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View Full Version : Wisconsin Senate GOP Votes to Strip State Workers of Collective Bargaining Rights


VCURamFan
03-10-2011, 01:47 AM
YES!!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/09/wisconsin-republicans-plan-pass-budget-democrats-sources-say/
Bypassing Democrats hiding out in Illinois, Wisconsin Senate Republicans voted Wednesday night to strip state workers of their collective bargaining rights.

Republicans voted 18-1 to pass the stripped-down budget bill in a hastily arranged meeting. None of the Senate Democrats were present.
The state Assembly is expected to vote on the bill Thursday.

All 14 Senate Democrats fled to Illinois nearly three weeks ago, preventing the chamber from having enough members present to consider Gov. Scott Walker's so-called "budget repair bill" -- a proposal introduced to plug a $137 million budget shortfall..

The Senate requires a quorum to take up any measures that spend money. But Republicans on Wednesday split from the legislation the proposal to curtail union rights, and a special conference committee of state lawmakers approved that bill a short time later.
Wisconsin Senate Democratic leader Mark Miller said Wednesday Democrats will "join the people of Wisconsin in taking back their government," but he refused to say when.

The lone Democrat present on the conference committee, Rep. Tony Barca, shouted that the surprise meeting was a violation of the state's open meetings law but Republicans voted over his objections. The Senate then convened within minutes and passed it without discussion or debate.
Spectators in the gallery screamed "You are cowards."

Before the sudden votes, Democratic Sens. Bob Jauch said if Republicans "chose to ram this bill through in this fashion, it will be to their political peril. They're changing the rules. They will inflame a very frustrated public."
Walker praised the legislative action.

"The Senate Democrats have had three weeks to debate this bill and were offered repeated opportunities to come home, which they refused," he said in a statement.

"In order to move the state forward, I applaud the Legislature's action today to stand up to the status quo and take a step in the right direction to balance the budget and reform the government," he said. "The action today will help ensure Wisconsin has a business climate that allows the private sector to create 250,000 new jobs."

State Senate Democratic Minority Leader Mark Miller issued a statement saying, "Tomorrow we will join the people of Wisconsin in taking back their government."

flo
03-10-2011, 01:51 AM
Bravo.

:happy0159:

VCURamFan
03-10-2011, 02:20 AM
My favorite part is how the protesters called them "cowards" while supporting the people who ran away to another state in order to avoid conflict. :laugh:

logrus
03-10-2011, 02:27 PM
My favorite part is how the protesters called them "cowards" while supporting the people who ran away to another state in order to avoid conflict. :laugh:

I am glad it passed, maybe now more people like you will be left behind.... :Whistle:

County Mike
03-10-2011, 02:50 PM
I'm still not sure about this one. I don't really know all the facts yet but I'm not sure if taking away the unions (or the unions rights) is good or bad for the people.

rearnakedchoke
03-10-2011, 02:59 PM
I'm still not sure about this one. I don't really know all the facts yet but I'm not sure if taking away the unions (or the unions rights) is good or bad for the people.

i guess the only way to tell is the next elections ... if the people like it, they'll keep the current group around, if not .. well, we'll see .. i am curious to see how other states will react .. will they follow suit or keep status quo and watch what happens in wisconsin ...

VCURamFan
03-10-2011, 03:06 PM
I am glad it passed, maybe now more people like you will be left behind.... :Whistle:
O, that's really clever what you did there: since I'm from America & I disagree with you, I'm clearly a dumbass. Man, so I'm glad you came trolling into this thread with no other intent than to insult & stir up ••••. How could us poor ignorant fools in the world's greatest nation ever manage to get anything done without your bull••••, passive-aggressive, "I can't logically support my opinions so instead I'll just commit juvenile ad hominem attacks on my opponent's intelligence & character in the vague hope that I can distract people from the topic at hand & feel worthwhile because I made fun of someone on the internet" one liners?

For crying out loud, man, even COUNTYMIKE managed to contribute something worthwhile in this thread!

http://norwegianity.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/files_troll_2.jpg?w=320&h=352

DonnaMaria
03-10-2011, 03:25 PM
Personally it makes me upset that this has happened. Waiting for it to happen here in NJ now.

I guess I'm biased because I am part of a union. I don't think that my union is blameless and that unions, in general, shouldn't be looked at and tweaked. I know there is a lot of funny business and waste going on ..........on BOTH sides........

but I know that without my union........there would be a lot of crazy stuff going on in my district. Contracts being broken, work hours increased without compensation..........those are just two items on the endless list.

Unions were put in place and continue to be needed because some employers can't be trusted to do the right thing by their employees.

That is just my opinion though. As a union member.............

Miss Foxy
03-10-2011, 03:35 PM
I am not happy about this at all. I have always been union until this job and I was always taken well care of.. I think being in a non-union workforce is awful..No sense of security, growth, or fairness at all.. Just my thoughts though..

VCURamFan
03-10-2011, 03:42 PM
Personally it makes me upset that this has happened. Waiting for it to happen here in NJ now.

I guess I'm biased because I am part of a union. I don't think that my union is blameless and that unions, in general, shouldn't be looked at and tweaked. I know there is a lot of funny business and waste going on ..........on BOTH sides........

but I know that without my union........there would be a lot of crazy stuff going on in my district. Contracts being broken, work hours increased without compensation..........those are just two items on the endless list.

Unions were put in place and continue to be needed because some employers can't be trusted to do the right thing by their employees.

That is just my opinion though. As a union member.............

I am not happy about this at all. I have always been union until this job and I was always taken well care of.. I think being in a non-union workforce is awful..No sense of security, growth, or fairness at all.. Just my thoughts though..
Thank you for sharing your opinions. I'm really glad that we can have an intelligent exchange of thoughts & ideas with one another.

As an outsider looking in, I've felt that while unions were, at one point, a huge necessity & ar estill important to protect workers, the current unions (much like our government) have grown & morphed into mutations of their original purposes.

(btw, is anyone here shocked that the Sicilian on here is a member of the Jersey Union? :ninja: :laugh:)

Miss Foxy
03-10-2011, 04:04 PM
We have continually had layoffs where I work.. Here's the drill.. Lay-off people who have been here and earned the higher pay to higher newer people and pay them less.. Wow this would NEVER have happened in a union.. I am actually planning a luncheon as we speak for my dear co-worker who's last day is April 1st.. Just sad..:sad:

rearnakedchoke
03-10-2011, 04:05 PM
Thank you for sharing your opinions. I'm really glad that we can have an intelligent exchange of thoughts & ideas with one another.

As an outsider looking in, I've felt that while unions were, at one point, a huge necessity & ar estill important to protect workers, the current unions (much like our government) have grown & morphed into mutations of their original purposes.

(btw, is anyone here shocked that the Sicilian on here is a member of the Jersey Union? :ninja: :laugh:)

i have never been a fan of unions myself, but let's see, how do i put this nicely ... i feel that unions for "skilled" work like teachers is necessary .. i am not a fan of autoworkers, city workers etc unions .. not to say that they are not skilled, but most of them got the job first and then became skilled ... just my opinion and hope that it doesn't offend anyone ...

Miss Foxy
03-10-2011, 04:07 PM
i have never been a fan of unions myself, but let's see, how do i put this nicely ... i feel that unions for "skilled" work like teachers is necessary .. i am not a fan of autoworkers, city workers etc unions .. not to say that they are not skilled, but most of them got the job first and then became skilled ... just my opinion and hope that it doesn't offend anyone ...

I am skilled with a degree that had nothing to do with my job and the job I obtained in the union environment was much harder than the job I had a degree for.. Lol. food for thought. Mostly all jobs we obtain the "skill" when we are actually on the job..:rolleyes:

rearnakedchoke
03-10-2011, 04:09 PM
I am skilled with a degree that had nothing to do with my job and the job I obtained in the union environment was much harder than the job I had a degree for.. Lol. food for thought. Mostly all jobs we obtain the "skill" when we are actually on the job..:rolleyes:

yeah .. i know .. i just know a lot of guys that work for the city or for GM or other places and these are the guys that dropped out of school and stuff .. now they make real good money and are always complaining .. they got their jobs cuz they knew someone and act like they are irreplaceable ..

Miss Foxy
03-10-2011, 04:13 PM
yeah .. i know .. i just know a lot of guys that work for the city or for GM or other places and these are the guys that dropped out of school and stuff .. now they make real good money and are always complaining .. they got their jobs cuz they knew someone and act like they are irreplaceable ..

That don't happen here in California..City jobs require hs diploma, testing, background checks, etc. I do understand what you mean about complainers.. I was one of those always yapping about how my job sucked and in retrospect leaving Kaiser was the biggest mistake of my life aside from marrying that fornicator ex-husband! :laugh:

VCURamFan
03-10-2011, 04:15 PM
We have continually had layoffs where I work.. Here's the drill.. Lay-off people who have been here and earned the higher pay to higher newer people and pay them less.. Wow this would NEVER have happened in a union.. I am actually planning a luncheon as we speak for my dear co-worker who's last day is April 1st.. Just sad..:sad:
Yeah, that really does suck, but it's what happens in a down economy like this. I mean, I don't know the specifics of your job, so maybe your CEOs are really just a bunch of a-holes, but it seems to me that it's better to have to fire some & keep the doors open for the rest as opposed to being "loyal" & possibly going under.

This is what annoys me the most about this whole situation, I think: everyone is faces really tough times right now & 10% of our country is without a job, yet the unions & teachers are complaining about not getting raises/bonues/extra benefits? I come from a family of educators (Mom's got a Masters in Ed & home-schooled all of us for at least portions of our childhoods, sister taught 2nd/3rd grade until she had kids & now homeschools all 4 of them, brother & sister in law both high school teachers working in publics schools and a private Christian high school), so I would normally be all about teachers getting extra pay because we all know that they're woefully underpaid. However, in times like these, they should be thankful for the jobs that they have & not be complaining that they want more.

County Mike
03-10-2011, 05:09 PM
It sounds like we need union reform, but maybe not union irradication. Someone has to stick up for the little guy, but that someone shouldn't be corrupt.

DonnaMaria
03-10-2011, 05:19 PM
It sounds like we need union reform, but maybe not union irradication. Someone has to stick up for the little guy, but that someone shouldn't be corrupt.

I agree. There was a lot of abuse going on, but the abuse should have been addressed and corrected.

DonnaMaria
03-10-2011, 05:23 PM
Yeah, that really does suck, but it's what happens in a down economy like this. I mean, I don't know the specifics of your job, so maybe your CEOs are really just a bunch of a-holes, but it seems to me that it's better to have to fire some & keep the doors open for the rest as opposed to being "loyal" & possibly going under.

This is what annoys me the most about this whole situation, I think: everyone is faces really tough times right now & 10% of our country is without a job, yet the unions & teachers are complaining about not getting raises/bonues/extra benefits? I come from a family of educators (Mom's got a Masters in Ed & home-schooled all of us for at least portions of our childhoods, sister taught 2nd/3rd grade until she had kids & now homeschools all 4 of them, brother & sister in law both high school teachers working in publics schools and a private Christian high school), so I would normally be all about teachers getting extra pay because we all know that they're woefully underpaid. However, in times like these, they should be thankful for the jobs that they have & not be complaining that they want more.

I think SOME teachers complain about being underpaid, not all of them. You are making a sweeping generalization there. And while it’s true that the country is in trouble, it seems that a lot of people who got us into the trouble aren’t going to be the ones who are making the sacrifices to get us “out” of the trouble. Unions are for middle class employees. Not for the rich. I wonder if this whole union issue would even be an issue if the wealthy were part of them.

Teachers have ALWAYS known that lower pay comes with the job. In exchange, the benefits package made up for the low pay. I myself, understand that times are tough but at the same time I know that I am barely making enough to support myself and my two girls, and that is after 20 years of teaching. That doesn’t seem right for someone who has a double degree and 20 years of experience in the field. But that’s just my opinion. I am thankful for my job, but when they ask me to put in more hours without more pay AND pay more for my benefits AND take away some benefits completely……….well it just makes me wonder if the administration is making the same sacrifices. I’m being told that my pension might be used to help get the state out of trouble. That’s very upsetting since a lot of money has come out of my pay for my pension. Actually over 135.00 a pay period. The state puts money into my pension but I put money in too.

Are the legislators making sacrifices too? It seems to me that politicians are busy making the middle class feud with each other so that it takes the attention off of them. I think teachers are being made the villains in all this because they are an easy, convenient target and because the NEA endorsed Democratic candidates. I wonder if this would be happening at all if the Republicans had gotten the endorsements.

Again, just my opinion.............

BTW I'm a registered Independent........

Miss Foxy
03-10-2011, 05:42 PM
Yeah, that really does suck, but it's what happens in a down economy like this. I mean, I don't know the specifics of your job, so maybe your CEOs are really just a bunch of a-holes, but it seems to me that it's better to have to fire some & keep the doors open for the rest as opposed to being "loyal" & possibly going under.
This is what annoys me the most about this whole situation, I think: everyone is faces really tough times right now & 10% of our country is without a job, yet the unions & teachers are complaining about not getting raises/bonues/extra benefits? I come from a family of educators (Mom's got a Masters in Ed & home-schooled all of us for at least portions of our childhoods, sister taught 2nd/3rd grade until she had kids & now homeschools all 4 of them, brother & sister in law both high school teachers working in publics schools and a private Christian high school), so I would normally be all about teachers getting extra pay because we all know that they're woefully underpaid. However, in times like these, they should be thankful for the jobs that they have & not be complaining that they want more.
lol..I work for one of the biggest Health Insurance carriers in the country.. Maybe we outta lower our rates in lieu of paying people minimum wage to do work that ends up getting done wrong.. Either way we are screwed in this economy.

VCURamFan
03-10-2011, 06:52 PM
FYI, I'm picking & choosing what I'm responding to simply because I'm too lazy to read it all & come up with smart retorts for everything! :laugh:


I think SOME teachers complain about being underpaid, not all of them. You are making a sweeping generalization there.Yes & no. What I'm reacting to is the the Union's position which is, by definition, the position of the teachers. I fully aware that there are teachers that disagree with it, but unfortunately, their dues are going into the pockets of people screaming for more money.

And while it’s true that the country is in trouble, it seems that a lot of people who got us into the trouble aren’t going to be the ones who are making the sacrifices to get us “out” of the trouble. . . When they ask me to put in more hours without more pay AND pay more for my benefits AND take away some benefits completely……….well it just makes me wonder if the administration is making the same sacrifices.I agree 100%. It makes no sense that the ones that are responsible for the mess aren't being punished.

Are the legislators making sacrifices too? It seems to me that politicians are busy making the middle class feud with each other so that it takes the attention off of them. There are actually some state legislators, believe it or not, that are sponsoring bills to reduce the size of their Senates/Congresses/etc. in order to take the hit, too. I can't remember which states. but I do remember being impressed that they were finally shouldering some of the the hit.

I think teachers are being made the villains in all this because they are an easy, convenient target and because the NEA endorsed Democratic candidates. I wonder if this would be happening at all if the Republicans had gotten the endorsements.
Here's a stat for you: Union members split nearly50/50 in the last election (I think it was something like 48% D/46.5% R), and yet 93% of union campaign contributions went to Democrats. I think it's pretty obvious that the unions are not properly representing their constituents.

I agree with Mike, the unions need to be reduced & restructured, but not removed.

Buzzard
03-10-2011, 10:38 PM
O, that's really clever what you did there: since I'm from America & I disagree with you, I'm clearly a dumbass. Man, so I'm glad you came trolling into this thread with no other intent than to insult & stir up ••••. How could us poor ignorant fools in the world's greatest nation ever manage to get anything done without your bull••••, passive-aggressive, "I can't logically support my opinions so instead I'll just commit juvenile ad hominem attacks on my opponent's intelligence & character in the vague hope that I can distract people from the topic at hand & feel worthwhile because I made fun of someone on the internet" one liners?

For crying out loud, man, even COUNTYMIKE managed to contribute something worthwhile in this thread!

http://norwegianity.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/files_troll_2.jpg?w=320&h=352

What did you actually bring into this, other than a yes before Logus' reply? I don't think taking a step back is good.

What is your actual experience in the work force VCU? I've worked both union and non-union jobs.

logrus
03-10-2011, 11:34 PM
What did you actually bring into this, other than a yes before Logus' reply? I don't think taking a step back is good.

What is your actual experience in the work force VCU? I've worked both union and non-union jobs.

I only made such a comment because for some odd reason he seemed very pleased with what has happened to the Unions, regardless of who it may effect now, or a year down the line..

KENTUCKYREDBONE
03-11-2011, 12:27 AM
Although I want to research it more I believe they can still collective bargain for their base wage but not their benefits! It also somehow ties their raise in with the rate of inflation! I also can tell you that not ALL Education professionals are that smart or caring! The NEA has such a stranglehold on Education that it needs changed.

DonnaMaria
03-11-2011, 12:41 AM
Although I want to research it more I believe they can still collective bargain for their base wage but not their benefits! It also somehow ties their raise in with the rate of inflation! I also can tell you that not ALL Education professionals are that smart or caring! The NEA has such a stranglehold on Education that it needs changed.

I agree, but sadly you can find that to be true in ALL areas of employment.........

KENTUCKYREDBONE
03-11-2011, 12:52 AM
I agree, but sadly you can find that to be true in ALL areas of employment.........

Unfortunately I have to agree with that! I also believe that the good educators and education in general suffer cause the Unions protect the bad ones. I imagine you know one or two that your ashamed to be associated with!

DonnaMaria
03-11-2011, 02:51 AM
Unfortunately I have to agree with that! I also believe that the good educators and education in general suffer cause the Unions protect the bad ones. I imagine you know one or two that your ashamed to be associated with!

Maybe one or two...........lol

Actually, if administrators did their jobs there wouldn't be bad teachers in schools. Tenure makes it difficult to fire a teacher but not impossible. There are evaluations that need to be done and such but it IS possible to fire a teacher who is not functioning properly or properly educating the children.

Again, I think unions need to be regulated and revamped but I still believe they are needed.

rockdawg21
03-11-2011, 03:14 AM
My favorite part is how the protesters called them "cowards" while supporting the people who ran away to another state in order to avoid conflict. :laugh:
Agreed, I made that same point on one of the many Wisconsin threads:
http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=154569#post154569
Define hypocrisy - the elected officials who ran away from their duties referring to those who stayed and performed their duties as "cowards."