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View Full Version : VOTE: Do you support AZ tough new laws on immigration?


rockdawg21
06-03-2010, 12:44 PM
Incredible. 235,000+ votes so far with a whopping 95.8% saying "yes".

http://world-news.newsvine.com/_question/2010/05/12/4274124-do-you-support-arizonas-tough-new-law-on-illegal-immigration

County Mike
06-03-2010, 12:53 PM
100% YES for me.

VCURamFan
06-03-2010, 04:49 PM
Yes & Amen.

NateR
06-03-2010, 04:56 PM
Well, it's set up so you can only vote once, so it must record the IP address. Which makes the actual results even better. :laugh:

As of right now:

252,959 votes in favor of Arizona's new immigration law

10,824 votes opposed to it

Haha, on MSNBC's website nonetheless, that's like the biggest left-wing news organization out there! :happydancing:

Anyways, there wasn't an option for "Hell, yes!" so I just voted "Yes.":)

EDIT: In the time it took me to type up this post, over 500 more people votes in favor of Arizona's new immigration law and only 20 more people voted against it. :laugh:

J.B.
06-03-2010, 04:58 PM
I support it, but it's not tough enough to actually help the problem.

NateR
06-03-2010, 05:00 PM
I support it, but it's not tough enough to actually help the problem.

I would agree there, but I think it exists as more of a reprimand of the federal government for dereliction of duty when it comes to securing our borders.

J.B.
06-03-2010, 05:08 PM
I would agree there, but I think it exists as more of a reprimand of the federal government for dereliction of duty when it comes to securing our borders.

If it actually forces them to do something, then I will be overjoyed. It just seems like the same old song and dance for years. I know Obama is sending National Guard to the border now, I'm just not sure in what capacity. Will they actually be able to actively police the area? Why can't we just finish building a new secure structure in place of that run down old "fence" we have now? Are we actually going to address the issue of people overstaying the VISA our government hands to them? Those are the questions at the forefront of my mind at this point in the discussion.

Miss Foxy
06-03-2010, 05:24 PM
I am on the fence about whether I support this or not. I think something needs to be done, but I don't feel completely 100% on this one. However I don't disagree.. I guess I am just being a typical gal and can't make up my mind. :huh:

flo
06-03-2010, 05:42 PM
Well, it's set up so you can only vote once, so it must record the IP address. Which makes the actual results even better. :laugh:


Haha, on MSNBC's website nonetheless, that's like the biggest left-wing news organization out there! :happydancing:





Exactly what I was going to say; ironic, isn't it? Bet they won't be reporting THESE results anytime soon...

Twinsmama
06-03-2010, 06:03 PM
I voted yes.

What are some of the reasons why people would vote no? I mean whether you agree w/ them or not.

Chris F
06-03-2010, 06:41 PM
It is easy to pass a law it is another thing to enforce it. JB is right it is a long way from solving the problem. Best thing to do is put troops at the border with shoot to kill oreders and they will stay home and try to enter legally.

Crisco
06-04-2010, 01:39 AM
How exactly would one make the law tougher JB?

Spiritwalker
06-04-2010, 03:42 AM
100% Agree...

How to make the law tougher?? change it to allow for "racial profiling for 2 years...

Crisco
06-05-2010, 12:10 AM
100% Agree...

How to make the law tougher?? change it to allow for "racial profiling for 2 years...

That would be extremely Un-American dude.

As conservatives, I would think that most of us would be highly against anything involving racial profiling or enabling the government with unlawful rights.

J.B.
06-05-2010, 12:17 AM
That would be extremely Un-American dude.

As conservatives, I would think that most of us would be highly against anything involving racial profiling or enabling the government with unlawful rights.

Actually, I am quite for racial profiling to a certain extent.

People need to get over it and understand that some stereotypes exist for a reason. Does that mean I think a person should be pulled over and harassed because they are black in a white neighborhood, or because they look Hispanic while driving though Phoenix? Not at all.

Specific problems call for specific measures, this is true in all facets of life.

rockdawg21
06-05-2010, 12:40 AM
Actually, I am quite for racial profiling to a certain extent.

People need to get over it and understand that some stereotypes exist for a reason. Does that mean I think a person should be pulled over and harassed because they are black in a white neighborhood, or because they look Hispanic while driving though Phoenix? Not at all.

Specific problems call for specific measures, this is true in all facets of life.
LOL, I agree to an extent as well. Stereotypes don't necessarily make up a majority of a group, but they are based on fact whether people want to admit it or not.

For example, which group of people are committing terrorist acts and making terrorist threats?

Crisco
06-05-2010, 01:24 AM
But as we so often talk about it's not so much what the law does it is what it indirectly does... By giving the governmen the right to decide people should be paid extra attention because of race then your opening a can of worms that can easily spiral out of control.

J.B.
06-05-2010, 01:29 AM
But as we so often talk about it's not so much what the law does it is what it indirectly does... By giving the governmen the right to decide people should be paid extra attention because of race then your opening a can of worms that can easily spiral out of control.

It's the line we have to walk.

philips4
06-05-2010, 07:41 AM
100% yes all the way

Crisco
06-05-2010, 01:50 PM
It's the line we have to walk.

Then your all guilty of the same crap the dems are pushing.

Freedom is freedom for American citizens I don't care what race you are if you have that distinction.

Does this law violate or cause racial profiling? No.

Pushing it further is not something a conservative should ever consider.

J.B.
06-06-2010, 02:29 AM
How exactly would one make the law tougher JB?

We can make the law tougher by starting a line of buses that run from Phoenix to Nogales. That would be a good start.

Then your all guilty of the same crap the dems are pushing.

Freedom is freedom for American citizens I don't care what race you are if you have that distinction.

Does this law violate or cause racial profiling? No.

Pushing it further is not something a conservative should ever consider.

You are missing the point entirely. What do you think the TSA was doing right after 9/11, and even still today? You are acting as if when I say it's not strong enough that means I think we need to start grabbing every person with brown skin and start shaking them down, and that is not the case. You say "Freedom is Freedom for American Citizens", well guess what? The problem is these people are NOT American citizens, and about 90% of them sneak into the country through THIS STATE. Then they make their way to other states, or end up here in the Valley, and a lot of them are committing violent crimes.

I'm sorry if people don't like it, but the fact is that there is massive problem here in Arizona. When a cop stops somebody in central Phoenix who looks like they are of Hispanic decent and they barely speak a lick of English, there is a good chance that person is here illegally. If they are citizens, they will have a driver's license or state ID. If they are LEGAL immigrants, they will have a green card or other documentation. It's not that hard, and it's hardly harassment for those people to be asked to show such documentation.

Bonnie
06-06-2010, 03:01 PM
Well, it's set up so you can only vote once, so it must record the IP address. Which makes the actual results even better. :laugh:

As of right now:

252,959 votes in favor of Arizona's new immigration law

10,824 votes opposed to it

Haha, on MSNBC's website nonetheless, that's like the biggest left-wing news organization out there! :happydancing:

Anyways, there wasn't an option for "Hell, yes!" so I just voted "Yes.":)



That's a big "hell to the yeah" I support it!!! :laugh:

Tyburn
06-06-2010, 03:50 PM
I'd need to see the exact legislation to tell you....from what I've heard of it, it sounds pretty reasonable. :)

Tyburn
06-06-2010, 03:54 PM
and it's hardly harassment for those people to be asked to show such documentation.

I was once asked by a police woman to show my identification :ashamed:

I didnt point out the wording on the front page, because that would have been rude :laugh:

But then. I was at least in the US legally...I hadnt sneaked across a desert to get it :laugh:

Tyburn
06-06-2010, 03:56 PM
Wording on the front page of Daves passport...

"Her Britannic Majestys Secretary of State requests and requires in The Name of Her Majesty, all those whom it may concern, to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance and to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as may be necessary"

:ninja:

NateR
06-06-2010, 04:04 PM
Then your all guilty of the same crap the dems are pushing.

Freedom is freedom for American citizens I don't care what race you are if you have that distinction.

Does this law violate or cause racial profiling? No.

Pushing it further is not something a conservative should ever consider.

Sounds to me like you really have no idea what the situation down in Arizona is and are just forming an opinion based on the lies reported to you by the media. Have you ever even visiting Arizona, Texas or New Mexico? Do you have any clue at all what's going on down there?

The whole point here is to protect the rights of American citizens to live safely in their own country. Asking to see proof of citizenship is no more a violation of someone's civil rights than asking to see a driver's license when a police officer pulls you over.

Besides, considering the litigiousness of America today, you can rest assured that no police officer will stop anyone unless they are 99% positive that they are here illegally.

The only racism that exists in this situation comes from those who are trying to turn this into a race issue.

J.B.
06-06-2010, 04:44 PM
I was once asked by a police woman to show my identification :ashamed:

I didnt point out the wording on the front page, because that would have been rude :laugh:

But then. I was at least in the US legally...I hadnt sneaked across a desert to get it :laugh:

:laugh:

I remember that you were pretty miffed about that at the time!

Tyburn
06-06-2010, 05:11 PM
:laugh:

I remember that you were pretty miffed about that at the time!

:laugh: Yes...but at least I did have a passport...and it wasnt a random hit...I mean a curtain twitcher had been on the phone to her...it wasnt like she was walking passed and just decided to pick on me :rolleyes:

To refresh your memory about this incident

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t12ZBMTg0Qo (The Curtain Twiticher of Bettendorf) :laugh:

J.B.
06-06-2010, 05:44 PM
:laugh: Yes...but at least I did have a passport...and it wasnt a random hit...I mean a curtain twitcher had been on the phone to her...it wasnt like she was walking passed and just decided to pick on me :rolleyes:

To refresh your memory about this incident

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t12ZBMTg0Qo (The Curtain Twiticher of Bettendorf) :laugh:

That was in Bettendorf Iowa too, which is a far cry from Phoenix Arizona. :laugh:

In smaller towns you are a lot more likely to have people call the cops for little things like that than in big cities. Like for instance, when you were in Chicago, that would be a lot less likely to happen, but at the same time the police presence in the streets is like 20 times greater.

To comment on what you say in the video, you are right that the police are LOOKING for crimes, and they need to be vigilant in doing so because of the amount of serious and violent crimes that are committed in this country. It's also why the police here are so heavily armed compared to what you described in England. However, that doesn't mean that the police need to always be perceived as a method of intimidation. Most cops are actually great people who go out of their way to help those in need, while also maintaining law and order.

Such is the case here in Arizona. Hispanics argue that these stricter laws are going to make them feel intimidated and be harassed by police, even if they are legal citizens. However, the fact is that if they actually are legal citizens, they have nothing to be concerned about at all. Anybody can already be pulled over while driving or stopped in the streets and asked for identification, so the only thing that is really changing is that if you are NOT here legally, you are going to jail.

Tyburn
06-06-2010, 06:38 PM
That was in Bettendorf Iowa too, which is a far cry from Phoenix Arizona. :laugh:

In smaller towns you are a lot more likely to have people call the cops for little things like that than in big cities. Like for instance, when you were in Chicago, that would be a lot less likely to happen, but at the same time the police presence in the streets is like 20 times greater.

To comment on what you say in the video, you are right that the police are LOOKING for crimes, and they need to be vigilant in doing so because of the amount of serious and violent crimes that are committed in this country. It's also why the police here are so heavily armed compared to what you described in England. However, that doesn't mean that the police need to always be perceived as a method of intimidation. Most cops are actually great people who go out of their way to help those in need, while also maintaining law and order.

Such is the case here in Arizona. Hispanics argue that these stricter laws are going to make them feel intimidated and be harassed by police, even if they are legal citizens. However, the fact is that if they actually are legal citizens, they have nothing to be concerned about at all. Anybody can already be pulled over while driving or stopped in the streets and asked for identification, so the only thing that is really changing is that if you are NOT here legally, you are going to jail.

Well I cant speak about Chicago because I wasnt looking for Police then, so I wasnt really aware of them. If there were any around I phased them out. I was kinda in a very different place in Chicago because I actually love that city...I have from the moment I laid my eyes on it in 2007...I was flying over Lake Michigan and I saw the skyline...and I decided I wanted to one day walk along that skyline by the water. Two years later I did :w00t:

But I get your point, and it would certainly hold true of Saint Loius Missouri, and Washington District of Colombia.

I think in England the Police patrol to keep the peace, I think in the United States the police patrol to enforce the law...those are actually two different perspectives. The former is there to protect the public, the latter is there to stop criminals. I'm sure there is cross over...but the two forces come from different paradigmns

Your right about being pulled over...I mean, I was stopped because some curtain twiticher complained. But before she let me go, she started to check me out over her radio :unsure-1: She did just make sure I wasnt like wanted for any other crimes or anything before letting me go. I dont resent her for checking...I dont mind that, I think it was sensible, she might aswell...I didnt like being stopped in the first place.

But I'll tell you something... I felt quite angry afterwards for a bit, but I do recognise she was only doing her job, and she wasnt mean to me at all...and although I did then keep a weary eye out for the police and avoid them, I would have felt FAR more intimidated if it had been a Male Policeman that stopped me. I cant really explain why. I mean I would actually have no problem going back to Bettendorf...but had that been a male policeman, I would probably never consider returning to the Quad Cities. Perhaps thats totally sexist...I just couldnt stop staring at her gun :unsure::laugh:

J.B.
06-06-2010, 07:38 PM
Well I cant speak about Chicago because I wasnt looking for Police then, so I wasnt really aware of them. If there were any around I phased them out. I was kinda in a very different place in Chicago because I actually love that city...I have from the moment I laid my eyes on it in 2007...I was flying over Lake Michigan and I saw the skyline...and I decided I wanted to one day walk along that skyline by the water. Two years later I did :w00t:

But I get your point, and it would certainly hold true of Saint Loius Missouri, and Washington District of Colombia.

I think in England the Police patrol to keep the peace, I think in the United States the police patrol to enforce the law...those are actually two different perspectives. The former is there to protect the public, the latter is there to stop criminals. I'm sure there is cross over...but the two forces come from different paradigmns

Your right about being pulled over...I mean, I was stopped because some curtain twiticher complained. But before she let me go, she started to check me out over her radio :unsure-1: She did just make sure I wasnt like wanted for any other crimes or anything before letting me go. I dont resent her for checking...I dont mind that, I think it was sensible, she might aswell...I didnt like being stopped in the first place.

But I'll tell you something... I felt quite angry afterwards for a bit, but I do recognise she was only doing her job, and she wasnt mean to me at all...and although I did then keep a weary eye out for the police and avoid them, I would have felt FAR more intimidated if it had been a Male Policeman that stopped me. I cant really explain why. I mean I would actually have no problem going back to Bettendorf...but had that been a male policeman, I would probably never consider returning to the Quad Cities. Perhaps thats totally sexist...I just couldnt stop staring at her gun :unsure::laugh:

I understand where your coming from with that point of view, but I guess that when you live here your whole life it's just something you get used too. :laugh:

I suppose you also don't see guns as much in England. When I see cops I don't even think twice about the fact they are armed, it's just known and accepted. Here in Arizona it's even a lot different than in other states like Illinois because our gun laws are not nearly as strict as other states. I see people carrying holstered guns, even in places you wouldn't expect, like the supermarket, and that is perfectly legal. In fact, another big law is changing here in Arizona next month, but it's gotten far less national attention than our immigration law, and that is a new law allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons without a permit.

Tyburn
06-06-2010, 07:59 PM
I understand where your coming from with that point of view, but I guess that when you live here your whole life it's just something you get used too. :laugh:

I suppose you also don't see guns as much in England. When I see cops I don't even think twice about the fact they are armed, it's just known and accepted. Here in Arizona it's even a lot different than in other states like Illinois because our gun laws are not nearly as strict as other states. I see people carrying holstered guns, even in places you wouldn't expect, like the supermarket, and that is perfectly legal. In fact, another big law is changing here in Arizona next month, but it's gotten far less national attention than our immigration law, and that is a new law allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons without a permit.

Well living in London, I probably have seen more armed police then the majority, but even then...I can only really count twice. The first time was when I was sitting in a chinese takeaway waiting for my order...and two police officers came in...and one of them was armed. that is to say he had a small pea shooter thing on a belt round his waist. They were only there to collect an order :laugh:

The other time was quite different. It was after the London Bombings of 2005...I lived quite close to Waterloo Train Station, and the larger trainstations were protected visably by The British Transport Police for a month or so afterwards. These guys were armed with what looked like submachine guns :unsure: I'm not a gun expert...but they were rifle in size and they were carried on straps over the shoulders.

Other then that I've bearly seen a firearm in my life. I once met Mac and had a drive in his car, he swears there were big guns lying on the back seat, but I never saw any :ninja::laugh:

We have some of the toughest gun laws in the world...and they are going to get a shake up in the wake of last week...one of the probably few people to legally own a handgun, with a permit, decided he would go on a three hour 20 odd mile killing spree. He first killed the people who he felt had wronged him, with rifle and shotgun...then he just drove around aimlessly (if you pardon the pun) in the lake district (he was a taxi driver) and killed people by random in several quiet and senior majority people. My sister knows of one young guy shot and killed whilst strimming his hedge...and some of my extended family live in one of the villages through which the gunman drove his spree (they were inside their house and were fine) I think between 12-15 were killed, and a douzen or so in hospital. something like that.

J.B.
06-06-2010, 08:04 PM
Other then that I've bearly seen a firearm in my life. I once met Mac and had a drive in his car, he swears there were big guns lying on the back seat, but I never saw any :ninja::laugh:


I would tend to believe Mac on that one! :laugh:

flo
06-06-2010, 08:46 PM
Wording on the front page of Daves passport...

"Her Britannic Majestys Secretary of State requests and requires in The Name of Her Majesty, all those whom it may concern, to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance and to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as may be necessary"

:ninja:

Yes, but you're in OUR neck of the woods now, Bubba...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/floranista/51.jpg

:laugh:

flo
06-06-2010, 08:47 PM
Sounds to me like you really have no idea what the situation down in Arizona is and are just forming an opinion based on the lies reported to you by the media. Have you ever even visiting Arizona, Texas or New Mexico? Do you have any clue at all what's going on down there?

The whole point here is to protect the rights of American citizens to live safely in their own country. Asking to see proof of citizenship is no more a violation of someone's civil rights than asking to see a driver's license when a police officer pulls you over.
Besides, considering the litigiousness of America today, you can rest assured that no police officer will stop anyone unless they are 99% positive that they are here illegally.

The only racism that exists in this situation comes from those who are trying to turn this into a race issue.

Well said, Nate.

Tyburn
06-06-2010, 10:34 PM
Yes, but you're in OUR neck of the woods now, Bubba...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/floranista/51.jpg

:laugh:

I dont wanna be racist...but she was a black woman :laugh:

J.B.
06-06-2010, 10:47 PM
I dont wanna be racist...but she was a black woman :laugh:

http://www.comedycentric.com/files/2008/05/reno-911-s5-williams.jpg

Was it Officer Williams? :laugh:

Crisco
06-07-2010, 12:06 AM
Sounds to me like you really have no idea what the situation down in Arizona is and are just forming an opinion based on the lies reported to you by the media. Have you ever even visiting Arizona, Texas or New Mexico? Do you have any clue at all what's going on down there?

The whole point here is to protect the rights of American citizens to live safely in their own country. Asking to see proof of citizenship is no more a violation of someone's civil rights than asking to see a driver's license when a police officer pulls you over.

Besides, considering the litigiousness of America today, you can rest assured that no police officer will stop anyone unless they are 99% positive that they are here illegally.

The only racism that exists in this situation comes from those who are trying to turn this into a race issue.

I believe you did not understand what I was saying.

I agree with the law as is. There is nothing wrong with checking someones citizen ship.

I was against taking further measure with the law as going any further would border a whole new animal.

I know your looking to call me ignorant on this but I'm really not I've read the bill from start to finish and I know what the situation is. Just because there is a crisis does not mean we suspend what the country stands for.

AGAIN I REPEAT no problem with the law as is however trying to take it to another level is bad mojo.

J.B.
06-07-2010, 12:18 AM
I believe you did not understand what I was saying.

I agree with the law as is. There is nothing wrong with checking someones citizen ship.

I was against taking further measure with the law as going any further would border a whole new animal.

I know your looking to call me ignorant on this but I'm really not I've read the bill from start to finish and I know what the situation is. Just because there is a crisis does not mean we suspend what the country stands for.

AGAIN I REPEAT no problem with the law as is however trying to take it to another level is bad mojo.

Could you define what "other level" you are referring to?

J.B.
06-07-2010, 12:27 AM
Crisco, I guess I actually wasn't completely clear in this thread, because I've posted my views on this top is a few different threads now, and there is an important reason why I am actually miffed with the law that I forgot to add.

By the federal government (I.C.E.) not doing their job in the deportation of those who are found to be in this country illegally, and the securing of the borders, the state of Arizona is going to be shelling out more tax dollars to house these illegal aliens in our jail systems because they are now technically criminals for being in the state illegally. This state is bleeding money as it is. Now, I obviously agree with checking people's papers and arresting those who are here illegally, but what good is it if we are not ultimately deporting them back to their country? That's why I say it's not tough enough. Not because I think we need to shake down every person with dark skin or a thick accent without just cause to stop them in the first place.

Spiritwalker
06-14-2010, 07:19 PM
Took a walk to the corner store
Just to buy a loaf of bread and a box of s`mores
Up pulled a guy in a yellow van
Shiny gold badge flashing in his hand

(Chong:)
He said, alright all you mojados down here
I want you all to hit the floor
I got one thing to ask you and nothing more
So answer in English, if you can
Where were ya born, man

(Cheech:)
Huh? Where was I born?

(Chong:)
That`s right, I said
Where were ya born?

(Cheech:)
Hey, are you one of those dudes who do horoscopes, man
Hey, I`m a Cancer with a bad moon rising

(Chong:)
Look here el fago, watch my lips
Where were ya born?

(Cheech:)
I was BORN IN EAST L.A.
Man, I was BORN IN EAST L.A.

(Chong:)
Oh yeah, you were BORN IN EAST L.A.
Let`s see your green card

(Cheech:)
Huh? Green card?
I`m from East LA

(Chong:)
Alright, then who`s President of the United States

(Cheech:)
Oh, that`s easy, man
That guy that used to be on Death Valley Days, John Wayne

(Chong:)
Alright, let`s go, come on

(Cheech:)
Next thing I know, I`m in a foreign land
People talkin so fast, I couldn`t understand
There was nobody there to lend a helping hand
I was cold, it was dark where is a burger stand

I want to go back to East LA
I wish I was back in East LA
I don`t belong here in downtown T.J.
Cause I was born in East LA, ole

I crawled under barbed wire, swam across a stream
Rode in six different trucks packed like a sardine
Walked all day in the burning sun
Now I know what it`s like to be born to run

Up ahead was the promised land
Shining like a star just beyond my hand
All I could see was a golden door
I looked up, a sign said five billion sold

And I was back in East LA
Yes, I was back in East LA
You know I`m never gonna stray
Cause I was born in East LA, oh LA

(adlibs with I'm a low rider rocker in East LA, oh LA)

EAST LA!!!

CAVEMAN
06-14-2010, 07:49 PM
I fully agree with Arizona's law!

rockdawg21
06-15-2010, 03:17 AM
6/14/2010 - Results

Total of 1,252,053 votes

Yes: 1,201,823 (96%) votes
No: 50,230 votes (4%) votes

Talk about overwhelming favor!