PDA

View Full Version : Trial now underway for manslaughter charges in death of Charles ‘Mask’ Lewis Jr.


Spiritwalker
12-01-2010, 07:51 PM
Now I always get crap from people when I talk about this type of thing.

Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of another human being with "malice aforethought", and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter).

For the guy that was driving the car that killed Mask.. to be charged with manslaughter.. is sad.. the guy has been popped for DUIs 2 other times.

I don't know that I care if they were racing or not.. (honestly I don't know that they were.. just saw it somewhere on some site)...

I personally see "murder" as murder.. accidental deaths caused by another is still murder.. but shouldn't carry a death penalty.. This guy was over twice the legal limit in NC and driving. As far as I am concerned, this should be a case of 2nd degree murder.. and i wiould have no problem with 1st degree..



http://www.mmamania.com/2010/12/1/1848742/trial-now-underway-for-manslaughter-charges-in-death-of-charles-mask#storyjump

Charles ‘Mask’ Lewis Jr., founder of the popular multi-million dollar MMA clothing line and television show TapouT, was killed on the morning of March 11, 2009, when his Ferrari collided with a Porsche driven by Jeffrey David Kirby of Costa Mesa.

Now, more than 18 months after his passing, the trial for manslaughter charges brought against Kirby has finally begun.

Opening statements were presented yesterday (Nov. 30) in the case against Kirby, who faces a possible sentence of more than 19 years if convicted. Kirby had previous drunken driving convictions (1985, 2002) prior to March 11, and tested at a .13 blood-alcohol level a few hours after the fatal crash.

Toxicology tests performed by the Orange County Coroner following the tragedy came back negative for Lewis, reaffirming the testimony from friends and family that Mask did not drink or take drugs.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/311364/mask-believe.jpg

Chris F
12-01-2010, 08:01 PM
most states do not allow for anything more than manslaughter on car related deaths. MADD has fought for years to make the punishment more sevre, Best thing you can do is make sure your eledted officals understand that this should be a severe crime with a higher punishment. I agree with his history he should be charged with more.

J.B.
12-01-2010, 08:57 PM
and i wiould have no problem with 1st degree..


I think drunk drivers who kill people should definitely go to prison, but 1st degree murder? That implies there was intent and it was pre-planned. I highly doubt the guy planned on killing anybody when he got drunk, especially Mask, considering he didn't even know him. Just saying.

Tyburn
12-01-2010, 09:38 PM
I dont think he deliberately tried to kill Mask.

Therefore it was a horrible accident.

Spiritwalker
12-02-2010, 11:10 AM
I think drunk drivers who kill people should definitely go to prison, but 1st degree murder? That implies there was intent and it was pre-planned. I highly doubt the guy planned on killing anybody when he got drunk, especially Mask, considering he didn't even know him. Just saying.

The intent to me was that this guy wanted to get drunk.. well he bears responsibility for his actions.. granted I am not at the trail so I don't know the details..

but if his actions caused the death of another, well... there you go...

It doesn't mean that he meant to go kill someone, but that doesn't mean he should get a less charge...

Tyburn
12-02-2010, 11:18 AM
The intent to me was that this guy wanted to get drunk.. well he bears responsibility for his actions.. granted I am not at the trail so I don't know the details..

but if his actions caused the death of another, well... there you go...

It doesn't mean that he meant to go kill someone, but that doesn't mean he should get a less charge...

of course his actions caused it...but are you saying intent doesnt matter??? I think intent matters a lot.

Did the guy purposefully decide to kill Mask...if the answer is NO, then its NOT murder...its manslaughter, or accidental death. That doesnt deserve the same as if someone deliberately went out to kill someone.

By being tried for manslaughter he is bearing responsibility...but he's bearing responsiblity for what he did, which is accidently kill someone, not deliberately set out to murder them, these are truely very different things.

Spiritwalker
12-02-2010, 11:24 AM
of course his actions caused it...but are you saying intent doesnt matter??? I think intent matters a lot.

Did the guy purposefully decide to kill Mask...if the answer is NO, then its NOT murder...its manslaughter, or accidental death. That doesnt deserve the same as if someone deliberately went out to kill someone.

By being tried for manslaughter he is bearing responsibility...but he's bearing responsiblity for what he did, which is accidently kill someone, not deliberately set out to murder them, these are truely very different things.



Ask the person that was killed if they think it's any different.

Tyburn
12-02-2010, 11:58 AM
Ask the person that was killed if they think it's any different.

Dont paint Mask out to be completely innocent in all of this.

This wasnt a case of Mask sauntering just below the speed limit, minding his own business when someone pulled out in front of him was it?

He was also very foolish to engage in any kind of street race.m The way its been explained to me, it could easily have been the other way round. Not to mention that either of them could have crashed into other cars or pedestrians.

what he was doing was both negligent, and very dangerously stupid...and whilst the other guy was drunk and had his sense impeeded...what was Mr Lewis' excuse for indulging in that kind of behaviour.

I'm all for the guy being convicted of manslaughter, but I am not about to paint Mask as a saint who was in the wrong place at the wrong time...because thats not true, he sounded like an inspirational character that did a lot of good...but also a typical masculine guy who wasnt going to shy away from dangerous stunts which could...and in the end, did, kill him.

Spiritwalker
12-02-2010, 12:15 PM
Dont paint Mask out to be completely innocent in all of this.

This wasnt a case of Mask sauntering just below the speed limit, minding his own business when someone pulled out in front of him was it?

He was also very foolish to engage in any kind of street race.m The way its been explained to me, it could easily have been the other way round. Not to mention that either of them could have crashed into other cars or pedestrians.

what he was doing was both negligent, and very dangerously stupid...and whilst the other guy was drunk and had his sense impeeded...what was Mr Lewis' excuse for indulging in that kind of behaviour.

I'm all for the guy being convicted of manslaughter, but I am not about to paint Mask as a saint who was in the wrong place at the wrong time...because thats not true, he sounded like an inspirational character that did a lot of good...but also a typical masculine guy who wasnt going to shy away from dangerous stunts which could...and in the end, did, kill him.


I haven't painted anyone as anything... when did I even bring it up specifically about him.. other than "I don't care if they were racing or not"..."stay on target.. stay on target...." and since he was killed.. I guess we won't get to ask him what his excuse is for this accident..

I just don't think there needs to be a different term for "manslaughter", criminally negligent homicide, "opps.. I fired a nail gun into someones head"...

It's murder..

J.B.
12-02-2010, 12:46 PM
The intent to me was that this guy wanted to get drunk.. well he bears responsibility for his actions.. granted I am not at the trail so I don't know the details..

but if his actions caused the death of another, well... there you go...

It doesn't mean that he meant to go kill someone, but that doesn't mean he should get a less charge...

Yeah, but you said "First degree" murder. That charge implies that a person's intent was to kill another person. Getting drunk doesn't equate to wanting to commit murder. First degree murder carries a much higher penalty than any other murder charge. Honestly, it's not murder at all. It's manslaughter. Should he be punished? Absolutely. However, killing somebody by driving drunk does not put people in the same class as hardened killers who don't deserve to breath a single bit of oxygen on tax-payers dollars.

Spiritwalker
12-02-2010, 12:55 PM
Yeah, but you said "First degree" murder. That charge implies that a person's intent was to kill another person. Getting drunk doesn't equate to wanting to commit murder. First degree murder carries a much higher penalty than any other murder charge. Honestly, it's not murder at all. It's manslaughter. Should he be punished? Absolutely. However, killing somebody by driving drunk does not put people in the same class as hardened killers who don't deserve to breath a single bit of oxygen on tax-payers dollars.

I agree.. I just don't like calling killing someone anything other than what it is.. which is murder.

But I do think that should someone kill someone while driving drink.. they should face a death penalty punishment..

Find one person that can honestly say.. "I didn't know that drinking and driving is a bad idea.. I didn't know that could happen".. and I would rethink my opinion of drunk drivers..

J.B.
12-02-2010, 01:08 PM
I agree.. I just don't like calling killing someone anything other than what it is.. which is murder.

But I do think that should someone kill someone while driving drink.. they should face a death penalty punishment..

Find one person that can honestly say.. "I didn't know that drinking and driving is a bad idea.. I didn't know that could happen".. and I would rethink my opinion of drunk drivers..

But killing somebody is not always murder. That is a common misconception with the commandment "thou shalt not kill". When that was originally written, it was meant to imply "murder", or the intent in ones heart to kill another.

Nobody can honestly say what you are asking, the fact is alcohol ruins people's judgment. I'm not saying people who drive drunk and kill somebody shouldn't go to prison, but it's not murder and they shouldn't face an instant death penalty. That's sadistic.

Blame the government and society a little bit for creating this alcohol friendly environment too. I doubt Dana White checks people's BAC when they leave a UFC event and get in their cars to drive home. Sure he doesn't pour the booze down their throats, but he sure as hell will plaster a BUD-LIGHT logo on the center of the octagon. People demonize other people who smoke pot or use other drugs, then they get drunk at cook-outs and drive the family home. Or, they use drugs to get their dick hard because they are too old to do it naturally but they still need that "fix".

rearnakedchoke
12-02-2010, 01:32 PM
if they were racing ... then it is the fault of both of them ... but a ferrari racing a porshe isn't smart .. so if they were racing, mask is partially to blame for his own death ...

Spiritwalker
12-02-2010, 01:33 PM
if they were racing ... then it is the fault of both of them ... but a ferrari racing a porshe isn't smart .. so if they were racing, mask is partially to blame for his own death ...

The rumor/theory is that they other guy smacked his car while racing..

rearnakedchoke
12-02-2010, 01:38 PM
The rumor/theory is that they other guy smacked his car while racing..

still, it takes two to tango ... i am not saying that this guy shouldn't be punished, nor that it is okay lewis died, but you can bet the lawyers are going to use this as a mitigating factor in their defense to somehow lessen the wanton and wreckless disregard on the part of their client the defendent ..

Tyburn
12-02-2010, 04:30 PM
criminally negligent homicide, "opps.. I fired a nail gun into someones head"...


:laugh:

I dont really care what its called...but I DO think the sentance should reflect the intent....so No I dont think his killer needs to be sentanced to death...because he didnt kill him deliberatly...but I do think he should go to prison because he did accidently cause someone to die

Tyburn
12-02-2010, 04:35 PM
Find one person that can honestly say.. "I didn't know that drinking and driving is a bad idea.. .

Find one who can honestly say "I didnt know that street racing was a bad idea" :rolleyes:

Its bad to drink and drive, its also bad to race. If you live dangerously, you run the risk of accidental death.

Spiritwalker
12-02-2010, 04:43 PM
:laugh:

I dont really care what its called...but I DO think the sentance should reflect the intent....so No I dont think his killer needs to be sentanced to death...because he didnt kill him deliberatly...but I do think he should go to prison because he did accidently cause someone to die

So if you don't care what it's called.. then what are you arguing for then?

You would read what I said.. in my first post and others.. that's exactly what I am saying.

Murder is Murder

Chuck
12-02-2010, 04:56 PM
So if you don't care what it's called.. then what are you arguing for then?

You would read what I said.. in my first post and others.. that's exactly what I am saying.

Murder is Murder

Yes, murder is murder... but a life taken accidentally is not. Not all death is murder. The DA's office had the opportunity to file a vehicular homicide charge against the man but because Charles played a role in his own death through his negligent driving manslaughter is the appropriate charge.

Tyburn
12-02-2010, 05:28 PM
So if you don't care what it's called.. then what are you arguing for then?

You would read what I said.. in my first post and others.. that's exactly what I am saying.

Murder is Murder

I dont accept that...because your logical follow on is...Murder equates to the death sentance...therefore you basically saying if anyone gets killed because of anyone else, then that person should die also.

That is not something I ascribe to.

Therefore I have to distinguish between Murders...and the reason I do this using different words is because Murder carries with it the pragmatism that the killing was deliberate.

Obviously, in the case of Mask, thats not true...the guy did not wake up, decide he would kill someone, find a target, plan a means to kill, and then activate that plan.

You cant murder by accident. Thats why it needs a different name...now you can call it whatever other name you like...but the point is, accidental death is different because of lack of intent...and therefore the punishment must be different.

Even if you dissagree...do you follow the logic of why I dont use the word "Murder" to describe any death which lacks intent by the killer?

Spiritwalker
12-09-2010, 02:00 PM
Even if you dissagree...do you follow the logic of why I dont use the word "Murder" to describe any death which lacks intent by the killer?

No

Spiritwalker
12-09-2010, 02:03 PM
A jury of seven women and five men deliberated for about six hours before finding Jeffrey David Kirby guilty of one count of vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence while intoxicated, plus a sentencing enhancement for causing great bodily injury to a second victim.

Kirby, 53, now faces a potential sentence Feb. 4 of as many as 13 years in prison from Superior Court Judge Richard F. Toohey.

The jury acquitted him of a penalty enhancement that he fled the scene of an accident, which potentially saved him an additional five years in prison.



The releases states Kirby was speeding his 1977 Porsche alongside Lewis' 2004 Ferrari in the wee hours of March 11, 2009, when he lost control of his car and hit Lewis. Lewis' car crashed into a cement light pole and was torn in half.

Kirby briefly stopped his car but then fled the scene. A Newport Beach Police officer witnessed the crash and called officers to the scene, where Lewis was pronounced dead. His girlfriend, Lacy Lynn White, who was also in the car at the time of the accident, was seriously injured after being ejected from the car during the crash.

A Newport Beach Police officer apprehended Kirby and a female companion, Lynn Marie Nabozny, after they were caught fleeing the Porsche in a nearby parking lot. The officer said Kirby appeared to be under the influence of alcohol.

Kirby had a blood-alcohol level of .13 percent two hours after the crash, according to the release. Nabozny was arrested for public intoxication and later released.

County Mike
12-09-2010, 02:12 PM
Kirby had a blood-alcohol level of .13 percent two hours after the crash, according to the release. Nabozny was arrested for public intoxication and later released.

Lightweight. I was once .28 the day after a party. (One of the very rare times I over indulged.)

Spiritwalker
12-09-2010, 02:13 PM
Lightweight. I was once .28 the day after a party. (One of the very rare times I over indulged.)

Would you have driven?

County Mike
12-09-2010, 02:27 PM
Would you have driven?

Heck no. I couldn't even walk straight.

Tyburn
12-09-2010, 08:12 PM
No

nevermind :)

Spiritwalker
12-10-2010, 02:41 AM
nevermind :)

I never do .. with some..

Spiritwalker
12-10-2010, 02:43 AM
Heck no. I couldn't even walk straight.

At least your honest... I have "my nights' of boozing.... but I have never driven drunk... IMO.. that's loading a gun... and pointing it..

J.B.
12-10-2010, 03:18 AM
At least your honest... I have "my nights' of boozing.... but I have never driven drunk... IMO.. that's loading a gun... and pointing it..

Great analogy. I totally agree.

Besides the whole fact of possibly killing somebody else or yourself in the process, which is obviously the most important factor, I've never understood how somebody could be so drunk that they wouldn't understand how much money it costs to deal with a DUI.

Driving drunk is just stupid. Hell, driving on cold medication is stupid. I won't even lie, there were times when I was much younger that I got behind the wheel when I KNOW I shouldn't have. Then I had to bury some of my friends and watch others get locked up in the legal system for DUI's. That slapped the stupid out of me pretty damn quick.

Bonnie
12-10-2010, 05:54 AM
Whatever he ends up getting, he probably won't serve half of it before getting released. :wink: And then they aquitted him of fleeing the scene--don't understand that!

J.B.
12-10-2010, 06:02 AM
Whatever he ends up getting, he probably won't serve half of it before getting released. :wink: And then they aquitted him of fleeing the scene--don't understand that!

Why does that happen though Bonnie? :wink:

Why do our prison systems NEED to release prisoners "early"? :ninja:

Bonnie
12-10-2010, 06:44 AM
Why does that happen though Bonnie? :wink:

Why do our prison systems NEED to release prisoners "early"? :ninja:

Well we could probably list quite a few reasons, but I'll put a big one out there that hopefully won't derail this thread too much:

lack of the death penalty

J.B.
12-10-2010, 06:57 AM
Well we could probably list quite a few reasons, but I'll put a big one out there that hopefully won't derail this thread too much:

lack of the death penalty

I was going to say that our prisons' release people because they ultimately need to make room for the next guy....(and I don't doubt I'm right...)

Death penalty is awesome, and not enforced harshly enough under the JB standard, however the JB standard is hardly the recommended solution for society. JB is likely to stab anybody he considers a "threat" and his list of exceptions is definitely NOT one that meets government standards. :)

County Mike
12-10-2010, 11:17 AM
Early release is an incentive to behave while in prison. It helps maintain some order.

Spiritwalker
12-10-2010, 11:57 AM
Early release is an incentive to behave while in prison. It helps maintain some order.

So does whips.. making big rocks into little rocks... and many other things.. I do not belive in real "rehabilitation".. with the way our systems works.. If you go to a prison (not a jail)... You have already had your "slap on the wrist".. your stern warning.. and such..

Are there people that do stupid things.. once.. and never do it again?... Of course..

But this guy is now on his 3rd DUI... no 4th chance..

County Mike
12-10-2010, 12:23 PM
So does whips.. making big rocks into little rocks... and many other things..

Tell that to the guards who have to work there. The threat of a riot becomes greater when there's no incentive to behave other than more hard labor. I'm not saying it's ideal. I'm just pointing out the real need for something to help maintain order inside the prison. The prisoners who have a shot at early release are less likely to act up against the guards. They also tend to cooperate by giving info on which prisoners have weapons, drugs, etc.

Spiritwalker
12-10-2010, 12:35 PM
Tell that to the guards who have to work there. The threat of a riot becomes greater when there's no incentive to behave other than more hard labor. I'm not saying it's ideal. I'm just pointing out the real need for something to help maintain order inside the prison. The prisoners who have a shot at early release are less likely to act up against the guards. They also tend to cooperate by giving info on which prisoners have weapons, drugs, etc.

My sisters husband is a guard at a big prison in Texas...

You know what stops a riot.. Guns. A bunch of guards.. on top of a wall.. with high powered weapons pointed down... If you don't want guns....

Bean bag rifles.. water cannons.. mace bombs.. electric floors with metal bottom shoes... no socks...

Now I am talking about the "hardend felon".. not the guy that got busted for somking some weed once when he was 15...

Prison shouldn't be "let's behave and get out early"..

To maintain oder.. you control their lives... Ever driven by a jail and see the inmates "just hanging"... put them in school.. have them learn a trade.. something other than playing basketball, lifting weights.. and hanging out... The only time an inamte shoudn't have their day dictated to them is the while they are asleep.

County Mike
12-10-2010, 12:54 PM
I don't disagree on how it SHOULD be. However, the liberals want to throw fits about the prisoner's RIGHTS and the force the jails to give in. That puts the guards in danger because they can't just shoot into a rioting mob to calm it down. Doing so would cost them their jobs. Every good method of control has been taken away from the guards so they're reduced to offering something for good behaviour instead.

It sucks, but that's how it is.

Chuck
12-10-2010, 01:12 PM
Well we could probably list quite a few reasons, but I'll put a big one out there that hopefully won't derail this thread too much:

lack of the death penalty

The death penalty exists in many states but they still have over crowding. Our prisons and justice system in general is in need of a major overhaul. I doubt it will ever happen, but it needs to.

The guards aren't given the tools or the ability to do their jobs successfully. They face the worst of the worst on a daily basis and often times end up dirty themselves. It's a rough job, I wouldn't want it that's for sure.

J.B.
12-10-2010, 01:17 PM
Now I am talking about the "hardend felon".. not the guy that got busted for somking some weed once when he was 15...


I agree, but the problem is that our prison system sees NO problem in mixing pot-heads with child-rapists.

Personally, I think if you commit a sexual act on a child you should be shot in the face in front of the public (I don't care how crazy or how much like Islam that sounds). I find it absolutely disgusting that we pay tax dollars to feed and house these disgusting f***s and waste good oxygen in the process. I would clip em' all.

Spiritwalker
12-10-2010, 01:25 PM
I agree, but the problem is that our prison system sees NO problem in mixing pot-heads with child-rapists.

Personally, I think if you commit a sexual act on a child you should be shot in the face in front of the public (I don't care how crazy or how much like Islam that sounds). I find it absolutely disgusting that we pay tax dollars to feed and house these disgusting f***s and waste good oxygen in the process. I would clip em' all.

See.. that would have a double effect if we did it my way....

TELEVISE it!.. Then send the tapes to Iran, Iraq, The Taliban, Korea, China...

And tell them.. "See.. this is what we do on a monthly basis.."

I don't belive in the electric chair... I belive in the electric bench..you can fit more on... I don't belive in the "on/off" switch.. I belive in using a dail.. to bring up the power...

Think Law Abiding Citizen... without the "insane" parts...

J.B.
12-10-2010, 01:30 PM
See.. that would have a double effect if we did it my way....

TELEVISE it!.. Then send the tapes to Iran, Iraq, The Taliban, Korea, China...

And tell them.. "See.. this is what we do on a monthly basis.."

I don't belive in the electric chair... I belive in the electric bench..you can fit more on... I don't belive in the "on/off" switch.. I belive in using a dail.. to bring up the power...

Think Law Abiding Citizen... without the "insane" parts...

I like your way. :laugh:

Bonnie
12-11-2010, 02:32 AM
I was going to say that our prisons' release people because they ultimately need to make room for the next guy....(and I don't doubt I'm right...)

Death penalty is awesome, and not enforced harshly enough under the JB standard, however the JB standard is hardly the recommended solution for society. JB is likely to stab anybody he considers a "threat" and his list of exceptions is definitely NOT one that meets government standards. :)

The death penalty exists in many states but they still have over crowding. Our prisons and justice system in general is in need of a major overhaul. I doubt it will ever happen, but it needs to.

The guards aren't given the tools or the ability to do their jobs successfully. They face the worst of the worst on a daily basis and often times end up dirty themselves. It's a rough job, I wouldn't want it that's for sure.

I agree our justice system and prison systems need to be overhauled. There are better more creative ways to handle those who commit non-violent offenses and also for those who are in for murder, but would be considered a one-time offender and not a threat to the rest of society.

I think prisoners should have to work for their living and their recreation. If they want to eat, to have tv and gym privileges they should have to work and pay for it just like we do. I don't mind them being educated and learning a vocation while in prison, but they should have to work for that too just like we do. Don't give them the time or opportunity to start trouble, be in a prison gang, etc...

They talk about how bad our infrastructure systems are across this country, roads, bridges, dams, tunnels, etc... We've got laborers at our fingertips, we just need to utilize them.

For those prisoners who cannot be rehabilitated and put in a work program or with the general prison population, leave them to themselves in solitary until they expire. As far as pedaphiles go, there is no rehabilitation. What's wrong with them cannot be fixed by prison; they should be put to death.

Max
12-11-2010, 07:56 AM
I dont think it really matters what the guy is charged with, if convicted he could face 19 years in jail. Does not matter if they charge him with murder, manslaughter or simple speeding 19 years in jail in 19 years in jail.

Neezar
12-11-2010, 03:18 PM
I agree our justice system and prison systems need to be overhauled. There are better more creative ways to handle those who commit non-violent offenses and also for those who are in for murder, but would be considered a one-time offender and not a threat to the rest of society.

I think prisoners should have to work for their living and their recreation. If they want to eat, to have tv and gym privileges they should have to work and pay for it just like we do. I don't mind them being educated and learning a vocation while in prison, but they should have to work for that too just like we do. Don't give them the time or opportunity to start trouble, be in a prison gang, etc...

They talk about how bad our infrastructure systems are across this country, roads, bridges, dams, tunnels, etc... We've got laborers at our fingertips, we just need to utilize them.

For those prisoners who cannot be rehabilitated and put in a work program or with the general prison population, leave them to themselves in solitary until they expire. As far as pedaphiles go, there is no rehabilitation. What's wrong with them cannot be fixed by prison; they should be put to death.

They can farm and eat what they need and sell the rest for room and board, cigs, and cable.