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Spiritwalker
05-09-2011, 08:55 PM
Opinion: Bin Laden's sea burial was 'sad miscalculation'

I could careless!!! Why?? Daniel Pearl!! And who many others?????

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/09/religious-paper-cuts-clinton-from-iconic-photo/?hpt=T2


Editor's note: Abdal Hakim Murad is a lecturer in Islamic Studies at the Faculty of Divinity, Cambridge University, England. In 2010 he was voted Britain's most influential Muslim thinker by Jordan's Royal Islamic Strategic Studies Center. His latest book, Bombing without Moonlight, is about the religious meaning of suicide bombing.

(CNN) -- Death, as Henry James put it, is "that distinguished thing." Whether we believe in immortality or think that consciousness dies with the body, we instinctively treat it with a mixture of nervousness and respect. We remember the deaths of Socrates, of Kennedy, of Gandhi, and of Hitler.

Unless suicidal, their deaths were not of their choosing; yet in a strange way they remain a living part of their legacy. Sometimes our final moments forever shape the way we are remembered.

The death and disposal of the Middle East's "Dark Lord," was always going to be an iconic moment. Its symbolism would provide a particular twist to the way he was remembered. Doubtless this was realized by President Obama's strategists. Yet there are good reasons, pragmatic as well as idealistic, to suggest that the final showdown with Osama bin Laden was dangerously mismanaged.

The burial at sea was a sad miscalculation. It is not clear where the Pentagon finds its information on Islamic rituals. It cannot ignore, however, the fact that Muslim leaders have found the procedure by which the cadaver was tipped into the sea, following an unspecified Muslim ceremony, entirely unacceptable.

Then let them suffer... HA... Guess what.. I hope he wasn't death.. but alive.. and wounded.. and then tossed overboard..
The leading scholarly institution in the Muslim world is Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt. And the Muslim world has heard, with disquiet, Al-Azhar's judgement on the "sea burial."

The burial at sea was a "violation of Islamic procedures"

--Shaykh Ahmad al-Tayyib
Although Bin Laden had routinely attacked Al-Azhar's scholars as apostates and collaborators with the Egyptian regime, and they had no time for his Wahhabi beliefs, the Azharites were unanimous. The head of Al-Azhar, Shaykh Ahmad al-Tayyib, proclaimed the American action to be a violation of Islamic procedures.

"This contradicts all humanitarian principles," he declared. "In Islamic law, it is forbidden to mistreat a human body, whatever its religion or sect may have been. To honor a body, one must bury it."

How short some peoples memory REALLY is...

The venerated former Mufti of Egypt, Shaykh Nasr Farid Wasil, spoke even more forcibly. The procedures apparently followed by the Americans, including the shrouding of the body were, he said, incorrect and "illogical."

He was followed by Taha Abu Kuraysha, a leading expert in Islamic law, who said the American procedure amounted to a "mutilation" of a dead body, "entirely forbidden by Islam."

Bin Laden's watery funeral is looking, therefore, like a kind of macabre posthumous victory. By failing to dispose of the body in a way acceptable to Muslims, as defined by their leaders, America has helped to create a further legend about its contempt for Islam.

Moreover, it has shown that, 10 years after 9/11, it has still not managed to understand even the most basic of Muslim practices. The result is likely to be further mistrust, at a moment that should have been a turning point, and a closing of an ugly and bitter chapter.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Abdal Hakim Murad.

Miss Foxy
05-09-2011, 09:05 PM
Note to all muslims across the world whether you are extreme/peaceful....IDGAF about Bin Ladens burial.. The bastards body has already been sunk, chewed, s*itted,and spat out!!:laugh:

Dethbob
05-09-2011, 09:24 PM
It irritates me that we continue to bow and scrape to these idiots. Bush was little better on that count, both administrations bending over backward to please these scumbags who would just as soon cut our throats. I donít get it. We donít need them to like us, we are not going to get them to like us, and in what way is it a good idea to even try?

Killing Bin Laden should have been a victory, we are doing everything we can to turn it into a defeat. Dammit.

Spiritwalker
05-10-2011, 12:15 PM
Killing Bin Laden should have been a victory, we are doing everything we can to turn it into a defeat. Dammit.


ohhh... well said sir... well said.

Llamafighter
05-10-2011, 01:04 PM
It irritates me that we continue to bow and scrape to these idiots. Bush was little better on that count, both administrations bending over backward to please these scumbags who would just as soon cut our throats. I donít get it. We donít need them to like us, we are not going to get them to like us, and in what way is it a good idea to even try?

Killing Bin Laden should have been a victory, we are doing everything we can to turn it into a defeat. Dammit.

I think it's more about making a conscious effort not to endanger US citzens studying and serving the military overseas.
It's easy to sit over here and say "screw em" but when we have contactors and students and others over there we have to be a little more careful.

not saying it's right but I can understand.

Miss Foxy
05-10-2011, 04:33 PM
I think it's more about making a conscious effort not to endanger US citzens studying and serving the military overseas.
It's easy to sit over here and say "screw em" but when we have contactors and students and others over there we have to be a little more careful.

not saying it's right but I can understand.

Your absolutely correct.. It's unfortunate no matter what decision the US made we would have been scrutinized either way across the globe..

Dethbob
05-10-2011, 04:45 PM
I think it's more about making a conscious effort not to endanger US citzens studying and serving the military overseas.
It's easy to sit over here and say "screw em" but when we have contactors and students and others over there we have to be a little more careful.

not saying it's right but I can understand.

If keeping Americans and our allies safe is the objective, then Iím not sure how this moves us toward that goal.

Pretending to be Islamic is not going to work because... thatís right, because weíre not Islamic, and authentic Islams can tell the difference.

Being weak hearted and apologizing for defending ourselves is another strategy we seem to trying, is there a precedent for that having worked in the past? Even our allies regard it as a sign of weakness at best, at worst it makes us look as if none of it is necessary and weíre just randomly killing people who donít need to die.

I think it should be more of a deterrent to our enemies and a reassurance to our allies and to the uninvolved if we refrain from violence unless it has to be done and afterward simply say ĎWe did what had to be doneí.

Spiritwalker
05-10-2011, 04:50 PM
Being weak hearted and apologizing for defending ourselves is another strategy we seem to trying, is there a precedent for that having worked in the past? Even our allies regard it as a sign of weakness at best, at worst it makes us look as if none of it is necessary and weíre just randomly killing people who donít need to die.



AGREED!

rearnakedchoke
05-10-2011, 06:04 PM
this was a no win situation and i think it was dealt with in the proper manner ... if his body was not buried and kept for scientific observation, there would be hell over not burying his body, if he was buried, there would be hell over where he was buried, he'd probably have a shrine built around him, if he were captured, you'd have hostages being taken and demanding his release, his trial would be unfair .. the best thing obama did was have him shot, placed in a white sheet and dumped off the side of the boat ...

Dethbob
05-10-2011, 06:18 PM
this was a no win situation and i think it was dealt with in the proper manner ... if his body was not buried and kept for scientific observation, there would be hell over not burying his body, if he was buried, there would be hell over where he was buried, he'd probably have a shrine built around him, if he were captured, you'd have hostages being taken and demanding his release, his trial would be unfair .. the best thing obama did was have him shot, placed in a white sheet and dumped off the side of the boat ...

Absolutely, and well put. I just think we weaken our position by implying that conducting ourselves according to Islamic standards is necessary to legitimize what we did.

Spiritwalker
05-10-2011, 06:42 PM
this was a no win situation and i think it was dealt with in the proper manner ... ...

Of course it was a win situation.. The US has killed the mastermind/finanicer of the worst terrorist attacks on the United States of America. Attacks that cost over 3k lives... and how many others due to after effects..

Would the States have gone after his group had these attacks both previous attacks on the trade centers and US interests and peoples? Nope.. that means they brought it on themselves.

Maybe I am short sighted or vendicitive.. but pretty much.. other considerations are VERY secondary... IMO

I think we handled it in a manner MUCH better than they have handeled those of us that they have killed. If that makes us better.. great ancillary benefits..

Spiritwalker
05-10-2011, 06:43 PM
Absolutely, and well put. I just think we weaken our position by implying that conducting ourselves according to Islamic standards is necessary to legitimize what we did.

:cool:

County Mike
05-10-2011, 06:43 PM
My response to the protestors:

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs4/150/i/2004/258/b/1/DX_SUCK_IT__ID_by_D_Generation_X.jpg

Llamafighter
05-10-2011, 07:13 PM
If keeping Americans and our allies safe is the objective, then Iím not sure how this moves us toward that goal.

Pretending to be Islamic is not going to work because... thatís right, because weíre not Islamic, and authentic Islams can tell the difference.

Being weak hearted and apologizing for defending ourselves is another strategy we seem to trying, is there a precedent for that having worked in the past? Even our allies regard it as a sign of weakness at best, at worst it makes us look as if none of it is necessary and weíre just randomly killing people who donít need to die.

I think it should be more of a deterrent to our enemies and a reassurance to our allies and to the uninvolved if we refrain from violence unless it has to be done and afterward simply say ĎWe did what had to be doneí.

I think that's how we responded. unless you're considering the sea burial and observation of (or attempt to observe) Muslim burial. The attempt to give what we considered a respectful burial was to show the Islamic community (of much thousands of Americans belong to as well) that this wasn't an assassination of their religion but a direct response to radicalism that attacks Americans.

I don't think anyone on the planet questions why we took out Bin Laden. I certainly don't think we apologized for it.

have you read "The Lone Survivor" by Marcus Luttrell? fantastic book and honestly everything that happens unfolds based on a decision made to do what was politically right. Great book.
I could be totally offtrack but that is my perspective and I know we live in different parts of the country and have different day-to day- experiences, so no offense meant.

rockdawg21
05-10-2011, 08:05 PM
My response to the protestors:

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs4/150/i/2004/258/b/1/DX_SUCK_IT__ID_by_D_Generation_X.jpg
+1

Dethbob
05-10-2011, 08:35 PM
I think that's how we responded. unless you're considering the sea burial and observation of (or attempt to observe) Muslim burial. The attempt to give what we considered a respectful burial was to show the Islamic community (of much thousands of Americans belong to as well) that this wasn't an assassination of their religion but a direct response to radicalism that attacks Americans.

I donít have a problem with showing respect for a fallen foe; I have a problem with pretending we did something Islamic.

I could be totally offtrack but that is my perspective and I know we live in different parts of the country and have different day-to day- experiences, so no offense meant.

No offence taken, of course, I appreciate your insight.




Of course, youíre still wrong.:tongue0011:

flo
05-10-2011, 08:43 PM
have you read "The Lone Survivor" by Marcus Luttrell? fantastic book and honestly everything that happens unfolds based on a decision made to do what was politically right. Great book.


Thanks for the recommendation. I recently heard about that book and was debating whether to get it at the library or Amazon. Guess I'll go with Amazon.




No offence taken, of course, I appreciate your insight.




Of course, youíre still wrong.:tongue0011:

:laugh:

Tyburn
05-10-2011, 08:50 PM
If your not Islamic...you dont need to follow Islamic law.

The United States dont have to make any attempt to follow Islamic Law in the disposing of any Islamic Terrorist.

I wouldnt have burried him at sea...but thats got nowt to do with Islam...and a lot to do with prooving his death in the first place....the weak idea of no burrial place, no martyrdom is stupid...local terrorists are calling it "the martyres sea" :rolleyes::laugh:

Rev
05-10-2011, 09:12 PM
Im cool with throwing him off the boat, but only after dipping his body in a pool of pig blood and packing his body with porkchops. BTW All on video and on the web.

Tyburn
05-10-2011, 09:15 PM
Im cool with throwing him off the boat, but only after dipping his body in a pool of pig blood and packing his body with porkchops. BTW All on video and on the web.

I still think...with his crimes...his head needed to be on a spike for a week somewhere prominant whilst the crows feast.

For Centuries, thats how the English "Respected" the customs of the criminally executed.

I dont see why one should change an old traditional custom. :laugh:

Llamafighter
05-10-2011, 09:18 PM
No offence taken, of course, I appreciate your insight.

Of course, youíre still wrong.:tongue0011:

:laugh::laugh:

Play The Man
05-10-2011, 09:48 PM
I still think...with his crimes...his head needed to be on a spike for a week somewhere prominant whilst the crows feast.

For Centuries, thats how the English "Respected" the customs of the criminally executed.

I dont see why one should change an old traditional custom. :laugh:
Poor Oliver Cromwell's corpse was disinterred from Westminster and sent to Tyburn. His head was on a bridge for years before it was taken down and passed around to various owners. The head wasn't buried again until 1960!

Play The Man
05-10-2011, 09:50 PM
I think the burial at sea was a good compromise; however, Bin Laden should not have been given a funeral. Put his body in a bag and throw it into the ocean.

Tyburn
05-10-2011, 10:43 PM
Poor Oliver Cromwell's corpse was disinterred from Westminster and sent to Tyburn. His head was on a bridge for years before it was taken down and passed around to various owners. The head wasn't buried again until 1960!

Serves him right for leading the Parliamentarians during the Civil war...and changing the Republic into a Military Dictatorship coz whilst he could kill the king, he couldnt kill the corruption in his own hand picked Government :mellow:


...okay...so exhuming him was a little harsh....:unsure-1: