PDA

View Full Version : Albert Pike's 3 World Wars


cheachea
11-14-2010, 01:56 AM
Albert Pike was a 33rd degree Mason, apart of the Ku Klux Klan, and a Confederate General. He is buried in Washington DC. He wrote a book called morals and dogma and siad in the book that lucifer was the Illuminator of man kind. In short he was an evil luciferian satanist. Well anyways he wrote a letter to Giusseppe Mazzini in 1871 about a dream he had laying the blue print for all 3 world wars. This is a video describing the letter -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m581aW5AH4M

cheachea
11-14-2010, 02:20 AM
This is another video about it -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvCqt6qXQ-s&feature=related

REMY
11-14-2010, 03:09 AM
There is no proof he was ever a member of the kkk. 15 years after he died a few writers claimed he was...since he was dead he was unable to challenge this.

cheachea
11-14-2010, 03:24 AM
Well, he was a satanist so I wouldn't put it past him.

REMY
11-15-2010, 04:04 AM
Satanist? Lol according to what? There is nothing that supports this except persons opinions. Or are you of the belies that Freemasonry equals satanist? ? Cause f so that would make me a satanist as I am a Freemason ...

Tyburn
11-15-2010, 03:39 PM
Satanist? Lol according to what? There is nothing that supports this except persons opinions. Or are you of the belies that Freemasonry equals satanist? ? Cause f so that would make me a satanist as I am a Freemason ...

I thought Freemasons were not supposed to reveal their identities :huh:

In rural areas Freemasons are harmless, in cities, they are a politicised movement which can be very dangerous and unfair...I wouldnt claim they are Evil, but they havent been considered as a denomination of Christianity (on their own) for about 200 years...now most Freemasons dont even view it as a religion...they just view it as a society of friends, a male brotherhood that helps one another in all aspects (thats what makes them, in a city, quite dangerous) Most would claim to be Christian...but also sight membership of a denomination other then Freemasons.

Course it depends how high up in Freemasonary they go...some of the symbolic rituals of brotherhood are very extreme in their portrayal. I am not a Freemason, but my Step Grandfather was...and after he had died...I might have found his little black book :ninja: I might have read some of it...so I might know more then is wise to divulge :laugh::laugh:

his was a rural lodge, and he wasnt that high in it...but my old boss, at the Cathedral in London...the one who was responsible for stage managing all the problems...he was Grand Master of his Lodge...which is why a lot of good people refused to help me. Alot of the men, whilst sympathetic to my cause were bound by a covernant of Brotherhood to help their own...even at the cost of it being morally wrong.

Many did not actively help him, they simply refused to stand against him. Their help was in turning a blind eye.

GOD knows what horrible stuff happens on whichever Lodge runs the City of Londons financial area...and you can only guess what a Wall Street Lodge might act like. But what they have done through this network of support is what a lot of Secret Societies have done...Get their people into power and influence...Opus Dei (the Catholic alternative, to the protestant Freemasons, whatever they want to claim their origin in ancient times was are just as prolific

Thing is...they really arent supposed to tell people who they are. I remember going door to door in north leeds for st johns ambulance, collecting funds...I knocked on the door of a Lodge Master, and when I asked him for money he said "do you know who I am" and then proceeded to lecture me on the audacity of asking him for money when his Lodge already donates a huge regular sum.

I just told him that I hadnt known who he was, and if he observed Freemasonary properly, then even after asking him, and his polite decline...I still shouldnt have been made aware of his status.

He asked me to leave his property at that point :unsure-1:

:laugh:

REMY
11-15-2010, 07:50 PM
Dave - you're looking into Freemasonry and expecting some big conspiracy and big grand secret. You said alot so my response might jump around a bit.


We aren't supposed to identify ourselves?Dave you are 100percent wrong on that part. Well i've been around Freemasonry my entire life, both my grandfathers were Masons, as was their fathers (my great grandfathers). And 2 of them were 33rd Degrees.

So - to answer your question we have no problem identifying ourselves, which is why almost EVERY Freemason wears a ring, or a tie tack or a watch with our Compass and Square on it, or some other symbol of inportance. Every lodge is listed in the phone book. Most cities with lodges have signs up telling you were the lodge is. Or all you have to do is type the lodges name in google and it'll tell you where it is, how to contact the Lodge, and most times the names of the Officers of the Lodge....so simple answer - yes we can say we are Freemasons. It is true we have sayings we say to one another to identify each other - that's so if a Brother sees my ring he can say the saying, i can say the answer and then we both know we are true Freemasons, and not just wearing a ring...i actually just got a tattoo a few months ago on my bicept of our Cross and Compass about 5" by 3" lol

And on your "religon" issues -Freemasonry is not a religion...far from it. Freemasonry is open to all religons - including Catholic. I have sat in lodge with people of dang near every religion on earth actually haha - including catholics. We have nothign against Catholics - the Catholic Church has something against us - it happened many years ago basically the Pope decided since a member of Freemasonry tell their Priest about Freemasonry and what we do that no Catholic shall partake in it.

It's funny you mentioned your Step-Grandfathers "little black book" as one rule of Freemasonry is nothing is written. So that little black book was actually a un-authorized book that you or anyone else can buy online - heck my grandpa had one too - which i now have! lol And you're right when a non-Mason reads it it would freak them out to read how indepth our Ritual work is - but it needs to be that way - easier to learn. Dave you can find all of our Ritual work on google...including the 33rd degree it'll take you 5secs so don't worry about "how much you know" lol noones coming after you. But know this - you can read our rituals all day long til you have them memorized and you'll have the true meanings totally 180degrees wrong :)

Dave I don't know your entire story of what happened to you with the Cathedrial of London. But I will tell you this - the fact that these people chose to not help you had less to do with the fact that they were Masons then you believe. I know you won't believe it, but it's true. It's funny because i've been to lodges where the Worshipful Master (not grand master) worked for a lodge member. I will tell you this - the Lodge Members knew the Worshipful Master very well, very in depth, they knew him better then they knew you. They probaly had talks with him on the subject, and knew the reasons he made the decisions regarding you. Again - they knew him better then you and knew the details behind the decisions he made regarding your issues. so again - it had less to do with they were Brothers made more to the specifics.

Gotta run - any more questions about Freemasonry let me know :D i'm more than happy to help people understand we're not all cloak and daggers satanists lol.

Oh and i have been a member in both Rural Lodges and City Lodges City Lodges like Philadelphia, Chicago, and Boston

Oh and Dave i remember when i joined Freemasonry a few years back (2007ish) I posted on here and you were quite upset lol

Tyburn
11-15-2010, 10:31 PM
Dave - you're looking into Freemasonry and expecting some big conspiracy and big grand secret. You said alot so my response might jump around a bit.


1) We aren't supposed to identify ourselves?Dave you are 100percent wrong on that part. Well i've been around Freemasonry my entire life, both my grandfathers were Masons, as was their fathers (my great grandfathers). And 2 of them were 33rd Degrees.

So - to answer your question we have no problem identifying ourselves, which is why almost EVERY Freemason wears a ring, or a tie tack or a watch with our Compass and Square on it, or some other symbol of inportance. Every lodge is listed in the phone book. Most cities with lodges have signs up telling you were the lodge is. Or all you have to do is type the lodges name in google and it'll tell you where it is, how to contact the Lodge, and most times the names of the Officers of the Lodge....so simple answer - yes we can say we are Freemasons. It is true we have sayings we say to one another to identify each other - that's so if a Brother sees my ring he can say the saying, i can say the answer and then we both know we are true Freemasons, and not just wearing a ring...i actually just got a tattoo a few months ago on my bicept of our Cross and Compass about 5" by 3" lol

2) And on your "religon" issues -Freemasonry is not a religion...far from it. Freemasonry is open to all religons - including Catholic. I have sat in lodge with people of dang near every religion on earth actually haha - including catholics. We have nothign against Catholics - the Catholic Church has something against us - it happened many years ago basically the Pope decided since a member of Freemasonry tell their Priest about Freemasonry and what we do that no Catholic shall partake in it.

3) It's funny you mentioned your Step-Grandfathers "little black book" as one rule of Freemasonry is nothing is written. So that little black book was actually a un-authorized book that you or anyone else can buy online - heck my grandpa had one too - which i now have! lol And you're right when a non-Mason reads it it would freak them out to read how indepth our Ritual work is - but it needs to be that way - easier to learn. Dave you can find all of our Ritual work on google...including the 33rd degree it'll take you 5secs so don't worry about "how much you know" lol noones coming after you. But know this - you can read our rituals all day long til you have them memorized and you'll have the true meanings totally 180degrees wrong :)

4) Dave I don't know your entire story of what happened to you with the Cathedrial of London. But I will tell you this - the fact that these people chose to not help you had less to do with the fact that they were Masons then you believe. I know you won't believe it, but it's true. It's funny because i've been to lodges where the Worshipful Master (not grand master) worked for a lodge member. I will tell you this - the Lodge Members knew the Worshipful Master very well, very in depth, they knew him better then they knew you. They probaly had talks with him on the subject, and knew the reasons he made the decisions regarding you. Again - they knew him better then you and knew the details behind the decisions he made regarding your issues. so again - it had less to do with they were Brothers made more to the specifics.

Gotta run - any more questions about Freemasonry let me know :D i'm more than happy to help people understand we're not all cloak and daggers satanists lol.

5) Oh and i have been a member in both Rural Lodges and City Lodges City Lodges like Philadelphia, Chicago, and Boston

Oh and Dave i remember when i joined Freemasonry a few years back (2007ish) I posted on here and you were quite upset lol
1) The Rural Freemasons are like that, but the City ones in England still hide their identity. They recognise each other by a funny shake of the hand. The Rural Towns have "masonic halls" where the Lodge meets...but the Cities dont appear to do that often. The more political and powerful, the more they seem to hide their identity.

2) It was. Well, that is to say it was a denomination of Christianity that was tollerated for maybe the first hundred or so years after the Reformation. It was tollerated because it was heavily involved in the Philanthropy movement. It was a denomination because it spoke about a "Great Architect" It was squashed between Deism, and Christianity. Now in the last Hundred years, its largely become acceptable mearly as a philosophical outlook, held by some Christians who are members of recognised denominations.

The Founders of America were Free Masons, and at that time it was accepted as a denomination of Christianity within its own right. Lots of people want to diminish it to deism, so they can pretend that America isnt Christianity specific. But in its original context it was, and thus should still be considered so.

3) thats a relief :laugh: He had a brief case with all kinds of stuff in it...I didnt look inside, because before I could get to it I was interupted when I was looking through draws I shouldnt have been, and reading from that little black book :ninja: My Nan told me she burned the briefcase and everything in it. :laugh: I think that was a little over the top...but she didnt like him being a mason I dont think...but he was elderly, doddery, and part of a Rural lodge which was probably harmless.

4) He simply didnt like me. There was no other reason. I think it was because I was the replacement for a person he got on really well with. He was a bad person though. He told one of the other Juniors on the staff who wanted a career in Verging, that if he didnt join the masons, he would not progress. Further more, this network, to this day keeps me out of Cathedrals. Its unaviodable, because whenever I apply, they check the references, and they lead right back to him. He was my line manager. Cathedrals, like York, that were interested in me, dropped me, without warning, or reason, like a hot coal. Heck, a little phonecall ahead of my initial interview at the time, scuppered my original plan to move their. Like I say...in a Rural setting they are harmless...but as soon as you mix this Brotherhood with power, or money, or status, it becomes a force to be reckoned with. Like I also said...they are not the only ones, Opus Dei is probably just as bad...I just dont have any knowledge of having dealt with them.

5) can you honnestly say that certain Masons wont use their power, to their advantage in a city setting. I bet whichever New York Lodge covers Wall Street is a sight to behold...Your Government doesnt regulate your banks...are you telling me they each act as independants without supporting each other. Shall we find out the names of the Banker Chiefs, and match them with lists of Masons :ninja: Are you telling me that these institutions, just happened to play the same greedy game at the same time, in perfect unison, without some sort of over all aggreement or control?

Now I'm NOT saying its the Free Masons...but there are any number of secret societies who might wish to make banking policy to suit their needs, and it helps to be networked.

You can at least see my logic...no :huh:

cheachea
11-16-2010, 02:13 AM
I'm not saying you are a satanist but I am saying Albert Pike was. He wrote it in his Book Morals and Dogma and you can research it for your self. Pike identifies Lucifer as the source of Freemasonry's spiritual light. On page 321, Pike boldly states, "Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name given to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light...? Doubt it not!" Even though Pike admits the name Lucifer was given to the Spirit of Darkness, he still states it is Lucifer whom Freemasonry chooses as its spiritual light.

I have some links also :

http://www.cuttingedge.org/free11.html

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/masonry/Albert_Pike_-_Morals_and_Dogma.pdf

http://www.whatisfreemasonry.com/

http://www.cuttingedge.org/ce1046.html

REMY
11-16-2010, 04:12 AM
I'm not saying you are a satanist but I am saying Albert Pike was. He wrote it in his Book Morals and Dogma and you can research it for your self. Pike identifies Lucifer as the source of Freemasonry's spiritual light. On page 321, Pike boldly states, "Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name given to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light...? Doubt it not!" Even though Pike admits the name Lucifer was given to the Spirit of Darkness, he still states it is Lucifer whom Freemasonry chooses as its spiritual light.


First a question for you - Have you researched Freemasonry much? if so you'll see several Masonic Schlors spoke of a Lucifarian Path and energies of Lucifer...you'll read why further in my post...

Second - you got the qoute wrong - the actual qoute is "Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!"...Many of your anti-Mason websites will tell you the wrong quote...get a copy of the book and check it yourself...though there are some reprints with the anti-Mason quote in it as well.


Have you honestly read all of Morals and Dogma? the entire thing? I have, and i have a strong feeling you haven't.

You are 100% right, in Morals and Dogma Albert Pike did in deed write those 3 sentances....Three sentences taken from a book of 861 pages with a 216 page index..3 sentances out of thousands...

So You stated "Pike identifies Lucifer as the source of Freemasonry's spiritual light" Yes and no - he identifies it as our Light...we view Light as Education...it is every good Freemasonrys duty to seek out and recieve more light...so not our spiritual light..just our light.

Do you know the exact meaning of the word Lucifer? The real word...not the english but the LATIN word? - Lightbearer.

So to backtrack a bit - Please don't be upset when I say this but you do know the King James Version of the bible is the only version that mentions Lucifer at all? Oh and it only mentions Lucifer once..in the fourteenth chapt. of Isiah. Before you get all worked up know that the "New English Bible" contains mention of Lucifer, for the Bible was publsihed in the late 1960's since in the 1940's represenatives from many churches got together and decided that there were too many mistakes and mis-translations...no mention of lucifer no mention of a dis-obediant Angel plunging into the depths of hell...as there shouldn't be....and Dave just for you - members of the Church of England were there as well :D

Now how did a Latin name...find its way into a Hebrew Manuscript...which was written LONG before the Latin/Roman language even existed?
Well...it is widely accepted among Hebrew Schlors that In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer".
Now why did these scribes use the word Lucifer? well that's because in the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn"...we already covered that Lucifer in Latin translates to Morning Star... even Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16.

basically What i'm trying to say with all that is this : The emphasis here should be on intent. When Albert Pike and other Masonic scholars spoke over a century ago about the "Luciferian path," or the "energies of Lucifer," they were referring to the morning star, the light bearer, the search for light; the very antithesis of dark, satanic evil....that is all nothing more.

As i mentioned before many Masonic Scholarrs used "Lucifer" speaking in this way...and they shouldn't have because from one scholar to another it would make sense...but to the common man people get all uppity.

Now - answer me a question...Have you honestly read all of Morals and Dogma? the entire thing? I have, and i have a strong feeling you haven't.
If you have you would have read in the preface this : "Everyone is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound"

Which is very important...because there are parts of the book that EVERY single Freemason, myself included, on this planet withh reject and dissent...historians as well...if you want examples just ask :D

That was a long one...one last thing - i didn't click on any of your links...i can provide you with 1000's of Anti-Mason websites, just ask me lol. They all say the same things...If you want i can provide you with 1000's of links that will tell you the exact opposite of what you say...one difference is the Pro-Mason sites with have Scholars and Historians to provide proof.

Lastly do you know how this whole deal with Albert Pike being a satanist got started?? A person who's name is Gabriel Jogand-Pagès...though google search Leo Taxil for the anti-Mason stuff....he was expelled from Freemasonry for wrong-doings. And afterword wrote the whole satanist stuff to make the Catholic Church look foolish for going after Freemasons, he later talked about how he made all of the satanist stuff up but the damage is forever done.

REMY
11-16-2010, 04:28 AM
Dave - your turn with me lol

I get what you're saying now as in "hide their identity in Freemasonry" They do this for a very valid reason. There are many Anti-Freemasons in the world, many people will see my wring and say "devil worshipper" or make comments about Masons taking over the world or stupid stuff like that. So they choose to divide their professional and personal lives.
Dave you gotta look at the person for just that the person - yes there are Masons who will hire somone just because they're a Mason and that is wrong! But there are people who will hire people just because they go to church with them or were a part of the same college sorority etc etc etc It's every where in society not just Freemasonry.

And the "Masonry Halls" are called "Lodges", yes there are in your "cities" as wel, just google LONDON Freemasonry Lodges and youll come up with their addresses, i just did it and came up with a TON of them - the United Grand Lodge of England - which is the governing lodge for England Whales and the Channel islands is located at Great Queen Street, London WC2B 5AZ there are 21 lodge rooms in it and lodges have meetings in it. Next time you're in the area you should take a tour, it's open to the public as are ALL Freemason Lodges...all you gotta do is ask you'll probaly be amazed at it's beauty!

And no Dave i'm not going to tell you that Freemasons won't use their power in any setting. Just as YOU wouldn't (or shouldn't) tell me that senior Church members won't use their power in certain settings, or members of colleges won't use their power, or a member of a certain race won't use their position as power to hire others of their race. ...as i said earlier - it's up to the persson to make that bad judgement call. Not ALL Freemasons do this...please do not judge a entire group of people based on a few wrongdoings.

On the religion part Dave we can go back and forth for ages - and i know i'm not going to change your view point, but since we're on the subject of Albert Pike and his book Morals and Dogma on page 161 he states "Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it"

Every single Lodge i've stepped foot in (i've visited many including ones outside of the U.S.) has 2 rules - we do not discuss Religion or Politics while inside the lodge.

cheachea
11-16-2010, 04:54 AM
I have some questions for you. How far have you progressed in masonry ? Are you a born again believer in Jesus Christ and do you believe that Jesus Christ is God ? The sticker they give to you to put on your car is a pentagram. Occultists have openly said that that occultism is mixed into masonry in suggestive ways. You are grossly mistaken about the morning star statement. Jesus Christ is the Morning Star Rev. 22:16. In Isaiah Chapter 14 it talks about the fall of Satan/Lucifer


12 “ How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer,[b] son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:

‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.



The founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith was a mason and so was the founder of the jahovah witness church Charles Taze Russell. What both churches have in common is that they don't believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Both churches are rejected by Christianity. That is why I asked you if you believe if Jesus Christ is God.

Morning star being added to the verse in Isaiah is a satanic lie that has tried to creep into the church to cause confusion. The NIV translates it this way and it disgusts me to my core.

Tyburn
11-16-2010, 11:36 AM
Dave - your turn with me lol

I get what you're saying now as in "hide their identity in Freemasonry" They do this for a very valid reason. There are many Anti-Freemasons in the world, many people will see my wring and say "devil worshipper" or make comments about Masons taking over the world or stupid stuff like that. So they choose to divide their professional and personal lives.
Dave you gotta look at the person for just that the person - yes there are Masons who will hire somone just because they're a Mason and that is wrong! But there are people who will hire people just because they go to church with them or were a part of the same college sorority etc etc etc It's every where in society not just Freemasonry.

And the "Masonry Halls" are called "Lodges", yes there are in your "cities" as wel, just google LONDON Freemasonry Lodges and youll come up with their addresses, i just did it and came up with a TON of them - the United Grand Lodge of England - which is the governing lodge for England Whales and the Channel islands is located at Great Queen Street, London WC2B 5AZ there are 21 lodge rooms in it and lodges have meetings in it. Next time you're in the area you should take a tour, it's open to the public as are ALL Freemason Lodges...all you gotta do is ask you'll probaly be amazed at it's beauty!

And no Dave i'm not going to tell you that Freemasons won't use their power in any setting. Just as YOU wouldn't (or shouldn't) tell me that senior Church members won't use their power in certain settings, or members of colleges won't use their power, or a member of a certain race won't use their position as power to hire others of their race. ...as i said earlier - it's up to the persson to make that bad judgement call. Not ALL Freemasons do this...please do not judge a entire group of people based on a few wrongdoings.

On the religion part Dave we can go back and forth for ages - and i know i'm not going to change your view point, but since we're on the subject of Albert Pike and his book Morals and Dogma on page 161 he states "Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it"

Every single Lodge i've stepped foot in (i've visited many including ones outside of the U.S.) has 2 rules - we do not discuss Religion or Politics while inside the lodge.

Of course the Church do it. Opus Dei is a recognised wing of the Roman Church still. My point is, that any secret society, or Brotherhood can become corrupt with power, wealth, or political influence.

I'm not really Judging Freemasonary, though I wouldnt want to be a part of it, I dont really mind it going on, unless a Mason misuses his power against me. Then I will go to war with him, and his Lodge, and in the past I ultimately won :laugh:

Tyburn
11-16-2010, 11:45 AM
Morning star being added to the verse in Isaiah is a satanic lie that has tried to creep into the church to cause confusion. The NIV translates it this way and it disgusts me to my core.

I wouldnt bet on that.

Lucifer is known as The False Light. Lets not beat about the bush, He is not a big red monster with horns. Everything in the Bible tells us he is one of the Most Beautiful of GOD creation, because before the Fall, he was Second only To GOD (just like Michael is now) whereas Michael is always portrayed more like a Fighter, so possibly less beautiful and sparkly (:laugh:) Lucifer seems to have been made only to radiate GODs own Splendor, he was made Beuatiful as the pinnicle of GOD creation.

He also doesnt work by obvious evil deeds. Thats what makes him dangerous. Tell me...in the Story of the Crucifixition, who does Christ really have to fear? The obviously Evil Pharsees of the day, who openly hate on him, and openly threaten him and have big power....of one of his trusted friends, who is a close confidente, in whom he trusts.

Lucifer works like Judas. Thats the problem...when we fight Evil (his dominions) we need to be careful, because Lucifer himself is probably amoungst our own ranks. What he says is always 99% Truth...which is why people dont think he speaks lies...Did he lie in the Garden of Eden?

No, actually he did not. He just ommitted a key part of the Truth. Its always only the tiniest of twists on the truth...so slight, you can bearly tell the minescule lie which has creeped in.

Anything larger, is just an nice distraction, that may or, probably is not, orchestrated by Lucifer...but sure helps him to sneak that tiny bit closer.

rearnakedchoke
11-16-2010, 03:08 PM
i don't know what to think of freemasons .. their society seems kinda creepy ... just like this video, their rituals seem too odd for me not to think they are into conspiracy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT0WEFs2S90&feature=related

REMY
11-16-2010, 06:51 PM
I have some questions for you. How far have you progressed in masonry ? Are you a born again believer in Jesus Christ and do you believe that Jesus Christ is God ? The sticker they give to you to put on your car is a pentagram. Occultists have openly said that that occultism is mixed into masonry in suggestive ways. You are grossly mistaken about the morning star statement. Jesus Christ is the Morning Star Rev. 22:16. In Isaiah Chapter 14 it talks about the fall of Satan/Lucifer


12 “ How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer,[b] son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:

‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.



The founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith was a mason and so was the founder of the jahovah witness church Charles Taze Russell. What both churches have in common is that they don't believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Both churches are rejected by Christianity. That is why I asked you if you believe if Jesus Christ is God.

Morning star being added to the verse in Isaiah is a satanic lie that has tried to creep into the church to cause confusion. The NIV translates it this way and it disgusts me to my core.

You keep asking me questions and I answer them...backed by both religous and literary scholars...yet you cannot answer my questions why is that?

- Have you ever read Morals and Dogma? How much of Freemasonry do you truely know? are you only reading Anti-Mason sites? how much actually interaction have you had with Masons?

I have progressed quite well/far in Freemasonry. I am a 3rd Degree Master Mason (the highest degree in Freemasonry). And I am quite far in Scottish Rite as well...a kind of sub-category within Freemasonry that goes up to 33 Degrees...though is not "higher" than the 3rd Degree Master Mason in Freemasonry.


I will say this again... Isaiah 14:12 DOES NOT SPEAK about Satan.. The passage in Isaiah 14:12-17 is directed at the downfall of the arrogant Babylonian rulers who took Israel into exile. Don't believe me?? just do a quick search...i'll help you here is a Christian Site...has nothing to do with Freemasonry just Christianity.... speaks directly about that verse in the bible.... http://www.crivoice.org/lucifer.html


On the subject of Joseph Smith...He "founded" the Mormon church in the 1820's and published the Book of Mormon in 1930...he became initiated as a Freemason in 1842...over 10 years later. Oh and the Lodge he became a Freemason at was closed down because they were conferring the degrees wrong and they were believed to using Masonry just to gain attnetion to Mormon issues....even better for you - Navada and Utah refused to allow ANY Mormons into Freemasonry for MANY years...

Now onto Charles Taze Russell - During 1913 in san francisco during a speaking tour of his he gave a discourse at a Masonic Hall and stated ""Although I have never been a Mason" Throughout his ministry he stated that he believed Christian identity is incompatible with Freemasonry, and that Freemasonry, is "grievous evils" and "unclean".
So if he was a Freemason why would he say such thing? Also when you become a Mason your name is written down int he books...the Grand Lodge of his state as stated numerous times he was never a Mason, and has no record of him ever being a Mason...you might speak of certain symbols by his grave or ones that he used..i'm guessing that's what you read on the internet...you do know that the Symbols Freemasonry uses are quite old and out date Freemasonry right? many of the Symbols we use are used in many areas throughout history not connecting to Freemasonry.

I never recieved a pentagram sticker to put on my car!! Man i must have been ripped off!! oh wait are you talking about our Compass and square?? in that case yeah i did get one...though i bought it. And as i said earlier i have it tattooed on my arm as well! and it's on the ring i wear...though it's not a pentagram...it's a compass and square..nothing more...i can sit here all day and tell you all of the secret symbols that people say are in freemasonry...do you know that if you take a dollar bill and connest "M A S O N" on the back of it it makes a pentagram as well?

RearNaked i agree our rituals do seem odd and scary to non-Masons...unless you know the TRUE meanings behind them then they may seam kinda boring and lame...or truely enlighteningly...it's all about the person. I know this - the rituals i went through to get the degrees i have are the SAME EXACT ones that my great Grandfathers and Grandfathers went through, and the same that George Washington and Ben Franklin and tons of other great men went through...that's awesome right there. That hundreds of years later i did the same exact stuff they did.


CheaChea and Tyburn...if you look into ANY group in the world you will find bad people...people who will make that group look bad...it's a given, but you cannot judge the group based on a few people. Heck you talked about the KKK earlier...one of the big things in the KKK is Christianity...does that mean that sense these KKK members are also Christian that all of Christians believe the beliefs of the KKK???

REMY
11-16-2010, 06:55 PM
Oh yeah - you asked about my Religous beliefs....and to be honest with you I am not sure what i fully believe. I didn't grow up in a religous household...i don't think i was even ever baptised...i don't know, i have talked with Dave about this before. I am well learned about Religions because it interests me, though i don't know what my written in stone beliefs are. I am young - in my mid 20's and honestly didn't think much about religion until probaly 3-4 years ago and since then i have read alot about it, and attended numerous churches of different religions and denominations to learn more and to understand more.

I do believe in a Supreme Being, in a higher power, in a god...do i accept Jesus Christ as my lord and savior...i can't say i do and i can't say i don't....i just plainly don't know.

cheachea
11-16-2010, 06:58 PM
Tyburn I'm not saying this in a confrontational way Bro. I'm telling you ,the enemy is always trying to take away the glory from our Lord Jesus Christ and put it on himself. Jesus Christ is God and the devil is a created being. There is no comparison between the two.

cheachea
11-16-2010, 07:07 PM
Remy I think you are spiritually blind(thats not an insult). Aleister Crowley and Manly P Hall were both masons and were very evil occultists/satanists and you can not refute that . I've read all I need to read of Morals and Dogma to know it's from the pit of Hell.

cheachea
11-16-2010, 07:11 PM
The sticker I was talking about is the eastern star that is used for the woman form of masonry.

cheachea
11-16-2010, 07:16 PM
Remy if you ask Jesus Christ to save you, become Lord of your life, and forgive you of your sins then He will fill you with His Holy Spirit and then you will see how evil masonry really is.

REMY
11-16-2010, 08:46 PM
Remy I think you are spiritually blind(thats not an insult). Aleister Crowley and Manly P Hall were both masons and were very evil occultists/satanists and you can not refute that . I've read all I need to read of Morals and Dogma to know it's from the pit of Hell.

I have already admitted that spiritually i am confused...i wouldn't say blind, as if you are blind you are being ignorant to those things. I was say confused and undecided is what I am.

Now - ready for me to Refute your latest findings?
Aleister Crowley Joined what we in Freemasonry call a "Clandestine" Lodge..basically a Fake lodge - a lodge without a official Charter from the United Grand Lodge of England if a Lodge does not have this Charter then they are not a Lodge at all...they are fake they are wannabes. Crowley never stepped foot into a Chartered Masonic Lodge...there were TONS of these clandestine lodges in years past there are still some of these around today. He did was a leader of the O.T.O. which was modeled like and hoped to be associated with Freemasonry though Crowley changed much of that...
So nope not a Mason... Refuted.

Manly P. Hall Freemason? Yep without a doubt...he was initiated in June 1954 and raised Nov. 1954....he wrote many books about freemasonry...between 1920-1950 using books that were available to the public as refrences, having no knowledge of Freemasonry since he was not yet a member. How exactly is he a Satanist?? need some help on that one? was it because he founded the Philosophical Research Society whos mission is: dedicating it to the ensoulment of all arts, sciences, and crafts, and devoted to the one basic purpose of advancing the brotherhood of all that lives, to meet all lovers of wisdom on a common ground." ....very scary and satan like huh? lol

And the Order of the Eastern Star symbol....really - as i said earlier Symbols can be looked at many different ways the 5 point star has been around since 3000 B.C. .....3000 B.C. tha'ts a helluva long time, how many groups do you think use this? heck the Dallas Cowboys have a HUGE pentagram at the 50 yard line ,as they do on their helmets...jerry jones must be a satanist!!


CheaChea you can find evil in anything if you truely want too...question - When Matt (Matt Hughes...owner of this website) makes another post look at what picture is his avatar...it's of John Wayne (the actor)....a Freemason...King William IV (England) was a great Freemason...did things like abolish slavery, get rid of child labor, start giving more $$ to the poor....horrible things huh?
Are you a U.S. Citizen???? If so got some bad news for you because you do know most of our fore-fathers / founders were Freemasons right? Many Many beliefs in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independance are....Masonic....well hell you better go ahead and leave the country then! Good luck finding a country that doesn't have a strong history of Freemasonry...
Oh and if you stay in the U.S. thank the Lord for Freemasonry because if it wasn't for Freemasonry France would have NEVER helped us in the Revolutionary War and you'd still be a subject of England....EVERY historian will tell you with out the French help we would have not even come CLOSE to winning (Dave will stay the same)

What Type of denomination of Church do you go too? let me know so ican provide you a list of Freemasons who were prominment members of that denomination....


Do you have Children? If so you do know if your child...god forbid ever needs treatment for burns or many other issues they'll most likely go to a Freemason hospital where WE will pay the bills if you are unable too. Oh and you can stand in the lobby and curse Masonry while they are treating your Child and a Freemasonry will just smile and say "Your child is fine, we treated them...have a nice day" ...we donate HUNDREDS of Millions of dollars yearly towards charity, and ask for nothing in return.


oh and Dave here's your reason to hate Freemasonry -
CheaChear if you stay in the U.S. thank the Lord for Freemasonry because if it wasn't for Freemasonry France would have NEVER helped us in the Revolutionary War and you'd still be a subject of England....EVERY historian will tell you with out the French help we would have not even come CLOSE to winning (Dave will stay the same). Why did they help - Well America sent Ben Franklin to France to ask for help...why would they do that? oh yeah be cause he was a promiment FREEMASON! As were Many powerful people in France!
Thank the Lord for Freemasonry!

REMY
11-16-2010, 08:48 PM
Remy if you ask Jesus Christ to save you, become Lord of your life, and forgive you of your sins then He will fill you with His Holy Spirit and then you will see how evil masonry really is.

CheaChea....i do hope you know that a person cannot say that and click it happens, they have to truely feel it in there heart..in their Soul, if they do not it's just words.

Though if I did that i'm sure Jesus would give me a good Grip and call me Brother. :D

cheachea
11-17-2010, 04:13 AM
I don't care if you say Aleister Crowley wasn't an "Official" mason. He was a mason and so was Manly p hall .

OK Remy I'm going to give you a direct quote from Manly P. Hall.

"When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. THE SEETHING ENERGIES OF LUCIFER ARE IN HIS HANDS, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare." [Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree, K.T., The Lost Keys of Freemasonry or The Secret of Hiram Abiff , Forward by Reynold E. Blight, 33rd Degree, K.T., Illustrations by J. Augustus Knapp, 32nd Degree, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, Inc., Richmond, Virginia, p. 48;


REMY WAKE UP !!! There is probably nothing I can tell you to change your mind . If you genuinely cry out to the Lord Jesus Christ He will save you and show you the truth.

REMY
11-17-2010, 02:27 PM
I don't care if you say Aleister Crowley wasn't an "Official" mason. He was a mason and so was Manly p hall .

OK Remy I'm going to give you a direct quote from Manly P. Hall.

""

REMY WAKE UP !!! There is probably nothing I can tell you to change your mind . If you genuinely cry out to the Lord Jesus Christ He will save you and show you the truth.


Wow...soooo you do know that i'm the President of the United States, and the King of England right? i mean i'm not officially but i am the president and King! i don't care what you say i am!! .....doesn't make sense at all does it? that's your reasoning behind Aleister Crowley...he had NOTHING at all to do with Freemasonry - him and a group of people got together and decided to call themselves Freemasons because they thought that it would further their personal gains - not to become a Freemason. That's ALL they did was just say "yep we're Freemasons because we say so" ....saying you're a Freemason doesn't make it so you must be made a Freemason in a Chartered Lodge and receive the Degrees correctly.

I've already told you Manly Hall was a Freemason....and?

The qoute you wrote is from a book Mr. Hall wrote called The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, he wrote this book in 1923...when he was 22 years old...he didn't become a Freemason until 20-30 years later, and he didn't become a 33rd Degree Freemason until 1973 at 72 years old.....Why would he write this book? hmmm well it's because in the 1920's Freemasonry was very very popular and he was just starting out as a writer what better way to start out then write about a popular subject. Remember he wasn't a Freemason when he wrote it he was an outsider who knew nothing of our Fraternity.

Yep that qoute you pasted is in the book...i have a copy of the book as well :D it's from the chapter on the Fellowcraft degree and has exactly 0 percent relation to Satan at all...if you read the FULL chapter you would see this but your'e not doing that all you're doing is looking at Anti-Mason sites and copy and pasting and not knowing the information behind it...just because you can use google doesn't mean you know what your'e talking about. I can sit here and write a long paragraph about what that qoute meant but it's not going to help because you're just going to say "it's evil because i say so!" and that is a very ignorant and closed minded. You don't care to hear that Freemasonry is good and not evil.


CheaChea - i've ggone back and re-read all of this thread and this is what i've noticed: You've laid out very crazy statements turning Freemasonry into a witch hunt. I have refuted EVERY SINGLE ONE of your claims (who you found on the internet - you had no personal experiance) with FACTS and supported by Literary and religous experts, mostly non-Mason. You ask me personal questions and i answer them.
When i ask you for information on your beliefs, or personal questions you don't answer them. Why is that? What are YOU hiding, what are YOU afraid of? I am a Freemason - a supposed "secret society" yet i am being 100% open about this "secret society" and my personal beliefs, and you are not....funny how that works.
I see your location is Nashville Tenneesee - many GREAT Masons partook Freemasonry that state like Sam Houston - Pres. Andrew Jackson, Pres. Andrew Johnson, James Polk....some great men
I asked you earlier if you are going to leave the country - because you should. You are currently living in a ENTIRE country whos founding fathers were FREEMASONS (ya know the evil satanists according to you) the bill of rights and the U.S. Constitution are heavily influenced by Freemason beliefs - be cuase the people who wrote them were FREEMASONS. All of this is supported by History Scholars - non Masons as well. Soo what are you doing here - an ENTIRE country foundind by Freemasons with Freemason Beliefs guiding it...so if we are satanists accord to you you shouldn't be living in the country.

So please instead of pulling some other fallacy off of the internet respond to my questions and statements.

Oh and please always remember - if you ever have a child who needs treatment bring them on to that Shriners hospital where they will recieve the BEST treatment...for FREE....pretty evil huh?

REMY
11-17-2010, 02:37 PM
REMY WAKE UP !!! There is probably nothing I can tell you to change your mind . If you genuinely cry out to the Lord Jesus Christ He will save you and show you the truth.

Me wake up? I am awake, remember I am the one here who looks at all issues with an open mind.

though - i'll bite - First you said "just ask the lord Jesus Christ for forgivness and he'll save your soul" now it's "genuinely cry out and he'll save you AND show you the truth!"

which is it? do i ask or cry out? Do you know? becuase if you know EXACTLY what you have to do to be saved then you've accomplished what many many many Religous leaders have tried and failed to do. You don't know what i have to do or you have to do - the bible doesn't say step by step what EXACTLY you have to do - which is why we have so many different religous leaders telling people to do different things.

Remember earlier i said i wasn't baptised - I've been told by several religous leaders that no matter what i do or what i feel i will not be saved because of this fact - and that makes me chuckle. To me it makes no sense that i can cry out to Jesus - or Ask forgiveness which ever it is and genuinely mean it genuinely feel love for Jesus in my heart and it doesn't matter all because i didn't have some water put on my head by a pastor (or whaever they're called in your Denomination).


Ive already told you my religous beliefs - he's another one for you - I am against most organized religion and that's because of what it has become.



Now please go back to my last post and respond to that one and this one. Don't just copy and paste some stupid "you're evil here's proof" from a anti-Mason site - actually respond to MY questions an statements.

Tyburn
11-17-2010, 04:47 PM
Wow...soooo you do know that i'm the President of the United States, and the King of England right?

We dont have a King yet. :mellow:

But you may be a Queen if you wish :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xixgwk3bDNg

Sorry Remy...I couldnt help myself :ashamed:

REMY
11-17-2010, 06:01 PM
We dont have a King yet. :mellow:

But you may be a Queen if you wish :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xixgwk3bDNg

Sorry Remy...I couldnt help myself :ashamed:


And I'd make a damn fine looking queen...I do have some Welsh heritage

Tyburn
11-17-2010, 07:13 PM
And I'd make a damn fine looking queen...I do have some Welsh heritage

:laugh::laugh:

Well Wales is where its at these days. I dont want to side line the conversation...but Wales is the Title of the Heirs at the moment, because the Scot Title is of course with the Queens Husband....now..Here is a funny thing

If a King marries a Woman, she becomes a Queen (or Consort if she's not liked/illigitamate LOL) Now if the Queen marries a man...He cant even become a Prince, much less a King!

So he is reduced to the rank of a Senior Title (that is to say although he IS a Prince, he is almost always refered to by the rank of Duke)...So he is a Duke, He takes Scotland...this means their Children all take Wales. So Prince Harry, Prince William, and Prince Charles are ALL Prince of Wales Technically speaking :laugh:

But here is another problem...with so many different Titles...there are not nearly enough family...so they all have to take several titles...at many different levels...for example, when Charles married Camilla...she got the title Duchess of Cornwall...well...who, I hear you ask, is The Duke of Cornwall?? Well, the Duke of Cornwall and the Prince of Wales, have become the same person...he's been allotted Cornwall as a secondary title :laugh: Oh just to let you know, Dianna, who was also married to Charles, was given the title Princess of Wales...She would have been given the Title Queen, if her Husband became King...Camilla will probably never be Queen, Consort is the best she can hope for, because they didnt even grant her the title Princess of Wales did they. NO ONE LIKES HER

Now Close Family concerns itself with Either Prince/Princess OR Dukes/Dutchess but beyond that, you get the Earls, and even still people with titles "Baron" or "baroness"

But in the main close family, its all Historical. So we Start with The Queen (England) then Duke of Edinborough (Scotland) then Prince of Wales (Wales) Then Duke of York (because of the war of the Roses between the House of York and House of Lancaster) Then Wessex (because Wessex was the Kingdom of the south of England when their were Three Kingdoms, and it is the Wessex Linage that has servived) Then Gloucster and Kent (Goodness knows why :laugh:) After that...its Earl of this, Baron of that..blah, blah, blah

cheachea
11-17-2010, 08:36 PM
Remy The enemy has blinded you of the truth. I'm Not saying that you are evil and I'm not saying that people who join the masons are trying to be evil. I'm saying that masonry is evil and occultic. I know you don't agree and that's ok.
I'm going to give you a Bible verse that explains why you don't see the evil in masonry :

1 Corinthians 2:14 -But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Your logic will not discern spiritual matters. The Holy Spirit is the only One that can reveal this to you. I'm not trying to insult you as a human being, I'm trying to tell you the truth.
You spoke of Masons doing helpful things for children with Shriners Hospital. That's a good thing. I want to make that clear. The video I'm going to show you will bring some light to that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5NPE8CC1Uk


Remy you can try to make a turd look like a rose, but in the end it's still going to be a turd.

cheachea
11-23-2010, 01:46 AM
I just found out some new interesting information. Charles Darwin and his grandfather Ermasmus Darwin were freemasons from Canogate Kilwinning Lodge No. 2 of Edinburgh Scotland.

REMY
11-25-2010, 07:08 PM
Chea I have not been able to respond as i've been out at sea and the Military doesn't like it much when we log into websites, i'm leaving again in the next few days


But, You call me blind yet i have an open mind on everything we have discussed, you on the otherhand take fiction you read on the internet and run with it. You refuse to see any good in a Fraternity that has been around for centuries and helped MILLIONS throughout the world, you ask questions and i answer them honestly. Yet i ask questions and you ignore them, i give factual information and you ignore it....who is the blind one out of us? You will not open your eyes to the factual information i provided so you in fact are the blind one.

There are many reasons why i (and many other people in the world...including people on these here boards) do not believe in organized religion, and people like you are a main reason. You take whatever someone in the church has to say as godly just because it came from inside of a church heh that's funny...there is a reason why the Catholic Church, the Nazi's and the Communists all hated Freemasons...

I want to write more on that subject but i won't, has i have been on these board for...jeez 4 years now i think and don't feel like getting banned over this.

cheachea
11-26-2010, 08:37 PM
Remy I told you that I was not trying to insult you as a human being. Let me say again that I'm not trying to insult you as a human being. I know you will deny this but Masonry is a religion, it is veiled occultism. When I say blind I don't mean intellectually blind I mean spiritually blind as in you don't see the demonically influenced occult side of masonry. The reason why I'm not responding to some of your questions is because I know they are loaded questions with a specific answer. Remy I apologize for upsetting you in any way. I'm trying to tell you the truth. We are not going to agree because you are a mason and it is a family tradition. Remy I'm not a big fan of organized religion either. You don't even have to get involved with organized religion, just cry out Jesus Christ to save you and He will, Just you and the Lord. Ask The Father to fill you with His Holy Spirit and He will direct your path. Just you and the Lord that is all you need.
Remy I know there are alot of christian men who are masons and who mean well. They don't know the dark side, actually I'd say most masons don't know the dark side of masonry or they would have never got into it in the first place.
Remy I have given you quotes from masons like Manly P. Hall and Albert Pike who have point blank referred to Lucifer as the light bearer. I don't know what more proof you need.
Remy I will give you the benefit of the doubt and even say that I don't think the masons originally were trying to be evil hence the good things that they try to do, but I will say that I believe the evil secret societies have infiltrated into the masons and corrupted it. Would you atleast agree with that ?