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JavierDLC
11-28-2010, 06:57 PM
J.B did you catch this fight? Marquez looked very good in my opinion stopping Katsidis in the 9th. Although it kind of pisses me off that he has gotten dropped by that same punch many times now.

I would love to see the 3rd fight with Pacquiao.

Hey, maybe this time Manny will actually win LOL.

Yes I'm one of the ones who thinks Marquez did enough to edge out the Victory :) in both fights.

J.B.
11-29-2010, 02:37 AM
I am actually disappointed because I was planning on watching both this card and the Froch/Abraham fight, and then I ended up missing both of them.

I will be checking it out tonight or tomorrow, but I heard Marquez fought like a warrior again. He's a tough guy, but Katsidis doesn't have nearly the pop in his shots that Manny has. I think Manny would probably finish JMM this time, although I know that is tall order because nobody has been able to do it, including Pacquiao, but nothing would surprise me in that fight unless Marquez came out and stopped Manny.

Marquez has been a tough style matchup for Pacquiao in their previous fights, but this is a different time and Freddie Roach has already taken a play right out of the Mayweather playbook by insisting that any fight with Marquez will only take place at 147. Given that JMM came in at 135 against Katsidis, that has a lot of fans crying foul and calling for a 3rd fight at 140. Marquez wasted no time in responding to Roach by saying that 147 was fine with him, but after the drubbing Mayweather laid on him last year, I have a feeling he's biting off more than he can chew by stepping up again in weight.

Typically, it's expected from the fans after a good night of fights to hear the last guy who wins get propped up for a shot against the best. Last week it was Sergio Martinez, this week it's Marquez, and even Andre Berto to some degree. Honestly, I don't know what Arum and Manny are planning now, because they really could go either a multitude of ways.

Providing a fight with Floyd DOESN'T happen this Spring, I would still guess that Shane Mosley is Manny's next fight. What's funny is, as I was typing that last sentence, I decided to check out boxingscene and low and behold, Arum has spoken...

“I don't worry about who the bloggers think is the best opponent,” Arum said by telephone from Las vegas Sunday night. “I really don't care the writers say or even what the hardcore boxing followers say when it comes to this. I know we need to pick the opponent who is the most familiar to to the casual sports fan, the casual boxing fan who cannot name all the fighters.

“I did not watch the (Juan Manuel) Marquez fight as I was at a dinner party here in town. One guy there asked who was fighting on TV and somebody said, 'Juan Manuel...' So the guy says to me, 'How come you're not there at the fight, isn't he one of your fighters?' Obviously, this guy didn't know the difference between Marquez and my guy, Juan Manuel Lopez, the kid from Puerto Rico.

“It's not about Marquez's boxing ability, blah, blah, blah, it is all about the marketing of the fight.”

If you're reading between the lines here, then either Arum is already angling to knock down the Mexican counterpuncher's asking price for the trilogy bout against Megamanny or he is, indeed, more inclined to make the April or May bout with American Sugar Shane Mosley.

Ahh, that's the Arum we know so well. Blatantly telling us as fans that he could care less about our views on the integrity of the sport, and that's it's all about what is marketable. Well, at least he is actually being honest, but then again anytime Bob Arum has convinced you he is telling the truth, he is usually lying...so you make the call....:laugh:

Truth is, he knows that both Mosley and Marquez are his biggest draws outside of Floyd so it's gotta be one of those two. If they fight Mosley, the criticism will be much higher than if they fight Marquez, and they have a lot more to lose against Shane.

Mosley is viewed being washed up at this point, but he's still a tough guy with heavy hands who could present problems on the inside. If Shane were to win, it would be a disaster for Pacquiao. On the flipside, Marquez still has the controversial decisions with Manny to lean back on and he has now been propped up again due to his extraordinary ability to recover from big shots. Everybody crapped on Floyd for not finishing Marquez, well as we have seen time and time again throughout Marquez's career, he just keeps coming. Manny couldn't stop him before, and nobody has ever been able to do it.

Floyd was in Miami with Don King over the weekend, and Arum also commented on that...

Todd (DuBoef) tried to reach out to Floyd by phone but contact could not be made. I think Floyd is having another flirtation with (Don) King which is good for me.”

I think there has been some inside talk as to what the real scoop with Floyd is and Arum knows more than he is trying to let on. He and King have zero love loss, but they are also old men who know that working together at this stage in their life is much more profitable, and less stressful on their blood-pressure, than bickering over beef from decades past.

Arum is a lawyer, and has connections all over the world. He likely knows what the deal with Floyd's legal issues are, and what he is or is not looking at. The fact that he hasn't just said "screw Mayweather" all together, makes me think he knows the fight is going to happen, and it's just a matter of time. I could be wrong, but that's what I think is going on.

For all we know, Floyd and Bob could have buried the hatchet and decided to drag this out over the last year to create the ultimate reality show. One that we actually think is real, and happening everyday in the press. Then when it finally culminates at the end of 2011, it will be almost the perfect amount of time for it to have festered into being likely the biggest fight in the history of boxing. Next fall will be two whole years since Floyd returned from retirement and fought Marquez, and while we all would have loved to see the Pacquiao/Mayweather fight a long time ago, it still would be the perfect amount of buildup while both guys are still in their prime.

Arum has been doing this for so long, he knows how to make a super-fight, and this is likely the last one of this caliber he will get to promote. I think Bob is going to make this fight happen, but as I have said so many times, when it comes to promoters like Arum, King, and even Dana White you never know what to totally believe, but you always know what is total bulls**t. :wink:

Miss Foxy
11-29-2010, 04:38 PM
I am so sick of Mexican fighters being losers!! Grrr.. Where oh where is my Floyd??:w00t:

J.B.
11-29-2010, 05:47 PM
Where oh where is my Floyd??:w00t:

Hanging with the wrong crowd...

http://media.mlive.com/mayweather_impact/photo/don-king-mayweather-06jpg-836fb07a0f60c6dc_large.jpg

:laugh:

Miss Foxy
11-29-2010, 06:00 PM
Hanging with the wrong crowd...

http://media.mlive.com/mayweather_impact/photo/don-king-mayweather-06jpg-836fb07a0f60c6dc_large.jpg

:laugh:

Now he's starting to piss me off...:mischievous::muttering: It's called "wasted talent."

J.B.
11-29-2010, 06:22 PM
If it gets the fight made, let Arum and King have their last time in the spotlight. Nobody can deny what they have done for the sport as promoters, but in the same respect, they have both been a part of some pretty shady crap over the years. Floyd doesn't need Don King or Golden Boy, there are investors all over the world ready to pony up money to the tune of $100 million dollars to get this fight made, but adding King to the mix is like adding drama because of his long time rivalry with Arum. The deeper this gets, the more contrived it all seems.

JavierDLC
11-30-2010, 03:35 AM
I really Hope Floyd gets to fight Pacquiao soon :cry:

I need for Floyd to prove everyone wrong, Everyone who calls him a chicken, Everyone who hates on him because he has pretty much everything, everyone one who says hes flat footed and has lost a step but above all I cant wait to see what Freddie has to say once Floyd beats Manny :)

If Manny Fights Mosley instead, I really hope Mosley beats him and he never gets a chance to Fight Floyd. :) I know there's a slim chance of Mosley beating Pacquiao but o well :Whistle:

If that happens then Mayweather vs Martinez would be awesome!

http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab310/JavierDLC/resized_fmjsergio1.jpg

Miss Foxy
11-30-2010, 04:36 PM
I really Hope Floyd gets to fight Pacquiao soon :cry:

I need for Floyd to prove everyone wrong, Everyone who calls him a chicken, Everyone who hates on him because he has pretty much everything, everyone one who says hes flat footed and has lost a step but above all I cant wait to see what Freddie has to say once Floyd beats Manny :)If Manny Fights Mosley instead, I really hope Mosley beats him and he never gets a chance to Fight Floyd. :) I know there's a slim chance of Mosley beating Pacquiao but o well :Whistle:

If that happens then Mayweather vs Martinez would be awesome!

http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab310/JavierDLC/resized_fmjsergio1.jpg
True!! True!! Now we need to just get him away from Don King!! lol!!

rockdawg21
11-30-2010, 06:52 PM
J.B did you catch this fight? Marquez looked very good in my opinion stopping Katsidis in the 9th. Although it kind of pisses me off that he has gotten dropped by that same punch many times now.

I would love to see the 3rd fight with Pacquiao.

Hey, maybe this time Manny will actually win LOL.

Yes I'm one of the ones who thinks Marquez did enough to edge out the Victory :) in both fights.
Show me the record book that states Manny did not win.

Miss Foxy
11-30-2010, 06:57 PM
Show me the record book that states Manny did not win.

Hey pelioņero I think Javier was just being sarcastic..:wink:

rockdawg21
11-30-2010, 07:06 PM
Another difference with Pac fighting Marquez even at 140 would be that at Unfinished Business (Pac/JMM III) Pac fought at 130 and weighed 144 on fight night. Cutting 10% of his weight is a big deal which is one reason he went to 135 and also the reason after fighting Erik Morales that he decided to move up because the weight cutting was making it harder for him to fight at a high level. Had the fight been 135 or 140, Pac would have handled JMM much easier.

Anywhere above 140, JMM is going to get pummeled by Pac.

Pac would kill Mosley too.

Berto would probably be the most interesting fight because Berto would try to bring it, but he would get KOed too. Floyd is the only fight out there, but he has women to beat and legal battles to fight for now.

J.B.
11-30-2010, 08:03 PM
Show me the record book that states Manny did not win.

That's fine and dandy, but it isn't like the Silva vs Sonnen match where Sonnen was winning the fight but ultimately tapped out. A LOT of people think Marquez won the rematch and was robbed in the decision.

Don't start making weight excuses for Manny either, especially with all the weight-draining he's done to opponents and catch-weight title fights he has had. Pac had been fighting at 130 for over 3 years when he fought Marquez in the rematch and he already fought him once at 125 when they went to a draw.

Weight isn't the issue, it's Marquez's style. He has always given Manny problems, and he has shown time and time again that he can't be stopped. Personally, I think Pacquiao WOULD stop him today. Marquez is 36 and even though he is tough as nails, I just think Manny has improved too much would hit Juan too much for him to last 12 rounds, let alone get the win. I could be wrong though, and I would love to see another war between these two.

rockdawg21
11-30-2010, 08:20 PM
That's fine and dandy, but it isn't like the Silva vs Sonnen match where Sonnen was winning the fight but ultimately tapped out. A LOT of people think Marquez won the rematch and was robbed in the decision.

Don't start making weight excuses for Manny either, especially with all the weight-draining he's done to opponents and catch-weight title fights he has had. Pac had been fighting at 130 for over 3 years when he fought Marquez in the rematch and he already fought him once at 125 when they went to a draw.

Weight isn't the issue, it's Marquez's style. He has always given Manny problems, and he has shown time and time again that he can't be stopped. Personally, I think Pacquiao WOULD stop him today. Marquez is 36 and even though he is tough as nails, I just think Manny has improved too much would hit Juan too much for him to last 12 rounds, let alone get the win. I could be wrong though, and I would love to see another war between these two.
I see how it can be viewed either way, but the record books show Pac won, so therefore, Marquez didn't win. Just as any fight, if you want to bitch and whine about the decision, then don't let it go to the judges.

I'm not making excuses for Pac, I'm simply saying that Pac would have been more competitive had he not cut 14 pounds, that's just common sense. And yes, Marquez' style is very good for dealing with Pac, that's for sure. It's a combination of both.

I'd love to see them fight too, plus shut Marquez' mouth and all of the people whining over the decision of their last fight. Marquez allowed it to go to the judges so he let them choose his fate. :hissyfit:

J.B.
11-30-2010, 08:36 PM
I see how it can be viewed either way, but the record books show Pac won, so therefore, Marquez didn't win. Just as any fight, if you want to bitch and whine about the decision, then don't let it go to the judges.

I'm not making excuses for Pac, I'm simply saying that Pac would have been more competitive had he not cut 14 pounds, that's just common sense. And yes, Marquez' style is very good for dealing with Pac, that's for sure. It's a combination of both.

I'd love to see them fight too, plus shut Marquez' mouth and all of the people whining over the decision of their last fight. Marquez allowed it to go to the judges so he let them choose his fate. :hissyfit:

I don't agree with the Dana Whiteism - "Never leave it in the hands of the judges".

If that's the case, why even have judges at all? This isn't baseball, where we are so overrun with purists who are concerned about the "human element" of reffing and judging. Judges for athletic commissions are paid with TAX DOLLARS to do their job properly, and to accept such horrible judging without calling it to task, or to just say "that's how it goes", is a disservice to the sport.

Obviously it was a close fight in the rematch, and Pac dropped JMM numerous times early on, but most boxing people felt like Marquez won that fight. Robberies at the hands of the judges are easily one of the biggest problems hurting both MMA and Boxing.

I would be inclined to accept Pac's weight cut as an excuse for his performance had he not been making that weight for 3 years. Hell, he KO'd Erik Morales twice and outboxed Barrera at that weight, and had already fought Marquez once before. I understand that the older a guy gets, the harder the cut becomes, but if Pacquiao fans are going to bring that up, then it's only fair to mention Oscar, Cotto, and Margarito's catch-weights when they fought Manny.

JavierDLC
11-30-2010, 09:01 PM
Yes I'm one of the ones who thinks Marquez did enough to edge out the Victory :) in both fights.


Show me the record book that states Manny did not win.

I think the answer you seek is here.
I think Marquez landed the Harder Shots and was more of the aggressor in the fight. It was a very close fight and The knockdowns made it closer but i still think Marquez edged out the decision! :) That's my Opinion.

JavierDLC
11-30-2010, 09:03 PM
Hey pelioņero I think Javier was just being sarcastic..:wink:

Gracias Senorita Foxy :ashamed: eres muy hamable :)

Miss Foxy
11-30-2010, 09:15 PM
I don't agree with the Dana Whiteism - "Never leave it in the hands of the judges".

If that's the case, why even have judges at all? This isn't baseball, where we are so overrun with purists who are concerned about the "human element" of reffing and judging. Judges for athletic commissions are paid with TAX DOLLARS to do their job properly, and to accept such horrible judging without calling it to task, or to just say "that's how it goes", is a disservice to the sport.

Obviously it was a close fight in the rematch, and Pac dropped JMM numerous times early on, but most boxing people felt like Marquez won that fight. Robberies at the hands of the judges are easily one of the biggest problems hurting both MMA and Boxing.

I would be inclined to accept Pac's weight cut as an excuse for his performance had he not been making that weight for 3 years. Hell, he KO'd Erik Morales twice and outboxed Barrera at that weight, and had already fought Marquez once before. I understand that the older a guy gets, the harder the cut becomes, but if Pacquiao fans are going to bring that up, then it's only fair to mention Oscar, Cotto, and Margarito's catch-weights when they fought Manny.
I love reading when you two fellas debate!! Very entertaining!!

JavierDLC
11-30-2010, 09:17 PM
I see how it can be viewed either way, but the record books show Pac won, so therefore, Marquez didn't win. Just as any fight, if you want to bitch and whine about the decision, then don't let it go to the judges.

I'm not making excuses for Pac, I'm simply saying that Pac would have been more competitive had he not cut 14 pounds, that's just common sense. And yes, Marquez' style is very good for dealing with Pac, that's for sure. It's a combination of both.

I'd love to see them fight too, plus shut Marquez' mouth and all of the people whining over the decision of their last fight. Marquez allowed it to go to the judges so he let them choose his fate. :hissyfit:

I think the only one BITCHING and WHINING here is you! I simply said I felt that Marquez beat Pacquiao both times with the rematch being more decisively.
Pacquiao is a great fighter and I respect him but for all I know he is a Champion in 5 different weight classes and a Catch-weight champion in 3 more weight classes. Honestly how can it be a title fight if the champion has to cut weight to meet the challenger LOL Pathetic!

Now I know styles make fights but Marquez and Mayweather are similar in styles with the difference being Floyd is 100 times better, faster and younger than Marquez.

Im not saying Floyd would stop Pacquiao but I am 100% sure Floyd would beat him decisively.

rockdawg21
11-30-2010, 10:22 PM
I think the only one BITCHING and WHINING here is you! I simply said I felt that Marquez beat Pacquiao both times with the rematch being more decisively.
Pacquiao is a great fighter and I respect him but for all I know he is a Champion in 5 different weight classes and a Catch-weight champion in 3 more weight classes. Honestly how can it be a title fight if the champion has to cut weight to meet the challenger LOL Pathetic!

Now I know styles make fights but Marquez and Mayweather are similar in styles with the difference being Floyd is 100 times better, faster and younger than Marquez.

Im not saying Floyd would stop Pacquiao but I am 100% sure Floyd would beat him decisively.
Nope, just arguing as usual. :laugh:

I love Marquez, but he is being a baby about the decision. Would love to see it a 3rd time, but not at 147. It'd be way more exciting at 140.