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View Full Version : The Decline of Josh Koscheck


atomdanger
02-26-2009, 05:12 PM
http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2009/02/25/snowden-the-decline-of-josh-koscheck/


Koscheck has become a victim of the internet, of bad advisers, of high expectations. His path to success seemed obvious-he would and could ground and pound his way to glory. Instead, after facing early criticism from fans and UFC insiders because of his deliberate style, Koscheck made catastrophic changes to his training regiment. He no longer worked on wrestling-at all.

Instead of the most dominant welterweight in the UFC, Koscheck has become an average kickboxer. Itís like Barry Bonds deciding to become a singles hitter, or Peyton Manning taking on the challenge to see if he can play tight end-just to see if he can. Look at Koscheckís fight with Brazilian Paulo Thiago last Saturday in London. He never even considered a takedown, insisting on throwing a succession of loopy punches, each one a swing for the fences. And the reason why was right there in the commentary: Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg were incredibly positive about Koscheckís approach, believing that his decision to eschew wrestling in his training was a positive development. It wasnít and it isnít. Itís time for Josh to make some hard decisions to rescue his career, before he becomes just another fighter. Hereís three ways he can start.

Step One: Train wrestling. Everyday. Hard. Itís smart to learn how to strike and defend strikes. Itís smart to learn how to apply and defend submissions. But, at the end of the day, whether the fans like it or not, wrestling is your bread and butter. Itís what brought you to the dance. Use it. Your hands arenít going to make you a world champion. Youíll be an average fighter, winning some and losing some, just one of the guys in your division. Wrestling gives you the opportunity to be great-just look at Hughes, Fedor, Couture, and a host of others. The best fighters with your skillset use striking to set up their ground and pound attacks. You should be doing the same.


Interesting article, the guy makes some good points.
KOS really should stick to training at what he was good at, I was surprised to hear them say he only trains 20 percent in wrestling.

logrus
02-26-2009, 05:17 PM
http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2009/02/25/snowden-the-decline-of-josh-koscheck/



Interesting article, the guy makes some good points.
KOS really should stick to training at what he was good at, I was surprised to hear them say he only trains 20 percent in wrestling.

He is tryin to become a more complete fighter, can't hate on him for that. I wonder though if that insane knockout he had didn't cloud his judgement that he is a grade A stand up striker.

atomdanger
02-26-2009, 05:20 PM
He is tryin to become a more complete fighter, can't hate on him for that. I wonder though if that insane knockout he had didn't cloud his judgement that he is a grade A stand up striker.

No I don't think the point was that he shouldn't try to be more well rounded,
but I don't think you can just abandon what you're best at.

We'll never see Maia or Galvao not train in BJJ.

lc87
02-26-2009, 05:45 PM
No I don't think the point was that he shouldn't try to be more well rounded,
but I don't think you can just abandon what you're best at.
.

Exactly what I was thinking

VCURamFan
02-26-2009, 05:57 PM
Can I get a mod to come in here & delete this thread? I really don't want Kos stumbling in here & figuring out how to save his career!

atomdanger
02-26-2009, 06:08 PM
Can I get a mod to come in here & delete this thread? I really don't want Kos stumbling in here & figuring out how to save his career!

wtf lol

rearnakedchoke
02-26-2009, 06:09 PM
"GSP outwrestle me??? No, I outwresltle GSP"

LOL ... he recently lost to two guys with the word Thiago in their name ... not that bad ...

VCURamFan
02-26-2009, 06:15 PM
"GSP outwrestle me??? No, I outwresltle GSP"

LOL ... he recently lost to two guys with the word Thiago in their name ... not that bad ...This just in:

Kos has signed to fight Thiago Silva in what could be a road to redemption for either fighter!

Spiritwalker
02-26-2009, 06:17 PM
"GSP outwrestle me??? No, I outwresltle GSP"

LOL ... he recently lost to two guys with the word Thiago in their name ... not that bad ...


no.. get it right...


referring to GSP....

"HE is gonna outwrestle ME (eyes get big)?"

Apparently.. the answer way "Yes".

Tyburn
02-26-2009, 06:28 PM
http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2009/02/25/snowden-the-decline-of-josh-koscheck/



Interesting article, the guy makes some good points.
KOS really should stick to training at what he was good at, I was surprised to hear them say he only trains 20 percent in wrestling.
So the author says he's "A victim of the internet" then goes on to tell him how to do his job.

Has everyone forgotten the stunning performance verses Thiago Alves.

I dont like his character...but I do feel He's having a particularly bad reaction with the internet and media...and I think its unfair. :sad:

Max
02-26-2009, 06:54 PM
I think Kos had the right game plan in his last fight. Kos felt he had a bigger advantage standing than on the ground. Up until the one punch Kos was winning the fight.

Josh
02-26-2009, 07:43 PM
I think Kos had the right game plan in his last fight. Kos felt he had a bigger advantage standing than on the ground. Up until the one punch Kos was winning the fight.
Same here. He was winning easily. Why would he take down a BJJ BB?

atomdanger
02-26-2009, 09:25 PM
Same here. He was winning easily. Why would he take down a BJJ BB?

MMA isn't BJJ, a very good wrestler has just as much advantage as a BJJ BB.

and I am saying that as a BJJ guy.

*shrug*

bj44
02-26-2009, 10:04 PM
MMA isn't BJJ, a very good wrestler has just as much advantage as a BJJ BB.

and I am saying that as a BJJ guy.

*shrug*
yeah but kos had the obviousl standup advantage. Why play into your opppnents strengths when you have an obvious advantage on the feet. Kos isnt dumb what did he do when he fought chris lytle last year? He took hm down because lytle is dangerous on the feet. Its not like kos thinks he Anderson Silva and can outstrike everyone. In this fight i feel he had the right gameplan he just got caught.

Jonlion
02-26-2009, 10:49 PM
Same here. He was winning easily. Why would he take down a BJJ BB?

Exactly what i was thinking!

Although, there are times when they were fighting, that it so obvious it was just stand up, that Josh could of made a pass at taking hi down, do a double leg, slam him, get right back up again.

That way Thiago would have been less sure what was happening and not made that sweet uppercut.

Josh was detroying him hand up, but he became to obvious and got caught. I think 9/10 he wins the fight but i think he should still use his wrestling more.

atomdanger
02-26-2009, 11:27 PM
yeah but kos had the obviousl standup advantage. Why play into your opppnents strengths when you have an obvious advantage on the feet. Kos isnt dumb what did he do when he fought chris lytle last year? He took hm down because lytle is dangerous on the feet. Its not like kos thinks he Anderson Silva and can outstrike everyone. In this fight i feel he had the right gameplan he just got caught.

What makes you say that? How would KOS know that coming in?
He was winning the striking, but he wasn't hurting Thiago.

*shrug*
Just seems like KOS assumed he would be the better striker,
was cocky and got KOed.

atomdanger
02-26-2009, 11:28 PM
Josh was detroying him hand up, but he became to obvious and got caught. I think 9/10 he wins the fight but i think he should still use his wrestling more.

lol come on

He wasn't destroying him.
AA destroyed Ben Rothwell standing, KOS wasn't destroying.

que
02-27-2009, 01:02 AM
so he gets knocked out once and all the sudden it's "the decline of josh koscheck"? that is the dumbest thing i've heard in a while

he is still an elite 170 pounder. besides his last loss he has looked good. even when he lost to thiago alves he looked good and showed tons of heart.

atomdanger
02-27-2009, 01:46 AM
so he gets knocked out once and all the sudden it's "the decline of josh koscheck"? that is the dumbest thing i've heard in a while

he is still an elite 170 pounder. besides his last loss he has looked good. even when he lost to thiago alves he looked good and showed tons of heart.

You didn't read the article did you?
Poor title choice, I agree, but I think the writer was trying to more touch on the fact that in his opinion with some training changes KOS could stand a shot at the WW title.

Spiritwalker
02-27-2009, 01:49 AM
...but I do feel He's having a particularly bad reaction with the internet and media...and I think its unfair. :sad:


It's only because he brings it on himself.

He seemed to be growing up by leaps and bounds with his last win..

But it does not appear to be what we will see in the future.. The worst part is that Koz has ALOT of talent!

Jonlion
02-27-2009, 09:13 AM
lol come on

He wasn't destroying him.
AA destroyed Ben Rothwell standing, KOS wasn't destroying.

Yeah fair enough, it wasn't a destruction but Josh was looking good, he had him rocked a couple of times. I just thought it was going to be a matter of time.

But thats where i think he got caught for not mixing it up.

GroundNPound
02-27-2009, 02:30 PM
yeah but kos had the obviousl standup advantage. Why play into your opppnents strengths when you have an obvious advantage on the feet. Kos isnt dumb what did he do when he fought chris lytle last year? He took hm down because lytle is dangerous on the feet. Its not like kos thinks he Anderson Silva and can outstrike everyone. In this fight i feel he had the right gameplan he just got caught.


I agree.

I think it was smart to concentrate standup in training camp. Kos can out wrestle most guys even when not fine tuning his wrestling. I don't think that played any part in this fight. It's not like he got taken down and subbed. I'm sure if he ever fights GSP again he will work his wrestling a ton.

So, in this case, I don't think it mattered that he didn't go to his "strength" of wrestling. Why even mess around on the ground with a good BJJ guy when you can knock him out? Of course Kos got caught, but it was the right game plan.

lc87
03-01-2009, 06:00 AM
I just read on mmaweekly that kos vs chris wilson at 98