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matthughesfan21
09-08-2010, 01:54 PM
On 9/11, a Florida minister is preparing to burn copies of the Quran in a bonfire...I don't agree with this at all. I understand the dislike for islam considering the terrorist incidents, but be the bigger person and show how you are above such violence and immaturity...Stooping to the levels of the extremist muslims does no good at all

Secondly, muslim extremists are already insane to begin with now you are fueling that even more. They already hate Americans and now they will see a small group of them burning their holy document. Don't be surprised to possibly see some sort of terrorist action(Be it threats or attacks) if this plan goes through.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/quran_burning

rearnakedchoke
09-08-2010, 02:14 PM
On 9/11, a Florida minister is preparing to burn copies of the Quran in a bonfire...I don't agree with this at all. I understand the dislike for islam considering the terrorist incidents, but be the bigger person and show how you are above such violence and immaturity...Stooping to the levels of the extremist muslims does no good at all

Secondly, muslim extremists are already insane to begin with now you are fueling that even more. They already hate Americans and now they will see a small group of them burning their holy document. Don't be surprised to possibly see some sort of terrorist action(Be it threats or attacks) if this plan goes through.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/quran_burning

how are they getting the quran's? are they buying them?? sounds kinda silly to buy something when it is possible that the money is being used for terrorist actions .. i think it is stupid .. also, i am not saying all mosques are fronts for terrorist operations, but i have no doubt there are a few with alterior motives ... it's like the people burning the lebron jerseys ... most were burning there old jerseys, but jersey sales went up in cleveland after he left for miami so that people could burn them ... LOL

adamt
09-08-2010, 02:20 PM
sounds good to me

the only problem is that it might boost koran sales, but that might catch the right persons eye and it might get someone thinking hey, we're getting bred out by muslims

i wish there was a cheaper something to burn

i doubt they are worried about us staging terrorist attacks on them when they are calling us infidel dogs

at some point you are going to have to stand up for something and not be so scared of the consequences, if they are the type of people to attack us because we burned their koran, maybe we should go ahead and kill their brittle, touchy arses

if i have to live in constant fear of my dog biting me if i offended it, i would soon give that dog some "lead poisoning", if you know what i mean

how about we burn piles of manure instead, and say it doesn't represent all of islam, just the ones that hate Jesus and America

matthughesfan21
09-08-2010, 02:56 PM
sounds good to me

the only problem is that it might boost koran sales, but that might catch the right persons eye and it might get someone thinking hey, we're getting bred out by muslims

i wish there was a cheaper something to burn

i doubt they are worried about us staging terrorist attacks on them when they are calling us infidel dogs

at some point you are going to have to stand up for something and not be so scared of the consequences, if they are the type of people to attack us because we burned their koran, maybe we should go ahead and kill their brittle, touchy arses

if i have to live in constant fear of my dog biting me if i offended it, i would soon give that dog some "lead poisoning", if you know what i mean

how about we burn piles of manure instead, and say it doesn't represent all of islam, just the ones that hate Jesus and America
That's not my main reason for being against this...Primarily, I think it is somewhat childish and immature. And if you really claim to be better than islam and their extremists people, then you would not stoop to their kind of shyte...Just because they do crap like this doesn't mean you have to as well...I am just as much against islam as you are, but that doesn't mean I am going to go around spewing hate

flo
09-08-2010, 04:16 PM
IMO, this is provocative and just plain wrong! Can they do it? Yeah. Should they? No.

Petreus says the blowback will endanger our troops. That alone should be enough to stop them from this publicity stunt.

Miss Foxy
09-08-2010, 04:32 PM
Very tacky. Correct by remembering the troops. That will put those insurgents/militants in an eye for an eye mode. Not that they need any more help being evil, but we get to lock our doors at night our troops are out there in foreign land.

adamt
09-08-2010, 05:26 PM
if they were burning nazi paraphenalia on the anniversary of a significant battle would you have the same response?

They don't seem to mind burning effigies of us or our flag itself, why should we tiptoe around them.

i say burn an effigy of muhammad, then give our soldiers leeway to fire

the burning doesn't put soldiers at risk, the restriction on defending themselves does,

and i don't mind spewing hate...... i hate evil, and will spew my hate for all things evil as much as i can

Tyburn
09-08-2010, 05:39 PM
if they were burning nazi paraphenalia on the anniversary of a significant battle would you have the same response?

They don't seem to mind burning effigies of us or our flag itself, why should we tiptoe around them.

i say burn an effigy of muhammad, then give our soldiers leeway to fire

the burning doesn't put soldiers at risk, the restriction on defending themselves does,

and i don't mind spewing hate...... i hate evil, and will spew my hate for all things evil as much as i can

"Bless those who persecute you, Bless and do not curse...Render to no one Evil for Evil....Do not be overcome by Evil, but overcome Evil with good."

What part of your post above is in line with anything other then the very Evil you despise? It is NOT GODly to "spew hate for all things evil" SHAME ON YOU! :sad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF2hfXzS93E Obviously you took no notice of my Easter Dedication for 2010

matthughesfan21
09-08-2010, 05:43 PM
That's not my main reason for being against this...Primarily, I think it is somewhat childish and immature. And if you really claim to be better than islam and their extremists people, then you would not stoop to their kind of shyte...Just because they do crap like this doesn't mean you have to as well...I am just as much against islam as you are, but that doesn't mean I am going to go around spewing hate

if they were burning nazi paraphenalia on the anniversary of a significant battle would you have the same response?

They don't seem to mind burning effigies of us or our flag itself, why should we tiptoe around them.Regarding burning nazi paraphenalia, No I would not burn nazi stuff on an anniversary of a battle. Instead, I would act like an adult and instead praise the efforts of our soldiers in the war instead of throwing a fit about the other side

Miss Foxy
09-08-2010, 05:45 PM
if they were burning nazi paraphenalia on the anniversary of a significant battle would you have the same response?

They don't seem to mind burning effigies of us or our flag itself, why should we tiptoe around them.

i say burn an effigy of muhammad, then give our soldiers leeway to fire

the burning doesn't put soldiers at risk, the restriction on defending themselves does,

and i don't mind spewing hate...... i hate evil, and will spew my hate for all things evil as much as i can

No I would not burn Nazi paraphenalia darn it I am 1/2 German!! lol j/k no I would not. I would pray for all their souls just like right now we need to pray for these bastards souls. I get where your coming from, but remember to say a prayer and we all know what will happen to them if they continue to live like this.

Tyburn
09-08-2010, 06:00 PM
Regarding burning nazi paraphenalia, No I would not burn nazi stuff on an anniversary of a battle. Instead, I would act like an adult and instead praise the efforts of our soldiers in the war instead of throwing a fit about the other side

INDEED! QFT

The Biggest connection between Islam and Nazism, is that they did very similar things after they conqured a place. They would have massive book burnings. Not just religious books, but the distruction of art and literary masterpieces, especially if the authors were Jewish.

To think, on a day when so many Americans died, that rather then sit quietly and reflect, and honour the memories of those who perished...someone on this forum would uphold the suggestion of making effergies of islamic people, burning their scriptures, endangering the lives of troops still out in the war zone, possibly endagering the lives of others dying in a similar attack...and maybe worst of all, pushing public opinion to pity Islam because of the outrageous notions of Christians burning books.

It boils down to those people actually being dumb towards what Christianity suggests. Sure Christianity has Martyres...but they differ from other Religious Martyres...until you understand that in a Christian sense, nothing is supposed to be achieved by martyredom except for the glorification of GOD by someone willing to die for what they believe in, for zero gain, you will never be able to understand what sets Christianity apart from the World...and what well meaning, angry, idiots do, is play INTO the hands of Evil because they are too bitter to see the truth.

We are commanded to be in the world but not of it...alot of that has to do with the mindset of a GOD centred person, compared to that of any other heathen. The Heathens think they need to impress themselves upon GOD in martyredom...it is about THEM and what THEY are doing for their idol....and its a display to the world, that granted usually does cost them a sacrifice.

A Christian Martyre may die completely unnoticed and never be recorded in History, because he is not concerned with how the world views him, he is concerned with doing what is righteous at any given moment no matter what the personal cost. He doesnt do anything to impress his loyalty on GOD because he doesnt need to do that. He knows where he stands with his creator, so when it happens if ONLY GOD bears witness amoungst the evil, then that is fine, because it is about Glorifying GOD, and how it happens, or who it happens to is inconsecquential.

we dont know what its like to be oppressed and to be at war, we dont know what its like to really hurt for the sake of Christ, dont be fooled by a slight anger that does nothing but reddens the cheeks. The little girl who wrote the lyrics of the song in the video below. SHE knew...and she died.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miLV0o4AhE4

rearnakedchoke
09-08-2010, 07:55 PM
"Bless those who persecute you, Bless and do not curse...Render to no one Evil for Evil....Do not be overcome by Evil, but overcome Evil with good."


This!

BamaGrits84
09-08-2010, 08:48 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. I burn them all the time.:ninja:

flo
09-08-2010, 08:54 PM
Nazi paraphernalia is not the same as a religious holy book, so your comparison is invalid.

And Dave's post#5 is absolutely right.

Tyburn
09-08-2010, 09:15 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. I burn them all the time.:ninja:

I thought you ate them :ninja:

:laugh:

Bonnie
09-08-2010, 09:24 PM
I agree that what this supposed pastor is doing is wrong; no good can come from it, especially for our men and women in harm's way over there. I saw him on television yesterday and he was saying, "Well, if someone is killed...." like "Oh, well". :blink:

I agree those little men over there are hypocrites to burn our flag and kill people for carrying a bible and spreading Christianity, but this preacher will be no different than them by doing this especially if they retaliate (which you know they will) by killing Americans over this.

Tyburn
09-08-2010, 09:41 PM
I agree those little men over there are hypocrites to burn our flag and kill people for carrying a bible and spreading Christianity, but this preacher will be no different than them by doing this especially if they retaliate (which you know they will) by killing Americans over this.

Exactly

You gotta understand, I am not condoning any of it...you should not burn flags or effergies, or books, or manuscripts

I DID burn a book once...but that was because it was dangerous and I didnt know what else to do with it...I couldnt take it home with me, I couldnt dump it on the bus ride home or in a bin lest someone else discover it...but I didnt make a big song and dance...I just shoved it in the burn bowl. I didnt go out looking for this book, it fell into my possession, nor did I cause any offense by burning it.

adamt
09-08-2010, 09:43 PM
Nazi paraphernalia is not the same as a religious holy book, so your comparison is invalid.


.
o i see, we can burn turbans then?

oh and there's nothing holy about the koran

BamaGrits84
09-08-2010, 09:46 PM
I thought you ate them :ninja:

:laugh:

No I stopped when I kept getting paper cuts in my mouth and people thought I was the sister of the crazy paper eater from Silence of the Lamb.

adamt
09-08-2010, 09:50 PM
"Bless those who persecute you, Bless and do not curse...Render to no one Evil for Evil....Do not be overcome by Evil, but overcome Evil with good."

What part of your post above is in line with anything other then the very Evil you despise? It is NOT GODly to "spew hate for all things evil" SHAME ON YOU! :sad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF2hfXzS93E Obviously you took no notice of my Easter Dedication for 2010


you're a pacifist huh

i would like to have been there when you were telling the founding fathers that while they were throwing your queens tea overboard in boston harbor a couple hundred years ago, i can tell for sure those on here that would have been no help gaining our independance, cause they are too worried about tolerance


i hate evil and am proud of it, i ain't gonna pussyfoot around evil and evil people,

there are those on here that would like to condemn jesus for throwing over the money tables in the temple, i guess they would try to quote back to him what he said and you quoted to me just now

Shame on YOU!!! for harboring and tolerating evil

flo
09-08-2010, 11:01 PM
o i see, we can burn turbans then?

oh and there's nothing holy about the koran
What part of that don't you get? To millions of people, it IS a holy book.

flo
09-08-2010, 11:03 PM
As I said, this fool can burn whatever he wants for his publicity stunt. That doesn't make it RIGHT.

flo
09-08-2010, 11:05 PM
i would like to have been there when you were telling the founding fathers that while they were throwing your queens tea overboard in boston harbor a couple hundred years ago, i can tell for sure those on here that would have been no help gaining our independance, cause they are too worried about tolerance
And don't you DARE say I wouldn't defend my country, just WTH is your problem?

Jonlion
09-08-2010, 11:25 PM
you're a pacifist huh

i would like to have been there when you were telling the founding fathers that while they were throwing your queens tea overboard in boston harbor a couple hundred years ago, i can tell for sure those on here that would have been no help gaining our independance, cause they are too worried about tolerance


i hate evil and am proud of it, i ain't gonna pussyfoot around evil and evil people,

there are those on here that would like to condemn jesus for throwing over the money tables in the temple, i guess they would try to quote back to him what he said and you quoted to me just now

Shame on YOU!!! for harboring and tolerating evil

I can only pray that you have these thoughts through a hot tempered anger and will think on it - read your bible and begin to understand the idiocy you are spouting.

If you do not realise your error then I am afraid you do not know jesus and his Gospel. Lets go over a few things

1) This very action endangers your American soldiers out fighting in the Middle East as you glibly burn the Koran - something that is Holy to those people. You do realise as you burn the Koran from the confort of the US you have set up a situation that means Americans in any Muslim country could be attacked by idiots who believe that to avenge the burning of the Koran that they would kill people, most people who understand the bible and the Koran know that this is not the way to react to this action.

2) Why do I think that you would be the sort of person who would condemm Catholics and the Crusades.

3) You should hate evil - but by that you realise we are all inherently evil. By your logic Islam isnt the only evil why aren't you burning other books, or buildings etc.

What should concern you more is all the souls that do not know Christ - you are blessed to have eyes and ears open to Jesus - you should approach others who dont with a feverent ministry to bring them to Christ - not burning their sacred books.

How does Paul act to the Pagans of Greece and their many Gods? How does Jesus talk to the adulterer at the well, does he condemn or rather talk to them about the love god and Christ has for them.

Hell and judgement is all too real but Christ doesn't approach people who don't know him with that.

It is late and I need to go to bed but i am happy to start to go over the most important thing, scripture but I am sure others will be better placed.

I would urge you to try to think on this, your anger.

This is such a misplaced and dangerous action that no good can come out of.

Jonlion
09-08-2010, 11:39 PM
Ask yourself this; how does this action glorify Jesus Christ?

How does this help spread the Gospel and how are you bringing people to the church through this action but rather turn hearts away from it.

The tragedy is that when I talk about being a Christian peoples first thoughts gravitate to this sort of action and it really is sad.

matthughesfan21
09-09-2010, 12:13 AM
you're a pacifist huh

i would like to have been there when you were telling the founding fathers that while they were throwing your queens tea overboard in boston harbor a couple hundred years ago, i can tell for sure those on here that would have been no help gaining our independance, cause they are too worried about tolerance

Huge difference...The tea party was rising up against a controlling government and fighting for independence...Burning a Quran does nothing to help our way of life


i hate evil and am proud of it, i ain't gonna pussyfoot around evil and evil people,
if you keep blatantly dismissing and blowing off the teachings of Jesus despite other people already showing you quotes from scripture regarding evil, You may want to get used to that evil because you might just be confined to evil and fire in the afterlife


Shame on YOU!!! for harboring and tolerating evil
No one here is harboring or tolerating it..Burning the damn book does not rid us of the evil...If anything it is contributing to it(By intensifying the evil feelings of muslim extremists and also portraying Christianity to be evil and hate-filled)
Shame on YOU for contributing to and tolerating evil

responses in red

adamt
09-09-2010, 01:21 AM
What part of that don't you get? To millions of people, it IS a holy book.

wow, do you know english? Holy is holy, without sin, if you think the koran is holy, you're a heretic

As I said, this fool can burn whatever he wants for his publicity stunt. That doesn't make it RIGHT.

i think someone who thinks the koran is holy is the last person to decide what is right


And don't you DARE say I wouldn't defend my country, just WTH is your problem?

wow, keep your hormones in check there lady, that wasn't even directed towards you.

and fyi my problem is tolerant sissies that think if we love the muslims enough and pray for them and kiss them and think happy thoughts and by no means do anything to upset them then we will all live happy ever after

I can only pray that you have these thoughts through a hot tempered anger and will think on it - read your bible and begin to understand the idiocy you are spouting.

If you do not realise your error then I am afraid you do not know jesus and his Gospel. Lets go over a few things

1) This very action endangers your American soldiers out fighting in thelook that is the lamest thing i have ever heard, our soldiers are in danger, they will be in no less danger or no more danger dependant on what some guy does in florida, besides a mad enemy makes mistakes Middle East as you glibly burn the Koran - something that is Holy holy is not relative, koran is not holyto those people. You do realise as you burn the Koran from the confort of the US you have set up a situation that means Americans in any Muslim country could be attacked by idiots who believe that to avenge the burning of the Koran that they would kill people, most people who understand the bible and the Koran know that this is not the way to react to this action.

2) Why do I think that you would be the sort of person who would condemm Catholics and the Crusades.please explain

3) You should hate evil - but by that you realise we are all inherently evil. By your logic Islam isnt the only evil why aren't you burning other books, or buildings etc.

What should concern you more is all the souls that do not know Christ - you are blessed to have eyes and ears open to Jesus - you should approach others who dont with a feverent ministry to bring them to Christ - not burning their sacred books.

How does Paul act to the Pagans of Greece and their many Gods? How does Jesus talk to the adulterer at the well,the woman at the well had a repentant heart that had not yet closed to Christ does he condemn or rather talk to them about the love god and Christ has for them.

Hell and judgement is all too real but Christ doesn't approach people who don't know him with that.

It is late and I need to go to bed but i am happy to start to go over the most important thing, scripture but I am sure others will be better placed.

I would urge you to try to think on this, your anger. sounds like something you should tell Jesus when He was kicking arse in the temple

This is such a misplaced and dangerous action that no good can come out of.sounds like something else the do gooders were yelling at Jesus

Ask yourself this; how does this action glorify Jesus Christ? How did Jesus flipping the tables glorify himself?

How does this help spread the Gospel and how are you bringing people to the church through this action but rather turn hearts away from it. the Gospel is polarizing it isn't meant to bring everyone to Christ,

The tragedy is that when I talk about being a Christian peoples first thoughts gravitate to this sort of action and it really is sad.

i guess their first thought should be annoying geeky wimpy losers that always turn the other cheek

adamt
09-09-2010, 01:29 AM
Huge difference...The tea party was rising up against a controlling government and fighting for independence...Burning a Quran does nothing to help our way of life
i'm sure that's what people were saying at the boston tea party ...."stop it guys, this is not right, this isn't going to help things, this is unneeded violence and you're only gonna make the brits mad"

if you keep blatantly dismissing and blowing off the teachings of Jesus despite other people already showing you quotes from scripture regarding evil, You may want to get used to that evil because you might just be confined to evil and fire in the afterlifeHAHAHAHA :laugh: i'm pretty sure it is the tolerant relativists that aren't going to make it to heaven, the ones that think the koran is holy, and we shouldn't condemn evil pagans cause it might make them mad, never mind the goading they done nine years ago,



No one here is harboring or tolerating it..Burning the damn book does not rid us of the evil..well by that logic, david shouldn't have killed Goliath, .If anything it is contributing to it(By intensifying the evil feelings of muslim extremists and also portraying Christianity to be evil and hate-filled)
Shame on YOU for contributing to and tolerating evil

i can see it now, "DAVID DON"T KILL GOLIATH, you're only going to make the philistines mad!! how's this going to help our cause, you're sposed to show them love, not portray us as hate filled biggots,



wow, i would hate to see what you guys would tell moses, i mean that guy killed the firstborn for pete's sake, you guys would have hung him for being violent and filled with hate

adamt
09-09-2010, 01:30 AM
As I said, this fool can burn whatever he wants for his publicity stunt. That doesn't make it RIGHT.

i'm pretty sure that is a direct quote from the people in sodom and gommorrah

flo
09-09-2010, 01:41 AM
Hey, you're a total ignoramus. You can stick the hormone comment where the sun don't shine, got it? You are now scroll-over country.

matthughesfan21
09-09-2010, 03:20 AM
wow, i would hate to see what you guys would tell moses, i mean that guy killed the firstborn for pete's sake, you guys would have hung him for being violent and filled with hateAre you a christian?

Christianity-# The Christian religion, founded on the life and teachings of Jesus.

even now after people have pointed to you some of the teachings of Jesus regarding evil, you still choose to ignore it and say we are just trying to be super duper nice to the muslims...No, we are following the teachings of Jesus...Your either a Christian or your not, if you choose to be, then follow the word of Jesus, not just when it happens to fit your own agenda.

Do you honestly think that we are trying to say that we should all treat muslims super nice and never disagree with them? hello, a cave called...It wants it bat shyte back

adamt
09-09-2010, 03:28 AM
Hey, you're a total ignoramus. You can stick the hormone comment where the sun don't shine, got it? and you are claiming to be a christian?

You are now scroll-over country.

i think i will still be able to sleep tonight

Play The Man
09-09-2010, 03:35 AM
IMO, this is provocative and just plain wrong! Can they do it? Yeah. Should they? No.

Petreus says the blowback will endanger our troops. That alone should be enough to stop them from this publicity stunt.

Flo, I agree.

adamt
09-09-2010, 03:43 AM
Are you a christian?

Christianity-# The Christian religion, founded on the life and teachings of Jesus.by this definition no, but i am a born again servant of God, I don't care much for religion, and there is much more to Christianity than the life and teachings of Jesus, lots of people say that Jesus was a good prophet and we could learn from what He said, even muslims could say they think the "life and teachings of Jesus" are good

even now after people have pointed to you some of the teachings of Jesus regarding evil,i believe i have pointed out some scripture myself and you seem to be ignoring it pretty well yourself you still choose to ignore it and say we are just trying to be super duper nice to the muslims...No, we are following the teachings of Jesus..yeah? really? i would like to see you give away all your money, in fact i will take it, i also would like for you to love me like you tell me to love others, but you seem to be judger me worse than i am judging evil, and obviously you fast right?, and have you plucked out your eyes to keep you from looking upon others lustfully? do you hate your family?Luke 14:25.Your either a Christian or your not, if you choose to be, then follow the word of Jesus, not just when it happens to fit your own agenda.nice cliche, i can see you are religious

Do you honestly think that we are trying to say that we should all treat muslims super nice and never disagree with them? hello, a cave called...It wants it bat shyte backback to the boston tea party, i have the verse you would have been yelling at them while they were protesting taxes by dumping the tea mark 12:17 Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's" this would have been the perfect verse to convince the original rebels to just keep turning the other cheek and giving the redcoats all they wanted and just taking it cause Jesus told us to
I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!Luke 12:49

Play The Man
09-09-2010, 03:43 AM
This is a statement from Patrick Sookhdeo of Barnabas Aid, a Christian organization that supports Christians in hostile (e.g. Muslim) nations.

A church in Gainsville, Florida, USA, the Dove World Outreach Centre, has announced that it will burn copies of the Qur’an on Saturday 11 September to mark the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. The stated purpose of this action is to raise awareness of the ideology and teaching of Islam and to warn against its dangers.
Barnabas Fund condemns the proposed action, for the following reasons:
Barnabas Fund is fully committed to making known the aspects of Islam that result in injustice and oppression of non-Muslims, not least the persecution of Christians. But we believe that the biblical and Christ-like way to do this is by speaking the truth in the power of God’s love, and by extending that love to Muslim people even when they are hostile to us. In that context it can never be justified to destroy a book that Muslims regard as sacred, however firmly and profoundly we may disagree with its contents.

The effect of the proposed action on Christians in Muslim-majority contexts is likely to be extremely serious. Already Muslim militants in Indonesia have promised to kill Indonesian Christians if Qur’ans are burned in Florida, and the history of anti-Christian violence in the country suggests that this is not an idle threat. Barnabas partners in Iraq have expressed concern at the probable Muslim backlash against an already beleaguered Iraqi Church. And Christians in numerous other places who live in daily fear of potentially deadly attacks will at once be placed in much greater danger. It cannot be right to exercise our freedom to protest in a way that puts at risk the lives of our brothers and sisters, for whom Christ died.

There is a further risk that Christian minorities may be divided among themselves as churches with links to the West come to be unfairly associated with the action taken in Florida and its destructive consequences. It is important for Christians under pressure to be united, as their division serves only to weaken the Church and increase its vulnerability to Muslim attacks. It is therefore wholly inappropriate to undermine that unity for the sake of an unnecessary, offensive and dangerous gesture.
For these reasons Barnabas Fund urges the Dove World Outreach Centre and its supporters to refrain from burning Qur’ans on the anniversary of 9/11. It invites all Christians instead to join with us in prayer for our persecuted brothers and sisters throughout the world, and that the hatred and violence that endanger them may be overcome by the grace and love of Christ.
Dr Patrick Sookhdeo
International Director
Barnabas Fund
7 September 2010

Chuck
09-09-2010, 03:50 AM
you're a pacifist huh

i would like to have been there when you were telling the founding fathers that while they were throwing your queens tea overboard in boston harbor a couple hundred years ago, i can tell for sure those on here that would have been no help gaining our independance, cause they are too worried about tolerance


i hate evil and am proud of it, i ain't gonna pussyfoot around evil and evil people,

there are those on here that would like to condemn jesus for throwing over the money tables in the temple, i guess they would try to quote back to him what he said and you quoted to me just now

Shame on YOU!!! for harboring and tolerating evil

How do you define evil? :huh:

Is the sin in your life somehow different or less offensive to Christ than their sin?

Would you like Christ to judge you in the same way you're judging them?


Your "overturning the tables" argument is flawed and quite frankly ridiculous. Do you understand that scripture and why Christ did what He did?

Flo and PTM are right... this will endanger US Soldiers and makes no sense from a Christian, moral or strategic perspective. It's simply a publicity stunt aimed at the simple minded. Apparently he's found his target audience in you. :wink:

Bonnie
09-09-2010, 04:39 AM
Hey, you're a total ignoramus. You can stick the hormone comment where the sun don't shine, got it? You are now scroll-over country.

I agree, the hormone comment was uncalled for adamt. :punch:

adamt
09-09-2010, 04:43 AM
the year is 2037 and after 7 years of tribulation and a false trinity Christ returns on His White steed to vanquish the dragon and banish satan but wait as He is galloping along with His flaming sword, what's this? Someone runs up along side to tell Him....

.Primarily, I think this is somewhat childish and immature. And if you really claim to be better than satan and the beast and their extremists people, then you would not stoop to their kind of shyte...Just because they do crap like this doesn't mean you have to as well...I am just as much againstsatan as you are, but that doesn't mean I am going to go around spewing hate



And from the other side another 21st century christian explains things to Him....
IMO, this is provocative and just plain wrong! Can you do it? Yeah. Should you? No.

Petreus says the blowback will endanger our troops. That alone should be enough to stop you from this publicity stunt.


yet another one grabs a leg to hammer truth into Him, even doing it with scripture!!!!


"Bless those who persecute you, Bless and do not curse...Render to no one Evil for Evil....Do not be overcome by Evil, but overcome Evil with good."

What part of your post above is in line with anything other then the very Evil you despise? It is NOT GODly to "spew hate for all things evil" SHAME ON YOU! :sad:



and these obviously wiser nobler creatures have finally talked sense into the crazy biggot






How do you define evil? organized sin, and how about you huh? :huh:

Is the sin in your life somehow different or less offensive to Christ than their sin? what is your point? and what leads you to poorly attempt to make it?

Would you like Christ to judge you in the same way you're judging them? sure, which is of course the same way you are judging me now and they are judging me, so why not, your rhetorical questions work for yourself as well you know


Your "overturning the tables" argument is flawed how, and what authority are you stating this? your own? isn't that what you are ragging on me about?and quite frankly ridiculous. Do you understand that scripture and why Christ did what He did?i do

Flo and PTM are rightso you decide what is right, all along i thought it was God, wow, thanks for setting me straight... this will endanger US Soldierssilly me, i thought they were already in danger and it is kinda their job to be in danger and makes no sense from a Christian, moral or strategic perspective. It's simply a publicity stunt aimed at the simple minded. Apparently he's found his target audience in you. chuck master of underhanded slurs yet again, you got me:wink:



wow, you done well, your turning the other cheek and loving me has shown me the right thing to believe, your actions are so loud how could i miss the Godliness that just eminates from you, i am so glad you're not hypocritical like me, to tell someone to love and turn the other cheek and not spew hate and vain violence, not to say stuff that isn't obviously God glorifying, I would have to say if your religion works that well for you count me in!!!!!!

no more intolerance for me, nope! Muslims come on in and breed us out!!! Obviously i am wrong and allah isn't satan, allah is just another name for my God, and we can all get along, I don't want to do anything to offend you or your beliefs, because that wouldn't be nice and Jesus said Love one another, even if that means you have to tolerate all their evil

adamt
09-09-2010, 04:48 AM
I agree, the hormone comment was uncalled for adamt. :punch:

I apologize bonnie, i shouldn't have said that, especially if it offended you or some of the other ladies on here, i guess i better keep my hormones in check as well to prevent collateral damage

J.B.
09-09-2010, 04:54 AM
http://www.mywebpower.com/graphics/sthumbs/michael-jackson/michael-jackson-thriller-eating-popcorn-animated.gif

Chuck
09-09-2010, 04:54 AM
wow, you done well, your turning the other cheek and loving me has shown me the right thing to believe, your actions are so loud how could i miss the Godliness that just eminates from you, i am so glad you're not hypocritical like me, to tell someone to love and turn the other cheek and not spew hate and vain violence, not to say stuff that isn't obviously God glorifying, I would have to say if your religion works that well for you count me in!!!!!!

no more intolerance for me, nope! Muslims come on in and breed us out!!! Obviously i am wrong and allah isn't satan, allah is just another name for my God, and we can all get along, I don't want to do anything to offend you or your beliefs, because that wouldn't be nice and Jesus said Love one another, even if that means you have to tolerate all their evil

wow.....just...yeah....wow. :huh:

adamt
09-09-2010, 04:58 AM
http://www.mywebpower.com/graphics/sthumbs/michael-jackson/michael-jackson-thriller-eating-popcorn-animated.gif


i bet we would get a different reaction out of you if we started talking bad about boxing :wink::laugh::laugh: j/k

Bonnie
09-09-2010, 05:09 AM
This is a statement from Patrick Sookhdeo of Barnabas Aid, a Christian organization that supports Christians in hostile (e.g. Muslim) nations.



Quote:
A church in Gainsville, Florida, USA, the Dove World Outreach Centre, has announced that it will burn copies of the Qur’an on Saturday 11 September to mark the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. The stated purpose of this action is to raise awareness of the ideology and teaching of Islam and to warn against its dangers.
Barnabas Fund condemns the proposed action, for the following reasons:
Barnabas Fund is fully committed to making known the aspects of Islam that result in injustice and oppression of non-Muslims, not least the persecution of Christians. But we believe that the biblical and Christ-like way to do this is by speaking the truth in the power of God’s love, and by extending that love to Muslim people even when they are hostile to us. In that context it can never be justified to destroy a book that Muslims regard as sacred, however firmly and profoundly we may disagree with its contents.

The effect of the proposed action on Christians in Muslim-majority contexts is likely to be extremely serious. Already Muslim militants in Indonesia have promised to kill Indonesian Christians if Qur’ans are burned in Florida, and the history of anti-Christian violence in the country suggests that this is not an idle threat. Barnabas partners in Iraq have expressed concern at the probable Muslim backlash against an already beleaguered Iraqi Church. And Christians in numerous other places who live in daily fear of potentially deadly attacks will at once be placed in much greater danger. It cannot be right to exercise our freedom to protest in a way that puts at risk the lives of our brothers and sisters, for whom Christ died.

There is a further risk that Christian minorities may be divided among themselves as churches with links to the West come to be unfairly associated with the action taken in Florida and its destructive consequences. It is important for Christians under pressure to be united, as their division serves only to weaken the Church and increase its vulnerability to Muslim attacks. It is therefore wholly inappropriate to undermine that unity for the sake of an unnecessary, offensive and dangerous gesture.
For these reasons Barnabas Fund urges the Dove World Outreach Centre and its supporters to refrain from burning Qur’ans on the anniversary of 9/11. It invites all Christians instead to join with us in prayer for our persecuted brothers and sisters throughout the world, and that the hatred and violence that endanger them may be overcome by the grace and love of Christ.
Dr Patrick Sookhdeo
International Director
Barnabas Fund
7 September 2010

How is burning the Quran going to achieve this purpose they claim? It does sound more and more like a public stunt, and at the expense of human life in all probability. There are so many more positive things these people could be doing to remember those who lost their lives on 9/11 and for all those who have given so much since.

J.B.
09-09-2010, 05:35 AM
i bet we would get a different reaction out of you if we started talking bad about boxing :wink::laugh::laugh: j/k

You are correct :laugh:

suntereo
09-09-2010, 06:24 AM
Monthly Jihad Report
August, 2010 Jihad Attacks: 196

Countries: 23

Religions: 5

Dead Bodies: 811

Critically Injured: 1602

source -www.thereligionof peace.com

suntereo
09-09-2010, 06:27 AM
Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Sura (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!

Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

Sura (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement


These verses come from five different places in the Qur’an. There are dozens of others scattered throughout that advocate violence in open-ended fashion. There are hundreds more that speak of hatred and hell toward Christians, Jews, and other non-believers. (Is it any wonder that the Muslim world is split largely between those who tacitly support Islamic terror and those who do nothing about it?)

suntereo
09-09-2010, 06:29 AM
More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined

Bonnie
09-09-2010, 06:44 AM
Adamt, it's not about being wimpy or cowardly or bowing down to these radicals; right now, it's more important to do what's right for the people whose lives are in real jeopardy if these nutjobs are riled up unnecessarily.

I think everyone here understands what's behind this church and pastor wanting to burn the Quran on this date. But, them doing this serves no real purpose or good to us and will do nothing to enlighten anyone to Islam and it's dangers one wit. It will only inflame those who need no further incentive to do us more harm. I think it's our duty (moral, civic, both, take your pick) to make sure we don't do anything to make it harder for those serving over there who have already put their lives on the line literally for all of us over here so that we can be safe. I think, at the very least, we should do that for them...do all we can to keep them safe(r). :)

suntereo
09-09-2010, 06:45 AM
AdamT - Is a strong Christian man, with the calling to be in the fight. Admitadly probably a lot more like king David than Jesus the lamb, which is ok considering David is called "a man after God's own heart"

it's easy to view his coursness towards muslims as unloving but in light of the facts posted above maybe we can conceed that he is just focussing his love toward the victims. Adam is a man after all and not able to be all loving and all just at the same time.

Should we burn Quran's? Not if the point is to provoke violence, after all what's the point of provoking someone if they are already punching you. To silence the lies held in it? Might be better to just expose them with the truth.

Here's something to consider though. God has called some to be soldiers and I mean in the litteral go and kill bad guys sense. In that capacity it is helpful to have a clear understanding of evil and who the enemy is.

The Church should be loving and praying. Soldiers should kill as many of the enemy and break as much stuff as possible.... it can get confusing when believers are called to be soldiers.

suntereo
09-09-2010, 06:47 AM
Adamt, it's not about being wimpy or cowardly or bowing down to these radicals; right now, it's more important to do what's right for the people whose lives are in real jeopardy if these nutjobs are riled up unnecessarily.

I think everyone here understands what's behind this church and pastor wanting to burn the Quran on this date. But, them doing this serves no real purpose or good to us and will do nothing to enlighten anyone to Islam and it's dangers one wit. It will only inflame those who need no further incentive to do us more harm. I think it's our duty (moral, civic, both, take your pick) to make sure we don't do anything to make it harder for those serving over there who have already put their lives on the line literally for all of us over here so that we can be safe. I think, at the very least, we should do that for them...do what we can to keep them safe. :)

I was writing while you were posting and wanted to say that I agree with you. Just pointing out that it seems that AdamT would be comfortable "over there" and his perspective comes from that tack

Bonnie
09-09-2010, 07:23 AM
I was writing while you were posting and wanted to say that I agree with you. Just pointing out that it seems that AdamT would be comfortable "over there" and his perspective comes from that tack

I understand and think everything you said in the previous post was very insightful. I have no doubt Adamt would make a fierce soldier. :)

Jonlion
09-09-2010, 07:41 AM
Your General is aksing for people not to burn this.

YOU are a coward who will burn the Koran from you shore on America - I might respect you if you go to Pakistan, burn the Koran and most importantly preach the Gospel.

Until then you are no soldier. And we shall see what happens and see how your concious sits on that.

Well you tell me, what are your thoughts on the Crusades, they saw that Jerusalem was in Muslim hands and thought it was a affront to God and that the lord would want them to win back the Holy Land.

So tell me where do you sit with the Crusaders?

Bonnie
09-09-2010, 07:52 AM
I hope that pastor and his church listen to what General Petraeus said and take it to heart for the sake of our soliders and all the civilian groups/organizations working throughout these muslim countries, Jon. I pray they listen and don't go through with this.

Spiritwalker
09-09-2010, 11:42 AM
Your General is aksing for people not to burn this.

YOU are a coward who will burn the Koran from you shore on America - I might respect you if you go to Pakistan, burn the Koran and most importantly preach the Gospel.


...just my .02.....

I don't see a whole bunch of Muslims buring the American flag in times square either...

County Mike
09-09-2010, 12:25 PM
I don't necessarily agree with the burning because I don't think it will really accomplish anything.

However, I am totally for standing up AGAINST muslims and the way they're trying to take over here.

Chuck
09-09-2010, 01:49 PM
AdamT - Is a strong Christian man, with the calling to be in the fight. Admitadly probably a lot more like king David than Jesus the lamb, which is ok considering David is called "a man after God's own heart"
Is that really what you see or are you just trying to take the high road? How do you discern God calling someone to be in a fight from somebody surrendering to their emotions/flesh and just wanting to be in one?

it's easy to view his coursness towards muslims as unloving but in light of the facts posted above maybe we can conceed that he is just focussing his love toward the victims. Adam is a man after all and not able to be all loving and all just at the same time.
No. I will not concede that in the slightest. It's not his coarseness towards Muslims that's the issue, it's how he treated his brothers and sisters in Christ. The snide comments, sarcasm and insults have nothing to do with somebody who is "focusing love" anywhere. I don't expect anybody to be all loving and all just but I do think we (especially Christians) should be able to disagree in a respectful way.

Should we burn Quran's? Not if the point is to provoke violence, after all what's the point of provoking someone if they are already punching you. To silence the lies held in it? Might be better to just expose them with the truth.
A brilliant point and I could not agree more.

Here's something to consider though. God has called some to be soldiers and I mean in the litteral go and kill bad guys sense. In that capacity it is helpful to have a clear understanding of evil and who the enemy is.
True. And a good soldier has things like emotional maturity, self control and discernment. Good soldiers due their job (including killing if need be) out of a sense of duty, not out of unbridled emotion. What you've seen isn't someone responding to a higher calling to be a soldier. It's someone who (at least in this thread) has shown a lack of Spiritual and emotional maturity and allowed their "feelings" to guide them. Surrendering to our flesh only leads us away from Christ and normally hurts people along the way. :huh:

The Church should be loving and praying. Soldiers should kill as many of the enemy and break as much stuff as possible.... it can get confusing when believers are called to be soldiers.

Nobody on this thread who AdamT lashed out at ever said we should coddle Muslims. Nobody said evil shouldn't be punished. The majority of us simply said this action was unnecessary and endanger US soldiers and citizens. The responses we got were, at the very least, unnecessary.

adamt
09-09-2010, 02:21 PM
Nobody on this thread who AdamT lashed out at ever said we should coddle Muslims. Nobody said evil shouldn't be punished. The majority of us simply said this action was unnecessary and endanger US soldiers and citizens. The responses we got were, at the very least, unnecessary.

lashed out huh, :unsure::huh::blink:

the very first comment you made on this thread had a direct yet underhanded slur

if this simple action endangers us, then maybe all the muslims do need to be killed, the soldiers are in harms way now, i don't fathom how they can get anymore in harms way

what did we do to deserve having the twin towers bombed:huh::unsure-1::blink:, did we mispell muhammad's name and make them mad?

J.B.
09-09-2010, 03:03 PM
the soldiers are in harms way now, i don't fathom how they can get anymore in harms way


I can think of one way....

by burning a bunch of Quran's...:wink:

Chuck
09-09-2010, 03:12 PM
lashed out huh, :unsure::huh::blink:


Well.... let's review..........

you're a pacifist huh

Shame on YOU!!! for harboring and tolerating evil

wow, do you know english? Holy is holy, without sin, if you think the koran is holy, you're a heretic

wow, keep your hormones in check there lady, that wasn't even directed towards you.

and fyi my problem is tolerant sissies that think if we love the muslims enough and pray for them and kiss them and think happy thoughts and by no means do anything to upset them then we will all live happy ever after

i'm pretty sure that is a direct quote from the people in sodom and gommorrah

the year is 2037 and after 7 years of tribulation and a false trinity Christ returns on His White steed to vanquish the dragon and banish satan but wait as He is galloping along with His flaming sword, what's this? Someone runs up along side to tell Him....

and these obviously wiser nobler creatures have finally talked sense into the crazy biggot

no more intolerance for me, nope! Muslims come on in and breed us out!!! Obviously i am wrong and allah isn't satan, allah is just another name for my God, and we can all get along, I don't want to do anything to offend you or your beliefs, because that wouldn't be nice and Jesus said Love one another, even if that means you have to tolerate all their evil

Yes. I think "lashed out" is a fair description.


the very first comment you made on this thread had a direct yet underhanded slur
I think slur is a bit of a stretch. The first thing I did was ask you a few questions to which you responded with typical sarcasm and attitude. I implied that you were simple minded, and I believe your actions and stance in this thread would support that. It's too bad you can't see the forrest through the trees.

if this simple action endangers us, then maybe all the muslims do need to be killed, the soldiers are in harms way now, i don't fathom how they can get anymore in harms way
It's really too bad you can't see this....yet it's right there in front of you.

what did we do to deserve having the twin towers bombed:huh::unsure-1::blink:, did we mispell muhammad's name and make them mad?
You see that's the very point Adam... we did NOTHING to deserve 9/11 yet they did it anyway. With no provocation the carried out a plan to kill thousands of innocent Americans simply because of their hate and misguided "duty". How much worse do you think it will be for US citizens and our soldiers if we burn their holy book and give them reason and motivation to strike again?

It's NOT about being fearful of the terrorists it's about wisdom and discretion. The best way to dispose of a hornets nest isn't to enrage all the hornets then attempt to remove it... remove it when they're calm... less angry... SAME result... less casualties.

Chuck
09-09-2010, 03:13 PM
I can think of one way....

by burning a bunch of Quran's...:wink:

Ya think? :duh:

J.B.
09-09-2010, 03:24 PM
The best way to dispose of a hornets nest isn't to enrage all the hornets then attempt to remove it... remove it when they're calm... less angry... SAME result... less casualties.

This reminds me of a hilarious story.

When I was about 8 years old, my best friend Tony and I came across a nest of bees that was built into the ground in the alley behind our houses. We wanted to get rid of it, but we were just dumb kids. So, after standing there for about 10 minutes thinking about what we were gonna do with it, I took a shovel and drove it right into the heart of the nest and split it into two...

Needless to say, about a million bees flew out and attacked us. I ran like Usain Bolt and managed to escape with only one sting to the right side of my face, but my friend Tony was not so lucky. He was stung over 70 times and had to be rushed to the emergency room. To this day he is still allergic to bee stings, but we laugh so hard anytime it comes up. In fact, I think I'll give him a call today. :laugh:

County Mike
09-09-2010, 03:30 PM
This reminds me of a hilarious story.

When I was about 8 years old, my best friend Tony and I came across a nest of bees that was built into the ground in the alley behind our houses. We wanted to get rid of it, but we were just dumb kids. So, after standing there for about 10 minutes thinking about what we were gonna do with it, I took a shovel and drove it right into the heart of the nest and split it into two...

Needless to say, about a million bees flew out and attacked us. I ran like Usain Bolt and managed to escape with only one sting to the right side of my face, but my friend Tony was not so lucky. He was stung over 70 times and had to be rushed to the emergency room. To this day he is still allergic to bee stings, but we laugh so hard anytime it comes up. In fact, I think I'll give him a call today. :laugh:

Great story.

I tried to take out a hornets nest with a paintball gun before. I could shoot pretty fast and I tore a lot of those suckers up, but it was like Normandy. There were just too many and I had to retreat. I even used smoke bombs but that just seemed to make them angrier.

adamt
09-09-2010, 03:39 PM
You see that's the very point Adam... we did NOTHING to deserve 9/11 yet they did it anyway. With no provocation the carried out a plan to kill thousands of innocent Americans simply because of their hate and misguided "duty". How much worse do you think it will be for US citizens and our soldiers if we burn their holy book and give them reason and motivation to strike again?

It's NOT about being fearful of the terrorists it's about wisdom and discretion. The best way to dispose of a hornets nest isn't to enrage all the hornets then attempt to remove it... remove it when they're calm... less angry... SAME result... less casualties.

wow wow wow, seriously???

they attack us, we didn't deserve, so we pander up to them so it doesn't happen again??

that reminds me of a funny story, a woman started getting abused, then she stayed with the man until there was a "calm" time to leave him so not to arouse his anger, then one day she got beat again, but it was her own fault, cause she burned his koran, so though she didn't deserve it the first time, she did the next time, but don't worry she listened to her good friends advice:




It's NOT about being fearful of the {woman beater} it's about wisdom and discretion. The best way to dispose of a hornets nest isn't to enrage all the hornets then attempt to remove it... remove it when they're calm... less angry... SAME result... less casualties.


so the woman waited and behaved like good lil property and now she's living happily ever after......in heaven:angel:

J.B.
09-09-2010, 03:39 PM
it was like Normandy. There were just too many and I had to retreat.

:laugh:

That's a great comparison. I still can't believe I escaped with only one sting, but I took off almost immediately and was screaming to RUN. My buddy was kinda shocked at the site of so many bees hovering above us and that was ultimately his downfall.

adamt
09-09-2010, 03:41 PM
Great story.

I tried to take out a hornets nest with a paintball gun before. I could shoot pretty fast and I tore a lot of those suckers up, but it was like Normandy. There were just too many and I had to retreat. I even used smoke bombs but that just seemed to make them angrier.

wow, i laughted out loud, why do i imagine you laughing like a crazy person while shooting madly all while getting stung all over

Chuck
09-09-2010, 03:55 PM
wow wow wow, seriously???

they attack us, we didn't deserve, so we pander up to them so it doesn't happen again??


How is choosing not to burn their holy book pandering to them?


And you're really going to compare a woman in an abusive relationship to terrorists attacking America?

I don't know who that's more insulting to.. women who have been victims of domestic violence or those who have died as a result of terrorist? :huh:

Wisdom and discretion Adam...

Chuck
09-09-2010, 03:56 PM
This reminds me of a hilarious story.

When I was about 8 years old, my best friend Tony and I came across a nest of bees that was built into the ground in the alley behind our houses. We wanted to get rid of it, but we were just dumb kids. So, after standing there for about 10 minutes thinking about what we were gonna do with it, I took a shovel and drove it right into the heart of the nest and split it into two...

Needless to say, about a million bees flew out and attacked us. I ran like Usain Bolt and managed to escape with only one sting to the right side of my face, but my friend Tony was not so lucky. He was stung over 70 times and had to be rushed to the emergency room. To this day he is still allergic to bee stings, but we laugh so hard anytime it comes up. In fact, I think I'll give him a call today. :laugh:

Good story... so let's see...

Do you think you and your friend were in MORE or LESS danger AFTER you provoked them?

Blade
09-09-2010, 03:57 PM
These people planning to burn these books clearly haven't thought this through properly...it's better to burn down a mosque or two, that way you burn plenty of Qurans without having to buy them first, simple really.

J.B.
09-09-2010, 04:05 PM
Good story... so let's see...

Do you think you and your friend were in MORE or LESS danger AFTER you provoked them?

I would definitely say MORE danger, but to be fair a shovel to the nest is more akin to a terrorist attack than burning honeycombs, so a counter attack by the bees was imminent. :laugh:

matthughesfan21
09-09-2010, 05:16 PM
I don't necessarily agree with the burning because I don't think it will really accomplish anything.

However, I am totally for standing up AGAINST muslims and the way they're trying to take over here.I agree completely, but this stunt accomplishes absolutely nothing. This is not the proper way of standing up against muslims and this will do nothing to change what problems Islam already causes in this country...I think this pastor knows it will accomplish nothing and is pushing forward despite millions of people telling him no...IMO this is nothing more than a publicity stunt. This man is willing to prioritize his popularity over the lives of soldier's in the middle east. He is also willing to go against the teachings of Jesus in order to get some face time

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 05:45 PM
you're a pacifist huh

i would like to have been there when you were telling the founding fathers that while they were throwing your queens tea overboard in boston harbor a couple hundred years ago, i can tell for sure those on here that would have been no help gaining our independance, cause they are too worried about tolerance


i hate evil and am proud of it, i ain't gonna pussyfoot around evil and evil people,
there are those on here that would like to condemn jesus for throwing over the money tables in the temple, i guess they would try to quote back to him what he said and you quoted to me just now

Shame on YOU!!! for harboring and tolerating evil

You dont know what Evil is, thats my whole bloody point

The GOD of Abraham says what is Evil...and he also orders you to deal with it in a certain way. Do you want me to post for the second time of hearing what The Lord Almighty says you should do??

Of are you saying you know better???

...if you felt so strongly about fighting for your country, why, pray tell, are you not out on the front right now??

...and when you are the begotton Son of GOD, you too, may overturn the tables of the money clerks in the Temple...Part of your foolishness is iterated in the vein attack on my heratage in the first paragraph of your response.

What do you think GOD is? some kinda democrasy where AdamT gets to decide how to crusade against Islam? GOD is a KING...He's a Monarch...He says Jump...YOU SAY How High....you dont have the right to question his methods, you dont have the right to compare your view of evil and what to do with it, to his. He leads, YOU FOLLOW...or else he will punish you, like he will punish your foes.

Those words I challenged you on...they were not mine...they were Biblical scriptures. No true man of GOD would deliberatley contradict and be proud of contradiction the scriptures. I dont care if you think that means I "harbour" the enemy, or that I am cowardly. I am doing what I am told to do. You would be wise to do likewise. My GOD wont stand by and watch people sin forever. His Patiences is not everlasting, one day Judgement will come...and you best be seen doing what he says, or you will pay a very similar price to the people you hate.

He is a dictator, he defines what is right and what is wrong, he defines what is just and what is false. He alone gives Freedom, and its Freedom as he defines it. What he says, goes, period. Dont say I didnt warn you.

suntereo
09-09-2010, 06:04 PM
Good story... so let's see...

Do you think you and your friend were in MORE or LESS danger AFTER you provoked them?


your thought line or fear of provoking muslims is flawed. They are provoked by their Quran. Please look at my posts earlier citing the amount of attacks in one month by Muslims and the "verses" from the Quran THEY cite as provocation. Burning Qurans obviously will not "provoke" them then. They have attempted to attack us on our shores at least twice a year since 9/11 so saying it will cause them to attack us should be read as "attack us more?" I still am not a proponent of quran burning but am slightly indifferent for the reasons stated. If Americans feel they need to protest and vent then they have that right. The American flag and Christian Bible are burnt on American soil all the time, and yes I have witnessed it.

Petreaus feels burning the Quran would have negative results because he is following a policy of appeasement in the middle east which it seems you agree with. History and the resolve of the Muslim shows that his policy is flawed. In my opinion. My thoughts are deterent ie. kick their a$$ so bad they dont want to fight anymore.

I'm not sure if you were calling me a coward and saying that I'm not a soldier earlier but if you were you are sorely mistaken. I am not only a veteran but still involved in the war effort thru my business endeavors. I wont get sucked into your name calling but want to warn you that calling me a coward and discreditting my service to the nation is seriously out of line.

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 06:04 PM
AdamT - Is a strong Christian man, with the calling to be in the fight.

No. He is not.

He is not a Christian Warrior in any shape or form. Again, read where I wrote about Christian Martyrdom! He is an angry and bitter person, who has selfishly shown no thought for how such an action would endanger others. He Doesnt do as GOD commands, He doesnt even know what sin and evil are. He has a nasty little opinion which threatens to tarnish good Christian Soldiers.

If you aggree with him, you are the same. I make Zero appologies for this statement, and I refuse to retract it. Praise GOD the TRUE Christians on the forum can understand right from wrong. I pray earnestly that GOD somehow intervene to stop this from happening on Saturday, and if not, to punish, harshly, all those who aggree with such an abhorant and unGODly reckoning. I pray that GOD keeps those Troops you have in harms way, out of danger, may he Confound the politics and frustrate the knavish tricks of the islamists in the American midst....and I ask him to forgive the anger shown by idiots holding such dangerous views, and not to hold it against them by permitting further attacks on Western Countries.

Have you or He even been a party to these attacks? Could you have been in the WTC or on a Bus when the Bombers struck London or New York? I changed my shift, but there was a Christian Woman killed on the Tavistock bus bomb...and her parents were interviewed the same day she died, her blood splashed against the sides of the city square, and they said they forgave the bombers because that is what Jesus demanded of them, that they forgive others in the same manner he forgives them.

I have never been so dissapointed in a few individuals I thought were descent and GODly individuals on this forum.

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 06:08 PM
what did we do to deserve having the twin towers bombed:huh::unsure-1::blink:, did we mispell muhammad's name and make them mad?

Dont mock. The guy who in the Baltic portrayed the Prophet in an unsightly cartoon, had a Fatwa invoked.

You ask that question and cant see what might be the results if this burning goes ahead. if you dont know your enemy, you cant fight him. You dont know the first thing about any of this...thats what is so alarming

Bonnie
09-09-2010, 06:09 PM
wow wow wow, seriously???

they attack us, we didn't deserve, so we pander up to them so it doesn't happen again??

that reminds me of a funny story, a woman started getting abused, then she stayed with the man until there was a "calm" time to leave him so not to arouse his anger, then one day she got beat again, but it was her own fault, cause she burned his koran, so though she didn't deserve it the first time, she did the next time, but don't worry she listened to her good friends advice:



so the woman waited and behaved like good lil property and now she's living happily ever after......in heaven:angel:

You didn't tell us about the women who did leave or attempted to leave their abusive husband or boyfriend, Adamt. You know the woman who went to the police, got a restraining order and did everything she was told to do, but one morning her husband followed her to work and shot her dead in the parking lot. Or what about the woman who left with her children and went to a women's shelter, but her husband found out where they were and killed her. Or hey, what about the woman who did fight back and killed the SOB, but the court said she didn't do it right; she needed to wait when he was awake and beating the shyte out of her to make it legal...so now she's spending the rest of her life in prison with no possibility for parole.

I can tell you're an expert on women, Adamt. From our hormones to what we should do if/when we find ourselves in an abusive situation. Please, do enlighten us with more of your wisdom regarding us hormone-crazed, weak, stupid, we-deserve-it women.

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 06:11 PM
These people planning to burn these books clearly haven't thought this through properly...it's better to burn down a mosque or two, that way you burn plenty of Qurans without having to buy them first, simple really.

:laugh::laugh:

BLADE :angry: dont put thoughts into AdamTs head :unsure-1:

County Mike
09-09-2010, 06:12 PM
Some people have a different definition of "Christian warrior". I might be a little in the middle on this one, but I don't think AdamT is that far off.

Stand up for what you believe in. Don't sit back and watch them take over just because provoking them would be "un-christian". I strongly believe that self-defense is OK an ANY situation is this is pretty darn close to self-defense. We need to defend ourselves against an obvious and persistant enemy that call themselves Muslims.

suntereo
09-09-2010, 06:15 PM
No. He is not.

Have you or He even been a party to these attacks? Could you have been in the WTC or on a Bus when the Bombers struck London or New York? I changed my shift, but there was a Christian Woman killed on the Tavistock bus bomb...and her parents were interviewed the same day she died, her blood splashed against the sides of the city square, and they said they forgave the bombers because that is what Jesus demanded of them, that they forgive others in the same manner he forgives them.

I have never been so dissapointed in a few individuals I thought were descent and GODly individuals on this forum.

in short - yes and I dont owe you details
my wife is much like the parents you describe. For much of my life however I have been called to take arms. Both of us are secure in our calling and salvation.

I dont know AdamT well enough to doubt his calling or salvation. I'm supprised you do.

County Mike
09-09-2010, 06:16 PM
Good story... so let's see...

Do you think you and your friend were in MORE or LESS danger AFTER you provoked them?

Immediately : More danger.

After the nest was destroyed and the attack subsided: Less danger.

suntereo
09-09-2010, 06:20 PM
Some people have a different definition of "Christian warrior". I might be a little in the middle on this one, but I don't think AdamT is that far off.

Stand up for what you believe in. Don't sit back and watch them take over just because provoking them would be "un-christian". I strongly believe that self-defense is OK an ANY situation is this is pretty darn close to self-defense. We need to defend ourselves against an obvious and persistant enemy that call themselves Muslims.

you understand AdamT but chose to exercise restraint and focus? Provocation is at theonset of a conflict - we are way past that? If this is your stance than we are on the same page.

County Mike
09-09-2010, 06:26 PM
you understand AdamT but chose to exercise restraint and focus? Provocation is at theonset of a conflict - we are way past that? If this is your stance than we are on the same page.

I believe we're at the point that SOMETHING needs to be done. I just don't think burning books is that thing. The first thing we need to do is remove the muslim (or at the very least, muslim sympathizer) from office. Even if that only means voting him out in 2012. I'd prefer to get rid of him sooner but not sure how we can accomplish that short of assasination. I'm not quite ready to condone assasination of a US President.

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 06:26 PM
in short - yes and I dont owe you details
my wife is much like the parents you describe. For much of my life however I have been called to take arms. Both of us are secure in our calling and salvation.

I dont know AdamT well enough to doubt his calling or salvation. I'm supprised you do.

Burning Qurans does not equate to being "called to take arms"

Sorry...if AdamT wants to play that game, then let him...its called The United States Military...of course..we've also discovered AdamT doesnt like being told what to do by a Higher Authority like GOD...If he cant take Orders, he is no use as a soldier.

GOD has given the Battle Orders...AdamT completely dissagreed with them. Its not Rocket science to say someone who thinks Burning Qurans serves any purpose but to annoy the Islamists, and refuses to acknowledge the Bible on Evil is not a Christian...this isnt interpretation...this is outright contradiction.

So who do you aggree with? AdamT?? or the GOD of the Bible...whose words can be seen written in my first responce to Adam, aptly named if you pardon the pun. Your response really only need be a single word of reply.

Bonnie
09-09-2010, 06:34 PM
No. He is not.

He is not a Christian Warrior in any shape or form. Again, read where I wrote about Christian Martyrdom! He is an angry and bitter person, who has selfishly shown no thought for how such an action would endanger others. He Doesnt do as GOD commands, He doesnt even know what sin and evil are. He has a nasty little opinion which threatens to tarnish good Christian Soldiers.

If you aggree with him, you are the same. I make Zero appologies for this statement, and I refuse to retract it. Praise GOD the TRUE Christians on the forum can understand right from wrong. I pray earnestly that GOD somehow intervene to stop this from happening on Saturday, and if not, to punish, harshly, all those who aggree with such an abhorant and unGODly reckoning. I pray that GOD keeps those Troops you have in harms way, out of danger, may he Confound the politics and frustrate the knavish tricks of the islamists in the American midst....and I ask him to forgive the anger shown by idiots holding such dangerous views, and not to hold it against them by permitting further attacks on Western Countries.

Have you or He even been a party to these attacks? Could you have been in the WTC or on a Bus when the Bombers struck London or New York? I changed my shift, but there was a Christian Woman killed on the Tavistock bus bomb...and her parents were interviewed the same day she died, her blood splashed against the sides of the city square, and they said they forgave the bombers because that is what Jesus demanded of them, that they forgive others in the same manner he forgives them.

I have never been so dissapointed in a few individuals I thought were descent and GODly individuals on this forum.

I think Suntereo was honestly trying to do good and present us with a different look of where Adamt is coming from, and I honestly wanted to give Adamt the benefit of the doubt, really I did. But after yet another blatantly disrespectful comment about women (his "funny" story :angry:), his obvious disdainful opinion of women.... :no:.... he doesn't deserve (to use his words) the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Sorry, Suntereo, I know you tried... :wink:

suntereo
09-09-2010, 06:35 PM
Burning Qurans does not equate to being "called to take arms"

Sorry...if AdamT wants to play that game, then let him...its called The United States Military...of course..we've also discovered AdamT doesnt like being told what to do by a Higher Authority like GOD...If he cant take Orders, he is no use as a soldier.

GOD has given the Battle Orders...AdamT completely dissagreed with them. Its not Rocket science to say someone who thinks Burning Qurans serves any purpose but to annoy the Islamists, and refuses to acknowledge the Bible on Evil is not a Christian...this isnt interpretation...this is outright contradiction.

So who do you aggree with? AdamT?? or the GOD of the Bible...whose words can be seen written in my first responce to Adam, aptly named if you pardon the pun. Your response really only need be a single word of reply.

to spell it out for you. when i say that I was called to arms I mean that I HAVE BEEN A SOLDIER MOST OF MY LIFE AND AM STILL INVOLVED IN THE WAR EFFORT AS A CIVILIAN. so I am being litteral, your inability to understand this underscores your inability to see my point of view.

If you believe pacifism as the only Godly response to evil, then no we do not agree. I have stated on every post that I do not agree with burning the quran but not for many of the reasons you have stated.

suntereo
09-09-2010, 06:36 PM
I believe we're at the point that SOMETHING needs to be done. I just don't think burning books is that thing. The first thing we need to do is remove the muslim (or at the very least, muslim sympathizer) from office. Even if that only means voting him out in 2012. I'd prefer to get rid of him sooner but not sure how we can accomplish that short of assasination. I'm not quite ready to condone assasination of a US President.

this!

suntereo
09-09-2010, 06:39 PM
I think Suntereo was honestly trying to do good and present us with a different look of where Adamt is coming from, and I honestly wanted to give Adamt the benefit of the doubt, really I did. But after yet another blatantly disrespectful comment about women (his "funny" story :angry:), his obvious disdainful opinion of women.... :no:.... he doesn't deserve (to use his words) the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Sorry, Suntereo, I know you tried... :wink:

thanks - I have served with lot's of coarse guys like Adam. They dont fit in well at my wifes parties but are very usefull in others.... kinda like tanks

Jonlion
09-09-2010, 06:45 PM
...just my .02.....

I don't see a whole bunch of Muslims buring the American flag in times square either...

And who calls them brave?

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 06:45 PM
to spell it out for you. when i say that I was called to arms I mean that I HAVE BEEN A SOLDIER MOST OF MY LIFE AND AM STILL INVOLVED IN THE WAR EFFORT AS A CIVILIAN. so I am being litteral, your inability to understand this underscores your inability to see my point of view.

If you believe pacifism as the only Godly response to evil, then no we do not agree. I have stated on every post that I do not agree with burning the quran but not for many of the reasons you have stated.

I dont believe in pacifism. BUT neither do I believe in some stupid publicity stunt which will do more harm then good. I advocate doing NOTHING on 9/11 because it is a Solemnity...a Memorial Day, it should be consecrated to the memory of those who were killed...nothing to do with Islam, evil, retaliation, justice or politics...its about normal human beings who died and should be remembered.

As for taking up arms. I think the almost all your problems would be sorted overnight if your Government, and your people, actually upheld the Constitution in the context it was written, where it applies to the possibility of Islam at home...and in terms of Islam abroad...what is most important is to understand how Islam Functions on a fanatical basis...know the mind of your enemy intimately...then the war is over before any battle begins.

I didnt intend to be so mean to you personally, you kinda got a cross fire shot because I am EXTREMELY upset about AdamT

Bonnie
09-09-2010, 07:02 PM
thanks - I have served with lot's of coarse guys like Adam. They dont fit in well at my wifes parties but are very usefull in others.... kinda like tanks

Thank you for your service and all that you still do... :)

suntereo
09-09-2010, 07:26 PM
I dont believe in pacifism. BUT neither do I believe in some stupid publicity stunt which will do more harm then good. I advocate doing NOTHING on 9/11 because it is a Solemnity...a Memorial Day, it should be consecrated to the memory of those who were killed...nothing to do with Islam, evil, retaliation, justice or politics...its about normal human beings who died and should be remembered.

As for taking up arms. I think the almost all your problems would be sorted overnight if your Government, and your people, actually upheld the Constitution in the context it was written, where it applies to the possibility of Islam at home...and in terms of Islam abroad...what is most important is to understand how Islam Functions on a fanatical basis...know the mind of your enemy intimately...then the war is over before any battle begins.

I didnt intend to be so mean to you personally, you kinda got a cross fire shot because I am EXTREMELY upset about AdamT

good post and thank you

suntereo
09-09-2010, 07:28 PM
Thank you for your service and all that you still do... :)

:ashamed: - aw schucks

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 07:37 PM
good post and thank you

Your welcome, and I'm sorry :ashamed:

adamt
09-09-2010, 08:41 PM
You didn't tell us about the women who did leave or attempted to leave their abusive husband or boyfriend, Adamt. You know the woman who went to the police, got a restraining order and did everything she was told to do, but one morning her husband followed her to work and shot her dead in the parking lot. Or what about the woman who left with her children and went to a women's shelter, but her husband found out where they were and killed her. Or hey, what about the woman who did fight back and killed the SOB, but the court said she didn't do it right; she needed to wait when he was awake and beating the shyte out of her to make it legal...so now she's spending the rest of her life in prison with no possibility for parole.

I can tell you're an expert on women, Adamt. From our hormones to what we should do if/when we find ourselves in an abusive situation. Please, do enlighten us with more of your wisdom regarding us hormone-crazed, weak, stupid, we-deserve-it women.

do you know what tongue in cheek is?

are you actually saying that you would stay with someone that abused you because you are scared he will hunt you down and kill you if you left???


or that you wouldn't defend yourself cause the court might not side with you?????:unsure-1::unsure-1::blink::blink::huh::huh:

i'm sorry but if you wouldn't leave an abusive situation then maybe you are weak

and if you didn't follow the thread enough to know my post was a sarcastic retort then that's too bad

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 08:42 PM
An interesting take on Christian Warfare

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2eXoMBu6CY

The earth is full of anger,
The seas are dark with wrath,
The Nations in their harness
Go up against our path:
Ere yet we loose the legions --
Ere yet we draw the blade,
Jehovah of the Thunders,
Lord God of Battles, aid!

High lust and froward bearing,
Proud heart, rebellious brow --
Deaf ear and soul uncaring,
We seek Thy mercy now!
The sinner that forswore Thee,
The fool that passed Thee by,
Our times are known before Thee --
Lord, grant us strength to die!

For those who kneel beside us
At altars not Thine own,
Who lack the lights that guide us,
Lord, let their faith atone.
If wrong we did to call them,
By honour bound they came;
Let not Thy Wrath befall them,
But deal to us the blame.

From panic, pride, and terror,
Revenge that knows no rein,
Light haste and lawless error,
Protect us yet again.
Cloak Thou our undeserving,
Make firm the shuddering breath,
In silence and unswerving
To taste Thy lesser death!

Ah, Mary pierced with sorrow,
Remember, reach and save
The soul that comes to-morrow
Before the God that gave!
Since each was born of woman,
For each at utter need --
True comrade and true foeman --
Madonna, intercede!

E'en now their vanguard gathers,
E'en now we face the fray --
As Thou didst help our fathers,
Help Thou our host to-day!
Fulfilled of signs and wonders,
In life, in death made clear --
Jehovah of the Thunders,
Lord God of Battles, hear!

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 08:47 PM
do you know what tongue in cheek is?

are you actually saying that you would stay with someone that abused you because you are scared he will hunt you down and kill you if you left???


or that you wouldn't defend yourself cause the court might not side with you?????:unsure-1::unsure-1::blink::blink::huh::huh:

i'm sorry but if you wouldn't leave an abusive situation then maybe you are weak

and if you didn't follow the thread enough to know my post was a sarcastic retort then that's too bad

Be nice to Bonnie. She is a friend of mine. :ninja:

adamt
09-09-2010, 08:56 PM
I can think of one way....

by burning a bunch of Quran's...:wink:


i was wondering how they could put their life any more at risk, aren't they already in danger?

How is choosing not to burn their holy book pandering to them?
you're the one that said don't do it cause it might provoke em

And you're really going to compare a woman in an abusive relationship to terrorists attacking America?isn't an abusive man like a terrorist on a smaller scale?

I don't know who that's more insulting to.. women who have been victims of domestic violence or those who have died as a result of terrorist? :huh:yeah, that's a good tactic, change the topic and avoid the real issue and try to insult my masculinity:wink:

...

You dont know what Evil is,oh, and the all knowing dave does i suppose thats my whole bloody point

The GOD of Abraham says what is Evil...and he also orders you to deal with it in a certain way. Do you want me to post for the second time of hearing what The Lord Almighty says you should do??

Of are you saying you know better???

...if you felt so strongly about fighting for your country, why, pray tell, are you not out on the front right now??where do you come up with this stuff????? i think merely it ain't none of your business what a guy in florida does, as long as it ain't illegal, you all started judging him

...and when you are the begotton Son of GOD, you too, may overturn the tables of the money clerks in the Temple...Part of your foolishness is iterated in the vein attack on my heratage in the first paragraph of your response.

What do you think GOD is? some kinda democrasy where AdamT gets to decide how to crusade against Islam? GOD is a KING...He's a Monarch...He says Jump...YOU SAY How High....you dont have the right to question his methods, you dont have the right to compare your view of evil and what to do with it, to his. He leads, YOU FOLLOW...or else he will punish you, like he will punish your foes.dave you need to take intro to debate and learn to stay on topic and make poignant points

Those words I challenged you on...they were not mine...they were Biblical scriptures. No true man of GOD would deliberatley contradict and be proud of contradiction the scriptures. I dont care if you think that means I "harbour" the enemy, or that I am cowardly. I am doing what I am told to do. You would be wise to do likewise. My GOD wont stand by and watch people sin forever. His Patiences is not everlasting, one day Judgement will come...and you best be seen doing what he says, or you will pay a very similar price to the people you hate.

He is a dictator, he defines what is right and what is wrong,and homosexuality is wrong right? he defines what is just and what is false. He alone gives Freedom, and its Freedom as he defines it. What he says, goes, period. Dont say I didnt warn you.


he tells us to eschew evil as well, not harbor it
No. He is not.and i guess you are huh

He is not a Christian Warrior in any shape or form.again, mighty strong words for someone who claims to be meek and loving Again, read where I wrote about Christian Martyrdom! He is an angry and bitter person, and you know this how?who has selfishly shown no thought for how such an action would endanger others. He Doesnt do as GOD commands, He doesnt even know what sin and evil arei guess if you just make up enough bad things to say about someone , eventually some dummy will buy into huh, is that what they teach in british debate?. He has a nasty little opinion which threatens to tarnish good Christian Soldiers.

If you aggree with him, you are the same. I make Zero appologies for this statement, and I refuse to retract it. Praise GOD the TRUE Christians on the forum can understand right from wrong. I pray earnestly that GOD somehow intervene to stop this from happening on Saturday, and if not, to punish, harshly, all those who aggree with such an abhorant and unGODly reckoning. I pray that GOD keeps those Troops you have in harms way, out of danger, may he Confound the politics and frustrate the knavish tricks of the islamists in the American midst....and I ask him to forgive the anger shown by idiots holding such dangerous views, and not to hold it against them by permitting further attacks on Western Countries.

Have you or He even been a party to these attacks? Could you have been in the WTC or on a Bus when the Bombers struck London or New York? I changed my shift, but there was a Christian Woman killed on the Tavistock bus bomb...and her parents were interviewed the same day she died, her blood splashed against the sides of the city square, and they said they forgave the bombers because that is what Jesus demanded of them, that they forgive others in the same manner he forgives them.

I have never been so dissapointed in a few individuals I thought were descent and GODly individuals on this forumdave, master of lukewarm, hypocritical judgement.

Dont mock. The guy who in the Baltic portrayed the Prophet in an unsightly cartoon, had a Fatwa invoked.so i guess it is his fault muslims are evil, that was my whole point with the abused woman story

You ask that question and cant see what might be the results if this burning goes ahead.the results will be about like the fallout from y2k if you dont know your enemy, you cant fight him. You dont know the first thing about any of this..oh and i suppose you do huh.thats what is so alarming

Burning Qurans does not equate to being "called to take arms"

Sorry...if AdamT wants to play that gamedo you oppose all protests or just the ones against the people that scare you, if i burnt abunch of playboys and made hugh hefner mad, would you react the same way??? i know county mike might not like it :) but i don't think it would garner the same effect, then let him...its called The United States Military...of course..we've also discovered AdamT doesnt like being told what to do by a Higher Authority like GOD...If he cant take Orders, he is no use as a soldier.

GOD has given the Battle Orders...AdamT completely dissagreed with themGod has defined human nature and tyburn has sompletely opposed Him and redefined it. Its not Rocket science to say someone who thinks Burning Qurans serves any purpose but to annoy the Islamists, and refuses to acknowledge the Bible on Evil is not a Christian...this isnt interpretation...this is outright contradiction.

So who do you aggree with? AdamT?? or the GOD of the Bible...whose words can be seen written in my first responce to Adam, aptly named if you pardon the pun. Your response really only need be a single word of reply.

I think Suntereo was honestly trying to do good and present us with a different look of where Adamt is coming from, and I honestly wanted to give Adamt the benefit of the doubt, really I did. But after yet another blatantly disrespectful comment about women (his "funny" story :angry:), his obvious disdainful opinion of women.... :no:.... he doesn't deserve (to use his words) the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Sorry, Suntereo, I know you tried... :wink:

to spell it out for you. when i say that I was called to arms I mean that I HAVE BEEN A SOLDIER MOST OF MY LIFE AND AM STILL INVOLVED IN THE WAR EFFORT AS A CIVILIAN. so I am being litteral, your inability to understand this underscores your inability to see my point of view.

If you believe pacifism as the only Godly response to evil, then no we do not agree. I have stated on every post that I do not agree with burning the quran but not for many of the reasons you have stated.

I dont believe in pacifism. BUT neither do I believe in some stupid publicity stunt which will do more harm then good. I advocate doing NOTHING on 9/11 because it is a Solemnity...a Memorial Day, it should be consecrated to the memory of those who were killed...nothing to do with Islam, evil, retaliation, justice or politics...its about normal human beings who died and should be remembered.

As for taking up arms. I think the almost all your problems would be sorted overnight if your Government, and your people, actually upheld the Constitution in the context it was written, where it applies to the possibility of Islam at home...and in terms of Islam abroad...what is most important is to understand how Islam Functions on a fanatical basis...know the mind of your enemy intimately...then the war is over before any battle begins.

I didnt intend to be so mean to you personally, you kinda got a cross fire shot because I am EXTREMELY upset about AdamT

well, one thing is for sure, without guys like county mike and suntero this country would still be speaking with a british accent, or worse in french

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 09:01 PM
[/COLOR]


without guys like county mike and suntero this country would still be speaking with a british accent, or worse in french

Neither of which support your views on book burning.

Your Honour, I rest my case :wink:

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 09:29 PM
"oh, and the all knowing dave does i suppose "

of course I know. Its not that difficult when you can read the Holy Scriptures :)

"where do you come up with this stuff????? i think merely it ain't none of your business what a guy in florida does, as long as it ain't illegal, you all started judging him"

Damn right I'm judging him when he claims to speak for Christians. When he claims to speak for GOD and condones and act clearly in defiance of Scripture. Its called "Rebuking in love" :)

"dave you need to take intro to debate and learn to stay on topic and make poignant points"

But it is relivent. You cant just abandon scripture coz your feelings are hurt by the mean Islamists. GOD isnt going to score you on good intentions when he's told you clearly in the bible...that your view is wrong.

"and homosexuality is wrong right?"

Thats really relevent? see your sarcasm, and tongue in cheek shyte doesnt wash here. You look like a twat. As for the answer to the above...well you would know where I stand on that if you'd bothered to read about my struggle. This kinda attack is about as immature as the book burning ideal...now you've made yourself look like a plonker for straight out attacking me because im English, and because I suffer from SSA :rolleyes:

and i guess you are huh

Yes, Yes I am :happydancing:

again, mighty strong words for someone who claims to be meek and loving

I never claimed to be a pacifist. That was your mistaken and uneducated view. Really, I post here so often, the only excuse for not knowing what I'm like is sheer laziness :laugh:

and you know this how?

You may not read me before replying...but I read you. I could argue your side of this, and I could do it better then you also. :ninja: FAR BETTER.

arei guess if you just make up enough bad things to say about someone , eventually some dummy will buy into huh, is that what they teach in british debate?

"Debate" isnt taught in school. You dont need to teach a Brit how to assert an opinion, that comes naturally. you just need the right forum and the reserved standby nature will evaporate. Try viewing prime ministers Question time...makes your Government look a set of school presentations :laugh: We really are no nonsence in all the places where it counts :wink:

dave, master of lukewarm, hypocritical judgement

:laugh: flattery will get you nowhere :ashamed:

so i guess it is his fault muslims are evil, that was my whole point with the abused woman story

No, its a mute point. Its very rude to portray any religious ikon crudely. If you had respect for your fellow man, you would treat his sensabilities with care, you should respect him, he is made in the image of GOD...and was sworne by GOD to be given a mighty Nation, especially if you know that he has a bad temper, anger management issues, and no self control. Instead, as he acts like a child, you treat him as such.

the results will be about like the fallout from y2k

Maybe...maybe not. You wont be laughing if another successful terrorist attack kills innoncents, and the Evil cites vengance on the book burners. If that happens, I wont forget this conversation.

oh and i suppose you do huh

I have considerable experience with Islam, not all of it pleasent.

do you oppose all protests or just the ones against the people that scare you, if i burnt abunch of playboys and made hugh hefner mad, would you react the same way??? i know county mike might not like it but i don't think it would garner the same effect

I dont support any wanton destruction of property, but I almost always support protests...but I dont see a protest. What is your aim? what are you trying to achieve? nothing...burning their books will do zero good, and maybe a lot of bad. its not a protest...its a childish two finger gesture...Really, quite benieth me, most monsterous and dissagreeable...I dont like to waste time. (except on here :laugh: )

God has defined human nature and tyburn has sompletely opposed Him and redefined it.

You do know, I am not practising as a gay? I struggle with the feelings, thats all. So I havent opposed, infact I am supressing what I would like to do, in order to do what GOD wants....when you reach the same place with your self control and self sacrifice...which this thread is evidence is lacking in your spiritual make up...you get back to me.

Blade
09-09-2010, 10:14 PM
well, one thing is for sure, without guys like county mike and suntero this country would still be speaking with a british accent, or worse in french

Don't despair because it's never too late to learn, I can give you some elocution lessons if you like.

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 10:21 PM
I can give you some elocution lessons if you like.

you speak French :blink::huh::laugh:

Blade
09-09-2010, 10:28 PM
you speak French :blink::huh::laugh:

I got an A at GCSE, does that count? lol

Tyburn
09-09-2010, 10:37 PM
I got an A at GCSE, does that count? lol

Scrub it off your CV this instant :angry:

:laugh: I did German...got a B :w00t:

J.B.
09-09-2010, 10:46 PM
i was wondering how they could put their life any more at risk, aren't they already in danger?



Of course they are already in danger. That's not the point.

Burning a Quran is not going to accomplish anything except pissing off Muslim people. It may seem like you are "fighting evil" by doing so, but you are not. It offers nothing of value except to taunt the enemy at a time when we don't need to do that. The military has enough problems to worry about over there without a new set of pissed off people willing to blow themselves up just because some idiots in Florida had to have a book burning convention.

adamt
09-09-2010, 11:21 PM
Of course they are already in danger. That's not the point.

Burning a Quran is not going to accomplish anything except pissing off Muslim people. It may seem like you are "fighting evil" by doing so, but you are not. It offers nothing of value except to taunt the enemy at a time when we don't need to do that. The military has enough problems to worry about over there without a new set of pissed off people willing to blow themselves up just because some idiots in Florida had to have a book burning convention.

so we reward their spoiledness????

what if the guy was burning the wall street journal??? would you get peeved?

so if i am to understand it correctly we shouldn't do it cause it might make the spoiled kids mad??? well, that is what has me thinking we should do it all the more, why reward their snooty spoiledness???

yeah i know he's a nutjob, but who are we to tell him he shouldn't do it, you guys make more of a case out of this than abortion and homosexuality, and your whole foundation seems to be that he shouldn't do it cause he will make some muslims mad, and i say who cares if they get mad????

and it ain't his fault, it's nightline news show for making a federal deal out of it, they gave him the spotlight, had they not hyped it up no one would have known about it, so if muslims get mad it is abc's fault

you call it taunting evil and i call it showing evil we don't respect them, we don't let them dictate what we do in our own country and wecertainly don't care if they get mad or at least i don't, and anyone that does are the same type of people that gets us into messes like vietnam, where they don't want to hurt nobody's feelings so it's a prolonged diplomatic battle that no one really wins


besides, if the muslims hadn't of attacked us on 9/11 he wouldn't be burning their books, serves em right

J.B.
09-09-2010, 11:33 PM
so we reward their spoiledness????

what if the guy was burning the wall street journal??? would you get peeved?

so if i am to understand it correctly we shouldn't do it cause it might make the spoiled kids mad??? well, that is what has me thinking we should do it all the more, why reward their snooty spoiledness???

yeah i know he's a nutjob, but who are we to tell him he shouldn't do it, you guys make more of a case out of this than abortion and homosexuality, and your whole foundation seems to be that he shouldn't do it cause he will make some muslims mad, and i say who cares if they get mad????

and it ain't his fault, it's nightline news show for making a federal deal out of it, they gave him the spotlight, had they not hyped it up no one would have known about it, so if muslims get mad it is abc's fault

you call it taunting evil and i call it showing evil we don't respect them, we don't let them dictate what we do in our own country and wecertainly don't care if they get mad or at least i don't, and anyone that does are the same type of people that gets us into messes like vietnam, where they don't want to hurt nobody's feelings so it's a prolonged diplomatic battle that no one really wins


besides, if the muslims hadn't of attacked us on 9/11 he wouldn't be burning their books, serves em right

How is NOT acting like a prick and burning the Quran SPOILING anybody? It's just making a choice to not be a prick.

You seem to be incapable of understanding the concept of not pissing them off in the interest of not putting our soldiers in any greater danger than they are already in. I'm sorry, but your entire diatribe here has been based on flawed logic and emotional rants. Nobody on this forum is saying that we need to cater to Muslims, but you seem to want to attempt to justify pissing them off just for the sake of pissing them off.

Who cares about what the risk/reward factor is right? Why use our brains at all? What sense would that make? :rolleyes:

Please, if you can, explain to me what burning a bunch of Qurans accomplishes? Is that going to put an end to Islam? Is it even going to make ONE person convert to Christianity? Is it going to stop any terrorists?

OR is it going to piss off Muslims and put more of our soldiers in danger?

Think about it.

matthughesfan21
09-09-2010, 11:54 PM
so if i am to understand it correctly we shouldn't do it cause it might make the spoiled kids mad??? well, that is what has me thinking we should do it all the more, why reward their snooty spoiledness???

yeah i know he's a nutjob, but who are we to tell him he shouldn't do it, you guys make more of a case out of this than abortion and homosexuality, [B]and your whole foundation seems to be that he shouldn't do it cause he will make some muslims mad, and i say who cares if they get mad????[/B
How many times do we have to say we disagree because its going against the teachings of Jesus? We aren't rewarding them by not burning books, it will accomplish absolutely shyte....We aren't disagreeing with this because we don't wanna hurt their feelings...It has nothing to do with that. I don't give a damn if its the Quran or Dr. Seuss, I don't agree with burning books because it's just childish idiotic behavior that people resort to when they have no good solution for a problem

Seriously, either you are just choosing to ignore what everyone is saying just to try and formulate an argument or you have some of the worst reading comprehension I have ever seen. If it a problem of reading comprehension, just shoot me a pm, I can talk to my english professor and see if he can open up a spot for you

Play The Man
09-10-2010, 12:00 AM
It is likely a moot point as the pastor has just called off the Koran burning . . . However, now Fred Phelps and the ghouls at Westboro "Baptist Church" are threatening to burn a Koran.:rolleyes:

matthughesfan21
09-10-2010, 12:01 AM
It is likely a moot point as the pastor has just called off the Koran burning . . . However, now Fred Phelps and the ghouls at Westboro "Baptist Church" are threatening to burn a Koran.:rolleyes:Does anyone honestly take them seriously?

J.B.
09-10-2010, 12:12 AM
Does anyone honestly take them seriously?

Obviously the 10 people in his following do, but that doesn't matter. If he does it, and the media covers it, there will be outrage somewhere.

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 12:14 AM
It is likely a moot point as the pastor has just called off the Koran burning . . . However, now Fred Phelps and the ghouls at Westboro "Baptist Church" are threatening to burn a Koran.:rolleyes:

Our Prayers have been answered :)

I dont think Westboro Baptist Church is even considered Christian by Islamists :laugh:

adamt
09-10-2010, 12:18 AM
How is NOT acting like a prick and burning the Quran SPOILING anybody? It's just making a choice to not be a prick.

You seem to be incapable of understanding the concept of not pissing them off in the interest of not putting our soldiers in any greater danger than they are already in. I'm sorry, but your entire diatribe here has been based on flawed logic and emotional rants. Nobody on this forum is saying that we need to cater to Muslims, but you seem to want to attempt to justify pissing them off just for the sake of pissing them off.

Who cares about what the risk/reward factor is right? Why use our brains at all? What sense would that make? :rolleyes:

Please, if you can, explain to me what burning a bunch of Qurans accomplishes? Is that going to put an end to Islam? Is it even going to make ONE person convert to Christianity? Is it going to stop any terrorists?

OR is it going to piss off Muslims and put more of our soldiers in danger?

Think about it.

yes but if you think about it that logic can be put towards anything.


tell me how this thread accompolished anything good, it didn't, nothing at all, people are mad, not me, not you, chuck don't get mad, but others do, i don't think you or chuck hold grudges but i think other people prolly will, noone will possibly get saved so anybody that says they are just trying to tell me what jesus said and still argued on here are nothing but hypocrits....... speaking of which.....


How many times do we have to say we disagree because its going against the teachings of Jesus? We aren't rewarding them by not burning books, it will accomplish absolutely shyte....We aren't disagreeing with this because we don't wanna hurt their feelings...It has nothing to do with that. I don't give a damn if its the Quran or Dr. Seuss, I don't agree with burning books because it's just childish idiotic behavior that people resort to when they have no good solution for a problem

Seriously, either you are just choosing to ignore what everyone is saying just to try and formulate an argument or you have some of the worst reading comprehension I have ever seen. If it a problem of reading comprehension, just shoot me a pm, I can talk to my english professor and see if he can open up a spot for you

you are the epitome of Christ's love!!!

and as i just said, how can you partake in this thread while telling me there is no need to partake of things that don't glorify God?

and if you will kindly read J.B.'s post you will most certainly see that it's not all just cause you are trying toget me to believe your rhetoric about Jesus is just a loving brother, not vengeful sin hating God

you and others are also the personification of the lukewarm church, you stand for nothing, and are against nothing, you love all and just want to be good people that listen to Jesus


It is likely a moot point as the pastor has just called off the Koran burning . . . However, now Fred Phelps and the ghouls at Westboro "Baptist Church" are threatening to burn a Koran.:rolleyes:

well i see we had this discussion in vain then didn't we??:sad:

oh well guess we go back to being friends and judging kat von d

cheachea
09-10-2010, 12:21 AM
People seem to forget that standing up to evil is not the same thing as returning evil for evil. Also, not everyone wants to be buddy buddy. Radical Islamic terrorists are going to try and terrorize us if we are friendly or if we are aggressive. They already hate us either way. If you burn a Quran you are burning a demonic book of lies, so what's the problem ? Keep in mind they are going to hate and terrorize us anyway. You have to stand up to bullies PERIOD. ISLAM WILL NEVER STOP TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD. NEVER. You can not use Christian logic with these people because they just don't get it.

adamt
09-10-2010, 12:25 AM
:sign0003::sign0006:



yeah i just wanted to use these cuz they never get used



oh here's a good one that might be applicable,:stirthepot: though i am done posting in here cause my wife is tired of me arguing on here in this thread and i don't blame her, takes too much time and amounts to nothing, so take your low blows and potshots now, cause you can get them in without fear of retort, :tongue0011: but of course you guys won't do that right, cause it wouldn't be practicing what you preach......

it's funny the people that don't even claim to be the best christians on here showed more of christ than the ones that claim to be all knowing biblical scholars

when there's a revolution i hope i get to fight with county mike, jb and suntero even if they don't agree with me




"oh, and the all knowing dave does i suppose "

of course I know. Its not that difficult when you can read the Holy Scriptures :)

"where do you come up with this stuff????? i think merely it ain't none of your business what a guy in florida does, as long as it ain't illegal, you all started judging him"

Damn right I'm judging him when he claims to speak for Christians. When he claims to speak for GOD and condones and act clearly in defiance of Scripture. Its called "Rebuking in love" :)

"dave you need to take intro to debate and learn to stay on topic and make poignant points"

But it is relivent. You cant just abandon scripture coz your feelings are hurt by the mean Islamists. GOD isnt going to score you on good intentions when he's told you clearly in the bible...that your view is wrong.

"and homosexuality is wrong right?"

Thats really relevent? see your sarcasm, and tongue in cheek shyte doesnt wash here. You look like a twat. As for the answer to the above...well you would know where I stand on that if you'd bothered to read about my struggle. This kinda attack is about as immature as the book burning ideal...now you've made yourself look like a plonker for straight out attacking me because im English, and because I suffer from SSA :rolleyes:

and i guess you are huh

Yes, Yes I am :happydancing:

again, mighty strong words for someone who claims to be meek and loving

I never claimed to be a pacifist. That was your mistaken and uneducated view. Really, I post here so often, the only excuse for not knowing what I'm like is sheer laziness :laugh:

and you know this how?

You may not read me before replying...but I read you. I could argue your side of this, and I could do it better then you also. :ninja: FAR BETTER.

arei guess if you just make up enough bad things to say about someone , eventually some dummy will buy into huh, is that what they teach in british debate?

"Debate" isnt taught in school. You dont need to teach a Brit how to assert an opinion, that comes naturally. you just need the right forum and the reserved standby nature will evaporate. Try viewing prime ministers Question time...makes your Government look a set of school presentations :laugh: We really are no nonsence in all the places where it counts :wink:

dave, master of lukewarm, hypocritical judgement

:laugh: flattery will get you nowhere :ashamed:

so i guess it is his fault muslims are evil, that was my whole point with the abused woman story

No, its a mute point. Its very rude to portray any religious ikon crudely. If you had respect for your fellow man, you would treat his sensabilities with care, you should respect him, he is made in the image of GOD...and was sworne by GOD to be given a mighty Nation, especially if you know that he has a bad temper, anger management issues, and no self control. Instead, as he acts like a child, you treat him as such.

the results will be about like the fallout from y2k

Maybe...maybe not. You wont be laughing if another successful terrorist attack kills innoncents, and the Evil cites vengance on the book burners. If that happens, I wont forget this conversation.

oh and i suppose you do huh

I have considerable experience with Islam, not all of it pleasent.

do you oppose all protests or just the ones against the people that scare you, if i burnt abunch of playboys and made hugh hefner mad, would you react the same way??? i know county mike might not like it but i don't think it would garner the same effect

I dont support any wanton destruction of property, but I almost always support protests...but I dont see a protest. What is your aim? what are you trying to achieve? nothing...burning their books will do zero good, and maybe a lot of bad. its not a protest...its a childish two finger gesture...Really, quite benieth me, most monsterous and dissagreeable...I dont like to waste time. (except on here :laugh: )

God has defined human nature and tyburn has sompletely opposed Him and redefined it.

You do know, I am not practising as a gay? I struggle with the feelings, thats all. So I havent opposed, infact I am supressing what I would like to do, in order to do what GOD wants....when you reach the same place with your self control and self sacrifice...which this thread is evidence is lacking in your spiritual make up...you get back to me.

adamt
09-10-2010, 12:27 AM
:sign0081::sign0011::happy0159::party0019:People seem to forget that standing up to evil is not the same thing as returning evil for evil. Also, not everyone wants to be buddy buddy. Radical Islamic terrorists are going to try and terrorize us if we are friendly or if we are aggressive. They already hate us either way. If you burn a Quran you are burning a demonic book of lies, so what's the problem ? Keep in mind they are going to hate and terrorize us anyway. You have to stand up to bullies PERIOD. ISLAM WILL NEVER STOP TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD. NEVER. You can not use Christian logic with these people because they just don't get it.

+100

Blade
09-10-2010, 12:30 AM
Forget book burning, when is a church gonna hold a muslim beard-shearing contest, just like the Aussies do with sheep? Now that would be entertaining.

cheachea
09-10-2010, 12:31 AM
Thanks Adamt. I'm with you on this one Bro. It's really sad that people truly think they are doing the right thing by doing nothing at all, And I promise that I don't mean that as an insult to our Christian friends, I'm just saying.

J.B.
09-10-2010, 12:36 AM
yes but if you think about it that logic can be put towards anything.


tell me how this thread accompolished anything good, it didn't, nothing at all, people are mad, not me, not you, chuck don't get mad, but others do, i don't think you or chuck hold grudges but i think other people prolly will, noone will possibly get saved so anybody that says they are just trying to tell me what jesus said and still argued on here are nothing but hypocrits....... speaking of which.....

No, that logic cannot be applied to anything. It's quite simple, burning a couple hundred Qurans is not going to accomplish any good whatsoever and can actually incite violence that puts people in danger. The entire basis for doing it in the first place is completely stupid, that's my argument. Even if you said you had every Quran in the world it wouldn't matter because the information is already deeply embedded into many societies and of course, on the internet. Are we going to burn down the internet? Burning the Quran does not help us fight the evil that is inside of it.

This thread is part of a discussion forum. A place where people share opinions and have discussions. Sometimes, people have disagreements that turn into arguments. If you are implying that the people around here who disagree with you will not be saved because of a grudge they hold over an argument on this forum, I think you need to give the people around here a bit more credit than that.

J.B.
09-10-2010, 12:38 AM
Thanks Adamt. I'm with you on this one Bro. It's really sad that people truly think they are doing the right thing by doing nothing at all, And I promise that I don't mean that as an insult to our Christian friends, I'm just saying.

Doing SOMETHING for the sake of doing it doesn't make it a wise decision or morally right. Burning Qurans accomplishes nothing and can cause more harm than good.

This is no different than a fighter who has to select his upcoming fight. It's all about "Risk versus Reward".

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 12:41 AM
Thanks Adamt. I'm with you on this one Bro. It's really sad that people truly think they are doing the right thing by doing nothing at all, And I promise that I don't mean that as an insult to our Christian friends, I'm just saying.

I never said do nothing at all.

Your stupid if you think burning a book is doing something to fight radical islam...just plain thick! Its not a protest, because it makes no difference whatsoever.

So why dont you and AdamT go and burn your books somewhere where the majority of good christians on this board dont have to hear you. I suggest Westboro Baptist Church...since Florida has been cancelled.

I find your views, and AdamT views EXTREMELY insulting, dangerous, and stupid, I'm utterly gutted that two patrons I thought were good and descent people, have turned out to be warmongering nitwits who would endanger the life of the REAL soliders against Islam...you know...those who actually go and fight, like several of our forum patrons here...to burn a few books that will change nothing in terms of the spread of islam except strengthen their own justifications and cost lives...GOOD LIVES...HOW DARE YOU risk the lives of people, some of whom are my close friends, for your pointless petty point scoring! have you forgotten that about half the people on this forum are Forces/Exforces, or have some relation to them?? What about Boomer, who has spent nearly a third at least of the whole time ive been on this Forum in Iraq or Afghanistan...doing his bit. Would his life be a worthy trade off for your lunicy!!! You two are a Disgrace, and absolute disgrace, for condoning something that could kill your own troops...I'm just saying.

Now this is a moot point I think someone should consider locking it. I would do it myself...but I cant remember how :ashamed::laugh:

cheachea
09-10-2010, 12:45 AM
Doing SOMETHING for the sake of doing it doesn't make it a wise decision or morally right. Burning Qurans accomplishes nothing and can cause more harm than good.

This is no different than a fighter who has to select his upcoming fight. It's all about "Risk versus Reward".


Hating evil is morally right. Burning a demonic book of lies is morally right. I can agree that it might not be wise at the moment with all the pressure and press, but it's morally right to take a stand against evil. When ever you go against the grain in this disgusting and perverse generation you will always get friction, ALWAYS.

cheachea
09-10-2010, 12:48 AM
Your stupid if you think burning a book is doing something to fight radical islam...just plain thick! Its not a protest, because it makes no difference whatsoever.

Tyburn wrote the text above . I just messed up the quote funtion.


The road is narrow to life buddy. You just called me stupid, so I'm going to take the high road and NOT RETURN EVIL WITH EVIL LOL.

Blade
09-10-2010, 12:57 AM
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr31/edy-dark/MUSLIM.jpg

Bonnie
09-10-2010, 01:21 AM
do you know what tongue in cheek is?

are you actually saying that you would stay with someone that abused you because you are scared he will hunt you down and kill you if you left???


or that you wouldn't defend yourself cause the court might not side with you?????:unsure-1::unsure-1::blink::blink::huh::huh:

i'm sorry but if you wouldn't leave an abusive situation then maybe you are weak

and if you didn't follow the thread enough to know my post was a sarcastic retort then that's too bad

Sorry if I mistook your "tongue in cheek" for something it wasn't.

You were the one trying to make a correlation with that story and this topic. Your point being the woman is weak for not standing up for herself against her abuser and if something happens to her it's her fault, and everyone who doesn't think it's a good idea to burn the Quran are weak pansies not willing to stand up and show those evil muslims what for. Have I got the gist of it yet or am I still missing your point? :wink:

adamt
09-10-2010, 01:35 AM
Sorry if I mistook your "tongue in cheek" for something it wasn't.

You were the one trying to make a correlation with that story and this topic. Your point being the woman is weak for not standing up for herself against her abuser and if something happens to her it's her fault, and everyone who doesn't think it's a good idea to burn the Quran are weak pansies not willing to stand up and show those evil muslims what for. Have I got the gist of it yet or am I still missing your point? :wink:

well i said i prolly wouldn't post on here anymore but since you asked and seem to be legitamately saying this, i will respond

my point was:

it was said that we should wait until islam is "calm" to remove them, not bother them while they are in the throes of jihad(i'm paraphrasing of course),

and i equated it with a woman waiting til a calm time to flee her abusive mate. I was actually just the opposite of what you thought.

I was meaning, though i wasn't clear i was being sarcastic towards the prior post, that any woman worth her salt would get up and leave the moment she was being abused, not wait til her man calmed down for a better time to leave or remove herself from that situation

i shouldn't have said it sarcastically because i guess it can be read as serious

J.B.
09-10-2010, 01:48 AM
Hating evil is morally right. Burning a demonic book of lies is morally right. I can agree that it might not be wise at the moment with all the pressure and press, but it's morally right to take a stand against evil. When ever you go against the grain in this disgusting and perverse generation you will always get friction, ALWAYS.

What does burning it do to fight against it's message? You can take a stand against it's message without burning it. In fact, it can be argued that burning the Quran will only incite more radical behavior and empower those within Muslim communities who are seeking for ammo to rally their base. Islam does a good job of burning it's own bridges with the rest of the world, we don't need to deliberately fuel their anger with a stunt that offers no positive benefits for us.

cheachea
09-10-2010, 01:56 AM
J.B. THEY want us to submit. That is what Islam is all about. We have to hit this head on. THEY WILL NOT STOP EVER.

Now for the sake of comparison let's compare burning a book to the stuff that terrorists do. There is no comparison between the two. Wow that rhymed :laugh:

J.B.
09-10-2010, 02:02 AM
J.B. THEY want us to submit. That is what Islam is all about. We have to hit this head on. THEY WILL NOT STOP EVER.

Now for the sake of comparison let's compare burning a book to the stuff that terrorists do. There is no comparison between the two. Wow that rhymed :laugh:

You are preaching to the choir brother, but you still have yet to explain to me how burning the book presents any sort of positive benefits for us or anybody else. You don't need to tell anybody that burning a book is not as bad as crashing a plane into a building, but can you tell me what good burning the book does?

cheachea
09-10-2010, 02:08 AM
Mostly being defiant to evil, like Elijah was to prophets of BAAL and David was against Goliath.

J.B.
09-10-2010, 02:18 AM
Mostly being defiant to evil, like Elijah was to prophets of BAAL and David was against Goliath.

Can't the same defiance be achieved without burning the Quran?

Aren't we already defiant to it?

In my opinion it basically equates to spitting in the face of the enemy just to provoke them and it offers no real upside.

cheachea
09-10-2010, 02:22 AM
I guess we just have to except that we are all the Body of Christ and that not everyone is the same. Not everyone is going to be like John the beloved and at the same time not everyone is going to be like king David. The thing we have to remember is that God can work through us all no matter what are personalities are like.

cheachea
09-10-2010, 02:24 AM
Can't the same defiance be achieved without burning the Quran?

Aren't we already defiant to it?

In my opinion it basically equates to spitting in the face of the enemy just to provoke them and it offers no real upside.


1.Yes and 2.Yes. I don't agree on the 3rd part though.

rearnakedchoke
09-10-2010, 02:28 AM
cheachea changed my mind ... burn the qurans ... for some reason, his reasoning was the same as adam's, but much more logical ...

J.B.
09-10-2010, 02:29 AM
1.Yes and 2.Yes. I don't agree on the 3rd part though.

Well, then what is the upside?

What is gained by burning the Quran's other than provoking the enemy?

cheachea
09-10-2010, 02:37 AM
What is gained is that you showed them that you are not scared and that you actually will stand up for truth and for the GOD of ISREAl and our LORD JESUS CHRIST. You are showing them that if they want to try and take over this country with Islam they are going to have a fight on there hand. I'm not trying to insult people, I'm just saying the Lord works through all of His children and He works through the physical warriors (ARMY, Police, ETC) and the spiritual warriors (Prayer, Love, ETC).

J.B.
09-10-2010, 02:51 AM
What is gained is that you showed them that you are not scared and that you actually will stand up for truth and for the GOD of ISREAl and our LORD JESUS CHRIST. You are showing them that if they want to try and take over this country with Islam they are going to have a fight on there hand. I'm not trying to insult people, I'm just saying the Lord works through all of His children and He works through the physical warriors (ARMY, Police, ETC) and the spiritual warriors (Prayer, Love, ETC).

You can show them that without actions that actually work against our nation's interests. Burning the Quran, especially on a large public scale with media attention is only going to incite more violence in places that we are directly trying to combat the enemy.

Islam is not taking over this country, and while the Lord most certainly works through each of us in His own way, it doesn't mean that there are not people with good intentions who are misguided. We can take a stand against Islam by spreading the message of Christ, but we don't need to do things we know will cause more problems just to send a rather small message that won't really accomplish anything.

cheachea
09-10-2010, 02:58 AM
But you see it will make a difference. Look at what a ruckus it made when the Pastor even started to talk about doing it. HE HADN'T EVEN DONE IT YET , HE WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT IT and the whole world made a stink about it. That tells me that it struck a nerve and that it was more than just a small message. And did you even see the reaction from radical Islam , they were burning pictures of the pastor and HE HADN'T EVEN BURNED ANYTHING YET !! LOL.

J.B.
09-10-2010, 03:08 AM
But you see it will make a difference. Look at what a ruckus it made when the Pastor even started to talk about doing it. HE HADN'T EVEN DONE IT YET , HE WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT IT and the whole world made a stink about it. That tells me that it struck a nerve and that it was more than just a small message. And did you even see the reaction from radical Islam , they were burning pictures of the pastor and HE HADN'T EVEN BURNED ANYTHING YET !! LOL.

What positive difference has that made?

Do you think that Islam forgot that we are not afraid?

Yeah, it struck a nerve because that is the only thing a move like that does. It's EXACTLY like spitting in the face of the enemy. Did it stop any terrorists, or did it create more?

cheachea
09-10-2010, 03:17 AM
J.B.I'm going to tell you the positive thing that is accomplished. The positive thing is that you openly were defiant to evil, showed that you were not scared, and that you are standing up for truth. Standing up to evil is a positive thing Bro. There are people in this world that can not be reasoned with. They don't understand the Love of God and the saving power of Jesus Christ. I get the bigger picture that we are in a spiritual war and that it is on a different level than what we can see, but in the physical we will never have peace with Islam. It just won't happen.

adamt
09-10-2010, 03:22 AM
What positive difference has that made?

Do you think that Islam forgot that we are not afraid?

Yeah, it struck a nerve because that is the only thing a move like that does. It's EXACTLY like spitting in the face of the enemy. Did it stop any terrorists, or did it create more?

jb is there anything positive that comes from someone being martyrred?

as a Christian we are to obey, should we only obey if we see the positive effects of our actions?

What positive comes from sports? Should we participate in sports or watch movies?

adamt
09-10-2010, 03:23 AM
cheachea changed my mind ... burn the qurans ... for some reason, his reasoning was the same as adam's, but much more logical ...

yeah i seriously need to work on my delivery

suntereo
09-10-2010, 03:23 AM
J.B.I'm going to tell you the positive thing that is accomplished. The positive thing is that you openly were defiant to evil, showed that you were not scared, and that you are standing up for truth. Standing up to evil is a positive thing Bro. There are people in this world that can not be reasoned with. They don't understand the Love of God and the saving power of Jesus Christ. I get the bigger picture that we are in a spiritual war and that it is on a different level than what we can see, but in the physical we will never have peace with Islam. It just won't happen.

this! these are the points I was trying to make by posting the quotes from the quran and the statistics from last months jihad attacks

Neezar
09-10-2010, 03:33 AM
Your General is aksing for people not to burn this.

YOU are a coward who will burn the Koran from you shore on America - I might respect you if you go to Pakistan, burn the Koran and most importantly preach the Gospel.

Until then you are no soldier. And we shall see what happens and see how your concious sits on that.

Well you tell me, what are your thoughts on the Crusades, they saw that Jerusalem was in Muslim hands and thought it was a affront to God and that the lord would want them to win back the Holy Land.

So tell me where do you sit with the Crusaders?

You must have tons of respect for the Muslims building their mosque near ground zero then.

Neezar
09-10-2010, 03:40 AM
First off, I have not read all of this thread and don't really know if I have the stamina to finish it off.

I believe we're at the point that SOMETHING needs to be done. I just don't think burning books is that thing. The first thing we need to do is remove the muslim (or at the very least, muslim sympathizer) from office. Even if that only means voting him out in 2012. I'd prefer to get rid of him sooner but not sure how we can accomplish that short of assasination. I'm not quite ready to condone assasination of a US President.

They aren't burning the books to fight the muslims. lol. They are burning the books to make a statement. And this is America, Land of the Free. So I say let them have their bon fires!

And for the people who have said that this will just incite tensions amongst the muslims...Oh well, they aren't too worried about inciting tensions amongst Americans by building their mosque now are they?

Also, I find it ironic that we have NO TOLERANCE policies when it comes to demands from terrorists groups but we have a president asking our citizens to stand down and give in to the demands of a religious (terrorist) group. Why didn't he (the prez) ask the same of them with the mosque building?

cheachea
09-10-2010, 03:42 AM
I never said do nothing at all.

Your stupid if you think burning a book is doing something to fight radical islam...just plain thick! Its not a protest, because it makes no difference whatsoever.

So why dont you and AdamT go and burn your books somewhere where the majority of good christians on this board dont have to hear you. I suggest Westboro Baptist Church...since Florida has been cancelled.

I find your views, and AdamT views EXTREMELY insulting, dangerous, and stupid, I'm utterly gutted that two patrons I thought were good and descent people, have turned out to be warmongering nitwits who would endanger the life of the REAL soliders against Islam...you know...those who actually go and fight, like several of our forum patrons here...to burn a few books that will change nothing in terms of the spread of islam except strengthen their own justifications and cost lives...GOOD LIVES...HOW DARE YOU risk the lives of people, some of whom are my close friends, for your pointless petty point scoring! have you forgotten that about half the people on this forum are Forces/Exforces, or have some relation to them?? What about Boomer, who has spent nearly a third at least of the whole time ive been on this Forum in Iraq or Afghanistan...doing his bit. Would his life be a worthy trade off for your lunicy!!! You two are a Disgrace, and absolute disgrace, for condoning something that could kill your own troops...I'm just saying.

Now this is a moot point I think someone should consider locking it. I would do it myself...but I cant remember how :ashamed::laugh:




Tyburn are you going to apologize for calling me stupid ?
I'm sorry for offending you. Honestly I have no idea how you can put me in the same boat as Westboro Baptist Church. That was REALLY REALLY insulting. Burning Demonic Qurans is not even close or on the same level to what the cultic hateful WBC do and you know it.

Neezar
09-10-2010, 03:45 AM
Hello! People! News Flash!


We can give in and allow the muslims to build the mosque and expand their agenda. And we can force the preacher in Florida to back off.

AND they are STILL going to find a reason to attempt to kill us!

flo
09-10-2010, 04:07 AM
It is likely a moot point as the pastor has just called off the Koran burning . . . However, now Fred Phelps and the ghouls at Westboro "Baptist Church" are threatening to burn a Koran.:rolleyes:

I just knew they'd get in on the act in some way, PTM. BTW, I hardly recognized you...

:)

adamt
09-10-2010, 04:19 AM
You must have tons of respect for the Muslims building their mosque near ground zero then.

Hello! People! News Flash!


We can give in and allow the muslims to build the mosque and expand their agenda. And we can force the preacher in Florida to back off.

AND they are STILL going to find a reason to attempt to kill us!

First off, I have not read all of this thread and don't really know if I have the stamina to finish it off.



They aren't burning the books to fight the muslims. lol. They are burning the books to make a statement. And this is America, Land of the Free. So I say let them have their bon fires!

And for the people who have said that this will just incite tensions amongst the muslims...Oh well, they aren't too worried about inciting tensions amongst Americans by building their mosque now are they?

Also, I find it ironic that we have NO TOLERANCE policies when it comes to demands from terrorists groups but we have a president asking our citizens to stand down and give in to the demands of a religious (terrorist) group. Why didn't he (the prez) ask the same of them with the mosque building?

wooooooweeeeee!!!!!! preach it!!! someone get a black choir to start singing some gospel or something........

it's like someone just called in an airstrike!!!

i now know how the minutemen felt when the calvary arrived!

but be careful neezar, dave will call ya a warmongering nitwit

Chuck
09-10-2010, 04:22 AM
First and foremost I apologize for the monster reply but I'm exhausted, ready for bed but wanted to respond to a few things before I do. This seemed the easiest way...

your thought line or fear of provoking muslims is flawed. They are provoked by their Quran.
If we look at how Webster defines "provoked" I would argue that we are both right. The Quran, whether being burned or followed would be provoking.

Webster defines "provoked" as: A) to arouse to a feeling or action : B) : to incite to anger : C) to stir up purposely <provoke a fight

Burning Qurans obviously will not "provoke" them then.
See Chechea's post below.....

If Americans feel they need to protest and vent then they have that right.
True. However 1 Corinthians 10:23 says "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive.

Petreaus feels burning the Quran would have negative results because he is following a policy of appeasement in the middle east which it seems you agree with.
A policy of appeasement is far from where I stand. Wisdom and discretion is all I've said from the beginning. I would wager that perhaps Petreaus has greater knowledge and experience with this issue than both of us.

My thoughts are deterent ie. kick their a$$ so bad they dont want to fight anymore.
Who is "they"? How do you plan on identifying "them" ? Are you proposing we eradicate and entire religious group because some of them are terrorist? Remember the IRA? I guess Roman Catholics are next right?

I'm not sure if you were calling me a coward and saying that I'm not a soldier earlier but if you were you are sorely mistaken. I am not only a veteran but still involved in the war effort thru my business endeavors. I wont get sucked into your name calling but want to warn you that calling me a coward and discrediting my service to the nation is seriously out of line.
I was not, nor would I call you a coward. I don't even know you brother I couldn't possibly make that claim. I applaud your service and am truly grateful for it but being a veteran does not make you an expert on the Middle East or how we should best deal with that situation. For all I know you were a cook on a carrier for 20 years. That wouldn't devalue your service in any way but it certainly wouldn't make you a subject matter expert on this issue.

I dont know AdamT well enough to doubt his calling or salvation. I'm supprised you do.
But you know him well enough to proclaim it???? :huh:


I think Suntereo was honestly trying to do good and present us with a different look of where Adamt is coming from, and I honestly wanted to give Adamt the benefit of the doubt, really I did.
I agree and me too!!

tell me how this thread accompolished anything good, it didn't, nothing at all, people are mad, not me, not you, chuck don't get mad
Well for one thing I'll be praying for you more now than before! :D When you say I don't get mad I hope you're being sincere because you're right. I rarely get angry on here anymore (I used too!) and I put great effort to disagree respectfully. Sarcastic at times but not angrily.

i don't think you or chuck hold grudges but i think other people prolly will
I don't. Far from it. My love for you as my brother in Christ will always trump my dislike for your position on issues and how you present them. I certainly don't like how you come across at times but my love for you won't ever change. It can't.

you and others are also the personification of the lukewarm church, you stand for nothing, and are against nothing, you love all and just want to be good people that listen to Jesus
When you reference the lukewarm church which Scripture are you using?

What is gained is that you showed them that you are not scared and that you actually will stand up for truth and for the GOD of ISREAl and our LORD JESUS CHRIST. You are showing them that if they want to try and take over this country with Islam they are going to have a fight on there hand.
I highly, highly doubt it. That may be what you and others HOPE is conveyed but I doubt ANY Muslim will see the burning of their holy book as standing up for truth or Jesus Christ.

But you see it will make a difference. Look at what a ruckus it made when the Pastor even started to talk about doing it. HE HADN'T EVEN DONE IT YET , HE WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT IT and the whole world made a stink about it. That tells me that it struck a nerve and that it was more than just a small message. And did you even see the reaction from radical Islam , they were burning pictures of the pastor and HE HADN'T EVEN BURNED ANYTHING YET !! LOL.
So what you're saying is that the very mention of burning the Quran provoked them??? :Whistle:

Neezar
09-10-2010, 04:28 AM
I never said do nothing at all.

Your stupid if you think burning a book is doing something to fight radical islam...just plain thick! Its not a protest, because it makes no difference whatsoever.

So why dont you and AdamT go and burn your books somewhere where the majority of good christians on this board dont have to hear you. I suggest Westboro Baptist Church...since Florida has been cancelled.

I find your views, and AdamT views EXTREMELY insulting, dangerous, and stupid, I'm utterly gutted that two patrons I thought were good and descent people, have turned out to be warmongering nitwits who would endanger the life of the REAL soliders against Islam...you know...those who actually go and fight, like several of our forum patrons here...to burn a few books that will change nothing in terms of the spread of islam except strengthen their own justifications and cost lives...GOOD LIVES...HOW DARE YOU risk the lives of people, some of whom are my close friends, for your pointless petty point scoring! have you forgotten that about half the people on this forum are Forces/Exforces, or have some relation to them?? What about Boomer, who has spent nearly a third at least of the whole time ive been on this Forum in Iraq or Afghanistan...doing his bit. Would his life be a worthy trade off for your lunicy!!! You two are a Disgrace, and absolute disgrace, for condoning something that could kill your own troops...I'm just saying.

Now this is a moot point I think someone should consider locking it. I would do it myself...but I cant remember how :ashamed::laugh:

Well Dave you can add me the list of the ones you find insulting, dangerous, and stupid. Oh yeah and an absolute disgrace!



Here is what I say we do, we offer them a deal! You build your mosque somewhere else and we give you your books.

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/cynthia17_07/liftarn_A_raised_fist-1.jpg

cheachea
09-10-2010, 04:28 AM
So what you're saying is that the very mention of burning the Quran provoked them??? :Whistle:[/QUOTE]



Yes.

Chuck
09-10-2010, 04:32 AM
So what you're saying is that the very mention of burning the Quran provoked them??? :Whistle:



Yes

We have GOT to teach you how to quote people!!! :D :D

Neezar
09-10-2010, 04:32 AM
Tyburn are you going to apologize for calling me stupid ?
I'm sorry for offending you. Honestly I have no idea how you can put me in the same boat as Westboro Baptist Church. That was REALLY REALLY insulting. Burning Demonic Qurans is not even close or on the same level to what the cultic hateful WBC do and you know it.

He should apologize to you. He owes more than you and apology. His behavior here has been disgraceful, even to someone like me.

cheachea
09-10-2010, 04:33 AM
LOL Sorry about that Chuck. :laugh:

Neezar
09-10-2010, 04:35 AM
What positive difference has that made?

Do you think that Islam forgot that we are not afraid?

Yeah, it struck a nerve because that is the only thing a move like that does. It's EXACTLY like spitting in the face of the enemy. Did it stop any terrorists, or did it create more?

What difference will NOT burning them make?

Just saying.......

Neezar
09-10-2010, 04:37 AM
well i see we had this discussion in vain then didn't we??:sad:

oh well guess we go back to being friends and judging kat von d

:laugh:

Chuck
09-10-2010, 04:38 AM
He should apologize to you. He owes more than you and apology. His behavior here has been disgraceful, even to someone like me.
Do you think he's the only person on here who's behaved disgracefully? :huh:

Or do you just like to single him out?

adamt
09-10-2010, 04:39 AM
A policy of appeasement is far from where I stand. Wisdom and discretion is all I've said from the beginning. I would wager that perhaps Petreaus has greater knowledge and experience with this issue than both of us.

i suppose we could believe barack has a greater knowledge than we do about the economy then too, and just trust him
Who is "they"? How do you plan on identifying "them" ? Are you proposing we eradicate and entire religious group because some of them are terrorist? Remember the IRA? I guess Roman Catholics are next right?if the pope highjacks a plane and crashes it into our nation killing 3000 plus people then tells all other catholics to do the same, then yes











Well for one thing I'll be praying for you more now than before! :D When you say I don't get mad I hope you're being sincere because you're right. I rarely get angry on here anymore (I used too!) and I put great effort to disagree respectfully. Sarcastic at times but not angrily.
i was dead serious, i know you don't get mad. and like you say you are sarcastic at times, which is just as bad as being directly rude, but no ones perfect, and i admitted that i need to do better delivering my thoughts, i shouldn't be as insensitive or as overly sensitive, but half the time i am just hurrying to respond, or typing with one hand while holding a baby in the other hand that i don't type out a long pretty response, i know i could do better

I don't. Far from it. My love for you as my brother in Christ will always trump my dislike for your position on issues and how you present them. I certainly don't like how you come across at times but my love for you won't ever change. It can't.i think we all could come across better, and like i said, you're one of the ones on here that i can fuss and holler and carry on with and when it is all said and done, you and i will know that it is just an internet argument over something, its not a life altering situation


When you reference the lukewarm church which Scripture are you using?
revelation of course, the church that isn't really wrong, but it doesn't do anything right either

I highly, highly doubt it. That may be what you and others HOPE is conveyed but I doubt ANY Muslim will see the burning of their holy book as standing up for truth or Jesus Christ.
nope but i sure was thinking of converting to muhammadism when i saw them chop that guys head off!

So what you're saying is that the very mention of burning the Quran provoked them??? :Whistle:i still don't get why you are so worried about provoking them

adamt
09-10-2010, 04:41 AM
Do you think he's the only person on here who's behaved disgracefully? :huh:

Or do you just like to single him out?

people don't mind singling me out, even when i'm not talking to them

Neezar
09-10-2010, 04:43 AM
Do you think he's the only person on here who's behaved disgracefully? :huh:

Or do you just like to single him out?

Don't be jealous! I am getting around to you.

If I can be bothered.....




Wasn't your first post in here calling someone simple minded? :scratchchin: Or maybe second.....

Chuck
09-10-2010, 04:48 AM
i still don't get why you are so worried about provoking them

I'm not worried... I just don't see the wisdom in it.

Any enemy when provoked is more dangerous. Why put even more innocent lives in danger just to prove some point by burning a book?

If just 1 innocent person died as a result of burning a bunch of Qurans it would be too many. If someone died because of this they wouldn't be a martyr.. they would be an innocent victim who died because somebody cared more about the "point" they were trying to make then the consequences of their actions.

Innocent life > book burning

adamt
09-10-2010, 04:49 AM
what good will it do


well that is the same question judas asked when mary annointed Jesus

he thought they should have sold the perfume and fed the poor

and what good did annointing Jesus do? Did it get anyone saved? Did it spread the gospel? Maybe Jesus was wrong?

And what good does it do to be martyrred? You're no good dead. So maybe we can learn from this that instead of standing by the name of Christ and getting killed for it, you can temporarily recant it then be a fulltime missionary somewhere and get a whole lot of people saved .

there would be no used making them mad by not recanting the name of Christ anyways right?

What good would that do?

One things for sure, Barack is right, we are no longer a Christian nation. We stood up for Muslims and their temple and their book, all of which blasphem Christ. So how can we expect Christ to defend us when we can't manage to defend Him?

Chuck
09-10-2010, 04:49 AM
Don't be jealous! I am getting around to you.

If I can be bothered.....




Wasn't your first post in here calling someone simple minded? :scratchchin: Or maybe second.....

First. :D

And you know how I hate being left out!!!


I miss you ya little brat!!

cheachea
09-10-2010, 04:53 AM
I'm not worried... I just don't see the wisdom in it.

Any enemy when provoked is more dangerous. Why put even more innocent lives in danger just to prove some point by burning a book?

If just 1 innocent person died as a result of burning a bunch of Qurans it would be too many. If someone died because of this they wouldn't be a martyr.. they would be an innocent victim who died because somebody cared more about the "point" they were trying to make then the consequences of their actions.

Innocent life > book burning




Chuck I'm telling you Man they are going to do it anyways. Islam will not stop ever.

adamt
09-10-2010, 04:55 AM
Why put even more innocent lives in danger just to prove some point by burning a book?

If just 1 innocent person died as a result of burning a bunch of Qurans it would be too many. If someone died because of this they wouldn't be a martyr.. they would be an innocent victim who died because somebody cared more about the "point" they were trying to make then the consequences of their actions.

Innocent life > book burning

well i still remember the thousands of innocent lives lost when we did nothing, so by my estimate we are all at risk anyways, so if we are all at risk how can we say burning a book will put us at risk?

I can't fathom how someone can equate burning a book with killing someone. If that is how these people think then they need to be deported. What next, we can't read the Bible for fear they might get mad and kill someone innocent? Where are you going to draw the line chuck?

adamt
09-10-2010, 04:59 AM
this just in.....


the hindus are going to kill us if we eat beef..........their holy animal


everyone needs to stop eating beef NOW so as not to provoke the nation of hinduism!!!!!




and the french are going to .....well what ever the french do before they surrender.... if we don't stop eating their national mascot..........the chicken






and a little off topic here..... :)but i know every page that chuck posts on cause his picture is so wide it makes the scroll bar come up at the bottom of the page, so that's chuck's special way to make his presence known :)

J.B.
09-10-2010, 05:00 AM
jb is there anything positive that comes from someone being martyrred?

as a Christian we are to obey, should we only obey if we see the positive effects of our actions?

What positive comes from sports? Should we participate in sports or watch movies?

What you are doing is trying to play role reversal with unassociated things in order to justify an unnecessary action.

1. You know I am not condoning Islam or martyrdom in the name of a terrorist act, so asking me that is ridiculous.

2. Sports have nothing to do with this.

3. I'm sorry, no matter how you try to justify it, most people will disagree. Burning the Quran is a giant waste of time and does nothing but incite violence. It's not really that hard of a concept to grasp, but obviously your anger with Islam trumps the common sense of the majority of people...lol

Sgtchawk
09-10-2010, 05:08 AM
No. He is not.

He is not a Christian Warrior in any shape or form. Again, read where I wrote about Christian Martyrdom! He is an angry and bitter person, who has selfishly shown no thought for how such an action would endanger others. He Doesnt do as GOD commands, He doesnt even know what sin and evil are. He has a nasty little opinion which threatens to tarnish good Christian Soldiers.

If you aggree with him, you are the same. I make Zero appologies for this statement, and I refuse to retract it. Praise GOD the TRUE Christians on the forum can understand right from wrong. I pray earnestly that GOD somehow intervene to stop this from happening on Saturday, and if not, to punish, harshly, all those who aggree with such an abhorant and unGODly reckoning. I pray that GOD keeps those Troops you have in harms way, out of danger, may he Confound the politics and frustrate the knavish tricks of the islamists in the American midst....and I ask him to forgive the anger shown by idiots holding such dangerous views, and not to hold it against them by permitting further attacks on Western Countries.


I really missed most of this, but did you really wish harsh punishment on your Christian brethren that hold a different socio-political outlook than yourself, only to turn around and ask that the Lord God Almighty forgive them of their anger?
As a Christian, I wish no harm on any of my brothers and sisters in Christ, period.

Neezar
09-10-2010, 05:12 AM
JB, I have a question for you:

The muslims want to build a mosque near ground zero where they can worship peacefully. Why then is it that their spokesman is saying that if we don't allow the mosque then the radicals may retaliate? If this the "good" (:rolleyes: and I use the term loosely) muslims that are building there then why would the radicals care?



It is because that mosque is a symbol and a HUGE step towards expanding the muslim agenda (not the good agenda) here in America.

Now our government is allowing that but I think we, the people, need to make a stand and do something to show these people that they WILL meet resistance and THE TIME IS NOW!


We are going to sit back and deny until it is too late. :sad:

Neezar
09-10-2010, 05:13 AM
I really missed most of this, but did you really wish harsh punishment on your Christian brethren that hold a different socio-political outlook than yourself, only to turn around and ask that the Lord God Almighty forgive them of their anger?
As a Christian, I wish no harm on any of my brothers and sisters in Christ, period.

Yeah. He is a real gem, ain't he?

adamt
09-10-2010, 05:19 AM
What you are doing is trying to play role reversal with unassociated things in order to justify an unnecessary action.just because they are not identically associated does not mean there isn't a pinciple that can be applied, it's not legal basis, it is merely a metaphor

1. You know I am not condoning Islam or martyrdom in the name of a terrorist act, so asking me that is ridiculous.you read too far into what i was saying, i wasn't referring to islam martyr, i was referring to christian martyrs, what is the point of dying for what you believe in, seriously, if the standard is that something good absolutely has to come of it then why die for a cause short of jumping on a grenade or something, i am talking about people like the kids at columbine that were told to renounce Christ or die, wouldn't they have been better off not dying???

2. Sports have nothing to do with this.if the standard is, that something good should come out of all we do, then it does have something to do with this, what good comes of sports?

3. I'm sorry, no matter how you try to justify it, most people will disagree. Burning the Quran is a giant waste of time and does nothing but incite violence. It's not really that hard of a concept to grasp, but obviously your anger with Islam trumps the common sense of the majority of people...lol

i can live with being in the minority, i didn't vote for obama, and that's working out well for me, though i am in the minority there, and i do grasp your concept, i just disagree,


i don't think we should limit ourselves based on the fear of what the muslims MIGHT do, that is just succombing to a bully

If a bully is on the playground and he says not to play on anything or he is gonna kick your butt, then why provoke him right?

Maybe for some people, but i am not going to be bullied just on the mere principle of it. I don't negotiate with terrorists, be they bullies on the playground or bullies on the international level.

and shame on anyone that tells me that i deserved getting beat up because i played on the play ground. It may be my fault, because I knew what might happened, but me playing on the playground didn't justify the bullies actions, and certainly didn't make me deserving of a beating.

islam is a bully, and needs to be dealt with as such, which is not by pandering to them, and i know you don't think you are pandering to them, but if you alter your habits based on thier threats, then it's pandering to their demands, i.e. not playing on the playground cause the bully said so


luckily i got a bigger brother, named JC that can kicks muhammeds ass

cheachea
09-10-2010, 05:23 AM
[COLOR="red"]
luckily i got a bigger brother, named JC that can kicks muhammeds ass


That is priceless :laugh:

J.B.
09-10-2010, 05:23 AM
JB, I have a question for you:

The muslims want to build a mosque near ground zero where they can worship peacefully. Why then is it that their spokesman is saying that if we don't allow the mosque then the radicals may retaliate? If this the "good" (:rolleyes: and I use the term loosely) muslims that are building there then why would the radicals care?



It is because that mosque is a symbol and a HUGE step towards expanding the muslim agenda (not the good agenda) here in America.

Now our government is allowing that but I think we, the people, need to make a stand and do something to show these people that they WILL meet resistance and THE TIME IS NOW!


We are going to sit back and deny until it is too late. :sad:


What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

I openly said I was against the Mosque...you know why? Because it's a dick-headish thing to do. Not because they don't have the right to do it, but it's just going cause problems. Same mentality applies here, there is no purpose but to piss people off by burning Qurans.

Weather the Muslims who want to build the mosque are peaceful or not, it doesn't matter. The controversy over denying them the right will only piss off the radicals even more. Still, did I say that we should cave in an build the mosque? NO, I didn't, because I know that even if they build it and they are peaceful, there is likely to be some idiot radical from our side who does something stupid to it and then the liberal media can continue to paint us as the crazy ones.

I know it's hard to comprehend that there are Muslim people who actually don't care about us and don't want any trouble, but it's true.

I also know it's hard to comprehend that a group of radicals would go crazy over burning a book, but this is also true. I find it crazy that people who support this country and don't want to add any extra stress to the situation our soldiers are in overseas would condone this sort of activity on a massive public level.

J.B.
09-10-2010, 05:28 AM
i can live with being in the minority, i didn't vote for obama, and that's working out well for me, though i am in the minority there, and i do grasp your concept, i just disagree,


i don't think we should limit ourselves based on the fear of what the muslims MIGHT do, that is just succombing to a bully

If a bully is on the playground and he says not to play on anything or he is gonna kick your butt, then why provoke him right?

Maybe for some people, but i am not going to be bullied just on the mere principle of it. I don't negotiate with terrorists, be they bullies on the playground or bullies on the international level.

and shame on anyone that tells me that i deserved getting beat up because i played on the play ground. It may be my fault, because I knew what might happened, but me playing on the playground didn't justify the bullies actions, and certainly didn't make me deserving of a beating.

islam is a bully, and needs to be dealt with as such, which is not by pandering to them, and i know you don't think you are pandering to them, but if you alter your habits based on thier threats, then it's pandering to their demands, i.e. not playing on the playground cause the bully said so


luckily i got a bigger brother, named JC that can kicks muhammeds ass


My habits don't include spending my time burning books, and thats the point you and the others can't seem to grasp.

It is NOT NECESSARY to burn the Quran to make your point.

You are intent on justifying something that is nothing more that an action in which you must go out of your way to be inflammatory (i.e just to be a dick)

Islam may be the bully, but we are not gonna win the war with methods like yours.

adamt
09-10-2010, 05:31 AM
I know it's hard to comprehend that there are Muslim people who actually don't care about us and don't want any trouble, but it's true. then they aren't very good muslim, cause the koran tells them to kill us infidels
Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush" (Surah 9:5)
.

it would be the equivalent of a christian saying you need to work hard to earn your way to heaven

cheachea
09-10-2010, 05:31 AM
J.B. there is wisdom in your words and I completely see where you are coming from. At the same time realize Islam is Evil, the Quran is evil, and this is a "holy" war. I know I sound like a broken record, but ISLAM WILL NEVER STOP. NEVER. We will never be able to reason with them. We can NOT submit to them by changing our way of life to appease them. We can NOT show weakness.

J.B.
09-10-2010, 05:32 AM
J.B. there is wisdom in your words and I completely see where you are coming from. At the same time realize Islam is Evil, the Quran is evil, and this is a "holy" war. I know I sound like a broken record, but ISLAM WILL NEVER STOP. NEVER. We will never be able to reason with them. We can NOT submit to them by changing our way of life to appease them. We can NOT show weakness.

How are you showing weakness by NOT burning a Quran?

cheachea
09-10-2010, 05:35 AM
How are you showing weakness by NOT burning a Quran?


By Not Giving a CRAP What they think. I don't care what they think. I want to please Jesus Christ not demonic Islam. They need to be told the truth and that they are wrong. Nobody else is doing that.

adamt
09-10-2010, 05:36 AM
My habits don't include spending my time burning books,maybe terry jones does and thats the point you and the others can't seem to grasp.

It is NOT NECESSARY to burn the Quran to make your point. maybe it iswas it necessary for them to kill 3000 people nine years ago?

You are intent on justifying something that is nothing more that an action in which you must go out of your way to be inflammatory (i.e just to be a dick)the action and the person doing it is completely irrelevant, that seems to be the point you don't grasp, the point is, anything is going to be inflammatory to them, because us doing nothing was inflammatory to them, so we don't need to let their oversensitivity decide what we do

Islam may be the bully, but we are not gonna win the war with methods like yours.


and what method is that? not letting them dictate our actions?

if they come out tomorrow and decide if we don't start making the american women wear veils, they might "retalliate", what should we do then?

J.B.
09-10-2010, 05:37 AM
it would be the equivalent of a christian saying you need to work hard to earn your way to heaven

So what?

Why do you care if they are good Muslisms who strictly follow the Quran or not?

The fact is, there are people who identify themselves as Muslim who are peaceful people.

Neezar
09-10-2010, 05:39 AM
What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

I openly said I was against the Mosque...you know why? Because it's a dick-headish thing to do. Not because they don't have the right to do it, but it's just going cause problems. Same mentality applies here, there is no purpose but to piss people off by burning Qurans.

Weather the Muslims who want to build the mosque are peaceful or not, it doesn't matter. The controversy over denying them the right will only piss off the radicals even more. Still, did I say that we should cave in an build the mosque? NO, I didn't, because I know that even if they build it and they are peaceful, there is likely to be some idiot radical from our side who does something stupid to it and then the liberal media can continue to paint us as the crazy ones.

I know it's hard to comprehend that there are Muslim people who actually don't care about us and don't want any trouble, but it's true.

I also know it's hard to comprehend that a group of radicals would go crazy over burning a book, but this is also true. I find it crazy that people who support this country and don't want to add any extra stress to the situation our soldiers are in overseas would condone this sort of activity on a massive public level.

This has a lot to do with the topic at hand. I certainly comprehend that there ARE muslims who aren't trying to kill us ( at the moment, lol) but my point was that THOSE aren't the ones building the mosque. That is a HUGE move for them-the muslims vs Christians. Time for Christians to make a statement. And what better way for peace loving Christians to do that than to burn their bible?

I guess they could have made shoe bombs.


My habits don't include spending my time burning books, and thats the point you and the others can't seem to grasp.

It is NOT NECESSARY to burn the Quran to make your point.

You are intent on justifying something that is nothing more that an action in which you must go out of your way to be inflammatory (i.e just to be a dick)

Islam may be the bully, but we are not gonna win the war with methods like yours.

Apparently it was necessary. If that preacher had just stated his views on the subject would islamists have even responded? So, yeah, he had to go radical back on their ass to get their attention. Now he is screaming
"WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT! OH NO! WE AIN'T GONNA TAKE IT!" Not lying down anyway.....

Muslims vs Christians.
This is war, people! It has been for years now. Our so called tolerance is going to be the death of us, literally.

cheachea
09-10-2010, 05:41 AM
Wow this is turning into a dead horse. J.B. Can you atleast understand the reasons and logic of why some people on this board feel the way they do about this topic ? I'm not being a jerk, I'm seriously asking you this.

Neezar
09-10-2010, 05:42 AM
Well, I am going to go ahead and put a 'W' in my column. :mellow:





:laugh::laugh::laugh:

J.B.
09-10-2010, 05:43 AM
and what method is that? not letting them dictate our actions?

if they come out tomorrow and decide if we don't start making the american women wear veils, they might "retalliate", what should we do then?

Listen to yourself....you sound ridiculous.

Muslims didn't dictate anything. The people in Florida and the Westboro Baptist church, and you, and everybody else are free to go on and burn their books. This is still a free nation.

It still doesn't make it the right thing to do.

You just simply want to do it to spite them, that's it and that's all. This has nothing to do with proving that you can take a stand, because you never lost that ability here in America. It has nothing to do with combating evil, because burning a couple hundred Qurans does nothing to accomplish that. It's nothing more than a bitter and angry move that is rooted in emotion and not common sense.

J.B.
09-10-2010, 05:45 AM
Wow this is turning into a dead horse. J.B. Can you atleast understand the reasons and logic of why some people on this board feel the way they do about this topic ? I'm not being a jerk, I'm seriously asking you this.

Oh, I completely understand it, but there is no logic behind a massive burning of the Quran, only emotion.

adamt
09-10-2010, 05:45 AM
Listen to yourself....you sound ridiculous.

Muslims didn't dictate anything. The people in Florida and the Westboro Baptist church, and you, and everybody else are free to go on and burn their books. This is still a free nation.

It still doesn't make it the right thing to do.

You just simply want to do it to spite them, that's it and that's all. This has nothing to do with proving that you can take a stand, because you never lost that ability here in America. It has nothing to do with combating evil, because burning a couple hundred Qurans does nothing to accomplish that. It's nothing more than a bitter and angry move that is rooted in emotion and not common sense.



okay lets say i concede this point,

tell me what is an appropriate way to object to muslims killing 3000 people, beheading a reporter and broadcasting it on the net, and telling their people to kill me

or should i not object cause it might offend them

adamt
09-10-2010, 05:46 AM
or will it go away if i ignore it

J.B.
09-10-2010, 05:53 AM
okay lets say i concede this point,

tell me what is an appropriate way to object to muslims killing 3000 people, beheading a reporter and broadcasting it on the net, and telling their people to kill me

or should i not object cause it might offend them

How about the United States Military?

Was that not an appropriate response?

I don't know why you keep throwing 9/11 in my face as if I don't remember. The point is there is no grand prize at the end of your path when it comes to burning the Quran. It serves no real purpose other than a slap in the face. Weather Islam deserves that slap in the face or not is not the argument here, it's the logic behind actually doing it.

J.B.
09-10-2010, 05:59 AM
This has a lot to do with the topic at hand. I certainly comprehend that there ARE muslims who aren't trying to kill us ( at the moment, lol) but my point was that THOSE aren't the ones building the mosque. That is a HUGE move for them-the muslims vs Christians. Time for Christians to make a statement. And what better way for peace loving Christians to do that than to burn their bible?

I guess they could have made shoe bombs.


That's great, make your statement that way. See what it accomplishes. :laugh:

I don't know why it's so hard to see that making a statement that way can cause damage to our soldiers, and it offers nothing of real value in return. That alone should be enough to nip this idea in the bud.



Apparently it was necessary. If that preacher had just stated his views on the subject would islamists have even responded? So, yeah, he had to go radical back on their ass to get their attention. Now he is screaming
"WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT! OH NO! WE AIN'T GONNA TAKE IT!" Not lying down anyway.....

Muslims vs Christians.
This is war, people! It has been for years now. Our so called tolerance is going to be the death of us, literally.

Why did he need a response from the Muslims?

What gave you people the idea that we are the brink of being taken over? :laugh:

How is saying; "Hey, you know what? I'm NOT going to burn a Quran today." being tolerant? :unsure-1:

Neezar
09-10-2010, 06:10 AM
That's great, make your statement that way. See what it accomplishes. :laugh:

lol


I don't know why it's so hard to see that making a statement that way can cause damage to our soldiers, and it offers nothing of real value in return. That alone should be enough to nip this idea in the bud.




Why did he need a response from the Muslims?

What gave you people the idea that we are the brink of being taken over? :laugh:

How is saying; "Hey, you know what? I'm NOT going to burn a Quran today." being tolerant? :unsure-1:

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k428/cesarinsigood/burning_book.jpg

You burn a book today or your name is mud around here, buddy! :laugh:

J.B.
09-10-2010, 06:18 AM
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k428/cesarinsigood/burning_book.jpg

You burn a book today or your name is mud around here, buddy! :laugh:

:laugh:

See, that's the other thing I think I need to stress to you guys

I'm not offended by the idea of burning a Quran. I'm simply trying to point out the reasons it's pointless and has more downside than upside, especially with the way the media portrays things nowadays.

I also am not begrudging anybody who feels like we should rid the earth of the messages in the Quran, not at all. I am a proud Christian and I don't hide behind anything or change my views to cater to Muslims for fear of retaliation. I simply look at it like I do many things in life; Why do I want to do/believe this, and what is the risk to reward factor? In this case, mass burnings of the Quran just does not compute for me.

Spiritwalker
09-10-2010, 12:06 PM
And who calls them brave?

There fellow countrymen.. and those who agree over here.

Chuck
09-10-2010, 12:11 PM
I really missed most of this, but did you really wish harsh punishment on your Christian brethren that hold a different socio-political outlook than yourself, only to turn around and ask that the Lord God Almighty forgive them of their anger?
As a Christian, I wish no harm on any of my brothers and sisters in Christ, period.
Dave doesn't wish harm upon them because they don't agree with him. It's because Dave thinks their actions are sinful. The Bible says "Whom the Lord loves He chastises. I believe that's the angle Dave is approaching it from.

JB, I have a question for you:

The muslims want to build a mosque near ground zero where they can worship peacefully.
This = Off Topic + Lame

islam is a bully, and needs to be dealt with as such, which is not by pandering to them, and i know you don't think you are pandering to them, but if you alter your habits based on thier threats, then it's pandering to their demands, i.e. not playing on the playground cause the bully said so
But nobody is currently practicing the "habit" of burning a Quran... that makes your entire point null and void. :unsure:

By Not Giving a CRAP What they think. I don't care what they think. I want to please Jesus Christ not demonic Islam. They need to be told the truth and that they are wrong. Nobody else is doing that.
OK 2 questions... 1) How does burning a book tell them they are wrong? 2) How do you reconcile your actions and emotions with the Bible?

If you want to tell them the truth then witness to them. Pray for them. Visit your local Mosque and pass out Bibles. None of this thread and the burning of a Quran has been about showing the lost their Salvation lies in Jesus Christ alone. It's all been about raw emotion and succumbing to your flesh.

Listen to yourself....you sound ridiculous.

Muslims didn't dictate anything. The people in Florida and the Westboro Baptist church, and you, and everybody else are free to go on and burn their books. This is still a free nation.

It still doesn't make it the right thing to do.

You just simply want to do it to spite them, that's it and that's all. This has nothing to do with proving that you can take a stand, because you never lost that ability here in America. It has nothing to do with combating evil, because burning a couple hundred Qurans does nothing to accomplish that. It's nothing more than a bitter and angry move that is rooted in emotion and not common sense.
THIS

Oh, I completely understand it, but there is no logic behind a massive burning of the Quran, only emotion.
+ THIS = /THREAD!!

County Mike
09-10-2010, 12:11 PM
I burned a Koran last night. Well, it's 114 chapters so I just burned one chapter. I'll burn one chapter every day for 114 days.

Burning the Koran provides some nice warmth now that that nights are getting cooler.

Any muslims don't like it? Well then, Come at me bro!

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 12:39 PM
In fact, it can be argued that burning the Quran will only incite more radical behavior and empower those within Muslim communities who are seeking for ammo to rally their base. Islam does a good job of burning it's own bridges with the rest of the world, we don't need to deliberately fuel their anger with a stunt that offers no positive benefits for us.

Their already have been, I read of a riot and flag burning going on in some middle eastern country...and that was just at the threat of burning their book :rolleyes:

County Mike
09-10-2010, 12:42 PM
I hearby declare September 11th to be:

Kick a muslim day.

Way better than "Kick a Ginger day".

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 12:42 PM
What is gained is that you showed them that you are not scared and that you actually will stand up for truth and for the GOD of ISREAl and our LORD JESUS CHRIST.

How are you standing up for GOD when he commands that you dont render evil for evil? you arent standing up for GOD...you are standing up for what YOU think is right, but going about it in an unGODly fashion.

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 12:44 PM
as a Christian we are to obey,


Why are you ignoring a commandment then :huh:

My point is that being in support of this is in direct defiance of what you claim your "fighting" for

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 12:50 PM
Tyburn are you going to apologize for calling me stupid ?
I'm sorry for offending you. Honestly I have no idea how you can put me in the same boat as Westboro Baptist Church. That was REALLY REALLY insulting. Burning Demonic Qurans is not even close or on the same level to what the cultic hateful WBC do and you know it.

What is ignoring a commandment? How does that make you or anyone who believes its alright to insight violence by default, and endanger the lives of troops good and mainstream.

You might be sorry that what you said upset me, but I very much doubt you are sorry for what you said. It will be the same when there is retribution for this foolish act. You wont be sorry that you supported it, only sorry for the effects it has on others. Well tell that to relatives of people who might die if this thing you support goes ahead.

I appologise for calling you stupid, but your ideas are none the less dumb and dangerous, that I wont retract. You all claim to be standing up against evil...but you completely ignore what GOD tells you to do.

Blade
09-10-2010, 12:51 PM
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s4/xurfnet/funny/burkhaphoto.jpg

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 12:53 PM
Well Dave you can add me the list of the ones you find insulting, dangerous, and stupid. Oh yeah and an absolute disgrace!



Here is what I say we do, we offer them a deal! You build your mosque somewhere else and we give you your books.

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/cynthia17_07/liftarn_A_raised_fist-1.jpg

Isnt that what happened?? The Preacher claims he called off the burning because the Islamists aggreed to move their centre away from the WTC site :blink:


thats what I read in the paper this morning :ninja:

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 12:55 PM
Do you think he's the only person on here who's behaved disgracefully? :huh:

Or do you just like to single him out?

The latter :rolleyes:

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 12:56 PM
Don't be jealous! I am getting around to you.


:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 12:59 PM
I really missed most of this, but did you really wish harsh punishment on your Christian brethren that hold a different socio-political outlook than yourself, only to turn around and ask that the Lord God Almighty forgive them of their anger?
As a Christian, I wish no harm on any of my brothers and sisters in Christ, period.

I cant even be sure they ARE my christian Brothers. If they dont listen to GOD they deserve to be punished....but then just because they deserve it, doesnt mean that GOD has to hurt them, he could forgive them.

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 01:00 PM
Well, I am going to go ahead and put a 'W' in my column. :mellow:





:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Over my dead body :angry:


:laugh::laugh::laugh:

County Mike
09-10-2010, 01:13 PM
Isnt that what happened?? The Preacher claims he called off the burning because the Islamists aggreed to move their centre away from the WTC site :blink:


thats what I read in the paper this morning :ninja:

I haven't heard of them agreeing to anything. Off to cnn.com.

Tomorrow - it's Muslim kicking time.

CNN Update:


(CNN) -- A Florida Muslim leader is disputing claims by the Rev. Terry Jones that he brokered a deal to get the Islamic center project near New York's ground zero moved if the pastor called off his Quran burning event.

Imam Muhammad Musri said Jones may have hatched the story about the Islamic center moving to "give himself a reason to call this off."

Jones "was trying to save face," Musri said Thursday night on CNN's "AC360."

Musri said he did not tell Jones that the Islamic center project would be moved away from ground zero.

'He's accusing me of lying to him, which I did not. I was very explicit with him." said Musri, who is with the Islamic Society of Central Florida.



Video: Imam shocked by pastor's speech

Video: Uncertainty surrounds move

Video: Pastor cancels Quran burning RELATED TOPICS
Terry Jones
Islam
First Amendment Rights
The disagreement between the two religious figures is the latest twist in the saga about the proposed Quran burning event.

President Obama and Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Thursday urged Jones to call off the Saturday event, timed for the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Jones said he would call off the event but then seemed to be changing his mind later Thursday. During the afternoon, Jones said he canceled his plan to burn copies of the Quran, based on what he said were assurances that the Islamic center in New York would be moved.

Late Thursday, Jones said he would "rethink our position" after Musri said he had never given Jones that assurance.

Jones, leader of the Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Center, also announced he will travel Saturday to New York to meet with the religious leader behind the planned center, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, about a new location.

But that, too, was questioned.

Rauf and Musri have both said no agreement on a meeting or relocation of the mosque had been reached.

Wayne Sapp, associate pastor of the small church, said that the Quran burning scheduled for Saturday was postponed until the proposed meeting in New York is confirmed. The church will wait 24 hours to confirm the meeting will take place before making any further decision about the Quran burning, Sapp said.

Jones' plan to burn Qurans had set off a firestorm of concern, including from U.S. military leaders who said the event would imperil the lives of troops abroad.

The pastor told reporters Thursday that he took a phone call from Gates, who "was very gracious and encouraged us not to continue." The call was later confirmed by CNN.

Also Thursday, real estate mogul Donald Trump offered to buy the lower Manhattan site where the Muslim group plans to build an Islamic community center. Trump offered 25 percent more than the current owners paid for it.

Trump made the offer in a letter to Hisham Elzanaty, an investor in the Islamic center site.

"I am making this offer as a resident of New York and citizen of the United States, not because I think the location is a spectacular one (because it is not), but because it will end a very serious, inflammatory, and highly divisive situation that is destined, in my opinion, to only get worse," he wrote.

Rauf had said Wednesday evening that "nothing is off the table" when asked whether he would consider moving the site.

"We are consulting, talking to various people about how to do this so that we negotiate the best and safest option."

The imam told CNN's Soledad O'Brien on "Larry King Live" that "had I known [the controversy] would happen, we certainly would never have done this."

Asked if he meant he would not have picked the location, Rauf said, "we would not have done something that would create more divisiveness."

Obama called the plan by Jones to burn the Qurans on Saturday a "recruitment bonanza for al Qaeda."

"You could have serious violence in places like Pakistan or Afghanistan" as a result of the burning, Obama said on ABC's "Good Morning America." "This could increase the recruitment of individuals who'd be willing to blow themselves up in American cities, or European cities."

Interpol on Thursday issued a global alert to its 188-member countries, warning of a "strong likelihood" of violent attacks if the Quran burning proceeded.

The FBI visited Jones at the Dove Center on Thursday, according to Jeffrey Westcott, special agent in charge of the Jacksonville, Florida, bureau. The FBI also visited him a few weeks ago, he said, but would not say what was discussed.

Earlier Thursday, discussions were taking place within the Obama administration about the possibility of intervening, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters.

Earlier this week, the top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan, Gen. David Petraeus, warned that the plan "could cause significant problems" for American troops overseas.

Jones had rejected the pleas, saying his message targets radical Islamists.

"The general needs to point his finger to radical Islam and tell them to shut up, tell them to stop, tell them that we will not bow our knees to them," Jones said on CNN's "AC360 Tuesday." "We are burning the book. We are not killing someone. We are not murdering people."


http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/10/florida.quran.burning/index.html?hpt=T2

PS: Dave: Please learn to multi-quote. 7 replies in a row from the same person kills the flow of the thread and hides my funny posts on previous pages.

County Mike
09-10-2010, 01:18 PM
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s4/xurfnet/funny/burkhaphoto.jpg

Look how much Modella has grown. She looks just like her mother.

adamt
09-10-2010, 02:31 PM
I burned a Koran last night. Well, it's 114 chapters so I just burned one chapter. I'll burn one chapter every day for 114 days.

Burning the Koran provides some nice warmth now that that nights are getting cooler.

Any muslims don't like it? Well then, Come at me bro!:laugh:

I hearby declare September 11th to be:

Kick a muslim day.

Way better than "Kick a Ginger day".:laugh:

Why are you ignoring a commandment then :huh:

My point is that being in support of this is in direct defiance of what you claim your "fighting" forhow is burning a quran evil? i am not returning evil for evil, i am returning evil with burning an evil book

I cant even be sure they ARE my christian Brothers.well dave if you accept Christ, then you can know for sure, you're our brother in Christ .

I haven't heard of them agreeing to anything. Off to cnn.com.

Tomorrow - it's Muslim kicking time.

CNN Update:




PS: Dave: Please learn to multi-quote. 7 replies in a row from the same person kills the flow of the thread and hides my funny posts on previous pages.
wow mike, on a roll today:laugh:

Llamafighter
09-10-2010, 04:49 PM
I knew I didn't want to look in this thread.
My opinion is burning the book is bad.
also buying 1,000 of copies of a book you think supports terrorism is financing the very organizations you oppose.

Hey let's shut down Phillip Morris by buying them out of cigarrettes...

interesting business strategy.

Llamafighter
09-10-2010, 04:52 PM
how are they getting the quran's? are they buying them?? sounds kinda silly to buy something when it is possible that the money is being used for terrorist actions .. i think it is stupid .. also, i am not saying all mosques are fronts for terrorist operations, but i have no doubt there are a few with alterior motives ... it's like the people burning the lebron jerseys ... most were burning there old jerseys, but jersey sales went up in cleveland after he left for miami so that people could burn them ... LOL

I see this was already covered. sorry I started reading from the back.:rolleyes:

suntereo
09-10-2010, 05:02 PM
drudge report has links to 5 other groups that will be publicly burning the quran on 9/11. My guess is more will join by then and this will be a pretty big deal.

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 05:34 PM
I haven't heard of them agreeing to anything. Off to cnn.com.

Tomorrow - it's Muslim kicking time.

CNN Update:


http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/10/florida.quran.burning/index.html?hpt=T2

PS: Dave: Please learn to multi-quote. 7 replies in a row from the same person kills the flow of the thread and hides my funny posts on previous pages.

I never multiquote. :laugh:

rearnakedchoke
09-10-2010, 06:04 PM
drudge report has links to 5 other groups that will be publicly burning the quran on 9/11. My guess is more will join by then and this will be a pretty big deal.

ou think they could have picked another day though? when the families of the victims are mourning their loved ones, and all of us mourn the loss of this event, all that is gonna be on the news, in the papers is the people burning th korans ... there will be no mention of the men and women who died and especially those workers who were trying to free people ... great way to remember ..

Tyburn
09-10-2010, 06:15 PM
how is burning a quran evil?

The Evil isnt the specific burning, its the fact that it serves only to insight violence in the Islamic Population, and encourage other well meaning Christians to join in. The real unfortunate thing is...it wont achieve anything...burning a book isnt going to show you have stood up to Islam, its going to just show you dont know your enemy, and have played into his hands. Decent people like myself will be as much enraged by this as Muslims, causing a surge in people defending Muslims, and divisions within a supposed Christian Brotherhood.

If you want to DO something, go enlist, and actually join the Military. They fight...and our Military fights to keep you safe. How could you condone something that might make them live in even more danger then they already are...How is that saying thankyou to the men and women who died so you could stand their and insight hatred by needlessly burning a Quran for absolutely no good reason...other then to provoke a reaction.

Finally...do you really think that you can win this war? Your Country has pulled out of a war early, is at a stalemate with another one, and sees one more on the horizon with Iran...and thats separate to terrorist attacks.

The most ironic thing is the only people who actually did anything to prevent 9/11 or to help when it happened were, those who went into the towers after the airstrike and saved as many as they could, sharing the brunt of casualties in collapse...and those passengers about United 93 who grounded the plane before it could reach its intended target, again, at the expense of their own lives. Pray Tell what measures you think your Government has taken to stop anything like this happening again, except dangerously obscure intelligence and Divine Providence?

You might think that you can stand up to Islam...but you rush into this fight like a fat BJ Penn against Georges Saint Pierre....and thats what you dont see. If you want to fight them...it takes more then anger and the courage to stand up...that alone will only get you knocked on your arse. You need knowledge of your Enemy, you need strategy, you need a gameplan.

Islam isnt messing around. They have had tremendous success against people like you, against Christians who fight, against the Crusades. You wont win the war by burning a Quran...you'll start a battle, one you stand a good chance of loosing....and that should bother you...because its not your government that will pay...its not safe little Barak Obama sitting in a bunker, or flying high in his airplane...it will be natural civilians, like friends you know, and it will be the TRUE Christian Warriors and Martyrs who rush to their aid when the effect of your cause occures and get killed in the process.

...but you cant stop this now. Its too late...someone somewhere will make an exhibition of themselves burning a Quran tommorow, and retaliation will follow. if it isnt that pastor...it'll be someone inspired by him...already their are protests in your enemies countries...and their governments are already using your words to inspire people to help them. Congratulations...I hope you are justly proud of your position...ultimately, I guess you have won this and got your way...Now we will wait to see which unfortunate building, and which tragic citizens will die...bear in mind, that in the same way that America sees no distinction between Terrorists, and the States that harbour them...neither does Islam see any difference between America and Britain...or any country of Western Value. Now I was in london when they last attacked...I pray that your views dont cause that to be repeated in either of our countries...but you can pretty much expect it.

How do you stick up for Christianity, against Islam?

A good way to start would be to lobby for a group that will take the constitution as it was considered 300 odd years ago. Someone to whom "Freedom of Religion" doesnt mean "A state in which anything goes" A group that will defend your boarders from immigrants, stop the influx of Islamic people. Someone who will spur your people back to church...half your populations are Secular...you need to relight the fires in your own hearth. You want a Christian Right Candidate, as Far Right as they come in the U.S for the next Two Terms. You want to lead by example on the world stage, that means cut what is perceived as arrogance and a superiority complex, and instead interact on the "i'm okay-your okay" method. Once you have proved to your own people, and to the rest of the World that your are fully Christianized once again. THEN you start on the International scene by flooding the whole market with Christian leaders, diplomats, advisors, military officers...anyone who represents the United States in foreign affiars, particularly with any influence or any connection or interaction with the Arabs must be Christian. Be Every Where. Be In All Things. Gain your majority and force the Islamists to look unreasonable. Then the whole world will join you, because they will see the subdued invasion of Islam for what it is. Inspire also the Normal Islamic Population to rise up against their leaders, inspire an internal revolution and have the guts to openly politically and militarily support it. Let the Islamic people know that they may live as islamic people within your boarders without the sort of fear and sanctions of vise versa

If you did this, and followed it...you could truely change the landscape of the whole planet within a decade. GOD will support you, He will support you just like he Supported Your Country during its separation from the Crown, just as he protected your Union during your Civil war. You are the last Vestege of Christondom, this current war is your destiny, This is what you could be made for, what your countries purpose is. To re-ignite a passion for GOD and to halt and push back, the curtains of Islam. But you are already under attack and What will America do?

you've opted to burn a Quran instead. :sad: Tell me...how do you feel when you see them burning your flag? how do you feel when you see video footage of what happened nine years ago? how do you feel when you see rows and rows of flag drapped coffins? After the anger is gone...do you feel hollow and sad? Do you wish it had never happened? I love what America stands for and her passion for herself...I dont want to see her damaged again. :cry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-a0fsmF1rk

I guess there is nothing else to say, and nothing further I can do. So I shall bow out of this discussion now. I know a good many of you dont like a lot of what I have said, or dont think I am qualified to speak on such matters concerning the USA. Fair enough I suppose. I think that this whole Quran Burning idea will proove to be a terrible mistake, I just hope that noone will be killed as a result. Britains time has been and gone...you are all that is left now..,

County Mike
09-10-2010, 06:54 PM
I rolled up a few pages and I'm smoking it right now.

Bitter aftertaste.

cheachea
09-10-2010, 06:54 PM
Burning a Quran is not evil. If it makes a Muslim act violently that is on the head of the one acting violently PERIOD.

cheachea
09-10-2010, 07:22 PM
How are you standing up for GOD when he commands that you dont render evil for evil? you arent standing up for GOD...you are standing up for what YOU think is right, but going about it in an unGODly fashion.


Tell that to Elijah when he was challenging the prophets of Baal, to David when he challenged Goliath and Samson when he defeated the Philistines .
Everything you say is YOUR OPINION. You do NOT speak for God. BURNING A BOOK IS NOT RENDERING EVIL FOR EVIL NOmatter what you say.

Spiritwalker
09-10-2010, 08:07 PM
I hearby declare September 11th to be:

Kick a muslim day.

Way better than "Kick a Ginger day".

+1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cheachea
09-10-2010, 08:19 PM
Tyburn let's settle this out in the open where everyone can see. I don't want to pm you.

suntereo
09-10-2010, 08:33 PM
ou think they could have picked another day though? when the families of the victims are mourning their loved ones, and all of us mourn the loss of this event, all that is gonna be on the news, in the papers is the people burning th korans ... there will be no mention of the men and women who died and especially those workers who were trying to free people ... great way to remember ..

mourn on the 11th and stand defiantly on the 12th?
the thought that keeps going through my head is the scene in mel gibson's the patriot where he refuses to vote to go to war stating something to the effect that "he is a father and doesnt have the luxury of principals". there are a lot of americans that feel that way but sooner or later we will be backed to far into the corner. Someone brought up the crusades in a negative light but the truth of it was that the muslims didnt simply take jeruselum, the conquered all the way thru spain and france with no indication of slowing down. the crusades were a response to that. A heavy handed response? That's what usually happens when you endure abuse from someone until youve just had it.

that's what i'm afraid may happen with islam.

Bonnie
09-10-2010, 09:34 PM
Cheachea, is that your dog in your sig pic? I always wanted to ask and figured now would be as good a time as any. :laugh:

He (or she) looks like he's smiling. :laugh:

adamt
09-10-2010, 09:41 PM
Tell that to Elijah when he was challenging the prophets of Baal, to David when he challenged Goliath and Samson when he defeated the Philistines .
Everything you say is YOUR OPINION. You do NOT speak for God. BURNING A BOOK IS NOT RENDERING EVIL FOR EVIL NOmatter what you say.


here here!!!!!!!!

I rolled up a few pages and I'm smoking it right now.

Bitter aftertaste.

be careful mike, it might make you want to do weird things to goats

Rev
09-10-2010, 09:58 PM
"there is much more to Christianity than the life and teachings of Jesus".
You have got to be kidding me.
lol
wow
I feel sad when people get doctrine messed up and get confused because they have a problem with certain truths.
I will not be commenting on this thread again because I fear that it is already waaaay down a bad road.

Blade
09-10-2010, 10:35 PM
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/fishman128/raghead.jpg

Sgtchawk
09-10-2010, 11:04 PM
I cant even be sure they ARE my christian Brothers. If they dont listen to GOD they deserve to be punished....but then just because they deserve it, doesnt mean that GOD has to hurt them, he could forgive them.

Hey man, you can't read another's heart, the very thought that you can is an act of Judgement, and therefore the breaking of a commandment...You have to let this anger in your heart go. We are all brothers in Christ, and your continual heaping of ill wishes upon your Christian family is in very poor Christian spirit...

cheachea
09-10-2010, 11:32 PM
Cheachea, is that your dog in your sig pic? I always wanted to ask and figured now would be as good a time as any. :laugh:

He (or she) looks like he's smiling. :laugh:

:laugh: Actually it's not my dog, I saw the picture in a "you laugh you loose" thread on sherdog LOL.

cheachea
09-11-2010, 12:46 AM
Speaking of Sherdog, it's been getting pretty heated over this topic over there also. It's in the war room - http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f54/

Sgtchawk
09-11-2010, 01:51 AM
Lol, what is this sherdog you speak of? Ha ha

rockdawg21
09-11-2010, 01:57 AM
I'm denouncing Islam. Somebody can burn my Quran if they would like.

cheachea
09-11-2010, 02:08 AM
Lol, what is this sherdog you speak of? Ha ha

It's an MMA forum and news page. Check it out but beware of the trolls though.

Sgtchawk
09-11-2010, 02:33 AM
If only there was some way to get rid of the trolls when they become troublesome...

Chuck
09-11-2010, 02:37 AM
If only there was some way to get rid of the trolls when they become troublesome...

Burn 'em.

adamt
09-11-2010, 02:45 AM
Burn 'em.

the muslims will, they'll behead, stone, burn, poke eyes out, whatever, and then broadcast it on the net, with absolutely no hesitation, and no fear of backlash from us civilized folk, but just don't let them hear of any of us wanting to burn one

Sgtchawk
09-11-2010, 02:52 AM
Or hit 'em with a hammer. That would probably work.

DonnaMaria
09-11-2010, 04:30 AM
the muslims will, they'll behead, stone, burn, poke eyes out, whatever, and then broadcast it on the net, with absolutely no hesitation, and no fear of backlash from us civilized folk, but just don't let them hear of any of us wanting to burn one



The Muslim extremists would do that…..but not all Muslims are extremists……….:unsure-1:

And burning the Quran would insult every Muslim, not just the extremists

AND it wouldn’t do anything to honor the memory of those who died on 9-11

And why would we do anything to possibly further jeopardize our military brothers and sisters. Even if the possibility is remote. Why chance it? Just to prove that we are against terrorism? Aren’t we already doing that?

Most of the people who want to burn the Quran want to do it to show that they won’t stand for terrorism, but they are civilians……..

they aren’t the ones who will likely be in harms way if there is retaliation for the burnings…………

NateR
09-11-2010, 08:04 AM
Personally, I would never burn a Quran (didn't it used to be called "Koran"?); but only because I would have to actually buy a copy of that book in order to burn it and I don't want a single penny, that GOD has entrusted me with, going into some Muslim publisher's pocket.

However, I'm not going to pass judgement on Americans who choose to do so. In the Bible, the Israelites were REQUIRED to destroy the false gods and religious artifacts of the nations that they wiped out. In fact, they were even REQUIRED to exterminate every religious leader and every man, woman and child who didn't renounce those false religions. So, with that in mind, burning a Quran seems a pretty trivial thing to get upset about. This vehement objection to it just seems to be more of the same politically-correct nonsense that has effectively castrated the Christian Church in America.

Anyways, this falls under freedom of speech and free expression and we are only 9 years out from 9/11; so if some Americans feel that burning a Quran will help them work through some of their own sorrow, anger and frustration, then so be it. I'm not going to call their faith into question because of it and the Muslims, moderate or extremist, get no sympathy from me on a day like today.

As far as the safety of our troops overseas is concerned, then publicly protesting the War on Terror is MUCH more damaging to the welfare of our soldiers serving overseas. Because not only does that embolden our enemies by showing them that we are weak and divided; but it effectively destroys the morale of those very same troops that we claim to support. So I would call the faith of a "Christian" war protester into question long before I questioned the faith of a Christian who chooses to burn a Quran.

cheachea
09-11-2010, 10:19 AM
NateR Bro your're awesome seriously Dude. I was waiting for you to come into this topic and lay the smack down LOL. :)

TexasRN
09-11-2010, 10:31 AM
Lol, what is this sherdog you speak of? Ha ha


:laugh::laugh::laugh:



~Amy

Neezar
09-11-2010, 12:15 PM
If only there was some way to get rid of the trolls when they become troublesome...

I wonder if they have tried moderators. :biggrin-1:

Sgtchawk
09-11-2010, 02:58 PM
I'm sure they have a moderator or two over there. Its probably a lot like pushing a boulder up a hill everyday, only to wake up and find that its at the bottom of the hill in morning.

DonnaMaria
09-11-2010, 04:57 PM
I don't want to do anything that might make life harder for the troops.

Period.

If they were the ones calling for the burning, then I would be behind it.

But to my knowledge, they aren't. ............

Jonlion
09-11-2010, 08:55 PM
Colossians 3:12-17

"Put on then as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness and patience, bearing with one another, and if one has compliant against another, forgiving eachother as the Lord as forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love which binds everyhting together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of christ rule in your hearts to which indeed you were called in one body. Let the word of christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing Psalms and hyms and spiritual songs with thankfulnbess in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the father through him"


What I would ask from this is that if we all greatly desire men of Islam to become Christians then how are they best approached - we are commanded to Love Thy Neighbour - and through that, patience and love and admonishment where appropriate we can bring those to Christ. If you percieve this to be floppish and wimpish then you are mislead as this is a much harder route to follow.

Before people mention - Jesus flipping the tables over (justly) the context is that they are in his father house. So if someone preaches Koran in your church - then throw them out! But just to outlandishly burn is folly and in my view cowardly.

Colossians 3:22
Slaves obey in everything those who are your earthly masters not by way of eye service, as people pleasers but with Sincerity of heart

When the President of your country asks you not to do this, when the General of the US Army says don't do this - I challenge you to look at scripture and access how you should act on this. It is a very very tough question - I am froma blue collar family and my generations of working class people suffered tyranny and I wholly support there rioting against it. However the Bible is really challenging me on this recently. It aint easy I acknowledge that.

But to go back to the OT - the Lord gave his people to the Bablyonians to be ruled and how are they commanded to act. They are to live set apart from those pagans but to work within that communityto raise it up.

I heard an amazing sermon on this but I have let you guys down by not having the scripture to show my point - i will get this. However it clearly guides us in how we should act.

I find all the talk of Freedom as a load of bull - none of us our free - we are either slaves to sin or slaves to Christ. Christianity is not about being in power - it has not time for ruling of governments or dominating the world - most christians will experiance persecution, suffering and it is a challenge to persevere - we only need to read 1st Peter for this to play out.

cheachea
09-11-2010, 09:28 PM
Jonlion I understand every word you are saying Dude. Paul speaking by The Holy Spirit also siad to Hate Evil and cling to what is good. The people wanting to burn Qurans are not sinning, they are not breaking the law, and they are not hurting people. If an Islamic terrorist decides to attack our troops because some Americans burned a Quran that is on there own head PERIOD. They don't have the Holy Spirit and they were going to do it anyway even if we didn't burn any Qurans. Not everyone in this world is Christian with Christian logic. Our country and leaders are a strange mix of people with different ideas so we can't expect them to live by the Bible. Islam will never stop Jonlion. We should obey the laws of the land so if it was illegal to burn a Quran than I would say don't do it, but it's not illegal so I don't have a problem with it. The Quran is a demonic book of lies so there is nothing wrong with burning it. It's the same as burning a book of Morman.

Play The Man
09-11-2010, 09:35 PM
I think a distinction needs to be made between Al-Qaeda terrorists and the general Muslim population of places like Iraq and Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations will keep attacking us, no matter what we do or say, unless we become a devout Muslim country. They will commit attacks whether a Koran is burned, or not. However, currently our Armed Forces are engaged in a counterinsurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan. Our military must rely on tips from Muslim citizens to find buried IEDs, weapons caches, and terrorist compounds. If the general Muslim population of these countries feel disrespected, these tips will dry up. The society of Iraq and Afghanistan can be divided into the following ways: 1) Hardcore terrorists or terrorist sympathizers who are actively plotting against our military 2) People who sympathize with many of the goals of the terrorists but are not actively involved in helping them (whether because of laziness, fear, lack of means, lack of motivation 3) The Sheep - these people will follow whichever way the wind blows. If the Taliban is in charge, they will support the Taliban. If the U.S. is in charge, they will support the U.S. 4) People sympathetic to the U.S. but not actively helping us because of fear of being attacked by terrorists 5) People who actively help the U.S. by reporting the location of IEDs, weapons caches, terrorists, etc.

The goal of our counterinsurgency is to get as many people in category number 5. We do this by building schools, medical clinics, etc. We do this by showing respect to their religion and customs. We do this by trying to wipe out the Taliban and protect the general citizenry. While we can't turn everyone into a 5, we can turn #1s into #2s and #2s into #3s.

Burning a Koran will likely not precipitate an Al-Qaeda attack. If they had the means to hit us, they likely would have done it already. However, burning the Koran could have a devastating effect on our counterinsurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan. It will turn #2s into #1s.

J.B.
09-11-2010, 11:12 PM
The Quran is a demonic book of lies so there is nothing wrong with burning it.

This vehement objection to it just seems to be more of the same politically-correct nonsense that has effectively castrated the Christian Church in America.

Nobody is arguing that the Quran is a book of lies, and nobody is saying it's wrong to want to see it destroyed. Also, nobody is saying that these people CAN'T burn Qurans.

The point is that it accomplishes nothing and has the potential to bring much more bad than good. It has nothing to do with being PC, at least from my perspective, it's just simple logic.

cheachea
09-11-2010, 11:21 PM
So I guess it's not a question of right or wrong but a question of is it worth it. The sad thing is that it's only going to get worse.

J.B.
09-11-2010, 11:23 PM
So I guess it's not a question of right or wrong but a question of is it worth it. The sad thing is that it's only going to get worse.

Would it get better if we burned them? :unsure:

There are lots of things we can do to stop the situation with radical Muslims from getting worse, at least in this country.

cheachea
09-11-2010, 11:24 PM
That's the thing though, it's going to get worse regardless.

J.B.
09-11-2010, 11:32 PM
That's the thing though, it's going to get worse regardless.

So why add fuel to the fire? (no pun intended)

That's also a pretty negative attitude considering we outnumber them by almost a billion people. I just don't see what burning the Quran accomplishes besides insulting them and creating more pissed off radicals. The pastor said he wanted to expose the radical side of Islam, well he didn't need to do that. Anybody with a working brain knows there is a very radical side to Islam. There are much more constructive ways to fight this battle, like educating the children, protesting, getting the right leadership in office, etc....

Jonlion
09-12-2010, 12:07 AM
As an aside I also blame the media. I don't want to disrespect this pastor but "Burn a Koran" day on a van etc all seems very crass. However if the media treated this the way they should which is to let this crazy pastor burn the Koran - no one reports it, no broadcasts it and then no harm done.

The fact the media report this to the world and provokes a reaction against the West, America and Christianity - which in itself has exploded what should be a footnote in the local newspaper.

cheachea
09-12-2010, 12:08 AM
J.B. we have to defend ourselves and that means not backing down by letting these radicals control our daily lives. We have the freedom to burn Qurans. By us even caring what they think about us burning the Quran that shows that they have won by making us change our way of living. If we back down then they have won. Cowards will be thrown into the lake of fire (I'm not saying that people who disagree are cowards I'm just saying we can't be cowards.) We can't back down from them. THE POSITIVE THING THAT IS GAINED FROM BURNING THE QURAN IN THIS SITUATION IS THAT YOU ARE BEING DEFIANT TO EVIL and not letting radicals control your ideals and FREEDOM. It's about Principle .