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View Full Version : Russian scholar says U.S. will collapse next year


Hughes_GOAT
03-05-2009, 12:50 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504384,00.html

internationalharvester
03-05-2009, 01:20 AM
that is actually the most absurd idea i have heard in a long time you have to agree with the guy at the end because Russia has been EXTREMELY unstable ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the US has proved it can withstand much worse than what we are looking at right now, besides Obama isnt going to have the balls to institute marshal law and there is no way it would be enforced by officers

medic92
03-05-2009, 01:31 AM
that is actually the most absurd idea i have heard in a long time you have to agree with the guy at the end because Russia has been EXTREMELY unstable ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the US has proved it can withstand much worse than what we are looking at right now, besides Obama isnt going to have the balls to institute marshal law and there is no way it would be enforced by officers

I honestly worry about an armed insurrection by factions in the U.S. Opposition to Obama is growing on a daily basis and I think the most radical of the opposition may very well believe that an armed response against perceived attacks on our Consitution is the only recourse.

Our country has become more and more polarized over the last 20 years or so, to the point that I know of families that don't talk to each other because of political differences. It's only going to get worse as the radical left supports Obama no matter what and the radical right opposes Obama no matter what. It's getting to be a scary time.

NateR
03-05-2009, 02:46 AM
I honestly worry about an armed insurrection by factions in the U.S. Opposition to Obama is growing on a daily basis and I think the most radical of the opposition may very well believe that an armed response against perceived attacks on our Consitution is the only recourse.

Our country has become more and more polarized over the last 20 years or so, to the point that I know of families that don't talk to each other because of political differences. It's only going to get worse as the radical left supports Obama no matter what and the radical right opposes Obama no matter what. It's getting to be a scary time.

I had a Philosophy teacher who told us that the last time Americans were this strongly divided over any moral issues was in the years prior to the Civil War. He said this in 2004 and liberals and conservatives are much more galvanized against each other now.

Chuck
03-05-2009, 03:09 AM
I had a Philosophy teacher who told us that the last time Americans were this strongly divided over any moral issues was in the years prior to the Civil War. He said this in 2004 and liberals and conservatives are much more galvanized against each other now.

I could see our country in another "civil" war... it would be interestng to see how it's decided.... obviously conventional...

Washington and Cali have very large military presence.... but never count out the south!!!

NateR
03-05-2009, 03:24 AM
I could see our country in another "civil" war... it would be interestng to see how it's decided.... obviously conventional...

Washington and Cali have very large military presence.... but never count out the south!!!

Well, I don't think it would start out as a state vs. state war. Besides, a majority of the military is very conservative and votes Republican, they're not going to turn their guns on American citizens to fight for liberal values.

When you swear in to the Army, you're not swearing loyalty to a person or a government official. You are swearing loyalty to the founding principles of the Constitution against all enemies foreign AND domestic. Meaning that if the President is compromising the inalienable rights of American citizens, then he could rightly be considered an enemy of the Constitution and thus an enemy of our military.

Soldiers know that and are not going to just blindly follow orders. The soldier must first determine if the order is lawful or not. If the order is not lawful, then the soldier has no obligation to obey it. Meaning that if the President ordered the Army to illegally search every home in America and confiscate all firearms, regardless of whether they are registered or not, then the military would not have to obey that order, because it's an unlawful order.

If fact, if the federal government did order police and soldiers to go through and confiscate all guns and firearms, then we would see mass desertions of our military and many of our police would simply refuse to enforce the law and resign their positions. This would require the government to call in foreign troops to enforce its authority, but the President who authorizes foreign soldiers to turn their weapons on American citizens would be forever known as one of America's greatest traitors.

VCURamFan
03-05-2009, 03:28 AM
Well, I don't think it would start out as a state vs. state war. Besides, a majority of the military is very conservative and votes Republican, they're not going to turn their guns on American citizens to fight for liberal values.

When you swear in to the Army, you're not swearing loyalty to a person or a government official. You are swearing loyalty to the founding principles of the Constitution against all enemies foreign AND domestic. Meaning that if the President is compromising the inalienable rights of American citizens, then he could rightly be considered an enemy of the Constitution and thus an enemy of our military.

Soldiers know that and are not going to just blindly follow orders. The soldier must first determine if the order is lawful or not. If the order is not lawful, then the soldier has no obligation to obey it. Meaning that if the President ordered the Army to illegally search every home in America and confiscate all firearms, regardless of whether they are registered or not, then the military would not have to obey that order, because it's an unlawful order.

If fact, if the federal government did order police and soldiers to go through and confiscate all guns and firearms, then we would see mass desertions of our military and many of our police would simply refuse to enforce the law and resign their positions. This would require the government to call in foreign troops to enforce its authority, but the President who authorizes foreign soldiers to turn their weapons on American citizens would be forever known as one of America's greatest traitors.Sig worthy!

(Nate, could you expand the character limit so I can fit all this in my sig?:blink::laugh:)

logrus
03-05-2009, 03:31 AM
Outside of their military wasn't Russia just as bad before the fall of Communism as they were after?

Moose
03-05-2009, 03:49 AM
We couldn't collapse. I mean, we may implode, explode, evolve, or slowly crumble, but we're not going to collapse.

rockdawg21
03-05-2009, 03:55 AM
Sig worthy!

(Nate, could you expand the character limit so I can fit all this in my sig?:blink::laugh:)
I just grabbed paragraph #2

internationalharvester
03-05-2009, 05:22 AM
Well, I don't think it would start out as a state vs. state war. Besides, a majority of the military is very conservative and votes Republican, they're not going to turn their guns on American citizens to fight for liberal values.

When you swear in to the Army, you're not swearing loyalty to a person or a government official. You are swearing loyalty to the founding principles of the Constitution against all enemies foreign AND domestic. Meaning that if the President is compromising the inalienable rights of American citizens, then he could rightly be considered an enemy of the Constitution and thus an enemy of our military.

Soldiers know that and are not going to just blindly follow orders. The soldier must first determine if the order is lawful or not. If the order is not lawful, then the soldier has no obligation to obey it. Meaning that if the President ordered the Army to illegally search every home in America and confiscate all firearms, regardless of whether they are registered or not, then the military would not have to obey that order, because it's an unlawful order.

If fact, if the federal government did order police and soldiers to go through and confiscate all guns and firearms, then we would see mass desertions of our military and many of our police would simply refuse to enforce the law and resign their positions. This would require the government to call in foreign troops to enforce its authority, but the President who authorizes foreign soldiers to turn their weapons on American citizens would be forever known as one of America's greatest traitors.

haha Nate thats what I meant to say I just didnt have the words to tell the tale, nice work friend

NateR
03-05-2009, 05:51 AM
I actually wasn't sure how my comments would be received. I'm glad to see that others here understand the true mission of our military forces. Some people make the mistake of just assuming that the military is full of robots who are incapable of thinking for themselves and can only blindly follow orders without question. That couldn't be further from the truth.

For the most part, our military is full of people who truly believe in the phrase "GOD and Country" (notice that GOD comes first) and believe in the principles of liberty that this country was founded on. Liberal politicians looking to turn this nation into a socialist dictatorship have more to fear from our military than the American people do.

Miss Foxy
03-05-2009, 05:56 AM
OMG reading all these posts is there a case of hysteria or paranoia going on?? Come on it don't matter if Mickey Mouse was our president we are not going to have our country fall nor fight within....Seriously lighten up!!:frantics:

NateR
03-05-2009, 06:04 AM
OMG reading all these posts is there a case of hysteria or paranoia going on?? Come on it don't matter if Mickey Mouse was our president we are not going to have our country fall nor fight within....Seriously lighten up!!:frantics:

Well, that's kind of the point of this thread. Some Russian dude says that America will collapse in a year, so we're discussing that.

There's nothing wrong with paying attention to warning signs and preparing for the worst. It keeps you from being taken by surprise.

For instance, anyone who was paying attention to global terrorism throughout the 80s and 90s wasn't surprised by September 11th. In fact, for those who were paying attention to the warning signs, the only surprise about 9/11 was that it didn't happen sooner and that it doesn't happen more frequently.

Miss Foxy
03-05-2009, 06:09 AM
Well, that's kind of the point of this thread. Some Russian dude says that America will collapse in a year, so we're discussing that.

There's nothing wrong with paying attention to warning signs and preparing for the worst. It keeps you from being taken by surprise.

For instance, anyone who was paying attention to global terrorism throughout the 80s and 90s wasn't surprised by September 11th. In fact, for those who were paying attention to the warning signs, the only surprise about 9/11 was that it didn't happen sooner and that it doesn't happen more frequently. I understand the purpose of the thread hun. What I meant is that our Armed Forces aren't going to turn on each other like robots or that our leaders would allow anything like that to happen. I just wanted to be humorous, but I understand some people think different. No disrespect 2 anyone..goodnight...:wub:

Deerstabber
03-05-2009, 01:52 PM
No your right Melissa! The U.S. could never have a war where brother would fight brother! Wait a minute! Oh ya, wait, I think, wait for it! It has happened, remember the CIVIL WAR!!!!!

Chuck
03-05-2009, 01:57 PM
No your right Melissa! The U.S. could never have a war where brother would fight brother! Wait a minute! Oh ya, wait, I think, wait for it! It has happened, remember the CIVIL WAR!!!!!

But that was back then when we were a savage nation based on Biblical principals!!!

We've came sooooo far since then....:Whistle:

mikthehick
03-05-2009, 02:14 PM
The way I see it, we're all going to die anyway.

If I die today or in 80 years, makes no difference. Crap like this, where the majority of America would believe it, is the key to starting mass hysteria. Very surprised they posted it on fox.

Oh well, carry on, i have too much to do than to worry about some idiot whose own country is unstable.

Bonnie
03-05-2009, 04:19 PM
Well, I don't think it would start out as a state vs. state war. Besides, a majority of the military is very conservative and votes Republican, they're not going to turn their guns on American citizens to fight for liberal values.

When you swear in to the Army, you're not swearing loyalty to a person or a government official. You are swearing loyalty to the founding principles of the Constitution against all enemies foreign AND domestic. Meaning that if the President is compromising the inalienable rights of American citizens, then he could rightly be considered an enemy of the Constitution and thus an enemy of our military.

Soldiers know that and are not going to just blindly follow orders. The soldier must first determine if the order is lawful or not. If the order is not lawful, then the soldier has no obligation to obey it. Meaning that if the President ordered the Army to illegally search every home in America and confiscate all firearms, regardless of whether they are registered or not, then the military would not have to obey that order, because it's an unlawful order.

If fact, if the federal government did order police and soldiers to go through and confiscate all guns and firearms, then we would see mass desertions of our military and many of our police would simply refuse to enforce the law and resign their positions. This would require the government to call in foreign troops to enforce its authority, but the President who authorizes foreign soldiers to turn their weapons on American citizens would be forever known as one of America's greatest traitors.

I agree with others that I see Russia collapsing before the U.S would.

Nate, the next (below) is really a ? and then food for thought. :)

I thought that that's what they (the military) want to do when you join up--to break you down, strip you of "self" and "thinking on your own" because they want you to follow orders. :unsure-1:

I'd like to think that if given orders that were "unlawful" soldiers would not proceed or follow through with them. BUT, what if they were given "misinformation" about a situation, in other words, manipulated to act/react by their highter ups. I think history (past and more recent) has shown that people (in high level government) and soldiers will/have committed illegal acts on the orders of their superiors.

Hopefully, nothing like that could/would ever happen on such a scale as to put us in another civil war, but "never say never"... :mellow:

Moose
03-06-2009, 04:17 PM
I agree with others that I see Russia collapsing before the U.S would.



Depends what happens with the Northwest Passage.

http://www.american.edu/ted/ice/northwest-passage.htm

Kind of an easy to read version of what could happen.

NateR
03-06-2009, 05:01 PM
I agree with others that I see Russia collapsing before the U.S would.

Nate, the next (below) is really a ? and then food for thought. :)

I thought that that's what they (the military) want to do when you join up--to break you down, strip you of "self" and "thinking on your own" because they want you to follow orders. :unsure-1:

I'd like to think that if given orders that were "unlawful" soldiers would not proceed or follow through with them. BUT, what if they were given "misinformation" about a situation, in other words, manipulated to act/react by their highter ups. I think history (past and more recent) has shown that people (in high level government) and soldiers will/have committed illegal acts on the orders of their superiors.

Hopefully, nothing like that could/would ever happen on such a scale as to put us in another civil war, but "never say never"... :mellow:

Well, too many ex-Nazis tried to use the "I was just following orders" excuse to shuffle off responsibility for their crimes. So it simply doesn't work that way anymore.

The misinformation aspect of it is a big danger, but the government would have to convincingly lead our military to believe that the American people are somehow misguided and a threat. From my ten years in the Army, I just don't really see that happening, especially not with a liberal administration in the White House.

The Civil War wasn't about soldier versus civilian, it was about state versus state. A majority of the soldiers fighting in that war were militia. In other words, if you give enough civilians guns and a cause, then you end up with a militia.:)

rockdawg21
03-06-2009, 05:08 PM
The Civil War wasn't about soldier versus civilian, it was about state versus state. A majority of the soldiers fighting in that war were militia. In other words, if you give enough civilians guns and a cause, then you end up with a militia.:)
Our newly elected President effectively doubling our deficit (not to mention, failing to keep his promise on "I will go line through line of every bill and remove all earmark spending".) in 6-8 weeks of entering the office could be cause enough.