greasy St. Pierre is nothing new to him.

“I’m not the only one who has said that GSP felt greasy during a fight,” Hughes, who lost his title to St. Pierre, said on his official website.
“I know (former champion) Matt Serra has mentioned it and, even in their first fight, I think B.J. said something. I’m not saying GSP did something wrong and I’m not saying that it would have changed any outcomes of any fights; but what I am saying is, for my last two fights against Georges, he felt greasy.”

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kizer:

"After the fight I talked to Mr. Nurse and Mr. St. Pierre and explained to them my concern, and told Mr. Nurse that unfortunately I think the actions of Mr. St. Pierre's cornermen may have tainted Mr. St. Pierre's win and that's unfortunate for Mr. St. Pierre," Kizer said.

"It was disturbing. Where it goes from here, if anything, I don't know." It wasn't necessary, it definitely wasn't fair to Mr. Penn."

"His cornerman should have been more careful if it was an accident. If it was intentional, that's even worse. Just very, very disturbing."

"I found out this morning -- I talked with another inspector of mine -- he said that apparently B.J. Penn had complained to the inspector in his corner after either the first or second round that he though maybe Georges was a little slippery. I found that out this morning. At the same time he was complaining we were actually handling the situation in Georges' corner. It's just unfortunate."

bradwright
03-12-2009, 04:16 AM
then why is the NSAC taking a complaint?
and having a hearing on the matter?

Why didn't they simply say there was no rule against it and shut up?

they told BJ he was welcome to make a complaint but they said that they were fairly certain there would be no action taken against GSP,
maybe a warning to his corner man but thats about it,

you see the rule states you can apply a greasing agent to your body,just not in excess,

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 04:18 AM
so the only thing in question is what will happen to GSP and or his corner....not if they did something illegal, because they did.

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 04:20 AM
Wow I just agreed to disagree and then you fire this at me.....forget it.

show him the Rich Franklin greasing :laugh:

kevint13
03-12-2009, 04:21 AM
you saw people wiping him, but no one was saying, hey, the NSAC is wiping off GSP because he has excessive Vaseline on his chest, shoulders, neck and back and that it is illegal.

he complained about his greasing before the fight and after the fight. it's all on video, the rules have been changed. the Head NSAC has already said that it was unfair to Penn.

fighters say the right things afterwards all the time and then change their tune. GSP did it against Serra when he said Serra was the better fighter, then he changed it to i didn't train properly, i was injured, if it were Matt Hughes i wouldn't have taken the fight.

I'm sorry, but I did not see 'excessive' vaseline applied to GSP.

I don't care if he complained about it before the fight or after someone told him what happened, he had admitted defeat and then said that GSP cheated and that is why he lost. If he thought there was something going on, why did he not say it right then? And since the NSAC was wiping GSP down, maybe they should have done their job and called it at that point!

GSP made an excuse after fighting Serra, that he was dealing with a lot of issues. He is taking blame for the loss. Big difference from admitting defeat and then accusing the winner of cheating.

Like I said previously, we can all agree to disagree. That is how I see things and I presented that. You and Atom have presented things and I acknowledge them, but don't necessarily agree. I am done arguing over this. It's all good, that is what a forum is for.

atomdanger
03-12-2009, 04:22 AM
they told BJ he was welcome to make a complaint but they said that they were fairly certain there would be no action taken against GSP,
maybe a warning to his corner man but thats about it,

you see the rule states you can apply a greasing agent to your body,just not in excess,

You're right, but the Head of the state commission said it was disturbing and unfair to BJ penn.

But you know a lot more than him right?

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 04:24 AM
You're right, but the Head of the state commission said it was disturbing and unfair to BJ penn.

But you know a lot more than him right?

:laugh:

atomdanger
03-12-2009, 04:25 AM
Everybody cast your vote

bradwright for head of the NSAC!!!!

bradwright
03-12-2009, 04:28 AM
show him the Rich Franklin greasing :laugh:

not sure why you would want to parade a bunch of quotes out here when all i asked you to do is show me where in the NSACs rules on MMA that it says its illegal to grease your body,thats all,nothing more,

i really thought that would be easy for you,

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 04:30 AM
I'm sorry, but I did not see 'excessive' vaseline applied to GSP.

the NSAC disagrees.

I don't care if he complained about it before the fight or after someone told him what happened, he had admitted defeat and then said that GSP cheated and that is why he lost. If he thought there was something going on, why did he not say it right then? And since the NSAC was wiping GSP down, maybe they should have done their job and called it at that point!

he did complain during the fight, read what i posted. it comes straight from Kizer's mouth.

GSP made an excuse after fighting Serra, that he was dealing with a lot of issues. He is taking blame for the loss. Big difference from admitting defeat and then accusing the winner of cheating.

no he didn't. he said the better fighter won. then days later he said he wasn't focused, he was injured and wouldn't have taken the fight if it had been Matt Hughes. basically, saying he didn't respect Serra enough to postpone the fight that he ended up getting KTFO in.

Like I said previously, we can all agree to disagree. That is how I see things and I presented that. You and Atom have presented things and I acknowledge them, but don't necessarily agree. I am done arguing over this. It's all good, that is what a forum is for.

cool

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 04:34 AM
not sure why you would want to parade a bunch of quotes out here when all i asked you to do is show me where in the NSACs rules on MMA that it says its illegal to grease your body,thats all,nothing more,

i really thought that would be easy for you,

well, maybe because the quotes tell you what he did was illegal :rolleyes:

and like i said, it doesn't matter what you think the rules say. they decide what the rules are, what the rules mean. comprende? it doesn't matter what you think they mean.

the only question is what the penalty will be.

try to keep up :wink:

kevint13
03-12-2009, 04:34 AM
he did complain during the fight, read what i posted. it comes straight from Kizer's mouth.


I did read it and unfortunately it was while I was typing my last post. If that is the case then really the NSAC dropped the ball and action should have been taken then.

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 04:35 AM
Everybody cast your vote

bradwright for head of the NSAC!!!!

:laugh:

bradwright
03-12-2009, 05:53 PM
:laugh:

here it is goat,,
there is no where in the rules that say no greasing,
in fact the rules say you can grease,
i've asked you twice now to show me a rule that says you cant grease and all i get back from you is reaction i would expect to get from a 12 year old,

it really doesn't seem that you take facts in to account when you post,
if you want to act like a child then i'm all done discussing this with you,

have fun with your grade school friends,

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 06:04 PM
here it is goat,,
there is no where in the rules that say no greasing,
in fact the rules say you can grease,
i've asked you twice now to show me a rule that says you cant grease and all i get back from you is reaction i would expect to get from a 12 year old,

it really doesn't seem that you take facts in to account when you post,
if you want to act like a child then i'm all done discussing this with you,

have fun with your grade school friends,

like i said, you don't interpret the rules, the NSAC does. they didn't come in screaming and yelling, kicking the Vaseline out of the Octagon because you know something they don't. they didn't say after the fight that GSP's win was tainted and that it was unfair to Penn because they didn't know about a rule that you think you know more about then the people that wrote them.

the only thing in question is what the penalty will be. it has been addressed ad nauseam that GSP, whether intentional or not, cheated by "excessively" greasing. his team already apologized. if it wasn't illegal, they wouldn't have apologized. if it wasn't illegal, they wouldn't be discussing what to do with Nurse for future fights. if it wasn't illegal, they wouldn't have changed the rules about who comes into the Octagon between rounds.

you were a smart ass first, i gave it back to you. obviously you can't handle it....and you say i'm acting like a child. :rolleyes:

rockdawg21
03-12-2009, 06:06 PM
So Baby Jay makes it official that he's a baby.

Nonetheless, perhaps something good will come out of it.

bradwright
03-12-2009, 06:10 PM
like i said, you don't interpret the rules, the NSAC does. they didn't come in screaming and yelling, kicking the Vaseline out of the Octagon because you know something they don't. they didn't say after the fight that GSP's win was tainted and that it was unfair to Penn because they didn't know about a rule that you think you know more about then the people that wrote them.

the only thing in question is what the penalty will be. it has been addressed ad nauseam that GSP, whether intentional or not, cheated by "excessively" greasing. his team already apologized. if it wasn't illegal, they wouldn't have apologized. if it wasn't illegal, they wouldn't be discussing what to do with Nurse for future fights. if it wasn't illegal, they wouldn't have changed the rules about who comes into the Octagon between rounds.

you were a smart ass first, i gave it back to you. obviously you can't handle it....and you say i'm acting like a child. :rolleyes:
i really thought you were smarter then this

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 06:11 PM
i really thought you were smarter then this

just stop while you're ahead....or i'll have to request Nate change your name to BradWrong.

bradwright
03-12-2009, 06:19 PM
just stop while you're ahead....or i'll have to request Nate change your name to BradWrong.
dont worry,,i'm pretty much all done with this.

Tyburn
03-12-2009, 08:37 PM
dont worry,,i'm pretty much all done with this.
:unsure-1: its alright Brad, Andreas smushes everyone to begin with. It were just the same with me when I first came here.

With time you'll understand and grow and be able to smush him back :w00t:

I feel like I'm playing with him now, rather then being violated all the time like before :laugh:

Crisco
03-12-2009, 08:54 PM
dont worry,,i'm pretty much all done with this.

Lol Bradwrong was a pretty sweet come back actually lol.

bradwright
03-12-2009, 08:59 PM
Lol Bradwrong was a pretty sweet come back actually lol.
for a 10 year old,

Crisco
03-12-2009, 10:07 PM
for a 10 year old,

Lighten up grandpa jeez

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 10:57 PM
:unsure-1: its alright Brad, Andreas smushes everyone to begin with. It were just the same with me when I first came here.

With time you'll understand and grow and be able to smush him back :w00t:

I feel like I'm playing with him now, rather then being violated all the time like before :laugh:

ah Dave, you miss me? :ashamed:

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 10:59 PM
dont worry,,i'm pretty much all done with this.

cool

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 11:01 PM
for a 10 year old,

a 10 year old that owned you :cool:

Tyburn
03-12-2009, 11:16 PM
ah Dave, you miss me? :ashamed:
Like a hole in the head :laugh:

A little...perhaps :ashamed:

Hughes_GOAT
03-12-2009, 11:45 PM
Like a hole in the head :laugh:

A little...perhaps :ashamed:

:cool:

bradwright
03-12-2009, 11:57 PM
a 10 year old that owned you :cool:
owned me?,thats a laugh,
try checking your facts,
or are you so smart you dont need the facts.

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 12:01 AM
owned me?,thats a laugh,
try checking your facts,
or are you so smart you dont need the facts.

i've already stated facts....you just keep repeating your same old canard. feel free to post the rule that you think you know better than the NSAC, Dana White, MMA fighters, etc.

and btw, i know exactly what it says....so i'm letting you know ahead of time you will look real bad if you post it.....post at your own risk.:)

bradwright
03-13-2009, 12:10 AM
[QUOTE=Hughes_GOAT]i've already stated facts....you just keep repeating your same old canard. feel free to post the rule that you think you know better than the NSAC, Dana White, MMA fighters, etc.

and btw, i know exactly what it says....so i'm letting you know ahead of time you will look real bad if you post it.....post at your own risk.:)

post it at my own risk?

wow,,you dont bother to read anything do you,

it was already posted earlier in this thread,

lol,you really need to grow up a little,,

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 12:19 AM
[QUOTE=Hughes_GOAT]i've already stated facts....you just keep repeating your same old canard. feel free to post the rule that you think you know better than the NSAC, Dana White, MMA fighters, etc.

and btw, i know exactly what it says....so i'm letting you know ahead of time you will look real bad if you post it.....post at your own risk.:)

post it at my own risk?

wow,,you dont bother to read anything do you,

it was already posted earlier in this thread,

lol,you really need to grow up a little,,

i know it was posted earlier. i want you to post it again so when people see me smash you over it, it will resinate that much more since they will see the rule you keep referring to....then my response.....mmmkay?

StizzoFoShizzo
03-13-2009, 12:19 AM
If the Nevada state atheletic commision is gooing to punish gsp, they have to do it under the violation of a NAC rule/regulation. What rule exactly will they use? It doesn't matter what the judge or jurys personal beleifs are, they still have to look at what the rules state and decide whether or not this was a violation or not. It is obvious to anyone with eyes who has seen the videos, gsp's corner man rubbed Vaseline into his back, shoulders, and pecks. Now, it didn't look like much to me but it was enough for commision popo to freak and whipe gsp down "more than once". I'm really curious to see how this is handled. I have looked for the rules regarding greasing in the state of Nevada, all I can find is what was posted a while back in this thread. IMO if that is the only rule against greasing, then what happened that fight night is about all they can do. Do you think a judge likes to throw away cases on technicalities? It's disgusting, but it's the way TPTB want it.

bradwright
03-13-2009, 12:21 AM
[QUOTE=bradwright]

i know it was posted earlier. i want you to post it again so when people see me smash you over it, it will resinate that much more since they will see the rule you keep referring to....then my response.....mmmkay?
your just to childish for me goat,,
when you grow up get back to me,,untill then we are done.

StizzoFoShizzo
03-13-2009, 12:22 AM
..now take yer hammer and smash away!!!!

StizzoFoShizzo
03-13-2009, 12:24 AM
Just go easy on me..... Remember I'm only a junior member!

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 12:30 AM
[QUOTE=Hughes_GOAT]
your just to childish for me goat,,
when you grow up get back to me,,untill then we are done.

if you're trying not to understand, or just don't care, you should explicitly say so and we can all just move along.

no one is being childish here but you. i had enough respect to refute your position and yet you still claim ignorance?

sorry, but you came with the sarcasm first, i just gave it back. if you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen gramps.

:rolleyes:

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 12:32 AM
Just go easy on me..... Remember I'm only a junior member!

i'm not arguing that Penn would have won if not for this or was it intentional or not? i'm arguing that it was illegal to do what GSP's corner did....apparently BradWrong knows more then the NSAC :Whistle:

Tyburn
03-13-2009, 02:07 AM
Just go easy on me..... Remember I'm only a junior member!
:laugh: Andreas spares no man :ninja:


or woman :rolleyes:

timmyja
03-13-2009, 02:12 AM
Mike Goldberg voice:
"After a pretty long hiatus, and a lot of light sparring in the forums, Goat has answered any questions about potential ring-rust with his verbal mauling of BradWrong tonight. Frankly, Joe I am impressed!"

Joe Rogan voice:
"Yeah mike... WOW.. what else can we say? Who can stop that guy? A crafty veteran, I mean, he's like Roy Jones in his prime. Its not a matter of who's next in line to argue with him, it's a matter of who wants to?"

Tyburn
03-13-2009, 02:14 AM
Mike Goldberg voice:
"After a pretty long hiatus, and a lot of light sparring in the forums, Goat has answered any questions about potential ring-rust with his verbal mauling of BradWrong tonight. Frankly, Joe I am impressed!"

Joe Rogan voice:
"Yeah mike... WOW.. what else can we say? Who can stop that guy? A crafty veteran, I mean, he's like Roy Jones in his prime. Its not a matter of who's next in line to argue with him, it's a matter of who wants to?"
:ninja: The Mighty Tyburn can stop him :punch:

infact...stopped him in his posting prime after the schism of 59 :laugh:

:frantics:

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 02:27 AM
infact...stopped him in his posting prime after the schism of 59 :laugh:

:frantics:
oh please....not that again, Dave. :laugh: you're still in denial :laugh:

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 02:30 AM
Mike Goldberg voice:
"After a pretty long hiatus, and a lot of light sparring in the forums, Goat has answered any questions about potential ring-rust with his verbal mauling of BradWrong tonight. Frankly, Joe I am impressed!"

Joe Rogan voice:
"Yeah mike... WOW.. what else can we say? Who can stop that guy? A crafty veteran, I mean, he's like Roy Jones in his prime. Its not a matter of who's next in line to argue with him, it's a matter of who wants to?"

:happy0198:

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 02:31 AM
or woman :rolleyes:

depends on if they're hot or not :Whistle:

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 02:38 AM
infact...stopped him in his posting prime after the schism of 59 :laugh:

:frantics:

and i'm still in my prime...you act like i'm old and over the hill....like Pulver :tongue0011:

Tyburn
03-13-2009, 03:28 AM
oh please....not that again, Dave. :laugh: you're still in denial :laugh:
:ninja: and you should have stayed retired :laugh:

Thats right. I retired him :laugh: :laugh:

okay...so he left...but thats coz he couldnt andle ma riddum :punch: :laugh:

Tyburn
03-13-2009, 03:30 AM
and i'm still in my prime...you act like i'm old and over the hill....like Pulver :tongue0011:
Ken Shamrock was the name that sprung to mind actually :rolleyes:

The difference between You and Pulver is he can catch a second wind...you can only produce one :unsure:

:laugh: :laugh:

Talk about verbal shadowboxing :frantics:

lc87
03-13-2009, 03:35 AM
From what I have seen goats pretty good but I think I've seen some chinks in his armour. I think if I "go in gunz ablazing and throwing bolows" I might have a chance.

That's one of my fav pre fight quotes of all time leben was good for something besides a punching bag

lc87
03-13-2009, 03:36 AM
Im just kiddin don't kill me

que
03-13-2009, 03:40 AM
bradright, if greasing is so legal, then why has dana white, joe rogan, the athletic commission, and many other professionals stated that what happened in the octagon that night was completely and utterly NOT legal?

are you saying they are all wrong, and you are right?

i would think dana white, joe rogan and the athletic commission knows more than you do on whether GSP's greasing was legal or not.

Tyburn
03-13-2009, 03:41 AM
From what I have seen goats pretty good but I think I've seen some chinks in his armour. I think if I "go in gunz ablazing and throwing bolows" I might have a chance.

That's one of my fav pre fight quotes of all time leben was good for something besides a punching bag
He's got amazing Stamina.

He can fight a bout over more then a week, and in more then a single thread.

In his hey day you could combine that with Speed. Every few seconds there would be a posted response in one of as many as five active threads with sparring taking place.

It was all consuming.

THATS how I got a start on my post count. When he left about July (I joined in March) I already had HALF the post count I would have in total two years after he was gone. 15K posts in 5 months. Thats three thousand for every month!!!! The next two years I managed the same over a span of about twenty four months...less then 0ne K a month

then when he went...I was like...Anderson Silva...noone sharp enough to challenge me :unsure-1: Andreas was also pretty much my mentor. I'd never been on another forum before coming here...I can verbal spar in real life...but I'd never done it in cyberspace before.

lc87
03-13-2009, 04:05 AM
I said I was kiddin and not to kill me. The only net I have is my phone so im too slow to achive greatness.

Tyburn
03-13-2009, 04:06 AM
I said I was kiddin and not to kill me. The only net I have is my phone so im too slow to achive greatness.
:laugh: greatness is over-rated :ninja:

You'd have to talk to andreas about Greatness...I dont know nothing about that :)

I wont Kill you...but he might :unsure:

bradwright
03-13-2009, 05:43 AM
if you're trying not to understand, or just don't care, you should explicitly say so and we can all just move along.

no one is being childish here but you. i had enough respect to refute your position and yet you still claim ignorance?

sorry, but you came with the sarcasm first, i just gave it back. if you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen gramps.

:rolleyes:
i understand,,but you sure dont,
quite acting like a child and post the rule in the NSAC rule book that prohibits greasing,

and no i didn't start the sarcasm,,you did ,

but hey you can end it all,just post the rule,,

is that really so hard for you?

YOU SEEM TO BE REAL GOOD AT SHOOTING YOUR MOUTH OFF,YOUR JUST NOT MUCH INTO BACKING ANYTHING UP WITH FACTS,

and no telling me Dana and some guys from the NSAC say its illegal isn't proof,,

probably none of those guys ever read the rules thoroughly enough to know what the rule states,

well,i did,now its your turn,

but hey if you wish not to because it contradicts everything you say then by all means then,,just keep on ranting like a child and ignore the truth.

seems to be what you do all the time anyway.

Moose
03-13-2009, 06:14 AM
then when he went...I was like...Anderson Silva...noone sharp enough to challenge me :unsure-1: Andreas was also pretty much my mentor. I'd never been on another forum before coming here...I can verbal spar in real life...but I'd never done it in cyberspace before.

You beat me everytime with your ability to make me feel uninterested. Your posts exploit my weakness to everything boring and flaccid. Congratulations ;)

VCURamFan
03-13-2009, 06:40 AM
i understand,,but you sure dont,
quite acting like a child and post the rule in the NSAC rule book that prohibits greasing,

and no i didn't start the sarcasm,,you did ,

but hey you can end it all,just post the rule,,

is that really so hard for you?

YOU SEEM TO BE REAL GOOD AT SHOOTING YOUR MOUTH OFF,YOUR JUST NOT MUCH INTO BACKING ANYTHING UP WITH FACTS,

and no telling me Dana and some guys from the NSAC say its illegal isn't proof,,

probably none of those guys ever read the rules thoroughly enough to know what the rule states,

well,i did,now its your turn,

but hey if you wish not to because it contradicts everything you say then by all means then,,just keep on ranting like a child and ignore the truth.

seems to be what you do all the time anyway.Here's what I find really ironic, Brad: GOAT's been begging you to post the rule for about a week now. All of a sudden you get pissy & start asking him to do it?:frantics:

Also, what the NSAC has to say abuot the rule is THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. They are the governing body. They wrote the rule. They interpret the rule. If they say it's illegal, IT IS. It's really that simple. Explain to me why it is that the Athletic Commission's opinon concerning an infraction of a rule they wrote during a fight in their jurisdiction. You make no sense.

Moose
03-13-2009, 07:08 AM
Here's what I find really ironic, Brad: GOAT's been begging you to post the rule for about a week now. All of a sudden you get pissy & start asking him to do it?:frantics:

Also, what the NSAC has to say abuot the rule is THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. They are the governing body. They wrote the rule. They interpret the rule. If they say it's illegal, IT IS. It's really that simple. Explain to me why it is that the Athletic Commission's opinon concerning an infraction of a rule they wrote during a fight in their jurisdiction. You make no sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBCLMXojkJc

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT....

LOUD NOISES!

Neezar
03-13-2009, 11:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBCLMXojkJc

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT....

LOUD NOISES!


.....attract bears!

:laugh: :laugh:

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 01:46 PM
Here's what I find really ironic, Brad: GOAT's been begging you to post the rule for about a week now. All of a sudden you get pissy & start asking him to do it?:frantics:

Also, what the NSAC has to say abuot the rule is THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. They are the governing body. They wrote the rule. They interpret the rule. If they say it's illegal, IT IS. It's really that simple. Explain to me why it is that the Athletic Commission's opinon concerning an infraction of a rule they wrote during a fight in their jurisdiction. You make no sense.

thank you. this whole thing is getting ridiculous. sometimes i even wonder if Brad is a troll?

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 01:48 PM
Ken Shamrock was the name that sprung to mind actually :rolleyes:

The difference between You and Pulver is he can catch a second wind...you can only produce one :unsure:

:laugh: :laugh:

Talk about verbal shadowboxing :frantics:

Shamrock is definitely over the hill :laugh: but Pulver was more apropo in this situation.

i don't need a second wind, i get the job done the first time around. :cool:

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 01:50 PM
bradright, if greasing is so legal, then why has dana white, joe rogan, the athletic commission, and many other professionals stated that what happened in the octagon that night was completely and utterly NOT legal?

are you saying they are all wrong, and you are right?

i would think dana white, joe rogan and the athletic commission knows more than you do on whether GSP's greasing was legal or not.

yes, unfortunately that is what he is saying.:rolleyes:

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 01:52 PM
He's got amazing Stamina.



that's what she said :ashamed:

Hughes_GOAT
03-13-2009, 01:59 PM
i understand,,but you sure dont,
quite acting like a child and post the rule in the NSAC rule book that prohibits greasing,

and no i didn't start the sarcasm,,you did ,

but hey you can end it all,just post the rule,,

is that really so hard for you?

YOU SEEM TO BE REAL GOOD AT SHOOTING YOUR MOUTH OFF,YOUR JUST NOT MUCH INTO BACKING ANYTHING UP WITH FACTS,

and no telling me Dana and some guys from the NSAC say its illegal isn't proof,,

probably none of those guys ever read the rules thoroughly enough to know what the rule states,

well,i did,now its your turn,

but hey if you wish not to because it contradicts everything you say then by all means then,,just keep on ranting like a child and ignore the truth.

seems to be what you do all the time anyway.

are you trying to be obtuse or is it just natural for you?

and yes you did start it...with your, "i thought you smarter than that", and "it shouldn't be hard for you" sarcastic comments. but of course, continue to play ignorant, it's what you do best.

just say you don't know how to copy and paste....then i'll post the rule for you.

LOL, at "some guys from the NSAC"...like the they're just some random fans who don't know the rules? you really are funny or is it sad? i'm not sure which right now?

it doesn't contradict anything i say, it strengthens what i say. the NSAC, Dana White, the actual fighters, like Matt Hughes, according to you, don't know what they're talking about.:laugh:

how many more people do you need to laugh at you before you post the rule or shut your pie?

Chuck
03-13-2009, 02:25 PM
He's got amazing Stamina.

He can fight a bout over more then a week, and in more then a single thread.

In his hey day you could combine that with Speed. Every few seconds there would be a posted response in one of as many as five active threads with sparring taking place.

It was all consuming.

Is that really your definition of greatness? :huh:

It seems a little sad to me actually.....


Having a life > "winning" an internet argument....

Tyburn
03-13-2009, 02:26 PM
Shamrock is definitely over the hill :laugh: but Pulver was more apropo in this situation.

i don't need a second wind, i get the job done the first time around. :cool:
:ninja: you havent reigned here in years :punch:

I am Champion now :tongue0011:

...actually thats not true. To be honnest, someone like VCUramfan, or one of the women like Michelle, Denise, Primadawn, Amy...they probably eclipsed me in style and show some time ago to be fair.

Tyburn
03-13-2009, 02:28 PM
Is that really your definition of greatness? :huh:

It seems a little sad to me actually.....


Having a life > "winning" an internet argument....
:rolleyes: try not to take this too seriously Chuck.

also...if you can post here...you can reply to my PM about meeting in Virginia...:ninja: :laugh:

Chuck
03-13-2009, 02:41 PM
it doesn't contradict anything i say, it strengthens what i say. the NSAC, Dana White, the actual fighters, like Matt Hughes, according to you, don't know what they're talking about.:laugh:

how many more people do you need to laugh at you before you post the rule or shut your pie?

I think you're taking it out of context... You two are BOTH just repeating the same mantra and neither of you have given any acknowledgment to what the other has said.

This entire argument is subjective so there will be no "winner" no matter how many insults you fling or forum members you get on your "side".

Here are some facts... the rules of the NSAC simply state that "excessive" grease is illegal. That is the problem. "excessive". How does any fighter know what a governing body will think is excessive. What if the rules said "excessive" groin strikes or grabbing of the fence was illegal. How crazy would the internet arguments be then??

I don't believe for a second that GSP or his camp were trying to use Vaseline to cheat. All of the GSP haters and trolls who just love a good argument have made this their Holy Grail but it's ridiculous. Even IF Nurse were applying grease to GSP's chest (Why?) and his back on purpose that action alone isn't against any rules.

Matt and other fighters saying he felt "greasy" proves nothing other then..... he felt greasy. But feeling greasy isn't against any rule nor is putting grease on. Is it a BS tactic? Hell yeah. And if I thought it were intentional I would probably be part of the lynch mob against GSP with the rest of you. But it wasn't in my opinion.

Is ONLY becomes cheating when the NSAC decides it was excessive. When they (NSAC) thought it was excessive they wiped it off and let the fight continue. When somebody grabs the fence do the stop a fight and rule it a NC? No. They address the issue, like they did with wiping off his back. Is it the best way? Probably not but that's what the rules say.


I don't think this whole big commotion has much to do with grease and rules or the NSAC. It's about people hating GSP and Penn nuthuggers having a hard time accepting that Penn got dominated.

IMO opinion anyway :wink:

Chuck
03-13-2009, 02:49 PM
:rolleyes: try not to take this too seriously Chuck.

also...if you can post here...you can reply to my PM about meeting in Virginia...:ninja: :laugh:
I thought I did reply!!! Ooops!! :unsure:


And I'm not taking it too serious...at least I don't think I am. It just makes me sad that in the sub-culture of internet forums we celebrate behavior that wouldn't be acceptable in the real world.

The "pack" mentality and celebrating when someone gets "posted to death" has always troubled me.

It just seems like a very juvenile way to settle a dispute....

There are some on here who I really enjoy a good debate with.. they use facts, state their position clearly and will often admit good points being made by others... folks like Llama and Spirit...VCU & JB.... there are others but I'm drawing a blank right now... anyway... for ME.... I get the most out of a "debate" when I feel like I've walked away learning something or gaining a perspective because those are my goals going into it.

My goals aren't to "win" by being the last one standing or recruiting others to take my side... it's just not my thing.

But it's cool.... to each their own! :D


But carry on by all means!!! :laugh:

Neezar
03-13-2009, 03:17 PM
I thought I did reply!!! Ooops!! :unsure:


And I'm not taking it too serious [well, actually you came in where Dave was trying to provide comic relief in (and maybe even diffuse) a situation and starting picking apart a post and belittling someone over a post that was obviously made in jest. I vote too serious.] ...at least I don't think I am. It just makes me sad that in the sub-culture of internet forums we celebrate behavior that wouldn't be acceptable in the real world.


The "pack" mentality (you have been known to lead the pack especially when it comes to poking fun at people, babe) and celebrating when someone gets "posted to death" has always troubled me.

It just seems like a very juvenile way to settle a dispute....
(it is juvenile no matter whether it is in a dispute or just plain making fun of people)

There are some on here who I really enjoy a good debate with.. they use facts, state their position clearly and will often admit good points being made by others... folks like Llama and Spirit...VCU & JB.... there are others but I'm drawing a blank right now (I bet you are, :laugh: ) ... anyway... for ME.... I get the most out of a "debate" when I feel like I've walked away learning something or gaining a perspective because those are my goals going into it.

My goals aren't to "win" by being the last one standing or recruiting others to take my side... it's just not my thing. (My brain didn't even get that statement processed good before it was yelling "Not true! Ack! Don't believe it!")

But it's cool.... to each their own! :D


But carry on by all means!!! :laugh:

:huh: You wouldn't be jealous now, would you?

rearnakedchoke
03-13-2009, 04:13 PM
I think you're taking it out of context... You two are BOTH just repeating the same mantra and neither of you have given any acknowledgment to what the other has said.

This entire argument is subjective so there will be no "winner" no matter how many insults you fling or forum members you get on your "side".

Here are some facts... the rules of the NSAC simply state that "excessive" grease is illegal. That is the problem. "excessive". How does any fighter know what a governing body will think is excessive. What if the rules said "excessive" groin strikes or grabbing of the fence was illegal. How crazy would the internet arguments be then??

I don't believe for a second that GSP or his camp were trying to use Vaseline to cheat. All of the GSP haters and trolls who just love a good argument have made this their Holy Grail but it's ridiculous. Even IF Nurse were applying grease to GSP's chest (Why?) and his back on purpose that action alone isn't against any rules.

Matt and other fighters saying he felt "greasy" proves nothing other then..... he felt greasy. But feeling greasy isn't against any rule nor is putting grease on. Is it a BS tactic? Hell yeah. And if I thought it were intentional I would probably be part of the lynch mob against GSP with the rest of you. But it wasn't in my opinion.

Is ONLY becomes cheating when the NSAC decides it was excessive. When they (NSAC) thought it was excessive they wiped it off and let the fight continue. When somebody grabs the fence do the stop a fight and rule it a NC? No. They address the issue, like they did with wiping off his back. Is it the best way? Probably not but that's what the rules say.


I don't think this whole big commotion has much to do with grease and rules or the NSAC. It's about people hating GSP and Penn nuthuggers having a hard time accepting that Penn got dominated.

IMO opinion anyway :wink:


Pretty much spot on .. i think penn really wants it to be scored a No Contest ... which is funny, cuz it really was No Contest ... LOL

Tyburn
03-13-2009, 04:26 PM
1)I thought I did reply!!! Ooops!! :unsure:


2) And I'm not taking it too serious...at least I don't think I am. It just makes me sad that in the sub-culture of internet forums we celebrate behavior that wouldn't be acceptable in the real world.

The "pack" mentality and celebrating when someone gets "posted to death" has always troubled me.

It just seems like a very juvenile way to settle a dispute....

3) There are some on here who I really enjoy a good debate with.. they use facts, state their position clearly and will often admit good points being made by others... folks like Llama and Spirit...VCU & JB.... there are others but I'm drawing a blank right now... anyway... for ME.... I get the most out of a "debate" when I feel like I've walked away learning something or gaining a perspective because those are my goals going into it.

My goals aren't to "win" by being the last one standing or recruiting others to take my side... it's just not my thing.

But it's cool.... to each their own! :D


But carry on by all means!!! :laugh:

1)You didnt reply, there is no tick next to your name, because I dont know where your meeting me, Richmond, or Virginia Beach. :)

2) It depends if your out matched. Verbal sparring is just witty banter, and yes it happens in real life. But you have to have reasonably competant witty thinkers, that arent going to burst into tears at the slightest verbal jab...usually in fun...not always...but usually. There were some hatred filled battles between Andreas and I...but we havent shouted at each other in years...not really...not like when we were fighting every single hour of the day on here. :laugh:

3) so thats why you dont talk to me much anymore :angry: its alright...I get it :sad:


:laugh:

I'll tell you something else that hasnt happened in nearly as long. Denise...jumping to my defence :w00t: :ashamed:

Tyburn
03-13-2009, 04:27 PM
:huh: You wouldn't be jealous now, would you?
:laugh:

Moose
03-13-2009, 04:39 PM
that's what she said :ashamed:

Winner winner chicken dinner!

That's two Steve Carell references in one thread. Good Golly this thread is a WINNER!

Bonnie
03-13-2009, 04:53 PM
Forget Penn and GSP, make the players faceless and nameless and look at the BIGGER picture here!:rolleyes:

They obviously need to reword/rewrite the standing rule(s) regarding greasing and/or any other substances that could be used to gain an unfair advantage against an opponent. They need to word it so it's nice and tight and allows no loopholes for "interpretation" and they need to be clear on the consequenses if you are caught.

This situation was bound to happen at some point; the Penn/Gsp fight just precipitated the matter. So, why don't we all thank them for bringing the inadequacy of this rule into the spotlight so it can be dealt with (hopefully).

Why don't I start...

Thanks Georges; Thanks Baby Jay



:laugh:

Bonnie
03-13-2009, 05:24 PM
Brad, you're right, the rule doesn't say it's illegal!

and

Goat, you're right, the NSAC and Dana White interpret the rule as it is illegal!

O' my...glory hallelujah...would you look at that, you're both RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

It's a...NO CONTEST!!!! :frantics:




:tongue0011:

bradwright
03-13-2009, 05:37 PM
Brad, you're right, the rule doesn't say it's illegal!

and

Goat, you're right, the NSAC and Dana White interpret the rule as it is illegal!

O' my...glory hallelujah...would you look at that, you're both RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

It's a...NO CONTEST!!!! :frantics:




:tongue0011:

thats all fine and good but if we stop now then what would we do for entertainment,

did you ever think about that Bonnie?(can i call you Bonnie?,doesn't matter i'm going to anyway.)

i'm not sure either one of us want common sense to prevail here,
but what the heck,this is only going to escalate until some one ends up losing an eye,
and then what,so i will go back and delete my last post and call it quits,
hope you have a nice day goat,

thanks Bonnie,

Tyburn
03-13-2009, 06:26 PM
:laugh: a no contest...or a draw...or Brad...are you tapping out...are you quiting :huh: :laugh:

Bonnie
03-13-2009, 07:52 PM
:laugh: a no contest...or a draw...or Brad...are you tapping out...are you quiting :huh: :laugh:

Dave, be good! :whip:

Don't get Brad all riled up again! Puhleeze!!! :cry:

Tyburn
03-13-2009, 07:55 PM
Dave, be good! :whip:

Don't get Brad all riled up again! Puhleeze!!! :cry:
:laugh: okay...okay...

I'll step in a call a halt to the contest :rolleyes:

declairing the bout a no contest :ninja:

Hughes_GOAT
03-14-2009, 01:42 AM
ok, here's the deal....like i said, i'm not arguing that GSP would have lost if not for greasing, i'm not arguing it was intentional or not. i'm arguing that the act itself, of greasing his body, was illegal.

here's the rule:

"The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant."

the NSAC legislation relies on someone else's interpretation of the rule to tell you that you cannot grease the body, and Kizer (Director of the NSAC) has said that it is his interpretation of that rule that no grease can be applied to the body, and only "non-excessive" amounts can be applied to the face.


so excessive means more than necessary.

the necessary amount of vaseline on your back and shoulders is zero.

therefore anything more than zero is excessive.

the NSAC was notified by Liddell, someone that knows the rules better than any of us, that GSP's corner was using vaseline on his body. Kizer and crew went in screaming and yelling for Nurse to take his hands off GSP's body. they kicked the vaseline out of the octagon in disgust.

this is not something the NSAC would do if Nurse rubbing down GSP was legit.

as far as Matt and other fighters complaining about GSP feeling greasy, it's relevant because like Matt also said, he's had 40+ fights, 2,000+ wrestling matches and he knows the difference between sweat slipperiness and greasing slipperiness.

Hughes_GOAT
03-14-2009, 01:59 AM
Brad, you're right, the rule doesn't say it's illegal!

and

Goat, you're right, the NSAC and Dana White interpret the rule as it is illegal!

O' my...glory hallelujah...would you look at that, you're both RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

It's a...NO CONTEST!!!! :frantics:




:tongue0011:

not

it says The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant. excessive is an interpretation, it's not measured. and the NSAC has determined it was excessive. the NSAC, Dana White, and numerous pro fighters know you can't excessively grease the body, only certain GSP fans don't.

Hughes_GOAT
03-14-2009, 02:05 AM
and Chuck, they can wipe all they want, the grease stays. like Dana said, you need soap and water to get rid of it. rubbing it off only spreads it more in a thinner layer and then it gets into the pores and sweats out later. basically, GSP would have to shower to assure he wasn't still slippery.

greasing is much more egregious than grabbing the cage or groin shots. points are usually deducted and time is given to recover in those situations. they didn't even tell Penn until after the fight that GSP greased, even though Penn was complaining during the fight that GSP was greasy. Kizer has said that was unfortunate.

and when has the NSAC or Dana White for that matter, gone ballistic over cage grabs or groin shots? greasing is clearly more damaging.

Spiritwalker
03-14-2009, 02:08 AM
Contest or no... intentional or not...

Baby Jay will get ANOTHER beat down..I wonder what his excuse for quitting the next time will be....?

Bonnie
03-14-2009, 02:48 AM
not

it says The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant. excessive is an interpretation, it's not measured. and the NSAC has determined it was excessive. the NSAC, Dana White, and numerous pro fighters know you can't grease the body, only certain GSP fans don't.

I humbly stand corrected GOAT.:wink: Thank you for posting the rule so everyone can see/read it.

Hopefully, they'll fix it so this rule is defined that leaves no room for "interpretation" of where, how, how much and who applies the vaseline/substance. :cool:

Hughes_GOAT
03-14-2009, 02:56 AM
I humbly stand corrected GOAT.:wink: Thank you for posting the rule so everyone can see/read it.

Hopefully, they'll fix it so this rule is defined that leaves no room for "interpretation" of where, how, how much and who applies the vaseline/substance. :cool:

well the UFC has already changed who is allowed in the corner between rounds and when the vaseline is applied.

Japan does it best.

1.) they allow you to wear pants, this helps absorb slipperiness, both natural and illegal.

2.) if you're caught using grease, it will be a NC.

3.) Vaseline is only allowed to the face before the first round, none after.

Bonnie
03-14-2009, 03:08 AM
well the UFC has already changed who is allowed in the corner between rounds and when the vaseline is applied.

Japan does it best.

1.) they allow you to wear pants, this helps absorb slipperiness, both natural and illegal.

2.) if you're caught using grease, it will be a NC.

3.) Vaseline is only allowed to the face before the first round, none after.

Ahh, very wise! :cool:

bradwright
03-14-2009, 04:57 PM
ok, here's the deal....like i said, i'm not arguing that GSP would have lost if not for greasing, i'm not arguing it was intentional or not. i'm arguing that the act itself, of greasing his body, was illegal.

here's the rule:

"The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant."

the NSAC legislation relies on someone else's interpretation of the rule to tell you that you cannot grease the body, and Kizer (Director of the NSAC) has said that it is his interpretation of that rule that no grease can be applied to the body, and only "non-excessive" amounts can be applied to the face.


so excessive means more than necessary.

the necessary amount of vaseline on your back and shoulders is zero.

therefore anything more than zero is excessive.

the NSAC was notified by Liddell, someone that knows the rules better than any of us, that GSP's corner was using vaseline on his body. Kizer and crew went in screaming and yelling for Nurse to take his hands off GSP's body. they kicked the vaseline out of the octagon in disgust.

this is not something the NSAC would do if Nurse rubbing down GSP was legit.

as far as Matt and other fighters complaining about GSP feeling greasy, it's relevant because like Matt also said, he's had 40+ fights, 2,000+ wrestling matches and he knows the difference between sweat slipperiness and greasing slipperiness.



the rule states non excessive amounts may be applied to the face and body,
it doesn't say no grease shall be applied to the body and only non excessive amounts to the face,,
see the difference?

Hughes_GOAT
03-15-2009, 03:45 AM
the rule states non excessive amounts may be applied to the face and body,
it doesn't say no grease shall be applied to the body and only non excessive amounts to the face,,
see the difference?

ok, first of all, Kizer determined it was excessive, not, non excessive.

second of all, this is the rule:

"The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant."

third of all, Kizer, told NBCSports.com that while the written regulation doesn't outlaw greasing the body, fighters at MMA events are verbally told by both the commission and the promoter that it is not allowed.


game, set and match.

bradwright
03-15-2009, 04:18 AM
ok, first of all, Kizer determined it was excessive, not, non excessive.

second of all, this is the rule:

"The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant."

third of all, Kizer, told NBCSports.com that while the written regulation doesn't outlaw greasing the body, fighters at MMA events are verbally told by both the commission and the promoter that it is not allowed.


game, set and match.
i guess you just dont understand the difference,
oh well,,
game set and match,

Hughes_GOAT
03-15-2009, 04:26 AM
i guess you just dont understand the difference,
oh well,,
game set and match,

i'll play Devil's Advocate. yes, you can use Vaseline on the body according to the rule.....BUT, also written in the same rule, it can't be excessive....following so far? guess who determines what excessive is? that's right, the NSAC and Kizer is the Director of the NSAC who decided it was illegal (excessive).

Kizer, told NBCSports.com that while the written regulation doesn't outlaw greasing the body, fighters at MMA events are verbally told by both the commission and the promoter that it is not allowed.

so either way you look at, the excessive angle or the fact that fighters are told ahead of time they are not allowed to put grease on their bodies.....you lose.

que
03-15-2009, 04:39 AM
Brad, you're right, the rule doesn't say it's illegal!

and

Goat, you're right, the NSAC and Dana White interpret the rule as it is illegal!

O' my...glory hallelujah...would you look at that, you're both RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

It's a...NO CONTEST!!!! :frantics:




:tongue0011:
true, but the only problem is that GSP's amount of grease WAS illegal, so in this circumstance GOAT wins

no one in their right minds would think what happened that night was legal. LOL at that. you'd have to be one corrupt individual to believe that. if every fighter used that much in every fight, do you know how quickly this sport would go laughed upon by the masses and go under? it would be de-legitamized and go under before you could say "Pride" or "Skala"

thank GOD bradright is not a member of the athletic commission, or a cornerman, or a fighter, or anyone even remotely close to working for any sports. the athletic commission and dana white agree with me. that's all i have to say, about that

Hughes_GOAT
03-15-2009, 04:42 AM
thank GOD bradright is not a member of the athletic commission, or a cornerman, or a fighter, or anyone even remotely close to working for any sports. the athletic commission and dana white agree with me. that's all i have to say, about that

:laugh:

Hughes_GOAT
03-15-2009, 04:44 AM
true, but the only problem is that GSP's amount of grease WAS illegal, so in this circumstance GOAT wins



almost forgot

:applause:

Hughes_GOAT
03-15-2009, 04:55 AM
Rogan agrees too:

1:40 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV8FqCnUHHs

billythekid2000
03-15-2009, 05:23 AM
The formal complaint has no chance of succeeding in it's objectives:
Kizer and the NSAC witnessed the illegal greasing and wiped it off with a towel. They were obviously satisfied that the amount of vaseline left was no longer illegal otherwise they would not have the the fight continue.

To now rule the fight as an NC would be ridiculous, Unless Kizer is willing to admit that he screwed up and should not have let the fight continue or should have ruled an NC immediately after the fight.

Moose
03-15-2009, 05:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTxr2NJHa0

Chuck
03-15-2009, 05:59 AM
ok, first of all, Kizer determined it was excessive, not, non excessive.

second of all, this is the rule:

"The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant."

third of all, Kizer, told NBCSports.com that while the written regulation doesn't outlaw greasing the body, fighters at MMA events are verbally told by both the commission and the promoter that it is not allowed.


game, set and match.

So you're saying that the fighters are TOLD by the NSAC that the rules say one thing but they should ignore it and do what somebody says instead????

You don't think that's a little odd????

Hughes_GOAT
03-15-2009, 06:20 AM
So you're saying that the fighters are TOLD by the NSAC that the rules say one thing but they should ignore it and do what somebody says instead????

You don't think that's a little odd????

Asked whether the rules should be amended to include no greasing the body, Kizer said, "Not necessarily, but it wouldn't hurt. The reason for rules is to give notice as to what's illegal, and they have notice of that."

Chuck
03-15-2009, 06:41 AM
Asked whether the rules should be amended to include no greasing the body, Kizer said, "Not necessarily, but it wouldn't hurt. The reason for rules is to give notice as to what's illegal, and they have notice of that."

Well don't you see the concern then?

The reason for rules is to give notice as to what's illegal... ergo... greasing IS legal... excessive greasing is not...according to the rules.

but the NSAC tells them to ignore the rules and listen to what they say???

I would love to know what the NSAC tells the fighters before the fight??? I highly doubt before Greasegate this was ever addressed.

Ask ANYBODY on this forum 2 months ago if putting Vaseline on your body before a fight was legal and I'm sure most everybody would say no... but technically that's incorrect.

Stupid of course... but still incorrect.

VCURamFan
03-15-2009, 06:54 AM
Rogan agrees too:

1:40 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV8FqCnUHHsI agree with everything he said on the subject.

Hughes_GOAT
03-15-2009, 07:06 AM
Well don't you see the concern then?

The reason for rules is to give notice as to what's illegal... ergo... greasing IS legal... excessive greasing is not...according to the rules.

but the NSAC tells them to ignore the rules and listen to what they say???

I would love to know what the NSAC tells the fighters before the fight??? I highly doubt before Greasegate this was ever addressed.

Ask ANYBODY on this forum 2 months ago if putting Vaseline on your body before a fight was legal and I'm sure most everybody would say no... but technically that's incorrect.

Stupid of course... but still incorrect.

the NSAC is still covered according to their rules. all they have to say is it was excessive. just better to listen and not grease.

most fighters don't know the rules verbatim anyway...Matt didn't. so they go by what the NSAC tells them before every fight.

Hughes_GOAT
03-15-2009, 07:07 AM
I agree with everything he said on the subject.

me too:)

Chuck
03-15-2009, 07:12 AM
the NSAC is still covered according to their rules. all they have to say is it was excessive. just better to listen and not grease.

most fighters don't know the rules verbatim anyway...Matt didn't. so they go by what the NSAC tells them before every fight.

Yeah, like I was saying... it would be interesting to see what they actually say to the fighters before they go out. I wonder if they actually mentioned greasing before this?

Hughes_GOAT
03-15-2009, 07:31 AM
Yeah, like I was saying... it would be interesting to see what they actually say to the fighters before they go out. I wonder if they actually mentioned greasing before this?

don't know myself but Kizer says greasing is one of them. i'll believe Kizer on this. he has no reason to lie. fighters could sue him if he didn't really warn them.

Neezar
03-16-2009, 04:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTxr2NJHa0

:laugh: :huh: :laugh: