PDA

View Full Version : NFL-Suspensions for Helmet-to-Helmet Hits


Bonnie
10-19-2010, 06:07 AM
What do you guys think? I think a suspension will have more of an impact than just a fine.

NFL Expected To Announce Suspensions For Helmet To Helmet Hits On Wednesday

1 day ago: Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison (92) hits Cleveland Browns wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi (11) after Massaquoi tried to catch a pass in the second quarter of an NFL football game, Sunday, Oct. 17, 2010, in Pittsburgh. Massaquoi did not catch the ball. (AP Photo/Keith Srakocic) By Jeremy Mauss:

The NFL is expected to announce Wednesday that helmet-to-helmet hits will be punished by suspensions. This rule goes into effect immediately this Sunday.

Oct 18, 2010 - ESPN's Chris Mortensen is reporting that on Wednesday the NFL will make it official that any helmet-to-helmet or vicious hit will result in a suspension. This rule will go into effect starting this Sunday, and will be enforceable even for a first time offenders:

The NFL will announce by Wednesday that, effective this weekend, even first-time offenders face suspension for "devastating hits" and "head shots," according to Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations.

"We can't and won't tolerate what we saw Sunday," Anderson said Monday. "We've got to get the message to players that these devastating hits and head shots will be met with a very necessary higher standard of accountability. We have to dispel the notion that you get one free pass in these egregious or flagrant shots."

Anderson added, "What we saw Sunday was disturbing," referring to a day that was marred by a number of violent hits, with concussions suffered by the Eagles' DeSean Jackson, Falcons' Dunta Robinson, Browns' Josh Cribbs and Mohamed Massaquoi and Redskins' Chris Cooley.

Follow @sbnation on Twitter, and Like SBNation.com on Facebook.

Bonnie
10-19-2010, 06:37 AM
I don't agree with Warren Sapp or Marshall Faulk who says, "...can't take away the entertainment aspect of it." :blink: And Warren, "...we sign up for this..." :unsure: Yes, sometimes things happen with people running fast and tackling, but some of the hits in the video they show, especially Harrison, look pretty deliberate to me. The guy doing the illegal hit is taking a big chance on seriously injuring himself as well as his opponent.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81b6ff26/Dealing-with-the-head-injuries

J.B.
10-19-2010, 06:43 AM
This is very similar to the discussions that have been had recently in regards to safety in Mixed Martial Arts.

At what point are we watering down the booze too much?

I am all for fining and suspending players who intentionally try to injure players. That is dirty and completely unsportsmanlike and there is no place for that in the sport of football or even combat sports. The idea is to win in a fair and competitive match-up, but never to seriously injure an opponent.

However, it's also a fine line because not all of these types of hits are intentionally trying to injure a person, and the fact that guys tackle harder in this era is a natural byproduct of what the NFL has turned into the most popular sport in America. Winning is big business. Winning sells tickets, and if you don't sell tickets, your games get blacked out. Then if your games get blacked out, nobody watches you on Sunday, or buys your merchandise, or cares about your crappy 2-14 team. So how do you win? By creating turnovers when you take a guy who is 6'4 250 pounds and have his SMASH into the guy carrying the ball at full speed so he can knock the ball loose. It's called football.

I also found it weird that in all the talk about this on the radio today, nobody was talking about what happened to Eric Legrand from Rutgers on Saturday. He was making a tackle on a kickoff return and put his head down, and now he is paralyzed from the neck down. Here is the video, and I don't say this to be mean, but notice how when he hits the ground you can see his body seize up like when Tank Abbott knocked out John Matua. These are dangerous sports. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BbNe5Kv56k

Bonnie
10-19-2010, 06:55 AM
This is very similar to the discussions that have been had recently in regards to safety in Mixed Martial Arts.

At what point are we watering down the booze too much?

I am all for fining and suspending players who intentionally try to injure players. That is dirty and completely unsportsmanlike and there is no place for that in the sport of football or even combat sports. The idea is to win in a fair and competitive match-up, but never to seriously injure an opponent.

However, it's also a fine line because not all of these types of hits are intentionally trying to injure a person, and the fact that guys tackle harder in this era is a natural byproduct of what the NFL has turned into the most popular sport in America. Winning is big business. Winning sells tickets, and if you don't sell tickets, your games get blacked out. Then if your games get blacked out, nobody watches you on Sunday, or buys your merchandise, or cares about your crappy 2-14 team. So how do you win? By creating turnovers when you take a guy who is 6'4 250 pounds and have his SMASH into the guy carrying the ball at full speed so he can knock the ball loose. It's called football.

I also found it weird that in all the talk about this on the radio today, nobody was talking about what happened to Eric Legrand from Rutgers on Saturday. He was making a tackle on a kickoff return and put his head down, and now he is paralyzed from the neck down. Here is the video, and I don't say this to be mean, but notice how when he hits the ground you can see his body seize up like when Tank Abbott knocked out John Matua. These are dangerous sports. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BbNe5Kv56k

His head was down but it looked like maybe he was going in with his shoulder also. I saw that this morning when they were talking about how violent this Sunday was in football. That's just terrible! :cry: I was hoping maybe his paralysis was temporary? :unsure-1:

I know it's football and it's hardhitting, but that Harrison and some of the other hits we saw clearly looked like deliberate helmet hits. Like I said in my earlier post above, stuff happens, but when it's deliberate and you paralyze someone, how do you live with that. :unsure:

J.B.
10-19-2010, 07:00 AM
I don't agree with Warren Sapp or Marshall Faulk who says, "...can't take away the entertainment aspect of it." :blink: And Warren, "...we sign up for this..." :unsure: Yes, sometimes things happen with people running fast and tackling, but some of the hits in the video they show, especially Harrison, look pretty deliberate to me. The guy doing the illegal hit is taking a big chance on seriously injuring himself as well as his opponent.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81b6ff26/Dealing-with-the-head-injuries

They are absolutely right though, and that is coming from both sides of the field. Sapp used to lay it on guys as a defensive tackle, and Marshall took his fair share of big hits on the gridiron. That really is the sport of football. We all can agree that some people take it too far at times, and the league already has things in place to deal with that, but if they start suspending guys for every big hit it's going to get out of control.

Bonnie
10-19-2010, 07:09 AM
They are absolutely right though, and that is coming from both sides of the field. Sapp used to lay it on guys as a defensive tackle, and Marshall took his fair share of big hits on the gridiron. That really is the sport of football. We all can agree that some people take it too far at times, and the league already has things in place to deal with that, but if they start suspending guys for every big hit it's going to get out of control.

Just want to clarify what you're saying. They are talking about illegal helmet-to-helmet hits not hard legal hits/tackles. At least that's what I took from the article. How can you look at those two hits Harrison leveled and say that's not illegal? I know Harrison is saying that, but that's not surprising.

J.B.
10-19-2010, 07:14 AM
His head was down but it looked like maybe he was going in with his shoulder also. I saw that this morning when they were talking about how violent this Sunday was in football. That's just terrible! :cry: I was hoping maybe his paralysis was temporary? :unsure-1:

I know it's football and it's hardhitting, but that Harrison and some of the other hits we saw clearly looked like deliberate helmet hits. Like I said in my earlier post above, stuff happens, but when it's deliberate and you paralyze someone, how do you live with that. :unsure:

The same type of spinal injury happened to Kevin Everett of the Bills on a kickoff return in 07, and he was able to walk again miraculously after surgery and therapy. So there is hope for LeGrand.

Nobody would want to live with doing that to somebody unless they were a total scumbag, and the same goes for combat sports like Boxing and MMA. Still, sometimes guys get broken bones or even very serious injuries from things that are a natural part of the sports they are in. I'm all about weeding out the douchebags who try to take out a guys knee over and over, or hit guys way after the play is over, or do things that are otherwise just unreasonably over the top, but suspending guys every time they bump helmets is a little much.

J.B.
10-19-2010, 07:19 AM
Just want to clarify what you're saying. They are talking about illegal helmet-to-helmet hits not hard legal hits/tackles. At least that's what I took from the article. How can you look at those two hits Harrison leveled and say that's not illegal? I know Harrison is saying that, but that's not surprising.

Yes, but look at the original article you posted...


"The NFL will announce by Wednesday that, effective this weekend, even first-time offenders face suspension for "devastating hits" and "head shots," according to Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations."

They are setting a precedent for more than just helmet to helmet hits in this, which is why they also say "devastating hits". This is about going after guys who are intentionally trying to hurt guys or having total disregard for safety, which I totally agree with...

The problem is, when it comes to suspending guys, how will it be implemented?

Bonnie
10-19-2010, 07:28 AM
Yes, but look at the original article you posted...



They are setting a precedent for more than just helmet to helmet hits in this, which is why they also say "devastating hits". This is about going after guys who are intentionally trying to hurt guys or having total disregard for safety, which I totally agree with...

The problem is, when it comes to suspending guys, how will it be implemented?

Okay, I see what you mean. It could become "tricky". I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens...

J.B.
10-19-2010, 07:34 AM
Here is a couple more clips... and just to show I'm not biased, they are both clips of Arizona Cardinals players. :)

Anquan Boldin smashed by the Jets...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9RfJwSkMU8&feature=related

his jaw was smashed and had to be reconstructed, but Boldin is warrior and he was suited up after missing only two games and the Cards went to the Super Bowl that season...


Adrian Wilson smashing Trent Edwards the same season...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjpANEVexhY&feature=related

Edwards suffered a concussion and left on the cart, but returned the next game


I had no problem with either of those hits. Although obviously the Boldin one was very serious and had me scared and praying at the time, but I didn't think either were malicious or anything more than the what the game of football is.

J.B.
10-19-2010, 07:40 AM
Okay, I see what you mean. It could become "tricky". I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens...

A lot of this is a byproduct of how hard they are starting to come down on concussions too. Which is also a good thing, but I think they need to be careful about overreacting to one overly brutal Sunday and writing a check they are ready to see cashed by crippling a handful of teams each week with a plethora of unreasonable suspensions.

Bonnie
10-19-2010, 09:23 AM
I think I heard or read something about how they're going to require at least 24 hours watch for when they think they might have a concussion instead of just eyeballing them for 15 minutes and letting them continue to play if they "seem" okay.

J.B.
10-19-2010, 09:47 AM
I think I heard or read something about how they're going to require at least 24 hours watch for when they think they might have a concussion instead of just eyeballing them for 15 minutes and letting them continue to play if they "seem" okay.

The league has really been pushing hard for guys with concussions to sit out at least one game after getting a hurt. That's what we have been starting to see more and more each season.

logrus
10-19-2010, 02:53 PM
Here is a couple more clips... and just to show I'm not biased, they are both clips of Arizona Cardinals players. :)

Anquan Boldin smashed by the Jets...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9RfJwSkMU8&feature=related

his jaw was smashed and had to be reconstructed, but Boldin is warrior and he was suited up after missing only two games and the Cards went to the Super Bowl that season...


Adrian Wilson smashing Trent Edwards the same season...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjpANEVexhY&feature=related

Edwards suffered a concussion and left on the cart, but returned the next game


I had no problem with either of those hits. Although obviously the Boldin one was very serious and had me scared and praying at the time, but I didn't think either were malicious or anything more than the what the game of football is.

The ones I hate are on the QB, you cant go to swat the ball cause if you brush the head your gonna get a flag. If your the same height as the QB you cant put your arms up to deflect a pass cause if you bump the QB the helmets hit and then your flagged again.

Some helmet ot helmet hits are dirty others are just so iffy it takes away from the game.

rearnakedchoke
10-19-2010, 04:34 PM
The ones I hate are on the QB, you cant go to swat the ball cause if you brush the head your gonna get a flag. If your the same height as the QB you cant put your arms up to deflect a pass cause if you bump the QB the helmets hit and then your flagged again.

Some helmet ot helmet hits are dirty others are just so iffy it takes away from the game.

i agree with that .. there have been many questionable calls ... i know safety is paramount, but treating the QB as iuntouchable in some cases is crazy .... also the kicker ... getting tackled and rolling into the kicker shouldn't result in a roughing the kicker call imo

Bonnie
10-20-2010, 05:50 PM
There is a definite line in the sand as to how people look at this especially the players, but I think the three players fined deserved it. There is a difference between an inadvertent helmet hit which cannot be avoided and a deliberate one. With all the camera angles nowadays, I think they'll be able to distinguish between the two if there is a question; unfortunately, instant replay can't undo a concussion or possibly life changing injury from the kind of hits for which these three players were fined.

There's a video in the link at the end of the article--SI's Don Banks points out the possible implications/complications if there is not a uniform rule across the board that defines "devastating hits" so it's not so subjective. He brings up a lot of valid points...."gray areas"....something I know JB brought up earlier.

NFL fines but doesn't suspend three players for dangerous hits

Story Highlights: James Harrison docked $75K; Brandon Meriweather, Dunta Robinson $50K NFL said it wanted to give players fair warning before suspensions Teams will receive a memo Wednesday about changes in discipline

NEW YORK (AP) -- The NFL imposed huge fines Tuesday on three players for dangerous and flagrant hits last weekend and warned that, starting with this week's games, violent conduct will be cause for suspension.

Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison was docked $75,000 on Tuesday, while New England Patriots safety Brandon Meriweather and Atlanta Falcons cornerback Dunta Robinson will lose $50,000 each.

In the past, players were either fined or ejected for illegal hits. However, after the series of recent flagrant tackles, several of which resulted in concussions, the NFL ramped up the punishment.

Football operations chief Ray Anderson indicated the suspensions could start immediately - that is, involving play from last weekend's games. However, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the league wanted to give teams fair warning and would send a memo Wednesday, outlining the changes.

Ravens tight end Todd Heap took a vicious hit from Meriweather that Heap called "one of those hits that shouldn't happen.'' Robinson and the Eagles' DeSean Jackson were knocked out of their game after a frightening collision in which Robinson launched himself head first to make a tackle. Both sustained concussions.

Harrison was punished for his hit on Mohamed Massaquoi. His hit on Joshua Cribbs did not figure in the fine, although it also caused a concussion; the league said Monday it was permissible.

Harrison's agent, Bill Parise, called the fine "staggering'' and said it would be appealed. He emphasized that neither play drew a penalty.

"I've talked to James, and he's very upset,'' Parise said. "He's quite confused about how to play football.''

The league noted Harrison is a repeat offender; he was fined $5,000 for unnecessary roughness in Pittsburgh's win over Tennessee on Sept. 19.

In letters to the three players, Anderson said: "Future offenses will result in an escalation of fines up to and including suspension.''

Massaquoi's agent, Brian Ayrault, didn't think the league was tough enough on Harrison.

"Harrison has made $20 million over the past three years, and they only fined him $75,000?'' he said. "To me, that's not going to be a deterrent. The Browns are probably going to be without a starter this week. I don't think that fine is a deterrent or fair to competitive balance.

"The punishment did not fit the crime.''

NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith wouldn't directly answer whether the league had consulted with the union before toughening up the penalties, saying simply that he talked to Commissioner Roger Goodell every day.

"We are going to look at this issue along with the league,'' Smith said at an event in St. Paul, Minn. "I am for anything that keeps our players safer. But at the same time, I don't look at everything in a simple microcosm.''

Browns president Mike Holmgren said it was important to have game video reviewed by officials familiar with the nuances of tackling.

"I think most of the time you can look at a play as a coach and say, 'You know what? That didn't have to happen,''' said Holmgren, the former Seattle and Green Bay coach. "And then sometimes you look at a play and say, 'Unavoidable. It was just one of those things.'

"I don't know if they are going to make that distinction yet, and I think it's a very important distinction.''

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin favored stricter enforcement of helmet hits, although he still thought Harrison's tackle on Massaquoi was legal.

"I think we need to safeguard the men that play this game to the best of our abilities and make it as safe as we can,'' he said.

The men being safeguarded didn't necessarily agree. Vikings defensive end Ray Edwards predicted players wouldn't change how they hit.

"If we get fined, we get fined,'' he said. "But the suspension stuff? That's taking it a little too far. I mean, it is football. We all signed up to play this game. Things happen. You can't alter the way you play the game. Sometimes that's how you get touchdowns.''


NFL's headshot wake-up call
Source: SISI.com's Don Banks discusses the increase in devastating hitting and what it could mean to the NFL and it's players. TRT - 02:47.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/10/19/suspensions.ap/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz12ukIbl9f

County Mike
10-20-2010, 06:06 PM
I think the guilty player should server a "+1 suspension". However many games the victim player misses due to injury, the guilty player should miss the same + 1. Which means, if the player isn't hurt enough to miss any games, the guilty player still misses one.

If you end someone's career with a dirty hit, you also end your own.

Bonnie
10-20-2010, 06:37 PM
I think the guilty player should server a "+1 suspension". However many games the victim player misses due to injury, the guilty player should miss the same + 1. Which means, if the player isn't hurt enough to miss any games, the guilty player still misses one.

If you end someone's career with a dirty hit, you also end your own.

I definitely like your idea, Mike. Sounds fair to me.

J.B.
10-20-2010, 07:20 PM
This simply isn't an issue that can be solved with any black and white answers, because there are too many gray areas. Attempts to implement any sort of universal punishment would result in more unfair rulings than anything.

Going after the guys who repeatedly violate the safety policies is one thing, and I think everybody is in favor of that. However, it's also important to note that the term "unnecessary roughness" is very vast. There is a huge difference between giving a guy an extra push or shove for running their mouth than going out and starching guys from their blindside without trying to make a legit play for the ball.

It all boils down to what the league has created. This may be a sport, but just like we all talk about the business side of MMA and selling fights, this is part of the business of the NFL. Defenders get paid BIG money to make BIG plays, and turnovers win football games. Win games, win championships, sell tickets, sell merchandise, that's how it works. They have been playing this game their whole lives to get this point, and they are being taught to play the game this way all way down to the pee-wee leagues. That's how it was when I was a kid, and unless the NFL becomes the NFFL (National Flag Football League) it's always gonna be that way.

This will certainly become an issue after this season when the league sits down with the players association to discuss the next collective bargaining agreement. There are still lingering rumors of a lockout next year, but I also read that they stand to lose about 10 billion dollars from a lockout, so I'm sure they will all come to a peaceful agreement. :rolleyes:

Bonnie
10-20-2010, 07:58 PM
I think like Don Banks mentions, if they are going to do this, they need to make it where the call is less subjective by individuals in different games and make a rule that's uniform for everyone to go by (e.g., one player being called for an illegal hit, but for another player in another game that same type of hit being called fair). Banks said players have always been taught to come in under and drive up, and that the league has discussed changing that making from the shoulders to the knees or above the knees the acceptable target area.

I think like the rule, punishment has to be somewhat uniform. They could look at the individual, if he is a repeat offender, and up the ante.

What is your solution JB? :unsure: If they do nothing, someone like Harrison is eventually going to paralyze someone (maybe himself), or worse...

J.B.
10-20-2010, 08:49 PM
I think like Don Banks mentions, if they are going to do this, they need to make it where the call is less subjective by individuals in different games and make a rule that's uniform for everyone to go by (e.g., one player being called for an illegal hit, but for another player in another game that same type of hit being called fair). Banks said players have always been taught to come in under and drive up, and that the league has discussed changing that making from the shoulders to the knees or above the knees the acceptable target area.

I think like the rule, punishment has to be somewhat uniform. They could look at the individual, if he is a repeat offender, and up the ante.

What is your solution JB? :unsure: If they do nothing, someone like Harrison is eventually going to paralyze someone (maybe himself), or worse...


There is no real solution that is going to stop people from playing the game in a rough and physical manner. They already have "uniform" rules for what is acceptable and what isn't. It's still subject to human judgment, and with that will come errors, no matter what method we use. The refs can get it wrong on the field, and that's why the league reviews plays that are questionable, but even the league makes mistakes. To try and put a rule in place that would suspend any player for a hit that is deemed "devastating" would lead to one of two things...

1. a bunch of teams lose a bunch of players every week.

2. they don't really enforce it universally because of scenario number 1.

Banks is right that players are always taught conventional methods of tackling. That too starts in pee-wee, but he knows damn well that in serious competition players have to make plays if they expect to make it to the highest level. When you got an athletic HB on offense who keeps shredding your defensive line all day, you gotta start putting it on him to get him to cough up that ball or at least knock the wind out of him so he thinks twice about coming into your zone again. When players need to make plays, they are going to throw their bodies out there like sacrificial lambs to make that play. That is just football, and when big guys are running at that speed and plowing into guys with their head down, bad things can and will happen from time to time.

Obviously, we need to be strict on players who repeatedly put others in danger on purpose or are just overly reckless, but what they are talking about right now is way too broad, and that's why hardly anybody agrees with it on the player's side.

Bonnie
10-21-2010, 01:45 AM
I wonder why he's coming out now with a less defiant attitude as opposed to what he said Monday (quoted near bottom of article)....maybe the $50,000 fine? :unsure-1:

Brandon Meriweather apologizes for hits


FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots safety Brandon Meriweather, who was fined $50,000 by the NFL for two helmet-to-helmet hits on Baltimore Ravens tight end Todd Heap in Sunday's win over the Ravens, told reporters in the locker room Wednesday that he was "sorry for the hit" and that he wants to move on.

Meriweather: "Once again, I'm going to say I'm sorry for the hit. I understand the league is trying to protect the health of all our players," Meriweather said before a brief pause in which he might have been fighting to keep emotions in check.

"To be honest, I just want all this to go away. I want to focus, with the rest of my team, on the Chargers and really not let this come up again. I'm going to try my best to play within the rules, like my coach had always taught us. I'm going to hit and play the game like my coaches have always taught us. Even in training camp, we have always been taught the proper way to hit. Just focus on that and try to put it in my game in some way, shape or fashion.

"From here on, I'm focusing on the Chargers. Anything else spoken about this, I will not comment on."

Meriweather was flagged for a second-quarter hit on Heap, who lay on the field being attended to by Ravens medical personnel for several minutes before getting up under his own power. Heap was leaping for a Joe Flacco pass that had sailed over his head when Meriweather thrust himself, helmet-first, into the Ravens tight end.

Reiss: Meriweather has growing up to do

In this week's Patriots mailbag, Mike Reiss writes that he thought Brandon Meriweather's hit was inexcusable. Story

Earlier in the game, Meriweather also hit Heap hard near the goal line. He was not penalized for that hit.

After a weekend full of dangerous hits, the NFL announced Tuesday that it will immediately begin suspending players for dangerous and flagrant hits that violate rules, particularly those involving helmets.

Meriweather had said Monday that his hit on Heap was not intentional and that any punishment handed down by the NFL would not alter his aggressive approach to the game.

"I'm going to be aggressive, point blank," Meriweather said during his weekly interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI. "I won't change my game, period. I'm sorry it happened. Heap is actually a real good friend of mine. I talked to him yesterday and let him know it wasn't intentional and he told me he understood."

Meriweather said he went for the hit because he thought Heap was going to come down with the pass.

"We ran that play a thousand times at practice," Meriweather said. "Every time at practice I broke on the ball and the tight end caught it every time. I thought it was going to be overthrown but the tight end always seemed to go and get it. Instead of me waiting for the ball to see if it was going to be overthrown I just attacked. I wasn't trying for head-to-head contact, or trying to injure anybody, or play dirty in any kind of way. It just happened."

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5707041

Here's an article on Dolphins' Channing Crowder's comments:

[U]Channing Crowder to keep using helmet

Updated: October 20, 2010, 8:41 PM ET - Associated Press

DAVIE, Fla. -- Miami Dolphins linebacker Channing Crowder says the only way of preventing helmet-to-helmet hits is to eliminate the helmet.

AFC East blog
ESPN.com's Tim Graham writes about all things AFC East in his division blog.

• Blog network: NFL Nation


Otherwise he's going to use his, regardless of punishment from league officials.

"If I get a chance to knock somebody out, I'm going to knock them out and take what they give me," Crowder said Wednesday. "They give me a helmet, I'm going to use it."

After several recent helmet-to-helmet hits, several of which resulted in concussions, the NFL ramped up the punishment Tuesday. Three players received big fines, and the league warned that starting with this week's games, violent conduct will be cause for suspension.

There's particular concern about helmet hits, but many players are unhappy about the crackdown. That includes Crowder, who said concussions are a normal part of the game.

He thinks he gets one every week and often keeps playing.

"If I'm knocked out, I don't know where I'm at, I can't say my name, now I can't play football," he said. "If I get hit in the head and black out for a second and now I get back up dizzy, OK, I'm ready to go."

Crowder missed the first four games this season because of an injury -- to his groin -- before rejoining the lineup last week. He said he has been getting concussions since high school, but in six NFL seasons he has missed only 13 games, none because of a concussion.

Crowder said the NFL is "making a big deal about nothing" and cited money as the motivation.

"They want to save the receivers and quarterbacks because they sell all the jerseys," Crowder said. "They don't give a damn at all about defensive players because we don't sell as many jerseys as them. ...

"If they want to change football to a graceful sport, change it all the way to a graceful sport. Don't try to save the quarterbacks and receivers because they make the money, which that's what they're doing," he said.

Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5708701

Bonnie
10-21-2010, 04:24 AM
Deleted my previous comments cause Logrus has made me see the light and the error of my thinking.

:laugh:


Steelers' Harrison Considers Quitting The NFL
Oct 20, 2010 8:41 pm US/Eastern

NFL Fines Harrison $75,000 For Illegal Hit PITTSBURGH (KDKA) ― Click to enlarge 1 of 1 - Gregory Shamus/Getty Images
numSlides of totalImages Related StoriesNFL Store Pulls Online Picture Of Harrison's Hit (10/20/2010)

Agent: James Harrison Will Appeal $75K Fine
(10/20/2010) Related LinksPittsburgh Steelers NFL

James Harrison makes his living hitting hard. He's been taught from a young age how to do it, and he's one of the best in the world at it. But after the National Football League fined Harrison $75,000 Tuesday for a hit against Browns wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi, Harrison feels he may no longer have a place in the NFL.

"I'm really considering if I can still play football in the NFL by the rules that they are starting to make. If not, I may have to give up playing football," he said in an interview with Fox Sports Radio's Tony Bruno. "If it comes back, 'Well this is how it is and, you know, nothing's going to be done,' then I'm going to seriously have to try and consider a career change, or whatever it may be."

Steelers Head Coach Mike Tomlin met with Harrison Wednesday morning and asked him to take the day off. "I met with James this morning, prior to the official start of the day, in my office. We had a conversation, a very productive conversation. At that time, I thought it was beneficial to him and us if I gave him a little time to cool off and gave him the day. I excused him at that time.

"Needless to say, this is a very emotional thing for James. He's a very disciplined and regimented guy. He's passionate about the game of football. It bothers him, maybe, that he's being perceived as a dirty player. He doesn't desire to be. He simply wants to play the game and play it extremely well."

That emotion carried over to Harrison's teammates in the locker room as well.

"It's a contact sport, and I've always said that, especially the Steelers, that even before I was born, that we were known for being a hard-nosed, physical football team.

"And you know, it's not a game for wimps, if you will. I mean, I don't mean to be saying things like that, but it's not. You can't come out and play this game if you think you're going to get hurt and worry about it too much," quarterback Ben Roethlisberger said.

Roethlisberger also said that he hopes Harrison is back Thursday. Both Tomlin and James Farrior said they do expect him back, but that may not be the case. Harrison's agent said Harrison is serious when he speaks of a possible retirement.

"It is what it is. James is quite serious, and this is not fun and games. I mean, he's very, very serious. How do you play football when, if you tackle someone, you get a $75,000 fine, and the penalty," Harrison's agent, Bill Parise said.

"I don't want to be suspended, but I really feel like I'm really gonna need to, like I said, have a sit-down talk with my coaches and maybe even the league as far as their rules go, to get a clear understanding of how I can play this game," said Harrison.

http://kdka.com/steelers/steelers.linebacker.james.2.1973103.html

logrus
10-21-2010, 02:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HokdZAvlGQ4&feature=related

Bonnie
10-21-2010, 06:15 PM
I really like that song. :laugh:

I get it, I get it! :laugh: That's how football is played.

Hey, it's not my neck (literally) on the line. These guys make millions of dollars; hopefully they're putting enough of it away for a rainy day.

logrus
10-21-2010, 06:43 PM
I really like that song. :laugh:

I get it, I get it! :laugh: That's how football is played.

Hey, it's not my neck (literally) on the line. These guys make millions of dollars; hopefully they're putting enough of it away for a rainy day.

ESPN had a good in depth look at it. If I approach with a proper tackle and the player is straight up then its a clean it. If the player decides to brace for the and compacts his body then the clean hit from earlier is now illegal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlLjPswUfRs

Mark Schlereth is awesome, He called out the NFL about how it cares for its players saftey and yet refuses to pay 135 players workmans comp cases .

J.B.
10-21-2010, 06:50 PM
Steelers' Harrison Considers Quitting The NFL

Umm yeah...sure your not James. :rolleyes:

The league wouldn't care if you did quit, and you wouldn't be hurting anybody but yourself and your team-mates.

Jim Rome said it best, "Hey James, I will trade you $75,000 for the 6 million left on your contract"

J.B.
10-21-2010, 06:58 PM
Reggie Bush tweeted this today

As an offensive player I have to say I disagree w/ the enforcement of the rule. I'd much rather get hit up top then down low in the knees.

logrus
10-21-2010, 07:08 PM
Reggie Bush tweeted this today

He has a point, look how many key players are out with knee injuries and leg injuries.

J.B.
10-21-2010, 07:36 PM
He has a point, look how many key players are out with knee injuries and leg injuries.

I agree, knee injuries are very serious business.

However, Bush does kind of sully that great statement with the ill-logic in his next tweet...

Worst case scenario you get hit up top=concussion. Worst case scenario you get hit down low=knee surgery or possible end of career.

He is right about career ending knee injuries...but I think we all know that concussions are not the worst case scenario for getting hit it in the head.

There is also a bit of chest thumping to his statement too. Nobody wants to be the guy that sounds like a cry-baby. That is another unwritten part of football.

logrus
10-21-2010, 09:27 PM
I agree, knee injuries are very serious business.

However, Bush does kind of sully that great statement with the ill-logic in his next tweet...



He is right about career ending knee injuries...but I think we all know that concussions are not the worst case scenario for getting hit it in the head.

There is also a bit of chest thumping to his statement too. Nobody wants to be the guy that sounds like a cry-baby. That is another unwritten part of football.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seZtmjbvZYQ

(graphic violence)

:Whistle:

Its not the NFL but still.

J.B.
10-21-2010, 09:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seZtmjbvZYQ

(graphic violence)

:Whistle:

Its not the NFL but still.

Yeah, that sucks.

Reminds me of Corey Hill going spaghetti leg

Bonnie
10-21-2010, 11:05 PM
ESPN had a good in depth look at it. If I approach with a proper tackle and the player is straight up then its a clean it. If the player decides to brace for the and compacts his body then the clean hit from earlier is now illegal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlLjPswUfRs

Mark Schlereth is awesome, He called out the NFL about how it cares for its players saftey and yet refuses to pay 135 players workmans comp cases .

Well, nobody can say he doesn't know of what he speaks. They do look like hypocrites--they're profiting from the very thing they've just fined their players for. Maybe they should put any monies they get from the sale of those videos towards a worker's comp or long-term care fund for the players. The players should definitely think about personally doing something like that for themselves anyways.

Good video, Logrus, helps me understand better from a player's pov. :)

Umm yeah...sure your not James. :rolleyes:

The league wouldn't care if you did quit, and you wouldn't be hurting anybody but yourself and your team-mates.

Jim Rome said it best, "Hey James, I will trade you $75,000 for the 6 million left on your contract"

If he were to do that (which I agree with ya he's not), I'd definitely say he might have some brain damage from all those head hits. :laugh:

J.B.
10-21-2010, 11:43 PM
What ever happened to; "We don't change the rules in the middle of the season" ???

Typically this type of stuff gets dealt with during the off-season after the board does some extensive reviews. This whole thing has been knee-jerk from the start after having one Sunday with a couple more brutal hits than usual.

Mark Schlereth isn't the only player who has been pointing out that the league profits from these big hits. Brandon Marshall was just on the radio saying the same thing. Just like I said in the beginning of the thread, this is the business that the NFL has created and they can't escape it now.

Oh yeah, and that Moment of Impact DVD is no longer on NFLshop.com

logrus
10-22-2010, 03:53 AM
What ever happened to; "We don't change the rules in the middle of the season" ???

Typically this type of stuff gets dealt with during the off-season after the board does some extensive reviews. This whole thing has been knee-jerk from the start after having one Sunday with a couple more brutal hits than usual.

Mark Schlereth isn't the only player who has been pointing out that the league profits from these big hits. Brandon Marshall was just on the radio saying the same thing. Just like I said in the beginning of the thread, this is the business that the NFL has created and they can't escape it now.

Oh yeah, and that Moment of Impact DVD is no longer on NFLshop.com

Well what they are saying is its already a rule, its just now they decided to be very very very strict on calling it. For the last 2 days I have been listening to Mark and I am with him 100%. Go after the guys like M'weather who launched helmet to helmet, but dont go after a guy just going for the separation of man from the ball.

logrus
10-22-2010, 11:50 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Watch-The-NFL-s-video-clarifying-the-new-emphas?urn=nfl-279146

so from what I am watching, its not ok to use your shoulder to deliver a hit aimed at the chest, then later he says its ok to use the shoulder to deliver a hit aimed at the chest.

Damn NFL just made a not complicated rule very complicated lol.

J.B.
10-23-2010, 12:01 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Watch-The-NFL-s-video-clarifying-the-new-emphas?urn=nfl-279146

so from what I am watching, its not ok to use your shoulder to deliver a hit aimed at the chest, then later he says its ok to use the shoulder to deliver a hit aimed at the chest.

Damn NFL just made a not complicated rule very complicated lol.

:laugh:

dude, it's always been complicated...

For real, anybody who knows me, or who has followed things I have wrote knows that I am ALL about the athletes. From safety to money issues, I back the players 90% of the time. This issue is no different, and I would have given the same opinion had NO players come out against it. In fact, I think there are still a majority of players who disagree with the crackdown, but know better than to cross the league in the media.

I've said it many times, leagues give preferential treatment to star players, and the NFL is NO different in that respect. However, the NFL is the league that is LEAST reliant on it's biggest stars. The NFL doesn't REALLY need Brett Favre...but they will tolerate him for the revenue. It's just good business. :wink:

J.B.
10-24-2010, 08:52 PM
Anybody watching the Steelers vs the Dolphins right now?

Big Ben just tried to dive into the end zone head first and Chris Clemens lunged at him head/shoulder first to knock the ball lose. They didn't go head to head, but that is a perfect example of why they can't change what football is.

logrus
10-24-2010, 09:34 PM
Anybody watching the Steelers vs the Dolphins right now?

Big Ben just tried to dive into the end zone head first and Chris Clemens lunged at him head/shoulder first to knock the ball lose. They didn't go head to head, but that is a perfect example of why they can't change what football is.

#31 for the Pats just delivered a huge hit, shoulder to the upper body, so who knows what the NFL will say bout it. lol :laugh:

logrus
10-24-2010, 09:38 PM
http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb441/alabamartrtessa/drew-brees1.jpg

Wonders now if he should have passed up on the chance to be on the Madden cover....

J.B.
10-24-2010, 09:47 PM
who dat? who dat? who dat sayin dey gonna beat dem Browns?

J.B.
10-24-2010, 09:48 PM
http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb441/alabamartrtessa/drew-brees1.jpg

Wonders now if he should have passed up on the chance to be on the Madden cover....

The curse is real...

logrus
10-24-2010, 10:04 PM
who dat? who dat? who dat sayin dey gonna beat dem Browns?

lol Bret knows its for real lol. :laugh:

Bonnie
10-24-2010, 10:07 PM
Anybody watching the Steelers vs the Dolphins right now?

Big Ben just tried to dive into the end zone head first and Chris Clemens lunged at him head/shoulder first to knock the ball lose. They didn't go head to head, but that is a perfect example of why they can't change what football is.

Y'all keep saying "knock the ball loose...separate the ball from the guy", I thought they were supposed to stop the guy with the ball and IF the ball comes loose it's a plus if they retrieve it. I thought it's stop yardage if they're running, try to sack the QB, or try to intercept during passing. If the objective is to separate the guy from the ball, no wonder they're doing their best to level the carrier by knocking his block off.

J.B.
10-24-2010, 10:17 PM
Y'all keep saying "knock the ball loose...separate the ball from the guy", I thought they were supposed to stop the guy with the ball and IF the ball comes loose it's a plus if they retrieve it. I thought it's stop yardage if they're running, try to sack the QB, or try to intercept during passing. If the objective is to separate the guy from the ball, no wonder they're doing their best to level the carrier by knocking his block off.

The idea is to create plays that give your team the best chance to win, and turnovers are the number one thing. When you look at stats, the big number that almost always determines the winner of the game is who wins the turnover battle.

Bonnie
10-25-2010, 12:15 AM
The idea is to create plays that give your team the best chance to win, and turnovers are the number one thing. When you look at stats, the big number that almost always determines the winner of the game is who wins the turnover battle.

Brett does seem to excel at this...unfortunately. :rolleyes: Even more unfortunate, it seems to happen near the end of the game....or ends the game. :wink: