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View Full Version : They're building a mosque at ground zero....


atomdanger
07-17-2010, 06:37 PM
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/islamic-supremacist-mega-mosque-at-ground-zero-faces-its-only-nyc-hurdle-tomorrow.html
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/07/cnn-ground-zero-mosque-debate-pamela-geller-vs-muslim-american-society.html
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/14/new.york.ground.zero.mosque/index.html?video=true&hpt=T2
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/13/dozens-speak-planned-mosque-near-ground-zero-nyc-hearing-landmark-status/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100715/tv_nm/us_mosque

What do you guys think???
Should they? Shouldn't they?
Also... Thoughts on NBC and CBS refusing to cover the story?

http://www.lookingattheleft.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/MG_0200.jpg

http://www.lookingattheleft.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/MG_01553.jpg

http://www.lookingattheleft.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/MG_0119.jpg

NateR
07-17-2010, 07:28 PM
I can't think of a greater insult to the victims of 9/11 than this.

flo
07-17-2010, 10:54 PM
Exactly. I guess the RoP needs some sensitivity training.

I thought the sign about the synagogue in Mecca was right on the money.

flo
07-17-2010, 10:59 PM
Thanks for all the informative links, atom.

Rev
07-18-2010, 01:50 AM
I really need to stay out of the politics section of this forum.:punch::mad0233:

Llamafighter
07-18-2010, 02:49 AM
There are mosques all over this city. there are two in my neighborhood. I don't think building a mosque down near ground zero means anything. The Taliban struck on 9/11 not the Muslim religion.

J.B.
07-18-2010, 03:15 AM
What I found interesting is that they won't reveal where they are getting their funding to turn the building into a Mosque.

We shouldn't be forced to debate if it is okay for it to be there or not. If the people behind this had any sense of decency they would build it somewhere else.

Neezar
07-18-2010, 03:44 AM
What I found interesting is that they won't reveal where they are getting their funding to turn the building into a Mosque.

We shouldn't be forced to debate if it is okay for it to be there or not. If the people behind this had any sense of decency they would build it somewhere else.

But the point IS in the location, I think.



Conversion of places of worship
Main article: Conversion of non-Muslim places of worship into mosques

According to early Muslim historians (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Muslim_historians), towns that surrendered without resistance and made treaties with the Muslims gave the Muslims permission to take their churches (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Church_(building)) and synagogues (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Synagogue), One of the earliest examples of these kinds of conversions was in Damascus (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Damascus), Syria (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Syria), where in 705 Umayyad (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Umayyad) caliph (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Caliph) Al-Walid I (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Al-Walid_I) bought the church of St. John (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/John_the_Baptist) from the Christians and had it rebuilt as a mosque in exchange for building a number of new churches for the Christians in Damascus (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Damascus), overall, Abd al-Malik (Al-Waleed's father) is said to have transformed 10 churches in Damascus into mosques.

The process of turning churches into mosques was especially intensive in the villages where most of the inhabitants converted to Islam. The Abbasid (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Abbasid) caliph al-Ma'mun (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Al-Ma%27mun) turned many churches into mosques. Ottoman Turks (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Ottoman_Turks) converted nearly all churches, monasteries, and chapels in Constantinople (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Constantinople), including the famous Hagia Sophia (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Hagia_Sophia), immediately after capturing the city in 1453 (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople) into mosques.

In some instances mosques have been established on the places of Jewish or Christian sanctuaries associated with Biblical (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Bible) personalities who were also recognized by Islam.[8] (http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/#cite_note-Masdjid1-7)

Mosques have also been converted for use by other religions, notably in southern Spain, following the conquest of the Moors (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Moors) in 1492.[9] (http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/#cite_note-8) The most prominent of them is the Great Mosque of Cordoba (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Mezquita). The Iberian Peninsula (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Iberian_Peninsula), Southeast Europe (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/Europe), and India (http://www.matt-hughes.com/wiki/India) are other regions in the world where such instances occurred once no longer under Muslim rule.

flo
07-18-2010, 05:47 AM
Great point, Neezar, and very interesting excerpt. Symbolism is extremely important in the Muslim world.

flo
07-18-2010, 06:10 AM
Pat Condell has a take on this and, as usual, he nails it. It's worth the watch, please take a look. Towards the end he ties in the important point that Neezar posted with this project. You may feel differently about this, Mark, after learning the symbolism behind the name, dates, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4

And an update, with the usual smoke and mirrors...a spokesman for the project has announced that the name has been changed from Cordoba House to Park 51 (so the dhimmis will be reassured, naturally).

flo
07-18-2010, 06:11 AM
Haven't seen PTM here in a while, he should be in on this discussion...

atomdanger
07-18-2010, 11:15 AM
Pat Condell has a take on this and, as usual, he nails it. It's worth the watch, please take a look. Towards the end he ties in the important point that Neezar posted with this project. You may feel differently about this, Mark, after learning the symbolism behind the name, dates, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4

And an update, with the usual smoke and mirrors...a spokesman for the project has announced that the name has been changed from Cordoba House to Park 51 (so the dhimmis will be reassured, naturally).

Interesting video.

Mac
07-18-2010, 01:09 PM
Sickening.

adamt
07-18-2010, 01:53 PM
i hate to say it cause it prolly won't be taken to well on here, but I am happy to see all this crap going on. It is sickening to see the immoral fess pool that is our nation now. I am excited to see it get bad enough people might come around to a good revival or awakening then God can kick some a$$, and hopefully along the way he might use me to shoot the he!! out of some pagan philistines. or should i say shoot some pagan philistines into he!!.

I'm looking for a war worth fighting and the tea party is just the start.

Tyburn
07-19-2010, 09:37 AM
I heard they were rebuilding a smaller version of the world trade centre...called Freedom Tower

I also heard they wont be building anything for a bit because of what they uncovered benieth the world trade centre...having cleared the site and started to dig for foundations they discovered what was left of an old ship wreck, its thought to have been accidently put there along with lots of seabed type rubble when they tried to change the course of the river near by a century or two ago.

alot of its still intact. :ninja:

Miss Foxy
07-19-2010, 03:43 PM
I really need to stay out of the politics section of this forum.:punch::mad0233:

Same here cause im about to get crazy with it!!!:muttering::fighting0008::fighting0023:

CAVEMAN
07-19-2010, 04:35 PM
As Chuck can testify, I posted something about this on Facebook and man......did I open a can of worms! People came out of the wood work calling me a hate monger and having an agenda of hatred for Muslims because I thought it was distastful and wrong!

adamt
07-19-2010, 07:57 PM
As Chuck can testify, I posted something about this on Facebook and man......did I open a can of worms! People came out of the wood work calling me a hate monger and having an agenda of hatred for Muslims because I thought it was distastful and wrong!


i hate muslims...............as much as they hate me, what's wrong with that

they hated me first

Miss Foxy
07-19-2010, 08:28 PM
i hate muslims...............as much as they hate me, what's wrong with that

they hated me first

+1!!!!

Vizion
07-20-2010, 02:01 AM
i hate muslims...............as much as they hate me, what's wrong with that

they hated me first
Hate the sin, not the sinner. They are deceived by Satan. Pray for them.

Chuck
07-20-2010, 03:16 AM
i hate muslims...............as much as they hate me, what's wrong with that

they hated me first
Ummm............ definitely not this! Hate leads to the Dark Side! :ninja:

Hate the sin, not the sinner. They are deceived by Satan. Pray for them.
THIS!!!!!!!!! :happydancing::happydancing:

adamt
07-20-2010, 08:33 AM
that might be what i am supposed to do, but it's hard :)


was hitler hatable?

can i hate satan?



i guess i don't hate muslims.....but i would like to love them like david loved goliath

Play The Man
07-20-2010, 09:24 AM
Pat Condell has a take on this and, as usual, he nails it. It's worth the watch, please take a look. Towards the end he ties in the important point that Neezar posted with this project. You may feel differently about this, Mark, after learning the symbolism behind the name, dates, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4

And an update, with the usual smoke and mirrors...a spokesman for the project has announced that the name has been changed from Cordoba House to Park 51 (so the dhimmis will be reassured, naturally).

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-two-faces-of-the-ground-zero-mosque/?singlepage=true

Depending on whether Islamists address Americans or fellow Muslims, the same exact words they use often relay diametrically opposed meanings. One example: when Americans hear Muslims evoke “justice,” the former envision Western-style justice, whereas Muslims naturally have Sharia law justice in mind.

Islamists obviously use this to their advantage: when addressing the West, Osama bin Laden bemoans the “justice of our causes, particularly Palestine”; yet, when addressing Muslims, his notion of justice far transcends territorial disputes and becomes unintelligible from a Western perspective: “Battle, animosity, and hatred — directed from the Muslim to the infidel — is the foundation of our religion. And we consider this a justice and kindness to them. The West perceives fighting, enmity, and hatred all for the sake of the religion [i.e., Islam] as unjust, hostile, and evil. But who’s understanding is right — our notions of justice and righteousness, or theirs?” (Al Qaeda Reader, p. 43).

Of course, that Osama bin Laden — slayer of 3,000 Americans and avowed enemy to the rest — exhibits two faces, one to Americans another to Muslims, is not surprising. Yet the reader may well be surprised to discover that the controversial Cordoba Initiative, which plans on manifesting itself as the largest American mosque, situated atop Ground Zero — that is, atop the carnage caused by none other than bin Laden — also has two faces, conveying one thing to Americans, quite another to Muslims.

The very name of the initiative itself, “Cordoba,” offers different connotations to different people: In the West, the Andalusian city of Cordoba is regularly touted as the model of medieval Muslim progressiveness and tolerance for Christians and Jews. To many Americans, then, the choice to name the mosque “Cordoba” is suggestive of rapprochement and interfaith dialogue; atop the rubble of 9/11, it implies “healing” — a new beginning between Muslims and Americans. The Cordoba Initiative’s mission statement certainly suggests as much:

Cordoba Initiative aims to achieve a tipping point in Muslim-West relations within the next decade, bringing back the atmosphere of interfaith tolerance and respect that we have longed for since Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together in harmony and prosperity eight hundred years ago.

Oddly enough, the so-called “tolerant” era of Cordoba supposedly occurred during the caliphate of ‘Abd al-Rahman III (912-961) — well over a thousand years ago. “Eight hundred years ago,” i.e., around 1200, the fanatical Almohids — ideological predecessors of al-Qaeda — were ravaging Cordoba, where “Christians and Jews were given the choice of conversion, exile, or death.” A Freudian slip on the part of the Cordoba Initiative?

In fact, the true history of Cordoba, not to mention the whole of Andalusia, is far less inspiring than what Western academics portray: the Christian city was conquered by Muslims around 711, its inhabitants slaughtered or enslaved. The original mosque of Cordoba — the namesake of the Ground Zero mosque — was built atop, and partly from the materials of, a Christian church. Modern day Muslims are well aware of all this. Such is the true — and ominous — legacy of Cordoba.

More pointedly, throughout Islam’s history, whenever a region was conquered, one of the first signs of consolidation was/is the erection of a mosque atop the sacred sites of the vanquished: the pagan Ka‘ba temple in Arabia was converted into Islam’s holiest site, the mosque of Mecca; the al-Aqsa Mosque, Islam’s third holiest site, was built atop Solomon’s Temple in Jerusalem; the Umayyad Mosque was built atop the Church of St. John the Baptist; and the Hagia Sophia was converted into a mosque upon the conquest of Constantinople.

(In 2006, when the Pope visited the Hagia Sophia in Turkey, there was a risk that the “Islamic world [would go] into paroxysms of fury” if there was “any perception that the pope is trying to re-appropriate a Christian center that fell to Muslims” — this even as Muslims today seek to build a mosque on the rubble of the Twin Towers.)

Such double standards lead us back to the issue of double meanings. As for the literal wording of the mosque project, “Cordoba House,” it too offers opposing paradigms of thought: to Westerners, the English word “house” suggests shelter, intimacy — coziness, even; in classical Arabic, however, the word for house, dar, can also mean “region,” and is regularly used in a divisive sense, as in Dar al-Harb, i.e., “infidel region of war.” Thus, to Muslim ears, while “Cordoba” offers allusions of conquest and domination, dar is further suggestive of division and separation (from infidels, a la the doctrine of al-Wala’ wa al-Bara’, for instance).

Words aside, even the mosque’s scheduled opening date — 9/11/2011 — has two aspects: to Americans, opening the mosque on 9/11 is to proclaim a new beginning with the Muslim world on the ten-year anniversary of the worst terror strikes on American soil; however, it just so happens that Koranic verse 9:111 is one of the loftiest calls for suicidal jihad and is probably the reason al-Qaeda originally chose that date to strike. So while Americans may think the mosque’s planned 9/11 opening is meant to commemorate that date, it may well be a cryptic evocation for all out war. A “new beginning,” indeed, but of a very different sort, namely, the propagation of more Islamists and jihadists — mosques are, after all, epicenters of radicalization — on, of all places, soil sacred to America.

Some final thoughts on the history of Cordoba and the ominous parallels it bodes for America: though many Christian regions were conquered by Islam prior to Cordoba, its conquest signified the first time a truly “Western” region was conquered by the sword of Islam. It was also used as a base to launch further attacks into the heart of Europe (until decisively beaten at the Battle of Tours), just as, perhaps, the largest mosque in America will be used as a base to subvert the rest of the United States. And the sacking of the original Cordoba was facilitated by an insider traitor — a warning to the U.S., which seems to have no end of traitors and willing lackeys.

Such, then, is the dual significance of the Cordoba Initiative: What appears to many Americans as a gesture of peace and interfaith dialogue, is to Muslims reminiscent of Islamist conquest and consolidation; mosques, which Americans assume are Muslim counterparts to Christian churches — that is, places where altruistic Muslims congregate and pray for world peace and harmony — are symbols of domination and centers of radicalization; the numbers of the opening date, 9/11/11, appear to Americans as commemorative of a new beginning, whereas the Koranic significance of those numbers is suicidal jihad. Of course, the two faces of the Cordoba House should not be surprising considering that the man behind the initiative, Feisal Abdul Rauf, also has two faces.

Going along with the historic analogy, there is one bit of good news: As opposed to the vast majority of onetime Western/Christian nations annexed by Islam, Spain did ultimately manage to overthrow the Islamic yoke. Though only after some 700 years of occupation.

Neezar
07-20-2010, 02:04 PM
The very name of the initiative itself, “Cordoba,” offers different connotations to different people: In the West, the Andalusian city of Cordoba is regularly touted as the model of medieval Muslim progressiveness and tolerance for Christians and Jews. To many Americans, then, the choice to name the mosque “Cordoba” is suggestive of rapprochement and interfaith dialogue; atop the rubble of 9/11, it implies “healing” — a new beginning between Muslims and Americans. The Cordoba Initiative’s mission statement certainly suggests as much:

Cordoba Initiative aims to achieve a tipping point in Muslim-West relations within the next decade, bringing back the atmosphere of interfaith tolerance and respect that we have longed for since Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together in harmony and prosperity eight hundred years ago.

Oddly enough, the so-called “tolerant” era of Cordoba supposedly occurred during the caliphate of ‘Abd al-Rahman III (912-961) — well over a thousand years ago. “Eight hundred years ago,” i.e., around 1200, the fanatical Almohids — ideological predecessors of al-Qaeda — were ravaging Cordoba, where “Christians and Jews were given the choice of conversion, exile, or death.” A Freudian slip on the part of the Cordoba Initiative?




This is kinda scary. :unsure-1:

Miss Foxy
07-20-2010, 03:55 PM
Hate the sin, not the sinner. They are deceived by Satan. Pray for them.

True I think what he meant and definitely what I mean is I hate what they do in the name of their false religion.. I think with me I used the word hate very loosely so I strongly dislike what they do and have done, and what they constantly plan to do to Christians around the globe...:wink:

flo
07-20-2010, 04:27 PM
PTM, I'm not surprised one bit by the deceptions and importance of what the location of this mosque means to its followers.

I need to check pajamas media on a regular basis, I'm nearly always in agreement with their commentary.

adamt
07-20-2010, 05:12 PM
True I think what he meant and definitely what I mean is I hate what they do in the name of their false religion.. I think with me I used the word hate very loosely so I strongly dislike what they do and have done, and what they constantly plan to do to Christians around the globe...:wink:

yup